BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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Butler,
In answer to your post on another thread. It is Bassa to blame for the low terms and conditions on Mixed Fleet and they are also to blame for some crew being less than welcoming, to people that are just wanting to be cabin crew for BA and have no choice but to join Mixed Fleet.
If more crew had wanted the union to negotiate instead of striking over crewing levels, none of us would be in this mess.
You and your Bassa cohorts are to blame, no one else.
In answer to your post on another thread. It is Bassa to blame for the low terms and conditions on Mixed Fleet and they are also to blame for some crew being less than welcoming, to people that are just wanting to be cabin crew for BA and have no choice but to join Mixed Fleet.
If more crew had wanted the union to negotiate instead of striking over crewing levels, none of us would be in this mess.
You and your Bassa cohorts are to blame, no one else.
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Well said Betty Girl 
I'm sure Butler / DH must be receiving brown paper envelopes from WW because the BASSA leadership have done more in the last year to forward a BA's strategy than he could have ever dreamed of.
To clarify this statement is personal speculation, nothing else.
PS: I would like to see MF get better T&Cs and a higher basic.
I'm sure Butler / DH must be receiving brown paper envelopes from WW because the BASSA leadership have done more in the last year to forward a BA's strategy than he could have ever dreamed of.
To clarify this statement is personal speculation, nothing else.
PS: I would like to see MF get better T&Cs and a higher basic.
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Advertising Standards Authority upholds complaints against BASSA press advert
It would seem that the ASA have investigated some of the claims made by BASSA in A national press ad, by the trade union,it was headed "What do you think of when you think British Airways?". The ad made various claims about the BA cabin crew dispute, including "Our members want you to always think positively about BA ... But three times in the past two years they have voted overwhelmingly to take industrial action at the airline ... Unite cabin crew members at BA are mainly female, working mums ... The vast majority will dedicate 25 years or more service to the airline ... Two years ago, a battle over standards at the airline began; it was never about money ... As many times as BA force us to reballot our members, we will do so".
A consultant to the airline industry challenged whether the claims were misleading and could be substantiated:
The ASA have up held part of the complaint :
ASA Adjudication on Unite The Union Ltd - Advertising Standards Authority
No doubt BASSA will attempt a positive spin on the ASA investigation.....
A consultant to the airline industry challenged whether the claims were misleading and could be substantiated:
The ASA have up held part of the complaint :
ASA Adjudication on Unite The Union Ltd - Advertising Standards Authority
No doubt BASSA will attempt a positive spin on the ASA investigation.....
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Pilot to sue BASSA & Certain Members
Heard today form a very reliable source, that a pilot who has been subject to alleged bullying, harrassment on the BASSA forum is about to launch a High Court action for substantial damages having politely asked on multiple occasions to have the posts deleted as in his opinion they were allegedly libellous and defamatory. The posts allegedly remain.
Allegedly, a certain infamous ex BASSA rep will be named and an injunction will be sought to reveal the names of numerous anonymous (pseudonym) posters who will also be sued.
As the costs to lauch such an action (without damages factored in) will possibly run above £75,000, with a QC involved, I hope that an amicable solution is found as the financial consequences for the respondants/defendants could be disastrous if they do not have deep pockets to defend such a case and if they lose......
I understand that the claimaint will be seeking punitive damages in the order of 'hundreds of thousands' of pounds - Ouchh !
Allegedly, a certain infamous ex BASSA rep will be named and an injunction will be sought to reveal the names of numerous anonymous (pseudonym) posters who will also be sued.
As the costs to lauch such an action (without damages factored in) will possibly run above £75,000, with a QC involved, I hope that an amicable solution is found as the financial consequences for the respondants/defendants could be disastrous if they do not have deep pockets to defend such a case and if they lose......
I understand that the claimaint will be seeking punitive damages in the order of 'hundreds of thousands' of pounds - Ouchh !
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Bill has just sent all cabin crew an email saying the following:-
This week I have held further talks with some of your BASSA representatives and this has been a positive step in our search for a way forward.
We plan to meet again next week and I will keep you updated as progress is made.
Good news I feel. At work I can sense a very positive feeling among all cabin crew. Lets hope this is the beginning of the end!
This week I have held further talks with some of your BASSA representatives and this has been a positive step in our search for a way forward.
We plan to meet again next week and I will keep you updated as progress is made.
Good news I feel. At work I can sense a very positive feeling among all cabin crew. Lets hope this is the beginning of the end!
Heard today form a very reliable source, that a pilot who has been subject to alleged bullying, harrassment on the BASSA forum is about to launch a High Court action for substantial damages having politely asked on multiple occasions to have the posts deleted as in his opinion they were allegedly libellous and defamatory. The posts allegedly remain.
Allegedly, a certain infamous ex BASSA rep will be named and an injunction will be sought to reveal the names of numerous anonymous (pseudonym) posters who will also be sued.
As the costs to lauch such an action (without damages factored in) will possibly run above £75,000, with a QC involved, I hope that an amicable solution is found as the financial consequences for the respondants/defendants could be disastrous if they do not have deep pockets to defend such a case and if they lose......
I understand that the claimaint will be seeking punitive damages in the order of 'hundreds of thousands' of pounds - Ouchh !
Allegedly, a certain infamous ex BASSA rep will be named and an injunction will be sought to reveal the names of numerous anonymous (pseudonym) posters who will also be sued.
As the costs to lauch such an action (without damages factored in) will possibly run above £75,000, with a QC involved, I hope that an amicable solution is found as the financial consequences for the respondants/defendants could be disastrous if they do not have deep pockets to defend such a case and if they lose......
I understand that the claimaint will be seeking punitive damages in the order of 'hundreds of thousands' of pounds - Ouchh !
After Cabin Crew 89 were formed BASSA/TGWU published a libelous newsletter that made false accusations against one of the founders and the wife of another.
It went the whole hog in the infamous Court No 13 (Elton John, Sonia Sutcliffe etc) and BASSA/TGWU were found to have been maliciously libelous to both plantiffs.
The court awarded £130,000 pounds in damages and the costs against them were mega.
They also settled a further libel against the CC89 founders before it got to court.
Good luck to the pilot and maybe he could dig up the details of that case to add some background.
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Bill Francis has just sent a message to all crew to say that he has met reps from Bassa and that 'talks' have gone well, and that they would meet again next week.
Interesting to see what if anything comes out of this. Can't see him giving up much. Would love to know if DH is involved.
Interesting to see what if anything comes out of this. Can't see him giving up much. Would love to know if DH is involved.
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Juan that ESS was last week on 26th April 2011.
The talks BF mentions are now taking place as we speak.
Looks like manpower issues now as we are going to start rostering another PSR to longhaul flights.
The talks BF mentions are now taking place as we speak.
Looks like manpower issues now as we are going to start rostering another PSR to longhaul flights.
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The reason that they are going to reinstate one Purser to the 747 is because at the moment they have too many Pursers.
This will be sorted out when part time is offered and it will then revert back to the lower number.
There has been a silly situation recently where Pursers were working down and main crew were operating in the old Purser position and this just utilises the Pursers while we have too many!
Seems to make sense.!
This will be sorted out when part time is offered and it will then revert back to the lower number.
There has been a silly situation recently where Pursers were working down and main crew were operating in the old Purser position and this just utilises the Pursers while we have too many!
Seems to make sense.!
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Betty just to clarify this for you. We already have hundreds of PSRS now working down as Main Crew. They have agreed to do this till November 01st 2011. Today's announcement is in addition. We now have flights going out with all PSR crews with so many working down particularly on long range which people have requested. The PSR'S seniority achieving them the trip as Main crew as opposed to Main Crew achieving their trips in their respective grade.
The part time lists are almost exhausted. Only 20% of people are accepting them as people have a fear that work will transfer to MF.
The manpower situation is starting to look very bad with main crew sat at home with no work and PSRs working down as Main Crew. Each route that moves across to MF until they sort it out creates a worse situation with the Company now paying people full salaries to sit at home.
Banked leave which is leave on full pay is also on offer.
The part time lists are almost exhausted. Only 20% of people are accepting them as people have a fear that work will transfer to MF.
The manpower situation is starting to look very bad with main crew sat at home with no work and PSRs working down as Main Crew. Each route that moves across to MF until they sort it out creates a worse situation with the Company now paying people full salaries to sit at home.
Banked leave which is leave on full pay is also on offer.
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Well I was told that this was a temporary measure because the situation of Pursers sitting at home on Availables was worse than for main crew and it was a silly situation calling Pursers out as main crew, on some flights: and having a main crew member do the job that used to be done by a Purser on other flights.
Yes, you are right that this is a totally separate thing to all those Pursers already working down as main crew. God knows what will happen when they come back on line as Pursers!!
I hope that they do get the numbers right because it is silly, as you say, having crew sitting at home and then recruiting more and more M/F crew. It surely negates the saving being made by them.
M/F are themselves over-crewed too. They are sending out Prague flights with seven crew on and calling them training flights. I was told this by a Dispatcher, who was himself, trying to understand where the savings are in putting on three more crew than if operated by a E/F crew.
This is also happening on M/F loghaul flights, a CSM told me that he almost always has 14 crew on a 777.
I am more than happy for M/F to have extra crew while learning the routines but it is not fair if their 'customer survey' scores are compared to ours, if we only have 3 or 4 crew on an airbus compared to 6 or 7 of them!!
Lets hope these are just teething problems because, lets face it, BA often gets the crewing levels wrong!! We are either under-crewed or over-crewed!! We just seem to be very over-crewed at the moment!!! Which is very silly as we are supposed to be saving money!!
P.S. Well just been told that these Pursers will still be working in a main crew position, so I apologise for getting that bit mixed up. At least you will be getting rostered a trip instead of yet more available but it all does sound very silly!!Can't quite understand what the point of taking the Purser off each flight and then putting more Pursers back on but have them working as main crew. Bonkers!!
Yes, you are right that this is a totally separate thing to all those Pursers already working down as main crew. God knows what will happen when they come back on line as Pursers!!
I hope that they do get the numbers right because it is silly, as you say, having crew sitting at home and then recruiting more and more M/F crew. It surely negates the saving being made by them.
M/F are themselves over-crewed too. They are sending out Prague flights with seven crew on and calling them training flights. I was told this by a Dispatcher, who was himself, trying to understand where the savings are in putting on three more crew than if operated by a E/F crew.
This is also happening on M/F loghaul flights, a CSM told me that he almost always has 14 crew on a 777.
I am more than happy for M/F to have extra crew while learning the routines but it is not fair if their 'customer survey' scores are compared to ours, if we only have 3 or 4 crew on an airbus compared to 6 or 7 of them!!
Lets hope these are just teething problems because, lets face it, BA often gets the crewing levels wrong!! We are either under-crewed or over-crewed!! We just seem to be very over-crewed at the moment!!! Which is very silly as we are supposed to be saving money!!
P.S. Well just been told that these Pursers will still be working in a main crew position, so I apologise for getting that bit mixed up. At least you will be getting rostered a trip instead of yet more available but it all does sound very silly!!Can't quite understand what the point of taking the Purser off each flight and then putting more Pursers back on but have them working as main crew. Bonkers!!
Last edited by Betty girl; 4th May 2011 at 19:13. Reason: change of words because what I wrote was not clear. Swapped WW to read M/F longhaul
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PLP,
Yes that is true, some but not all are VCCs.
Whether they be VCCs or normal M/F crew, they are still going out with more crew on and that's not a good saving.
M/F are specifically being over-crewed on flights because there are now too many of them, partly due to the Tripoli and the Haneda being cancelled.
I just want to make it clear that I really don't mind them having extra crew while they are learning the ropes but I will be annoyed if BA start to compare passenger survey scores if it is an uneven playing field!!
Yes that is true, some but not all are VCCs.
Whether they be VCCs or normal M/F crew, they are still going out with more crew on and that's not a good saving.
M/F are specifically being over-crewed on flights because there are now too many of them, partly due to the Tripoli and the Haneda being cancelled.
I just want to make it clear that I really don't mind them having extra crew while they are learning the ropes but I will be annoyed if BA start to compare passenger survey scores if it is an uneven playing field!!
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Betty, I appreciate and can understand your concerns but am sure that they won't be making those comparisons.
Unfortunate than TIP and HND have been suspended and that they both happen to be MF routes!
Unfortunate than TIP and HND have been suspended and that they both happen to be MF routes!
This is also happening on WW flights, a CSM told me that he almost always has 14 crew on a 777.
Unfortunate than TIP and HND have been suspended and that they both happen to be MF routes!
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Sorry Abbey road, I did not mean it was happening on WW flights operated by WW crew. I should have put Mixed Fleet longhaul flights. It is only M/F flights that are going out with extra crew.
I hope you are right 64k but I think it is already happening!
I hope you are right 64k but I think it is already happening!
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As someone who has trusted BA to mean what they say, I shall be very disappointed if they take on too many crew and if they transfer routes in an unfair way.
It really is important that crew can trust BA and believe what they say.
I have spent the last 18 months telling crew that BA is not lying to them and will be fair because they promised to be fair.
I just pray that they wont let me down.
It is very hard for me and others, as crew who has been a loyal and dedicated to BA for years and years, to see other crew almost wearing a different uniform to us ; and yes, the uniform looks very different when worn with a hat. Other than the hat, I wear my uniform exactly like M/F ie. with my jacket done up but I feel like a second class citizen now and it is very sad.
I doubt that many of you will understand but I know that the cabin crew that post on here will know exactly what I mean.
It really is important that crew can trust BA and believe what they say.
I have spent the last 18 months telling crew that BA is not lying to them and will be fair because they promised to be fair.
I just pray that they wont let me down.
It is very hard for me and others, as crew who has been a loyal and dedicated to BA for years and years, to see other crew almost wearing a different uniform to us ; and yes, the uniform looks very different when worn with a hat. Other than the hat, I wear my uniform exactly like M/F ie. with my jacket done up but I feel like a second class citizen now and it is very sad.
I doubt that many of you will understand but I know that the cabin crew that post on here will know exactly what I mean.
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Betty Girl
The strategy for the last few years has been to acquire as many non-striking crew as possible, be they VCCs or MF recruits. It stands to reason that in order to run a 100% operation whilst some crew are on strike, we need to be over established. Also, if there is indeed only a 20% uptake in part-time amongst those that volunteered for it, how can anyone fairly expect that BA should have known that would happen? Yes being over crewed costs BA money.
Who knows, this could be a good thing? BA 'could' be gearing up to slacken off MF rosters - just as everyone has been hoping they would?
The strategy for the last few years has been to acquire as many non-striking crew as possible, be they VCCs or MF recruits. It stands to reason that in order to run a 100% operation whilst some crew are on strike, we need to be over established. Also, if there is indeed only a 20% uptake in part-time amongst those that volunteered for it, how can anyone fairly expect that BA should have known that would happen? Yes being over crewed costs BA money.
Who knows, this could be a good thing? BA 'could' be gearing up to slacken off MF rosters - just as everyone has been hoping they would?
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Betty -
I honestly don't believe that they will. If BA wanted to 'screw' you, they would have done it before the dispute went on for so long.
(Views above are my own, not those of my employer)
I just pray that they wont let me down.
(Views above are my own, not those of my employer)