BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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So far so good!!
Latest quote from California Girl AKA Lalalady. Interesting use of words as usual.
So far so good eh! Reminds me of that old joke of the guy jumping off the Empire State building. As he past the 77th floor he was heard to be shouting ' So far so good'
I would love to know if KW is actually sitting in the same room as DH and Lalalady. I suspect not. But of course the way its been written is quite clever to the believers. They probably think DH is leading the negotiations with Lenny
BASSA > Latest News
SO FAR SO GOOD
Apr 19th, 2011 by admin
Update from the talks
We can confirm that the first meeting between British Airways and Unite has gone ahead today. Len McCluskey and Keith Williams were in attendance. Len was supported by negotiators from the BASSA cabin crew reps.
That the meeting took place was in itself a positive first step and the significance of this should not be underestimated. Specific details obviously must remain confidential but a framework on how best to move forward with ongoing discussions was agreed and the aim of both parties is to reach a fair and honourable resolution to this long running dispute.
SO FAR SO GOOD
Apr 19th, 2011 by admin
Update from the talks
We can confirm that the first meeting between British Airways and Unite has gone ahead today. Len McCluskey and Keith Williams were in attendance. Len was supported by negotiators from the BASSA cabin crew reps.
That the meeting took place was in itself a positive first step and the significance of this should not be underestimated. Specific details obviously must remain confidential but a framework on how best to move forward with ongoing discussions was agreed and the aim of both parties is to reach a fair and honourable resolution to this long running dispute.
So far so good eh! Reminds me of that old joke of the guy jumping off the Empire State building. As he past the 77th floor he was heard to be shouting ' So far so good'
I would love to know if KW is actually sitting in the same room as DH and Lalalady. I suspect not. But of course the way its been written is quite clever to the believers. They probably think DH is leading the negotiations with Lenny
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Ops Room Junkie,
Succinctly put!
Sadly there is a minority, I state it again, a minority of BASSA crew who feel that they only 'ARE' British Airways as they are the ones providing the service on board. They fail to take into account the army of people working behind the scenes in a bewildering array of positions that get the customer from their first Internet click into the seat where they can 'serve' the product.
I am a big supporter of our Cabin Crew and a review of my previous posts will support this. They provide, on the whole, a great service. Unfortunately they are let down, once again, by the minority who provoke reaction by their interaction or, more precisely, lack of it.
The Company is slowly waking up. BASSA, for all their spin and back slapping have achieved absoloutly nothing apart from managing to get their negotiating back after demanding 'No Negotiation' at one of their whipping meetings. (Yes it's still on You Tube). They have lost their members money, benefits and credibility, nothing more. The original reason for action still stands and will continue to stand. As BASSA are still smarting about this they trot out the usual rhetoric of 'you're next' and 'VCC's will find they haven't got a job to go back to' without realising that the way the company deals with its employees hasn't changed at all. It's just that those employee groups have always dealt sensibly with the company.
After the failure of the first IA and the subsequent apathy applied by the customers to the subsequent British Airways has, finally, loosened the strangle hold that has plagued this company for years. I for one welcome that open armed. I believe all employee groups should be well represented, I just feel that BASSA has never, ever, adequately represented all of its members by pursuing action that preserved the terms of the select few.
For the BASSA supporters I ask only this, what have BASSA achieved over the past two years? What quantifiable, concrete results have BASSA gained? Simply none. The original dispute was about imposition, imposition that was applied a long time after BASSA failed dismally to represent ALL of its members, a long time after ALL the other departments had reached a sensible, pragmatic, adult decision. Why is that Union busting? Why should a FTSE 100 company have to deal with an inadequate branch which can't get itself organised and cannot comprehend the business it resides in?
Unite are now coming to terms with Public sector cuts that we, in the Private sector, have had to live with for the past few years and those in the Civil Service (I was one) are finding it very painful and quite shocking. Unite don't have time for a Branch which hasn't been asked to reduce numbers outside of VR, which hasn't been asked to take a pay cut, which hasn't been asked to do anything except change, slightly, their working pattern. Imposition, not New Fleet/Columbus, impostion is what this is about. BASSA were offered the ability to change/direct/influence New Fleet, they declined, withdrew the facilities agreement and ran off to a corner shouting No Negotiation whilts printing Willie Walsh underpants. How drole.
Where, in all of that, has BASSA won anything?
Nowhere.
Succinctly put!
Sadly there is a minority, I state it again, a minority of BASSA crew who feel that they only 'ARE' British Airways as they are the ones providing the service on board. They fail to take into account the army of people working behind the scenes in a bewildering array of positions that get the customer from their first Internet click into the seat where they can 'serve' the product.
I am a big supporter of our Cabin Crew and a review of my previous posts will support this. They provide, on the whole, a great service. Unfortunately they are let down, once again, by the minority who provoke reaction by their interaction or, more precisely, lack of it.
The Company is slowly waking up. BASSA, for all their spin and back slapping have achieved absoloutly nothing apart from managing to get their negotiating back after demanding 'No Negotiation' at one of their whipping meetings. (Yes it's still on You Tube). They have lost their members money, benefits and credibility, nothing more. The original reason for action still stands and will continue to stand. As BASSA are still smarting about this they trot out the usual rhetoric of 'you're next' and 'VCC's will find they haven't got a job to go back to' without realising that the way the company deals with its employees hasn't changed at all. It's just that those employee groups have always dealt sensibly with the company.
After the failure of the first IA and the subsequent apathy applied by the customers to the subsequent British Airways has, finally, loosened the strangle hold that has plagued this company for years. I for one welcome that open armed. I believe all employee groups should be well represented, I just feel that BASSA has never, ever, adequately represented all of its members by pursuing action that preserved the terms of the select few.
For the BASSA supporters I ask only this, what have BASSA achieved over the past two years? What quantifiable, concrete results have BASSA gained? Simply none. The original dispute was about imposition, imposition that was applied a long time after BASSA failed dismally to represent ALL of its members, a long time after ALL the other departments had reached a sensible, pragmatic, adult decision. Why is that Union busting? Why should a FTSE 100 company have to deal with an inadequate branch which can't get itself organised and cannot comprehend the business it resides in?
Unite are now coming to terms with Public sector cuts that we, in the Private sector, have had to live with for the past few years and those in the Civil Service (I was one) are finding it very painful and quite shocking. Unite don't have time for a Branch which hasn't been asked to reduce numbers outside of VR, which hasn't been asked to take a pay cut, which hasn't been asked to do anything except change, slightly, their working pattern. Imposition, not New Fleet/Columbus, impostion is what this is about. BASSA were offered the ability to change/direct/influence New Fleet, they declined, withdrew the facilities agreement and ran off to a corner shouting No Negotiation whilts printing Willie Walsh underpants. How drole.
Where, in all of that, has BASSA won anything?
Nowhere.
Last edited by Wirbelsturm; 20th Apr 2011 at 17:28. Reason: another typo!
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I don't imagine for one moment DH is allowed anywhere near the meetings - I suspect Unite have reined him in and I doubt he is even in the loop.
Carefully worded update indeed but please do credit cabin crew with intelligence - it is easy to see beyond the spin
Carefully worded update indeed but please do credit cabin crew with intelligence - it is easy to see beyond the spin
Len McCluskey and Keith Williams were in attendance. Len was supported by negotiators from the BASSA cabin crew reps.
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I think some of the posts here demonstrate a worrying form of early Alzheimers
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Well Butler,
That just proves that you have not even read the agreement!!
I am not even going to bother to correct you because all of us that have signed the agreement, know what it says and have actually read it!
That just proves that you have not even read the agreement!!
I am not even going to bother to correct you because all of us that have signed the agreement, know what it says and have actually read it!
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In that case, I am not clear why you would come on here and pretend that those, who signed the agreement, are the most exposed, when you know that we are all, equally exposed to future change.
If Bassa do, by some miracle, achieve a better outcome, you know full well it applies to ALL crew whether they are unionised or not and this has always been the case and is also reiterated in the agreement as well.
Your not posting on the Bassa Forum now where people believe everything you write, you are posting on a forum where some posters have an independent brain!!
If Bassa do, by some miracle, achieve a better outcome, you know full well it applies to ALL crew whether they are unionised or not and this has always been the case and is also reiterated in the agreement as well.
Your not posting on the Bassa Forum now where people believe everything you write, you are posting on a forum where some posters have an independent brain!!
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I.A.T.U. Butler. You really do need to read the Individual Agreement. It was not as many believe a new contract . Quite the opposite. Some of us left BASSA pre December 2010 as we realised that it was time to move on. We then signed upto the Individual Agreement as it is clearly written that in the event of a more favourable deal being secured from negotiations then it will aplly to all crew irrespective of whether you have signed up or not signed upto the individual Agreement. The Individual Agreement actually secured a pay deal, an Annual Top Up should you earn less than the average for your grade and nothing more. It was a no brainer. There are some who have now rejoined BASSA after signing upto the Individual Agreement. Once again it was not a new contract in any shape or form.
There are several thousand of us now waiting to rejoin UNITE when the timing is right and there is new direction. Hopefully several of the respected reps who are in the present discussions will take over as there is respect and great support out here for several of them. 2000+ people all paying £16.38 per month is considerable money to UNITE. Once this is over people will realise that they achieved nothing. This was all about cost savings and the imposition of removing a crew member was the quickest way to make an inroad into this saving. People should be asking questions and looking to UNITE to rebrand. This could have turned out so different.
If the reps had agreed to trial the imposition of removing 'one off' then people would not have lost staff travel, people would not have been suspended and sacked for their words and actions, people would never have lost money for striking, people would never have had pay deducted for going sick, new crew would have joined existing fleets on new contracts and pay scales, VCC's would never have been trained. What a waste of time, emotions and money.
There are several thousand of us now waiting to rejoin UNITE when the timing is right and there is new direction. Hopefully several of the respected reps who are in the present discussions will take over as there is respect and great support out here for several of them. 2000+ people all paying £16.38 per month is considerable money to UNITE. Once this is over people will realise that they achieved nothing. This was all about cost savings and the imposition of removing a crew member was the quickest way to make an inroad into this saving. People should be asking questions and looking to UNITE to rebrand. This could have turned out so different.
If the reps had agreed to trial the imposition of removing 'one off' then people would not have lost staff travel, people would not have been suspended and sacked for their words and actions, people would never have lost money for striking, people would never have had pay deducted for going sick, new crew would have joined existing fleets on new contracts and pay scales, VCC's would never have been trained. What a waste of time, emotions and money.
Last edited by prism; 21st Apr 2011 at 09:25.
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Clearly some people can't read.
I did say I wasn't going to feed the trolls or argue with children anymore.
Gotta go now though, I can hear some infantile whinning in the next room. Sounds like someone needs to be put back on the naughty step....
I did say I wasn't going to feed the trolls or argue with children anymore.
Gotta go now though, I can hear some infantile whinning in the next room. Sounds like someone needs to be put back on the naughty step....
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They have no protection whatsoever, just a promise from Bill Francis. And what if he goes sooner rather than later, which is quite likely considering his association with the way the dispute was run?
for clarity, for those unsure, any letter written by BF would not have any authority if he were not employed by British Airways in an appropriate role with the authority to make any concessions the letter may specify. The authority of the letter comes from British Airways and NOT BF.
So even if he were to leave (and he will at some point) the letter still stands.
What a great loop hole in the law of employing people that would be. Imagine if a company wanted to save money, just find the manager who authorised the last 5 years pay rises and dismiss him. Then claim his agreements with the staff didn't count and take back 5 years of terms and conditions.
Does anybody believe these playground rumours?
What's next? Signing Bills letter will get the bogeyman to chase you, serving hot towels will make your hands fall off, closing the blinds will make you blind.
This is the level of understanding and intelligence we are dealing with.
Back now to explaining the laws of trigonometry to my 8 year old.
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The deal rests with the authority of BF. It is his deal no matter who sanctioned it from above.
The whole point of the offer was to divide and conqueor. You had to leave BASSA to be eligable for the deal and to eschew collective bargaining.
I am glad Betty and prism have made that decision. Who now represents the 900 or so who signed the offer? The PCCC?
You are on your own.
The whole point of the offer was to divide and conqueor. You had to leave BASSA to be eligable for the deal and to eschew collective bargaining.
I am glad Betty and prism have made that decision. Who now represents the 900 or so who signed the offer? The PCCC?
You are on your own.
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I.A.T.U. you are missing the point. Once people signed the Individual Agreement then you were then free to rejoin UNITE. Not on our own at all. BA is our employer and we are with BA.
As a CSD I will work to the Company requirements, to the agreements in place and if I have issues will work them through with my pilots and the DOMS. It is what I have done for the past 14 years as a CSD. No change in actual fact.
It was 2000 by the way who signed the offer I.A.T.U. Alot of people left the union to sign up as it was a no brainer then rejoined. The Individual Agrrement was not BF's offer as he is the representative of the Company. It was BA's Individual Offer and a legal document.
Dont forget bottom line 5800 people voted for iA out of a community of 13500. Use the figures as you will. End of the day you now even if a deal is secured will have to make the decision in your heart and that is whether you are with BA or not.
As a CSD I will work to the Company requirements, to the agreements in place and if I have issues will work them through with my pilots and the DOMS. It is what I have done for the past 14 years as a CSD. No change in actual fact.
It was 2000 by the way who signed the offer I.A.T.U. Alot of people left the union to sign up as it was a no brainer then rejoined. The Individual Agrrement was not BF's offer as he is the representative of the Company. It was BA's Individual Offer and a legal document.
Dont forget bottom line 5800 people voted for iA out of a community of 13500. Use the figures as you will. End of the day you now even if a deal is secured will have to make the decision in your heart and that is whether you are with BA or not.
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Butler,
You can repeat that it's "Bill's Offer" as long as you want. He was merely the head of department authorised to make that offer. He made it under the wider authority granted him by the airline and, as such, the offer is granted by them and not him. Also as such, the offer will not expire with his departure as has been noted above. That you choose to believe the BASSA mantra of "say it often enough and it will be true" speaks volumes for the amount of actual facts you have at hand, as opposed to the cliched suppositions that you endeavour to pass off as truths.
No doubt the offer will be reviewed and changed as time wears on. All offers and all contracts do. That's why the cry from some quarters for financial guarantees for life are so risible. They don't exist (as far as I am aware) in any company in the UK, and before the issue of US style contracts is brought up again - we work to a different legal system, like it or not.
Bear in mind that many of those who left Unite felt alone and unrepresented so your attempt to instil a seed of doubt or fear likely holds no water.
Why is it so few people from the pro-IA side of the camp are capable of presenting a rational and fact-based argument? It's almost invariably a rehash of the same rhetoric.
MrB
You can repeat that it's "Bill's Offer" as long as you want. He was merely the head of department authorised to make that offer. He made it under the wider authority granted him by the airline and, as such, the offer is granted by them and not him. Also as such, the offer will not expire with his departure as has been noted above. That you choose to believe the BASSA mantra of "say it often enough and it will be true" speaks volumes for the amount of actual facts you have at hand, as opposed to the cliched suppositions that you endeavour to pass off as truths.
No doubt the offer will be reviewed and changed as time wears on. All offers and all contracts do. That's why the cry from some quarters for financial guarantees for life are so risible. They don't exist (as far as I am aware) in any company in the UK, and before the issue of US style contracts is brought up again - we work to a different legal system, like it or not.
Bear in mind that many of those who left Unite felt alone and unrepresented so your attempt to instil a seed of doubt or fear likely holds no water.
Why is it so few people from the pro-IA side of the camp are capable of presenting a rational and fact-based argument? It's almost invariably a rehash of the same rhetoric.
MrB
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Butler
You had to leave BASSA to be eligable for the deal and to eschew collective bargaining.
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FGS.
BF has no authority as BF, he only has authority as he is a BA Manager, employed to BA to manage the business and his department. That is why the letter will be on BA headed paper with his title on it. Such agreements go on far after a manager leaves.
If it was a hand written note signed yours lovingly Bill, you may have a point.
It Wasn't and you Don't.
Afterthought:
I wonder how many things DH had put his signature to in the past, he has now gone so lets tear them up!
BF has no authority as BF, he only has authority as he is a BA Manager, employed to BA to manage the business and his department. That is why the letter will be on BA headed paper with his title on it. Such agreements go on far after a manager leaves.
If it was a hand written note signed yours lovingly Bill, you may have a point.
It Wasn't and you Don't.
Afterthought:
I wonder how many things DH had put his signature to in the past, he has now gone so lets tear them up!
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Also what people are going to have to think about is that the results of the talks will probably mean that everyone signs upto the Individual Agreement under a new name as it forms the pay deal for the next 2 years. No way will BA put back the crew member on the aircraft, all the other items make sense for all sides eg a facilities agreement. Staff Travel will be returned with longevity benefits in months and there you have it. MF is now established and will grow as the union wanted it as a stand alone fleet which it has achieved. All of this could have turned out so differently.