BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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Well I hope you are both right.
I sat on the crew bus to the car-park today and listened to a group of Mixed Fleet crew moaning about the way BA roster them.
They were unhappy with all their standby duties but also unhappy about, when they are flying, how they get very little time off.
It seems very sad to me that BA could have got this all so right.
There are thousands of us that did not strike; and it seems strange to me, for BA to let us all down by not keeping to their promises.
One was to transfer work fairly.
Another was to only transfer work over as current fleets shrink and not before.
And yet another one was to pay market rate plus 10% to Mixed Fleet.
They were promises made by BA or have I imagined them!!
I sat on the crew bus to the car-park today and listened to a group of Mixed Fleet crew moaning about the way BA roster them.
They were unhappy with all their standby duties but also unhappy about, when they are flying, how they get very little time off.
It seems very sad to me that BA could have got this all so right.
There are thousands of us that did not strike; and it seems strange to me, for BA to let us all down by not keeping to their promises.
One was to transfer work fairly.
Another was to only transfer work over as current fleets shrink and not before.
And yet another one was to pay market rate plus 10% to Mixed Fleet.
They were promises made by BA or have I imagined them!!
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Betty Girl
You should not have to trust anyone, because that trust is only good as long as the person you trust remains in place (learn't that one before, to my detriment). Contractual obligations are what you need, or the only other protection is the law, which sets minimum standards.
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Juan that ESS was last week on 26th April 2011.
The talks BF mentions are now taking place as we speak.
Looks like manpower issues now as we are going to start rostering another PSR to longhaul flights.
The talks BF mentions are now taking place as we speak.
Looks like manpower issues now as we are going to start rostering another PSR to longhaul flights.
Prism - my apologies. You are 100% correct
Bettygirl
Well I hope you are both right.
I sat on the crew bus to the car-park today and listened to a group of Mixed Fleet crew moaning about the way BA roster them.
They were unhappy with all their standby duties but also unhappy about, when they are flying, how they get very little time off.
It seems very sad to me that BA could have got this all so right.
There are thousands of us that did not strike; and it seems strange to me, for BA to let us all down by not keeping to their promises.
One was to transfer work fairly.
Another was to only transfer work over as current fleets shrink and not before.
And yet another one was to pay market rate plus 10% to Mixed Fleet.
They were promises made by BA or have I imagined them!!
I sat on the crew bus to the car-park today and listened to a group of Mixed Fleet crew moaning about the way BA roster them.
They were unhappy with all their standby duties but also unhappy about, when they are flying, how they get very little time off.
It seems very sad to me that BA could have got this all so right.
There are thousands of us that did not strike; and it seems strange to me, for BA to let us all down by not keeping to their promises.
One was to transfer work fairly.
Another was to only transfer work over as current fleets shrink and not before.
And yet another one was to pay market rate plus 10% to Mixed Fleet.
They were promises made by BA or have I imagined them!!
BA will get it right, but there will be innocent casualties I'm afraid. Also to throw another curve ball into the mix, the manager of MF and us on EF now is a person who IMO will stop at NOTHING to get HER way. She is ruthless, and again IMO and many cabin crew managers NOT what WE want as a manager.
We need a proper union NOW as BA I'm afraid are going to use the current situation to their advantage and MF in particular are goin to suffer more than most. Its interesting that BA has chosen RIO and Phoenix as the next longhaul destinations to be transferred. Both can and no doubt WILL be operated as nightstops compared with the minimum 48hrs that WW crew get at the moment. ( Yes I'm aware that both flights don't go every day at the moment) That in itself will make MF crew even more tired.
What I don't get is that MF crew will reach 900hrs very quickly at this rate so won't be beneficial to BA in the long run. I know that the 900hr rule though could change in the future
The market rate + 10% one is not right IMO either. Lots of other airlines eg. Easy/ Ryanair/ Thomson etc get loads of commission which we don't.
Last edited by JUAN TRIPP; 4th May 2011 at 21:43.
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Well Litebulbs, you are probably right but I feel equally let down by Bassa, because it is their really bad handling of all of this that has got us in this big mess.
They actually encouraged the start of Mixed Fleet by their refusal to talk and it is they that have caused BA to introduce VCCs because of their rush to strike, rather than negotiating in good faith.
So basically, I am having a rather bad day and feel let down by both of them.
I don't really expect those of you that don't fly as cabin crew for BA to understand my internal feelings but it is a very sad day when people like me, that are truly dedicated to BA feel the way that many of us do.
I still love my job and I actually love giving good customer service and seeing happy passengers get off saying how much they enjoyed their flight, so I will continue as always; but I am sad how all this has happened and it should have been handled so much better by both sides.
They actually encouraged the start of Mixed Fleet by their refusal to talk and it is they that have caused BA to introduce VCCs because of their rush to strike, rather than negotiating in good faith.
So basically, I am having a rather bad day and feel let down by both of them.
I don't really expect those of you that don't fly as cabin crew for BA to understand my internal feelings but it is a very sad day when people like me, that are truly dedicated to BA feel the way that many of us do.
I still love my job and I actually love giving good customer service and seeing happy passengers get off saying how much they enjoyed their flight, so I will continue as always; but I am sad how all this has happened and it should have been handled so much better by both sides.
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Can't argue with any of that Betty. It is a cold hard fact of business, that you are a resource but an expense too. Your employer has set the value on what it sees as the future in your community, so it is about surviving for as long as you can on your current package.
To be fair, my last comment on contracts means cock all too, as SOSR sits there every day and the employer only needs to show that it has a belief that what it is doing is substantial, to allow it to happen.
But and it is a big but, SOSR was not used when it could have been, so that does say something too and you should take some comfort from that.
As to how my union has handled this....................
To be fair, my last comment on contracts means cock all too, as SOSR sits there every day and the employer only needs to show that it has a belief that what it is doing is substantial, to allow it to happen.
But and it is a big but, SOSR was not used when it could have been, so that does say something too and you should take some comfort from that.
As to how my union has handled this....................
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Yes JT,
I think you are right and I feel very sorry for these new crew.
I also agree about our new woman at the top!! My manager does not like her and I trust my manager's opinion!!
I am just having a bad day, so take no notice of me, I will perk up again soon.
Take care am off to bed now.
I think you are right and I feel very sorry for these new crew.
I also agree about our new woman at the top!! My manager does not like her and I trust my manager's opinion!!
I am just having a bad day, so take no notice of me, I will perk up again soon.
Take care am off to bed now.
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Unite has 1.5 million members, pays a huge amount into the Labour coffers, but for what? The EU has done more for employee rights than any UK Government in the last 30 odd years, if not more. We as employees have the weakest employment rights in the western side of Europe, but the Mailers think that is too much. Just think, if the proposal for amending the right to take an unfair dismissal to Tribunal changes, new employees will be on probation for two years. Fair?
Anyway, I'm back off down Tooting Broadway; Power to the People!
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Hello Betty Girl,
Firstly I would like to thank you for unbiased comments regarding MF and what I am about to say is not meant to spark any ill feeling at all. I have been a member of this site for many years, however not compelled to contribute until now. I have done several temporary contracts with yourselves on WW and now I have joined MF. I would gladly give my hat up for half of what WW/EF earn/days off/etc etc
Why do you feel like a second class citizen??? We do not wear the hat in the CRC, we put it on after security and on again to collect our suitcases. Period. The only chance you have to see us is the brief time in security and when we look like the living dead collecting our suitcases. (No one wears their hat to the carpark).
Children's shoes, school meals, afterschool clubs, petrol, food, clothes, rent and mortgages still have to be paid for, whereas....a hat is a hat is a hat....and to be quite frank looks lovely, but is a pain in the bum!!! Flatens your hair and you just don't know where to put it!!
(nb please don't tell me where I can put it as Ive heard it all before)
With kind regards GOExxx
Firstly I would like to thank you for unbiased comments regarding MF and what I am about to say is not meant to spark any ill feeling at all. I have been a member of this site for many years, however not compelled to contribute until now. I have done several temporary contracts with yourselves on WW and now I have joined MF. I would gladly give my hat up for half of what WW/EF earn/days off/etc etc
Why do you feel like a second class citizen??? We do not wear the hat in the CRC, we put it on after security and on again to collect our suitcases. Period. The only chance you have to see us is the brief time in security and when we look like the living dead collecting our suitcases. (No one wears their hat to the carpark).
Children's shoes, school meals, afterschool clubs, petrol, food, clothes, rent and mortgages still have to be paid for, whereas....a hat is a hat is a hat....and to be quite frank looks lovely, but is a pain in the bum!!! Flatens your hair and you just don't know where to put it!!
(nb please don't tell me where I can put it as Ive heard it all before)
With kind regards GOExxx
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Heard today form a very reliable source, that a pilot who has been subject to alleged bullying, harrassment on the BASSA forum is about to launch a High Court action for substantial damages having politely asked on multiple occasions to have the posts deleted as in his opinion they were allegedly libellous and defamatory. The posts allegedly remain.
Allegedly, a certain infamous ex BASSA rep will be named and an injunction will be sought to reveal the names of numerous anonymous (pseudonym) posters who will also be sued.
As the costs to lauch such an action (without damages factored in) will possibly run above £75,000, with a QC involved, I hope that an amicable solution is found as the financial consequences for the respondants/defendants could be disastrous if they do not have deep pockets to defend such a case and if they lose......
I understand that the claimaint will be seeking punitive damages in the order of 'hundreds of thousands' of pounds - Ouchh !
Allegedly, a certain infamous ex BASSA rep will be named and an injunction will be sought to reveal the names of numerous anonymous (pseudonym) posters who will also be sued.
As the costs to lauch such an action (without damages factored in) will possibly run above £75,000, with a QC involved, I hope that an amicable solution is found as the financial consequences for the respondants/defendants could be disastrous if they do not have deep pockets to defend such a case and if they lose......
I understand that the claimaint will be seeking punitive damages in the order of 'hundreds of thousands' of pounds - Ouchh !
Heard that HAM is the latest route to go over to MF in the next few months ...
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GofE,
I am E/F and I see crew in hats, as you say in the baggage hall and getting on aircraft and in the CRC.
I would love us all to be on the same contract but that is not to be, but the hats do make me sad and it is something that it is just hard to explain. It's from my heart, a kind of feeling of my employer rejecting me and all my hard work. It is hard to explain.
Surely we should all wear the uniform the same! It is a UNIFORM after all and that term refers to uniformity. Even the uniform standards book that we work to is different. We work to the same standard as all BA uniformed staff work to except for M/F and crew idols. Why not have us ALL work to the higher standard!! Even have all air crew work to the same standard!
Anyway take care.
Just off on an early!!
I am E/F and I see crew in hats, as you say in the baggage hall and getting on aircraft and in the CRC.
I would love us all to be on the same contract but that is not to be, but the hats do make me sad and it is something that it is just hard to explain. It's from my heart, a kind of feeling of my employer rejecting me and all my hard work. It is hard to explain.
Surely we should all wear the uniform the same! It is a UNIFORM after all and that term refers to uniformity. Even the uniform standards book that we work to is different. We work to the same standard as all BA uniformed staff work to except for M/F and crew idols. Why not have us ALL work to the higher standard!! Even have all air crew work to the same standard!
Anyway take care.
Just off on an early!!
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Pilot kicking off
Good luck to the pilot as well - I hope all those who has posted terrible comments on BASSA forums are made to (literally) pay for all this. For the hell the pilot must have been though over the last year I would not feel sorry for the ex BASSA rep losing everything. This nonsense has run its course and needs to stop immediately and a hefty court case unfortunately may do this.
That said, the comments are disgusting and I'd happily have a whip round for him amongst crew. A few of us have nothing but respect for him, top bloke who is being unfairly bullied by thugs. Nothing on the bassa forum or crewforum so wonder if this is just galley FM.
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Hi Betty
Thanks for your reply...but as you say I can't have 'your standard of money' and at the moment you cannot have a mf hat......I'd give up the hat and the lot, and wear a bin bag if I could have your t & cs but its never going to happen and that is not what I signed up for and I guess at the time you signed your contract a hat wasn't part of the uniform standard.
I must admit that on mass, the hats do look impressive, but when you take them off onboard and your hair looks like a pancake on top its doesn't look very attractive at all!!!!
In reality Betty they are a pain in the backside but look lovely. It doesn't change the way I do my job because I wear one, but my life has changed totally due to the renumeration, rostering and days off etc......when people say 'you knew what you were signing up for', in reality many and I do mean MANY did not realise how low the pay is after you have fed and watered yourself down route. I loved working with WW crew and had a ball and I love working with MF crew.....but you know having a 'ball' is not the term I could use now as financially you can't have one!!
I hold out for things to change....many do.....but when it comes down to it I do believe that you have more chance of getting your hat than I will ever have of earning a decent wage that I can live on without worry.
Just wanted to give you a different angle to look at....hope all goes well with sorting out your dispute and that it comes to an end with a good conclusion for you.
Take care
GOEx
I must admit that on mass, the hats do look impressive, but when you take them off onboard and your hair looks like a pancake on top its doesn't look very attractive at all!!!!
In reality Betty they are a pain in the backside but look lovely. It doesn't change the way I do my job because I wear one, but my life has changed totally due to the renumeration, rostering and days off etc......when people say 'you knew what you were signing up for', in reality many and I do mean MANY did not realise how low the pay is after you have fed and watered yourself down route. I loved working with WW crew and had a ball and I love working with MF crew.....but you know having a 'ball' is not the term I could use now as financially you can't have one!!
I hold out for things to change....many do.....but when it comes down to it I do believe that you have more chance of getting your hat than I will ever have of earning a decent wage that I can live on without worry.
Just wanted to give you a different angle to look at....hope all goes well with sorting out your dispute and that it comes to an end with a good conclusion for you.
Take care
GOE
x
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Employment tribunals under way....
......according to the Daily Mail.
British Airways striker sacked after 'he threatened to poison pilot' in YouTube rant | Mail Online
British Airways striker sacked after 'he threatened to poison pilot' in YouTube rant | Mail Online
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GofE,
I understand everything you say and when you compare me not having a hat with the wages and tiredness that M/F crew are enduring, you are right, it pales into insignificance.
I have for a long time posted on here, saying how wrong your wages are and you will find that all WW and E/F crew are shocked that BA has set the level so low.
I truly hope it all improves for you all in the future because, long term, BA won't have happy and productive crew if they are poor and jet lagged.
I know what doing longhaul is like, and I was often tired and that was working to the WW agreement!! So all of us are very sad that you are working to this contract and most of us with any intelligent can see that none of you could have realised how bad it was going to be, pay wise. After all, you were being told it would be market rate plus 10% and we all know that, that is not true!
I am just sad about how BA has managed to make us feel different to each other and the hat is a visible symbol of that. I don't begrudge you all having the hat because it does look lovely on most of you, did see a sight this morning but that's by the by!! I have been in BA for quite some time and worn a hat in the past, a big panama one, that really did mess up your hair, so yes I understand what you are saying with regard to that. I do think it looks nice and I would not object to wearing it but likewise I don't mind not wearing it, it is more the fact that it separates us out from each other that I find upsetting.
So yes GofE, I am very lucky to have joined BA, when I did.
The other thing that I would like to point out is that for a London based job most cabin crew still earn an average wage for living and working in the London and home counties area. These huge salaries that people keep on quoting are the salaries of a very few WW CSDs that are at the top of their pay scale and may well have a 'mate' in scheduling!!!!
Most current cabin crew earn a very normal wage, enough to live in this area and pay for child care and a mortgage etc. I am a separated mum and I live in Maidenhead and I certainly don't have an extravagant lifestyle and I get help from my ex partner to pay my bills.
So I just can't understand how BA feel the wages you are earning is ever going to be enough!
I really wish you luck GofE and I hope these things get sorted out for you and you get to earn a decent wage or you find a better job that you enjoy just as much.
Good luck and you are right, my worry over a little hat is nothing compared to how you all are being treated by the employer I have always loved and been proud of.
Take care.
I understand everything you say and when you compare me not having a hat with the wages and tiredness that M/F crew are enduring, you are right, it pales into insignificance.
I have for a long time posted on here, saying how wrong your wages are and you will find that all WW and E/F crew are shocked that BA has set the level so low.
I truly hope it all improves for you all in the future because, long term, BA won't have happy and productive crew if they are poor and jet lagged.
I know what doing longhaul is like, and I was often tired and that was working to the WW agreement!! So all of us are very sad that you are working to this contract and most of us with any intelligent can see that none of you could have realised how bad it was going to be, pay wise. After all, you were being told it would be market rate plus 10% and we all know that, that is not true!
I am just sad about how BA has managed to make us feel different to each other and the hat is a visible symbol of that. I don't begrudge you all having the hat because it does look lovely on most of you, did see a sight this morning but that's by the by!! I have been in BA for quite some time and worn a hat in the past, a big panama one, that really did mess up your hair, so yes I understand what you are saying with regard to that. I do think it looks nice and I would not object to wearing it but likewise I don't mind not wearing it, it is more the fact that it separates us out from each other that I find upsetting.
So yes GofE, I am very lucky to have joined BA, when I did.
The other thing that I would like to point out is that for a London based job most cabin crew still earn an average wage for living and working in the London and home counties area. These huge salaries that people keep on quoting are the salaries of a very few WW CSDs that are at the top of their pay scale and may well have a 'mate' in scheduling!!!!
Most current cabin crew earn a very normal wage, enough to live in this area and pay for child care and a mortgage etc. I am a separated mum and I live in Maidenhead and I certainly don't have an extravagant lifestyle and I get help from my ex partner to pay my bills.
So I just can't understand how BA feel the wages you are earning is ever going to be enough!
I really wish you luck GofE and I hope these things get sorted out for you and you get to earn a decent wage or you find a better job that you enjoy just as much.
Good luck and you are right, my worry over a little hat is nothing compared to how you all are being treated by the employer I have always loved and been proud of.
Take care.
