BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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It may have escaped some CC folk, but the company is going through another bout of reorganisation. Lots of departments have been shifted about the place and, surprise, surprise, some senior managers seem to have vanished. Oh and they've only announced the top level structure so far. So what does that tell us about the way the company operates. Well, put simply, change is the only constant. So anyone who thinks that they can stay doing the same thing week in week out, year after year, is fooling themselves. That doesn't mean we'll all get asked to reapply for our jobs on lower wages and harsher conditions. It does mean that in order to stay competitive in a pretty vicious business, we will need to get slicker in what we do, find ways to reduce costs and still deliver excellent customer service. Bottom line, we all get to work harder, but at least we all have jobs and hopefully pensions in the future. That's the reality. Anyone who thinks they can get a better deal elsewhere is welcome to try, but for cabin crew, many will know that the BA deal for all bar MF is way above what other UK based carriers will offer.
Final thing that is worth considering. What was the People department (HR in old speak) is now lumped in with Legal and Government Affairs. The area is headed up by the old head of Legal. The other notable nugget is that Bill Francis is confirmed as head of IFCE, so from KW's viewpoint, he clearly has been doing the right things.
Final thing that is worth considering. What was the People department (HR in old speak) is now lumped in with Legal and Government Affairs. The area is headed up by the old head of Legal. The other notable nugget is that Bill Francis is confirmed as head of IFCE, so from KW's viewpoint, he clearly has been doing the right things.
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Miss M
Thanks for the reply.
I do though have to echo Col W and ask why? It is not a unions job to pass judgement on management decisions on the details of the service provided. A union provides a conduit for members to express their thoughts and concerns to management and vice versa as well as to negotiate for its members in a way that would be practically impossible as individuals.
However if something is changed that you would not be consulted on as an individual i.e. change in menu from rat supreme to rat-o-van, or the issuing of towels, then you should not expect to be consulted on it as a group or union.
It does seem that this dispute is as much about the power to run the airline, or at least veto any decision it doesn't like, as anything else.
Regards
Thanks for the reply.
I do though have to echo Col W and ask why? It is not a unions job to pass judgement on management decisions on the details of the service provided. A union provides a conduit for members to express their thoughts and concerns to management and vice versa as well as to negotiate for its members in a way that would be practically impossible as individuals.
However if something is changed that you would not be consulted on as an individual i.e. change in menu from rat supreme to rat-o-van, or the issuing of towels, then you should not expect to be consulted on it as a group or union.
It does seem that this dispute is as much about the power to run the airline, or at least veto any decision it doesn't like, as anything else.
Regards
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MissM
Reference Hot Towels in WTP
This was discussed at length on the Bassa Forum, as well as the usual Bassa notices, so I find your version of events surprising.
BA DID approach Bassa to introduce the hot towels. Bassa as usual refused unless an extra crew was provided to deliver these towels.
Reference Hot Towels in WTP
This was discussed at length on the Bassa Forum, as well as the usual Bassa notices, so I find your version of events surprising.
BA DID approach Bassa to introduce the hot towels. Bassa as usual refused unless an extra crew was provided to deliver these towels.
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Hot towels
Hot towels were part of the service for the whole of world traveller between 93 and 96 when I was on longhaul. Did BASSA insist a crew member was removed from the crew matrix when BA decided that hot towels would no longer be part of the traveller product? I don't think so. At the time menus and amenity packs were also part of the product, crew rest was divided by 3 so there was a greater crew presence in the cabin as only a third of the crew were on break at any one time.
There have been many changes over the years many have benefited crew, was it too much to ask for some increased productivity and product enhancements to help the company become more competative during a period of great difficulty.
There have been many changes over the years many have benefited crew, was it too much to ask for some increased productivity and product enhancements to help the company become more competative during a period of great difficulty.
Hot towels is an issue which couldn't even be bothered to be mentioned by BA at a meeting with BASSA. That's why the union has advised us since not to deliver it. We are not against service improvement. But, BA need to begin consulting us. If BA had been bothered to mention and discuss it with our union I think you would have found it to be delivered on our flights.
Last edited by vctenderness; 24th Dec 2010 at 11:18. Reason: typo
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MissM,
Whether wittingly or otherwise you exemplify the attitude that is the problem at the very core of this dispute.
I see WW is a hero, and this from a fairly moderate newspaper,
The business heroes and villains of 2010 - Business Analysis & Features, Business - The Independent
Whether wittingly or otherwise you exemplify the attitude that is the problem at the very core of this dispute.
I see WW is a hero, and this from a fairly moderate newspaper,
The business heroes and villains of 2010 - Business Analysis & Features, Business - The Independent
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The sooner BA realise that they have to consult BASSA over such things the better for everyone.
BA cannot survive without BASSA and we will prevail.
I am proud to say I was diverted last week and I insisted (and got) my two local nights as per our agreement.
The passengers just had to suffer it but that's not my fault it's theirs for not asking BASSA for the DA and abusing it last time.
The Workers will prevail and I repeat that will be good for everyone even disgracefil embittered VCC flightdeck.
BA cannot survive without BASSA and we will prevail.
I am proud to say I was diverted last week and I insisted (and got) my two local nights as per our agreement.
The passengers just had to suffer it but that's not my fault it's theirs for not asking BASSA for the DA and abusing it last time.
The Workers will prevail and I repeat that will be good for everyone even disgracefil embittered VCC flightdeck.
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The sooner BA realise that they have to consult BASSA over such things the better for everyone.
BA cannot survive without BASSA and we will prevail.
I am proud to say I was diverted last week and I insisted (and got) my two local nights as per our agreement.
The passengers just had to suffer it but that's not my fault it's theirs for not asking BASSA for the DA and abusing it last time.
The Workers will prevail and I repeat that will be good for everyone even disgracefil embittered VCC flightdeck.
BA cannot survive without BASSA and we will prevail.
I am proud to say I was diverted last week and I insisted (and got) my two local nights as per our agreement.
The passengers just had to suffer it but that's not my fault it's theirs for not asking BASSA for the DA and abusing it last time.
The Workers will prevail and I repeat that will be good for everyone even disgracefil embittered VCC flightdeck.
Nobody could be that naieve as to post such lunatic fringe statements on a public, open forum.
BA cannot survive without BASSA and we will prevail.
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Not trolling. You just can't accept different views to your. Closed and small minded.
What is wromng with demanding my rights and also making sue those rights are not abused as Mojito has pointed out earlier (and Miss M).
Good solid BASSA comrades by the sound of it. We will once again stand shoulder to shoulder on the picket lines and at the glorious days at Bedfont.
Unless you were there to share the comaradary you will not understand.
What is wromng with demanding my rights and also making sue those rights are not abused as Mojito has pointed out earlier (and Miss M).
Good solid BASSA comrades by the sound of it. We will once again stand shoulder to shoulder on the picket lines and at the glorious days at Bedfont.
Unless you were there to share the comaradary you will not understand.
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Crewfriend,
I'll bite, a little. It has nothing to do with 'standing up for rights' but it has everything to do with not moving with the times and demanding terms and conditions that are unsustainable in the modern economic climate. Terms and conditions that, through weak and ineffectual management, haven't been rationalised and thus are being paid for by all the other departments who have rationalised over the years.
The backlash seen against the militant BASSA stance is testimony to this. The rest of BA are fed up of the BASSA ivory tower and the 'no no no' stance of luddite trades unionists and socialist worker party members within.
Explain how, flight crew can operate a diverted service after minimum rest but the Cabin Crew require/demand 48 hours? Is there any sane, safety or organisational reason behind the difference? Surely the best aim would be to get the customer to where they want to go safely and expediciously? But, you getting a tiny 'one over' on the company take preference? And still militant BASSA members are confused as to why the rest of the company members, Unite members as well, took an opposition stance.
Enjoy your burst of militancy and the troubles its caused, BA can and will function without BASSA and it will be a far easier place to work. Especially after the shenanigans that I have had to deal with during the recent snow disruption.
Sums it up. Goodnight Hugo C.
I'll bite, a little. It has nothing to do with 'standing up for rights' but it has everything to do with not moving with the times and demanding terms and conditions that are unsustainable in the modern economic climate. Terms and conditions that, through weak and ineffectual management, haven't been rationalised and thus are being paid for by all the other departments who have rationalised over the years.
The backlash seen against the militant BASSA stance is testimony to this. The rest of BA are fed up of the BASSA ivory tower and the 'no no no' stance of luddite trades unionists and socialist worker party members within.
Explain how, flight crew can operate a diverted service after minimum rest but the Cabin Crew require/demand 48 hours? Is there any sane, safety or organisational reason behind the difference? Surely the best aim would be to get the customer to where they want to go safely and expediciously? But, you getting a tiny 'one over' on the company take preference? And still militant BASSA members are confused as to why the rest of the company members, Unite members as well, took an opposition stance.
Enjoy your burst of militancy and the troubles its caused, BA can and will function without BASSA and it will be a far easier place to work. Especially after the shenanigans that I have had to deal with during the recent snow disruption.
Unless you were there to share the comaradary you will not understand.
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The mother of all room parties!
2 local nights to have the mother of all room parties.... spending the diversion payment they have just been awarded...what a shame they weren't running coaches from Prestwick this year.
Thankfully the current ballot will ensure the demise of these Spannish practices, bring on the strike and subsequent dismissal of the millitants that are dragging this airline down.
Thankfully the current ballot will ensure the demise of these Spannish practices, bring on the strike and subsequent dismissal of the millitants that are dragging this airline down.
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You know something? Reading the last few postings on here has made me realise that you guys that come on here day after day spouting off your anti BASSA venom and copying and pasting items BASSA and crewforum and constantly slating the posters off are actually no different and no better than them.
Anybody that dares to have a different opinion gets shot down in flames and branded as militant.
I am neither militant nor do I wish BA any harm. They have been good employers to me over the years. I did go on strike and it was the hardest decision I have ever had to make.
BASSA have always maintained that this dispute was never about a fight for survival and it was about breaking the union. Time has shown that BASSA were correct and that BA has been exposed.
Lets hope for all our sakes this matter is resolved soon. BA may be on a winning streak with its army of volunteers happy to take our jobs - but god help BA if anything major happens to one of our flights with volunteers on it because that will be the end of the airline.
So there you go have fun at slagging me off and ripping my post to pieces - I won't be back so fill your boots. That's of course if the mods don't delete it first.
Goodbye and good luck.
Anybody that dares to have a different opinion gets shot down in flames and branded as militant.
I am neither militant nor do I wish BA any harm. They have been good employers to me over the years. I did go on strike and it was the hardest decision I have ever had to make.
BASSA have always maintained that this dispute was never about a fight for survival and it was about breaking the union. Time has shown that BASSA were correct and that BA has been exposed.
Lets hope for all our sakes this matter is resolved soon. BA may be on a winning streak with its army of volunteers happy to take our jobs - but god help BA if anything major happens to one of our flights with volunteers on it because that will be the end of the airline.
So there you go have fun at slagging me off and ripping my post to pieces - I won't be back so fill your boots. That's of course if the mods don't delete it first.
Goodbye and good luck.
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Crewfriend:
Shame BASSA members didn't stand shoulder to shoulder this holiday period instead of allowing their friends to work with VCC's and limited crew compliments. This is exactly the kind of 'solidarity' the typical BASSA member knows, letting their colleagues down while they 'chuck a sickie' so they can enjoy their xmas whilst their comrades struggle on with their trips, getting our customers to their destinations after the worst weather disruption we have probably ever experienced.
Meanwhile the crew that have worked are bitching and whining that BA is railroading over their agreements, using MF crew on 777 a/c to european destinations. Well look know further than your own membership to ask why this has been allowed to happen? Did you really expect BA to cancel flights and leave customers sleeping in terminals?
I think BA has proved they no longer need to consider BASSA, we can and will continue work perfectly well without them!
Shame BASSA members didn't stand shoulder to shoulder this holiday period instead of allowing their friends to work with VCC's and limited crew compliments. This is exactly the kind of 'solidarity' the typical BASSA member knows, letting their colleagues down while they 'chuck a sickie' so they can enjoy their xmas whilst their comrades struggle on with their trips, getting our customers to their destinations after the worst weather disruption we have probably ever experienced.
Meanwhile the crew that have worked are bitching and whining that BA is railroading over their agreements, using MF crew on 777 a/c to european destinations. Well look know further than your own membership to ask why this has been allowed to happen? Did you really expect BA to cancel flights and leave customers sleeping in terminals?
I think BA has proved they no longer need to consider BASSA, we can and will continue work perfectly well without them!
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BASSA have always maintained that this dispute was never about a fight for survival and it was about breaking the union. Time has shown that BASSA were correct and that BA has been exposed.
BASSA were 'tasked', as all other Unions were, with coming up with cost savings in an atrocious economic operating environment. They failed. It doesn't matter how you try and dress up their 'offers', they failed. Thus BA imposed. This was as much for the reason that many other departments would sign off permanent changes until ALL departments had met their targets.
BASSA have failed, systematically, to enagage BA for change and have thus been sidelined. They call it Union busting, the rest of us call it about time that BASSA pulled its collective weight. View it how you will but shouting that others have a different viewpoint whilst only accepting that which is spoon fed to you by a rouge Union branch is asking for trouble.
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Crewfriend, when you signed up for PPRuNe, you agreed to abide by the PPRuNe rules.
Yet here we are, only a month after you agreed to play the ball and not the player, and you call another poster "closed and small minded".
Things here are fairly simple; your opinion on the BA CC dispute is more than welcome. Your current way of expressing it is not.
Discuss your points in an adult fashion please, and refrain from personal attacks.
gingerminge, you say "if the mods donīt delete it first".
There is nothing in your post that goes against the rules.
So why do you think we will delete it?
Yet here we are, only a month after you agreed to play the ball and not the player, and you call another poster "closed and small minded".
Things here are fairly simple; your opinion on the BA CC dispute is more than welcome. Your current way of expressing it is not.
Discuss your points in an adult fashion please, and refrain from personal attacks.
gingerminge, you say "if the mods donīt delete it first".
There is nothing in your post that goes against the rules.
So why do you think we will delete it?
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I do despair!
Reading the rants on here are more than testiment in concluding that this 'union' really need to be consigned to history, or, at the very least, a new, moderate leadership that works WITH the Company rather than against it.
How on earth can we be competitive with a mindset from the seventies?
How on earth can we be competitive with a mindset from the seventies?
Last edited by ranger07; 26th Dec 2010 at 20:05.
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Lets hope for all our sakes this matter is resolved soon. BA may be on a winning streak with its army of volunteers happy to take our jobs - but god help BA if anything major happens to one of our flights with volunteers on it because that will be the end of the airline.
What happened was that the strike was a dismal failure. It didn't stop the airline. Maybe it is time that the membership sat down and thought about what they hoped to achieve by walking out. It would appear that their union leaders have established that the original cause has been lost, so what benefit now from continuing ?
I do worry about the mindset though of people who think that it would be terrible if an incident occurred on a plane with VCC on board. The situation is no different to having newly qualified crew on board. In fact in some cases, VCC are better qualified. I know of a number who are ex-cabin crew who are now working in other parts of the airline and have volunteered. There seems to be a widespread assumption that flights were soley staffed with volunteers. Not true. My understanding is that during the strikes, when VCC were used, they were always accompanied by full time cabin crew. In fact, the numbers of cabin crew who reported for work meant that an awful lot of VCC were stood down.
The other aspect is that assuming that if an incident occurred on a flight with VCC operating on it, that the result would be the end of the airline, that suggests a number of things.
1) That by going on strike, cabin crew are risking the airline going out of business and hence flushing their jobs down the toilet.
2) They are knowingly taking this risk. So in fact it would seem that they actively want the company to go bust and for them to have no job. Truly, turkeys voting for Xmas.
Hence my concern about the strikers' thinking. It seems to be totally suicidal.
It will be interesting to see if BA ask for doctor's notes for any claimed sickness over the Xmas period. I suspect that malingerers who thought they could 'get one back at the company' may be in for a rude shock.