British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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Union considers fresh strike ballot over "human rights violation
The Unite trade union is considering a new strike ballot of British Airways cabin crew over the airline's alleged anti-union activities.
Unite anger at alleged BA surveillance of cabin crew | Business | The Observer
Unite anger at alleged BA surveillance of cabin crew | Business | The Observer
Tony Woodley is still holding out for a peace deal with BA. Photograph: Ben Stansall/AFP/Getty Images
The Unite trade union is considering a new strike ballot of British Airways cabin crew over the airline's alleged anti-union activities. The move comes amid allegations from Unite that BA has subjected at least two crew members to surveillance at their own homes and has prevented shop stewards from representing staff.
Officials are expected to raise the issue at a meeting of Unite-affiliated cabin crew at London's Kempton Park racecourse tomorrow, where cabin crew will wear yellow ribbons in solidarity with colleagues who have been sacked or suspended since the dispute began. However, Unite's joint general secretaries, Tony Woodley and Derek Simpson, are holding out for a peace deal.
A dispute over reductions in costs is mired in wrangles over sanctions against staff who joined 22 days of strikes earlier this year, and disciplinary proceedings against flight attendants over alleged misdemeanours during the dispute.
The latest allegation from Unite's main cabin crew branch, Bassa, focuses on BA's security department, called Asset Protection. According to last month's Bassa newsletter, two members facing disciplinary action were followed to their homes. "Two more crew members reported to the police that they had been the subject of an ongoing surveillance at their own homes by BA's shadowy 'Asset Protection' department," the newsletter says, adding that members have seen photographic evidence of this.
Last week, Bassa appealed for cabin crew to volunteer as shop stewards because it has lost key members to sackings or suspensions, including the official in charge of representing staff in disciplinary hearings.
BA declined to comment on the surveillance allegations. A spokesperson said: "Investigations into any allegations are conducted under the company's disciplinary procedures, which are agreed with all our unions, including Unite."
A spokesperson for Unite said: "BA is crossing a line. It is moving on from violating people's rights at work to violating their human rights."
The Unite trade union is considering a new strike ballot of British Airways cabin crew over the airline's alleged anti-union activities. The move comes amid allegations from Unite that BA has subjected at least two crew members to surveillance at their own homes and has prevented shop stewards from representing staff.
Officials are expected to raise the issue at a meeting of Unite-affiliated cabin crew at London's Kempton Park racecourse tomorrow, where cabin crew will wear yellow ribbons in solidarity with colleagues who have been sacked or suspended since the dispute began. However, Unite's joint general secretaries, Tony Woodley and Derek Simpson, are holding out for a peace deal.
A dispute over reductions in costs is mired in wrangles over sanctions against staff who joined 22 days of strikes earlier this year, and disciplinary proceedings against flight attendants over alleged misdemeanours during the dispute.
The latest allegation from Unite's main cabin crew branch, Bassa, focuses on BA's security department, called Asset Protection. According to last month's Bassa newsletter, two members facing disciplinary action were followed to their homes. "Two more crew members reported to the police that they had been the subject of an ongoing surveillance at their own homes by BA's shadowy 'Asset Protection' department," the newsletter says, adding that members have seen photographic evidence of this.
Last week, Bassa appealed for cabin crew to volunteer as shop stewards because it has lost key members to sackings or suspensions, including the official in charge of representing staff in disciplinary hearings.
BA declined to comment on the surveillance allegations. A spokesperson said: "Investigations into any allegations are conducted under the company's disciplinary procedures, which are agreed with all our unions, including Unite."
A spokesperson for Unite said: "BA is crossing a line. It is moving on from violating people's rights at work to violating their human rights."
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Juan why on earth would you want to read anything from bassa if you are not a member... ?? I wouldnt read anything from BALPA as im not a member so why do you want to read bassa member notices???? It clearly states on the BASSA site that the threads are for bassa members only??
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dave3,
I am sure the reason Juan and many others, including many pilots and non-union crew, want to read the Bassa postings is because there is the threat of another strike being made by Bassa and it is important for many of us, to know what Bassa is saying to it's members and also what the mood is among the membership, as it affects us all.
Plus of course it can give a bit of light relief and humour to an otherwise boring day!!!
I am sure the reason Juan and many others, including many pilots and non-union crew, want to read the Bassa postings is because there is the threat of another strike being made by Bassa and it is important for many of us, to know what Bassa is saying to it's members and also what the mood is among the membership, as it affects us all.
Plus of course it can give a bit of light relief and humour to an otherwise boring day!!!
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VOLUNTEERS ON EUROFLEET
Many of you have now read the ESS message from Glen Reynolds regarding the
"volunteer crew" recency on EF. Some of you have expressed horror and
outrage on the forum, but we are not at all surprised.
Mr Reynolds talks about the VCCs serving customers during times of
operational disruption. Now does he mean just in times of dispute, or does
this operational disruption include bad weather etc.? If that was the case
these volunteers cannot possibly have their uniform under their desk in
wherever they do their current job, so they must need notice of at least a
day. Does that mean they could then be allocated your work, and take your
trips away, should "Ops" think there may be a crew shortage, due to fog or
other bad weather forecast. Perhaps Mr Reynolds would care to answer this
issue.
It seems to us that this latest scheme once again shows the contempt BA,
and IFCE in particular, have got, not just for their crew, but even for
their own volunteers. Are any of these volunteers looking forward to
being placed in a crew environment? Last time these volunteers flew, if at
all, it was as a rag tag outfit of strike-breakers, volunteer pilots, and
anyone else who in our view could be forced into a uniform. This is
completely different as they will be in the normal crew arena, with things
they've never come across, like IFE, duty frees and hot meals,- and of
course proper crew!
So how should we treat volunteers if on a flight with them? You must
remember that dignity at work is extremely important, and
bullying/harassment is completely unacceptable, even if feelings are
running high. We ask you treat them with politeness and respect - after
all they are one of your crew.
BAs policy of safety and security is also of paramount importance - BA
stress that. If these volunteers attend a briefing for a flight, whether
supernumerary or a familiar flight, they should have already attained a
level of competency in both SEP and Avmed. - that was part of their
training. Under Joint Procedures Manual- Part A2 para 2.3.1 individual
questions should be asked of all crew. The procedure stipulates that if
anyone's SEP knowledge appears inadequate, the briefing continues, and
afterwards the SCCM asks the individual to wait in the briefing room.
Their competency is further checked. If still inadequate they must be
off-loaded. This is quite clearly stated in the manual and applies to ALL
crew. There is no reason why any volunteers would struggle compared to
normal crew as surely BA will have put them through the same training and
will have verified their competency before allowing them to fly. Some of
these volunteers could also be on a familiarisation flight. That means
they are above the minimum CAA limit, so as an example they could be no.7
on a 767, or no. 4 on a 319, which means they should be joining in the
cabin service. Sadly that also means they have taken the place of a normal
crew member for whatever reason. On any familiarisation flights the SCCM
has to complete a checklist regarding competency. According to FCO 1.9.3,
any failure to achieve certain standards means these volunteers should be
sent back to training school to improve. This is only fair as BA has a
moral obligation to provide their pax with crew who are competent in
safety and security, and also properly trained.
Mr Francis has said mixed fleet will only grow with natural wastage. Don't
give him a chance to increase the natural wastage by having crew suspended
or dismissed because they bullied volunteers. Stay professional and SCCMs
ensure ALL your crew are competent at the briefing.
Many of you have now read the ESS message from Glen Reynolds regarding the
"volunteer crew" recency on EF. Some of you have expressed horror and
outrage on the forum, but we are not at all surprised.
Mr Reynolds talks about the VCCs serving customers during times of
operational disruption. Now does he mean just in times of dispute, or does
this operational disruption include bad weather etc.? If that was the case
these volunteers cannot possibly have their uniform under their desk in
wherever they do their current job, so they must need notice of at least a
day. Does that mean they could then be allocated your work, and take your
trips away, should "Ops" think there may be a crew shortage, due to fog or
other bad weather forecast. Perhaps Mr Reynolds would care to answer this
issue.
It seems to us that this latest scheme once again shows the contempt BA,
and IFCE in particular, have got, not just for their crew, but even for
their own volunteers. Are any of these volunteers looking forward to
being placed in a crew environment? Last time these volunteers flew, if at
all, it was as a rag tag outfit of strike-breakers, volunteer pilots, and
anyone else who in our view could be forced into a uniform. This is
completely different as they will be in the normal crew arena, with things
they've never come across, like IFE, duty frees and hot meals,- and of
course proper crew!
So how should we treat volunteers if on a flight with them? You must
remember that dignity at work is extremely important, and
bullying/harassment is completely unacceptable, even if feelings are
running high. We ask you treat them with politeness and respect - after
all they are one of your crew.
BAs policy of safety and security is also of paramount importance - BA
stress that. If these volunteers attend a briefing for a flight, whether
supernumerary or a familiar flight, they should have already attained a
level of competency in both SEP and Avmed. - that was part of their
training. Under Joint Procedures Manual- Part A2 para 2.3.1 individual
questions should be asked of all crew. The procedure stipulates that if
anyone's SEP knowledge appears inadequate, the briefing continues, and
afterwards the SCCM asks the individual to wait in the briefing room.
Their competency is further checked. If still inadequate they must be
off-loaded. This is quite clearly stated in the manual and applies to ALL
crew. There is no reason why any volunteers would struggle compared to
normal crew as surely BA will have put them through the same training and
will have verified their competency before allowing them to fly. Some of
these volunteers could also be on a familiarisation flight. That means
they are above the minimum CAA limit, so as an example they could be no.7
on a 767, or no. 4 on a 319, which means they should be joining in the
cabin service. Sadly that also means they have taken the place of a normal
crew member for whatever reason. On any familiarisation flights the SCCM
has to complete a checklist regarding competency. According to FCO 1.9.3,
any failure to achieve certain standards means these volunteers should be
sent back to training school to improve. This is only fair as BA has a
moral obligation to provide their pax with crew who are competent in
safety and security, and also properly trained.
Mr Francis has said mixed fleet will only grow with natural wastage. Don't
give him a chance to increase the natural wastage by having crew suspended
or dismissed because they bullied volunteers. Stay professional and SCCMs
ensure ALL your crew are competent at the briefing.
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Battle lines being drawn?
Seems the main flavour for any ballot will be disciplinaries and the treatment of reps and strikers in this process and now we appear to have VCC as a subject.
Unless I am reading between the lines a little too cynically.
Seems the main flavour for any ballot will be disciplinaries and the treatment of reps and strikers in this process and now we appear to have VCC as a subject.
Unless I am reading between the lines a little too cynically.
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Thanks for the update BETTY GIRL !!
as for the BASSA forum giving
"light relief to another wise boring day".... I never have that problem.. I have a life!!! I am upset that it has come to this at British Airway I COULD NEVER DISCRIBE ANYTHING THAT IS HAPPENING AT THE MOMENT AS" LIGHT RELIEF".......
I find the the comments made on this forum such as "lets go to the unite meeting and video it " to be both childish and bothersome I can only asume these comments are made by people and crew who have no life and are completely failing to take this situation seriously....
I have complained to the mod of this forum re some of the comments as I see some of them as threatening harrassing and bullying to BASSA members...... I wonder if unite would be alowed to knock on the doors of the PPRuNe mods to see if they could be given names and adresses of some of the posters on this site..
I only hope that the posters who are so anti BASSA and Unite have left the union.
I rarely post on this forum and after reading the posts will post no more..
as for the BASSA forum giving
"light relief to another wise boring day".... I never have that problem.. I have a life!!! I am upset that it has come to this at British Airway I COULD NEVER DISCRIBE ANYTHING THAT IS HAPPENING AT THE MOMENT AS" LIGHT RELIEF".......
I find the the comments made on this forum such as "lets go to the unite meeting and video it " to be both childish and bothersome I can only asume these comments are made by people and crew who have no life and are completely failing to take this situation seriously....
I have complained to the mod of this forum re some of the comments as I see some of them as threatening harrassing and bullying to BASSA members...... I wonder if unite would be alowed to knock on the doors of the PPRuNe mods to see if they could be given names and adresses of some of the posters on this site..
I only hope that the posters who are so anti BASSA and Unite have left the union.
I rarely post on this forum and after reading the posts will post no more..
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dave3
wonder if unite would be alowed to knock on the doors of the PPRuNe mods to see if they could be given names and adresses of some of the posters on this site..
Nothing childish about the majority of posts here either. If you want to go down the road in witnessing Puerile behaviour, I could point you in the right direction, dave3.
Last edited by ranger07; 5th Sep 2010 at 18:40.
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I can only asume these comments are made by people and crew who have no life and are completely failing to take this situation seriously....
It's because it's such a serious issue, we all comment here.
What could be more serious than the likes of DH and his intentions possibly affecting all BA staff (the majority of which have adapted to change) affecting our job security and pensions.
Very serious indeed, hence such postings.
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dave 3,
My post was not meant to upset you. So I am sorry if it did.
I know that on the Bassa forum they quote posts from this forum also, so it's quite even.
The big difference is that on Pprune, all posters are welcome whatever their view as long as you are not rude to another poster.
Bassa and crew forum are very one sided and that is because if you disagree with the Bassa stance you get banned and are no longer able to post.
My reference to light relief was the amusing nature of some of Duncan Holleys post, but I expect you realised that. You know the ones I mean about tomatoes and Abba and Vietnam and the Holocaust , oh and lets not forget Argentina!!
You are very correct, it is a great shame that it has come to this and I hold Bassa completely responsible for the mess we are in now and judging by what is being said on the Bassa website, they are going to make it even worse, particularily for loyal members like you.
So good luck dave3 because you need it if you continue to follow DH.
My post was not meant to upset you. So I am sorry if it did.
I know that on the Bassa forum they quote posts from this forum also, so it's quite even.
The big difference is that on Pprune, all posters are welcome whatever their view as long as you are not rude to another poster.
Bassa and crew forum are very one sided and that is because if you disagree with the Bassa stance you get banned and are no longer able to post.
My reference to light relief was the amusing nature of some of Duncan Holleys post, but I expect you realised that. You know the ones I mean about tomatoes and Abba and Vietnam and the Holocaust , oh and lets not forget Argentina!!
You are very correct, it is a great shame that it has come to this and I hold Bassa completely responsible for the mess we are in now and judging by what is being said on the Bassa website, they are going to make it even worse, particularily for loyal members like you.
So good luck dave3 because you need it if you continue to follow DH.
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Dave3
I find the the comments made on this forum such as "lets go to the unite meeting and video it " to be both childish and bothersome I can only asume these comments are made by people and crew who have no life and are completely failing to take this situation seriously....
For example there is currently page upon page of absolute glee on both
the Bassa and Crew at M O'Leary's comments about reducing the number of pilots required to fly an airplane, then contrast that with the horror and utter disbelieve posted on the same forums when BA removed one cabin crew member.
I find the name calling on these forums particularly pathetic and childish - names such as, sausage chips and beans, Lizards and Meerkats and these examples are avoiding the racist abuse that is levelled at Willie because he is Irish, in my mind there is little difference to these racist comments to those made by the Face book pilots.
I have complained to the mod of this forum re some of the comments
as I see some of them as threatening harrassing and bullying to BASSA members......
I just wish that pro-bassa crew like yourself could come on here and actually debate the issues rather than quoting Bassa rhetoric with little substance or making up non-existence complaints.
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Latest posting from DH
This is the latest vile drivel from Mr Holley. I love his arrogant ‘BA can’t touch me’ attitude whilst he continues to bully and harrass this poor CSD and just because he happens to hold a different opinion to BASSA. Why can’t people see that DH is just poison and his vendetta against this CSD is just the same as the one he has against WW. The fact he thought it OK to post this is just sickening!
Good luck to the victim of DH’s vengeful and spiteful harassment campaign, BA may have no control over him, but hopefully the criminal justice system does?
Fill Brancis
Our “friend” Del C Diner, aka xxxxx xxxxx has now taken the thread that he started with the responses to BA and one crew member has since been suspended, this ex BASSA rep really is the lowest of the low. I have contacted him to let him know how I feel and predictably he took my message straight to Tony McCarthy. He sort of forgot that BA have no control over me any more.
Not only did he strike break for personal promotion but he then came on this Forum and started a taunting thread. He then took some replies to BA and caused someone to be suspended. In all my flying career his actions are the nastiest and lowest I have ever encountered.
Please no one respond to this message other than a bump because as sure as eggs are eggs xxxx xxxx will report you and cost you your job. Just ensure his name is “known”.
Finally can I say Hi to Tony McCarthy as I know he will be reading this message very shortly. How’s the bullying going Tony? How’s the union busting going? By the way don’t get too cosy with xxxx xxxx he’s a bit of a snake. Regards to Willie – Love Duncan
Pasted all of the the above from a previous posting by "Chigley".
That just about shoots Mr H in the foot with his own pen; and it exposes exactly who does all the bullying around here !
This is the latest vile drivel from Mr Holley. I love his arrogant ‘BA can’t touch me’ attitude whilst he continues to bully and harrass this poor CSD and just because he happens to hold a different opinion to BASSA. Why can’t people see that DH is just poison and his vendetta against this CSD is just the same as the one he has against WW. The fact he thought it OK to post this is just sickening!
Good luck to the victim of DH’s vengeful and spiteful harassment campaign, BA may have no control over him, but hopefully the criminal justice system does?
Fill Brancis
Our “friend” Del C Diner, aka xxxxx xxxxx has now taken the thread that he started with the responses to BA and one crew member has since been suspended, this ex BASSA rep really is the lowest of the low. I have contacted him to let him know how I feel and predictably he took my message straight to Tony McCarthy. He sort of forgot that BA have no control over me any more.
Not only did he strike break for personal promotion but he then came on this Forum and started a taunting thread. He then took some replies to BA and caused someone to be suspended. In all my flying career his actions are the nastiest and lowest I have ever encountered.
Please no one respond to this message other than a bump because as sure as eggs are eggs xxxx xxxx will report you and cost you your job. Just ensure his name is “known”.
Finally can I say Hi to Tony McCarthy as I know he will be reading this message very shortly. How’s the bullying going Tony? How’s the union busting going? By the way don’t get too cosy with xxxx xxxx he’s a bit of a snake. Regards to Willie – Love Duncan
Pasted all of the the above from a previous posting by "Chigley".
That just about shoots Mr H in the foot with his own pen; and it exposes exactly who does all the bullying around here !
Last edited by Lib Dem; 6th Sep 2010 at 05:37. Reason: forgot to paste Chigley's original posting
Thread Starter
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that can paste any more of his outbursts would make for great reading as the rest of us
Please could you all try and raise your game a little - to something above the level of behaviour that you apparently despise - PPRuNe aspires to be something more than just a venue for repetitive outrage.
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Less than 1000 turn out for union meeting
Sky news reporter at Kempton Park has just confirmed that there is less than 1000 turn out at todays meeting.
Would MissM, asperge, Dave3 et al like to tell us what the point of further IA would be? I fail to see what benefit it would bring, we now have a much larger VCC workforce than in previous strike periods combined with an apathetic community of strikers which is proven by recent ballots and the turn out today at Kempton.
BA will operate a close to normal operation if further IA takes place. There is little point in striking if you are going to have little or no impact whilst at BA it's business as usual. Would this not just be humiliating for the union and it's members? There will be little impact on forward bookings as customers have seen how well BA coped last time.
I think most people would be interested to hear your views on how you see further IA benefiting yourselves or your union?
Would MissM, asperge, Dave3 et al like to tell us what the point of further IA would be? I fail to see what benefit it would bring, we now have a much larger VCC workforce than in previous strike periods combined with an apathetic community of strikers which is proven by recent ballots and the turn out today at Kempton.
BA will operate a close to normal operation if further IA takes place. There is little point in striking if you are going to have little or no impact whilst at BA it's business as usual. Would this not just be humiliating for the union and it's members? There will be little impact on forward bookings as customers have seen how well BA coped last time.
I think most people would be interested to hear your views on how you see further IA benefiting yourselves or your union?
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Don't know if this link will work, but it doesn't look very busy to me...
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._6579673_n.jpg
Those yellow flowers at the front are making me feel upset about the yellow hijack though.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._6579673_n.jpg
Those yellow flowers at the front are making me feel upset about the yellow hijack though.
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Chigley:
I recently did a trip with a purser on EF, who told me that a BASSA rep on EF had told her that a Christmas strike was being planned and 'We know we have lost, this strike is just to f@@k the company up' - Their exact words. I think this purser did not realise at that point of the trip that I had not gone on strike. I think the thinking is 'That if we threaten a strike it will hit bookings so badly, BA will HAVE to talk to us'. It is patently obvious now to anyone outside this dispute that the strike will not have much effect at all. Also, I happen to think that disrupting people's christmas arrangements just because you can is just not on.
Would MissM, asperge, Dave3 et al like to tell us what the point of further IA would be? I fail to see what benefit it would bring, we now have a much larger VCC workforce than in previous strike periods combined with an apathetic community of strikers which is proven by recent ballots and the turn out today at Kempton.
I recently did a trip with a purser on EF, who told me that a BASSA rep on EF had told her that a Christmas strike was being planned and 'We know we have lost, this strike is just to f@@k the company up' - Their exact words. I think this purser did not realise at that point of the trip that I had not gone on strike. I think the thinking is 'That if we threaten a strike it will hit bookings so badly, BA will HAVE to talk to us'. It is patently obvious now to anyone outside this dispute that the strike will not have much effect at all. Also, I happen to think that disrupting people's christmas arrangements just because you can is just not on.
Junior trash
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From elsewhere
Looked more like a puddle in the picture.
Heaven help BASSA if Willy had gotten a 30 minute headstart on the brains trusts musings!
Just checked the crew forum and apparently the turn out is as good as ever, with a sea of yellow.
They are not reporting a blow by blow account, to stop word spreading to WW too quickly.
They are not reporting a blow by blow account, to stop word spreading to WW too quickly.
Heaven help BASSA if Willy had gotten a 30 minute headstart on the brains trusts musings!
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Not surprised really. However, doesn't it require the go-ahead from Unite before a ballot can actually take place? Don't count on that happening.....