British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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Betty girl
If your read my post i said "isn't always the case at the moment"
I have had some wonderful flights with BA crew however I have also witnessed first hand some crew who also had similar attributes to those Virgin crew whom you state after the meal did not see one of them for hours.
In addition a recent satisfaction poll highlighted that Cabin Crew satisfaction improved and this coincided with many of the VCC being onboard....so whilst there are some crew who deserve award after award....there are also many who do not- which was my point i. e Younger crew with Performance related pay who actually want to to the job, is good for the Company.
I agree that you cannot make sweeping generalisations. A lot of current crew are excellent. But then you state "when you get lots of young people working in an airline sickness will rocket" Is this not a sweeping generalisation?
If your read my post i said "isn't always the case at the moment"
I have had some wonderful flights with BA crew however I have also witnessed first hand some crew who also had similar attributes to those Virgin crew whom you state after the meal did not see one of them for hours.
In addition a recent satisfaction poll highlighted that Cabin Crew satisfaction improved and this coincided with many of the VCC being onboard....so whilst there are some crew who deserve award after award....there are also many who do not- which was my point i. e Younger crew with Performance related pay who actually want to to the job, is good for the Company.
I agree that you cannot make sweeping generalisations. A lot of current crew are excellent. But then you state "when you get lots of young people working in an airline sickness will rocket" Is this not a sweeping generalisation?
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At the moment i'm hanging on to see what develops. Saying that I feel like I can see into the future-
Lots of know it all crew, some will somehow get the themselves into CSM positions. I don't even see how BA can recruit for this position externally without first considering internal main crew waiting for promotion. I just hope recruitment get it right.
I don't understand why people keep saying 'fresh crew' 'people who smile' - take a trip on a charter then post your experience. You'll probably find your cabin crew are on their 1st or 2nd season - Pam Ann's different crew impressions spring to mind..
Lots of know it all crew, some will somehow get the themselves into CSM positions. I don't even see how BA can recruit for this position externally without first considering internal main crew waiting for promotion. I just hope recruitment get it right.
I don't understand why people keep saying 'fresh crew' 'people who smile' - take a trip on a charter then post your experience. You'll probably find your cabin crew are on their 1st or 2nd season - Pam Ann's different crew impressions spring to mind..
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Slidebustle
You are absolutely right, its not about age at all its about passion and attitude. There are some fantastic crew at BA and I really do mean that, and these are the sort of people that we need to retain along with bringing other passionate crew from outside.
MF is the way forward, yes I agree the pay isn't great, but hey, if you are willing to work hard, your performance will pay off with bonus AND it is possible for these type of crew to become managers and make a career. I never had great pay at VS but you know I was happy and thats what counts. I know happiness doesn't pay bills, but at the end of the day unless you are in it for the long haul and make a career( where the money is), then see the job as fun then move on!
You sound like a dedicated person with the right attitude
You are absolutely right, its not about age at all its about passion and attitude. There are some fantastic crew at BA and I really do mean that, and these are the sort of people that we need to retain along with bringing other passionate crew from outside.
MF is the way forward, yes I agree the pay isn't great, but hey, if you are willing to work hard, your performance will pay off with bonus AND it is possible for these type of crew to become managers and make a career. I never had great pay at VS but you know I was happy and thats what counts. I know happiness doesn't pay bills, but at the end of the day unless you are in it for the long haul and make a career( where the money is), then see the job as fun then move on!
You sound like a dedicated person with the right attitude
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Well Clublemon.
You are right we should not generalise. But people keep on talking about a few rotten crew which you get in every airline and making it sound like we are all rotten.
I work on eurofleet and we did not have many VCC's on our flights. Might it be that all the dedicated non strikers might have made the survey results go up!!!! Or are you once again putting down all BA cabin crew. Those of us who did not agree with the strike also worked during the strike as well as VCCs.
It is the sweeping nature of alot of peoples comments that are very upsetting to those of us who worked through the strike, who have really good relationships with the flight crew. I certainly do on Eurofleet. I work tirlesly to make my passengers happy and I don't think on eurofleet I have seen a miseable crew member for ages. But people insinuating that it will all be so wonderful because of New Fleet I find very upsetting. However from what you say you must be on longhaul so maybe it is different there.
You are right we should not generalise. But people keep on talking about a few rotten crew which you get in every airline and making it sound like we are all rotten.
I work on eurofleet and we did not have many VCC's on our flights. Might it be that all the dedicated non strikers might have made the survey results go up!!!! Or are you once again putting down all BA cabin crew. Those of us who did not agree with the strike also worked during the strike as well as VCCs.
It is the sweeping nature of alot of peoples comments that are very upsetting to those of us who worked through the strike, who have really good relationships with the flight crew. I certainly do on Eurofleet. I work tirlesly to make my passengers happy and I don't think on eurofleet I have seen a miseable crew member for ages. But people insinuating that it will all be so wonderful because of New Fleet I find very upsetting. However from what you say you must be on longhaul so maybe it is different there.
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Betty Girl good on you for working through the strike! I think during this period we had all the great, positive people, along with VCC's working hard to keep BA flying.
You are right, I know it must be upetting to hear some comments about some crew, but I think this is more so the case in long haul, but like you said, you cannpt put all BA crew in the same boat. My las few flights I have worked with some FAB people! Like you say, you get bad in every airline.
Ive never worked for EF and im only stating in my experience, there were more happier crew at VS and had more fun.
You are right, I know it must be upetting to hear some comments about some crew, but I think this is more so the case in long haul, but like you said, you cannpt put all BA crew in the same boat. My las few flights I have worked with some FAB people! Like you say, you get bad in every airline.
Ive never worked for EF and im only stating in my experience, there were more happier crew at VS and had more fun.
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When you get lots of young people working in an airline sickness will rocket, . Some will come straight from a night out to work with a hangover.
It seems clear from the company's proposals that NF will have a very robust system of performance management and any issues around attendance will be nipped in the bud quite quickly.
Ava Hannah
Why did you go on strike when you were told you would loose ST if you did so??
That's self inflicted injury with such a long commute. If you do get it back it will be with zero seniority.
Mr. Walsh has loyalty to the non-strikers at the moment, he will not want to disadvantage them.
Any action in the European Court could take years. If I were you I would get that CV off to SAA!
That's self inflicted injury with such a long commute. If you do get it back it will be with zero seniority.
Mr. Walsh has loyalty to the non-strikers at the moment, he will not want to disadvantage them.
Any action in the European Court could take years. If I were you I would get that CV off to SAA!
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Ava
You are missing the point.
You are never , ever , EVER, going to get staff travel back by striking.
The best you could do is accept this deal and insist your union starts negotiations in the not too distant future to re-instate it.
Why didn't you accept the previous offer?
Difficult to have sympathy with someone who commutes such a long way but obviously didn't consider the ramifications of striking.
You are missing the point.
You are never , ever , EVER, going to get staff travel back by striking.
The best you could do is accept this deal and insist your union starts negotiations in the not too distant future to re-instate it.
Why didn't you accept the previous offer?
Difficult to have sympathy with someone who commutes such a long way but obviously didn't consider the ramifications of striking.
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Betty girl,
"You know, the pay does not affect me. All I said was that it is low and it is.
£1100 before tax is low and that is if you hardly spend anything downroute while you are away on food.
Plus at LGW, which consider themselves bad off.
1.) they earn more than 11,000
2.)Their hourly rate is more and
3.) they get a breakfast alowance on top at alot of their destinations which New Fleet won't."
A couple of corrections, as your post isn't quite accurate.
1) Some LGW have a lower basic than £11K
2) LGW hourly rate is the same as MF.
3) Our breakfast "allowance" is actually a meal. In some hotels, it's breakfast, like it or lump it. Some hotels (mainly short haul) give us a voucher with a value of a set amount. One hotel (AFAIK), gives us a daily "allowance" which we can use for any incidentals during our stay. We don't get cash/money - ever.
I just wanted to clarify this, as wrong info isn't helping.
What we at LGW have that MF won't get, is:
Overtime (extra pay per hour when duty goes beyond 10.5 hrs)
Overnight allowance (the vast sum of £10 per night....)
Personally, I think there will be plenty of applicants. It's up to them (at least the successful ones) to decide whether they want the job or not and whether they can survive on the pay. Performance related pay is a genius invention, which will sort the wheat from the chaff easily.
IIRC, Singapore Airlines (or is it Thai?), give their CC a 2 year contract. If you're not exeptional, that's it. If you're brilliant, you get another 2 year contract. I know this can't be done here due to the law, but it does make sense as it keeps them on their toes, so to speak.
"You know, the pay does not affect me. All I said was that it is low and it is.
£1100 before tax is low and that is if you hardly spend anything downroute while you are away on food.
Plus at LGW, which consider themselves bad off.
1.) they earn more than 11,000
2.)Their hourly rate is more and
3.) they get a breakfast alowance on top at alot of their destinations which New Fleet won't."
A couple of corrections, as your post isn't quite accurate.
1) Some LGW have a lower basic than £11K
2) LGW hourly rate is the same as MF.
3) Our breakfast "allowance" is actually a meal. In some hotels, it's breakfast, like it or lump it. Some hotels (mainly short haul) give us a voucher with a value of a set amount. One hotel (AFAIK), gives us a daily "allowance" which we can use for any incidentals during our stay. We don't get cash/money - ever.
I just wanted to clarify this, as wrong info isn't helping.
What we at LGW have that MF won't get, is:
Overtime (extra pay per hour when duty goes beyond 10.5 hrs)
Overnight allowance (the vast sum of £10 per night....)
Personally, I think there will be plenty of applicants. It's up to them (at least the successful ones) to decide whether they want the job or not and whether they can survive on the pay. Performance related pay is a genius invention, which will sort the wheat from the chaff easily.
IIRC, Singapore Airlines (or is it Thai?), give their CC a 2 year contract. If you're not exeptional, that's it. If you're brilliant, you get another 2 year contract. I know this can't be done here due to the law, but it does make sense as it keeps them on their toes, so to speak.
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Why? BA were being unreasonable and would not participate in serious negotiation. They played a nasty trick on us commuters. BA thought they could scare us by threatening to remove our most valuable benefit should we go on strike. By all means, they removed it but good luck getting a deal with our union which has some 10.000 members unless Staff Travel forms part of it. Unite have repeatedly said they will never recommend a proposal which does not include full reinstatement of it. Bassa have also given us reassurance that they will not either. I for one will never accept a proposal which does not include full reinstatement of Staff Travel.
To take industrial action is a democratic right. To punish people for taking industrial action is not. Willie Walsh and his regime seem to think they are above the law. Many of us have been at BA a long time and have great pride in our careers. We have created BA. Look what has happened to this company because of Willie Walsh. Was one airline not enough for him to destroy?
Let's ballot again. I know where I am putting my X.
To take industrial action is a democratic right. To punish people for taking industrial action is not. Willie Walsh and his regime seem to think they are above the law. Many of us have been at BA a long time and have great pride in our careers. We have created BA. Look what has happened to this company because of Willie Walsh. Was one airline not enough for him to destroy?
Let's ballot again. I know where I am putting my X.
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No disrespect for my colleagues at BA, but there are some miserable people working for us as crew who think BA owe them a living, not to mention lazy. Its about time we got some fresh blood in and have a mix of both young, new and experienced crew on board. This is not to say that also alot of our crew are very good at their job, but in my experience there isn't so many of these crew around BA.
Oh, and the job is not all about throwing out the service as quick as poss in order to maximise breaks! I would personally rather spend more time on giving the customer exactly what they deserve then get an extra 5 mins of break time!!!
Bring on MF, can't wait to be part of ONE HAPPY OUTSTANDING TEAM!!!!
Oh, and the job is not all about throwing out the service as quick as poss in order to maximise breaks! I would personally rather spend more time on giving the customer exactly what they deserve then get an extra 5 mins of break time!!!
Bring on MF, can't wait to be part of ONE HAPPY OUTSTANDING TEAM!!!!
Can you blame BA for looking to bring in performance related pay?!! A person on the old contract can give a toss about the customer and still would get an increment each year. So why bother? I'm well excited about MF and can't wait to see it launched and have more motivated crew delivering service excellence to our customers.
This is my own personal view
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Sorry I got some of that wrong MIDLGW.
But breakfast allowance in the form of a voucher is what I meant. So that is worth more than nothing, it converts into food that you don't then have to pay for and £10 a night is worth more than nothing and overtime is worth more than nothing. So you have actually shown that you get alot more than New Fleet from your own posting.
I am sure that you agree that LGW are not paid much.
So therefore I presume you agree that New fleet are not earning much too.
Did you not say in a previous post that you wanted to transfer to LHR where your wife is or I might have mixed you up with someone else from LGW.
Anyway whatever it is that you wish for I do hope it works out for you.
I don't know why but just by saying that I think the starting rate for New Fleet is low somehow I have upset people and everyone seems to want to prove me wrong and say it is fine.
Most of these people are not actually having to ever live on this type of money.
I do agree that this is ok money for someone young living in shared house or with parents and many of you think that is great, lots of great keen youngsters. What I think is good is a nice mix of good profetional experienced crew and youngsters too, but hey. What do I know. I am just one of thoes older dedicated crew that alot of people seem to write off as overpaid and lazy.
But breakfast allowance in the form of a voucher is what I meant. So that is worth more than nothing, it converts into food that you don't then have to pay for and £10 a night is worth more than nothing and overtime is worth more than nothing. So you have actually shown that you get alot more than New Fleet from your own posting.
I am sure that you agree that LGW are not paid much.
So therefore I presume you agree that New fleet are not earning much too.
Did you not say in a previous post that you wanted to transfer to LHR where your wife is or I might have mixed you up with someone else from LGW.
Anyway whatever it is that you wish for I do hope it works out for you.
I don't know why but just by saying that I think the starting rate for New Fleet is low somehow I have upset people and everyone seems to want to prove me wrong and say it is fine.
Most of these people are not actually having to ever live on this type of money.
I do agree that this is ok money for someone young living in shared house or with parents and many of you think that is great, lots of great keen youngsters. What I think is good is a nice mix of good profetional experienced crew and youngsters too, but hey. What do I know. I am just one of thoes older dedicated crew that alot of people seem to write off as overpaid and lazy.
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Ava Hannah
Was hardly a "trick". You were told about what would happen - and it did.
If he/BA had done it in retrospect - some would have more sympathy.
And what about the chants on the Bath Road and other places.
"You can stick your ID90s up your a**e"?
I thought, from that, that ST didn't really matter to you.
If they have acted "above the law", then why haven't the Unions gone to court over it yet?
Yep - so have I, 25 years. We have ALL created and maintained a World-Class standard at BA. So what's your point?
Last I saw, BA was still flying and getting through a massive economic recession DESPITE a certain part of the workforce trying to bugger everything-up.
If you looked further than your own myopic view of the world, you might see that what BA/WW are trying to do is ensure we have a company to work for in the next 5-10 years.
We have ALL lost out in the past 3 years in an attempt to contribute. No pay rises, no bonuses, pay-cuts, unpaid leave, less colleagues within teams - you name it.
If all this was happening during a profit-making period for BA - I and I'm sure others would probably be more supportive. But it isnt.
Have you seen the last two sets of annual financial results?
Are they indicative of a company cutting costs for the sake of shareholder and management profits?
They played a nasty trick on us commuters.
If he/BA had done it in retrospect - some would have more sympathy.
And what about the chants on the Bath Road and other places.
"You can stick your ID90s up your a**e"?
I thought, from that, that ST didn't really matter to you.
Willie Walsh and his regime seem to think they are above the law.
Many of us have been at BA a long time and have great pride in our careers. We have created BA.
Look what has happened to this company because of Willie Walsh. Was one airline not enough for him to destroy?
If you looked further than your own myopic view of the world, you might see that what BA/WW are trying to do is ensure we have a company to work for in the next 5-10 years.
We have ALL lost out in the past 3 years in an attempt to contribute. No pay rises, no bonuses, pay-cuts, unpaid leave, less colleagues within teams - you name it.
If all this was happening during a profit-making period for BA - I and I'm sure others would probably be more supportive. But it isnt.
Have you seen the last two sets of annual financial results?
Are they indicative of a company cutting costs for the sake of shareholder and management profits?
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Ava, it's only a matter of time until you cannot afford to commute, so you will either have to resign from BA or significantly reduce your standard of living. Either way, you will suffer. Striking will make your situation worse, not better. If Unite had accepted the Way Forward Agreement you would have got your staff travel back for commuting.
Blaming Willie Walsh is just a cop-out, both you and Unite are responsible for your situation.
Blaming Willie Walsh is just a cop-out, both you and Unite are responsible for your situation.
Ava Hannah, said:
"BA were unreasonable and would not participate in serious negotiation"
and
"We have created BA!"
The first is such a load of complete rubbish I cannot for a minute understand the mentality of such an idiotic statement.
The second statement shows such blinding ignorance and arrogance - and typifies the 'mentality' that WW is having to contend with.
"BA were unreasonable and would not participate in serious negotiation"
and
"We have created BA!"
The first is such a load of complete rubbish I cannot for a minute understand the mentality of such an idiotic statement.
The second statement shows such blinding ignorance and arrogance - and typifies the 'mentality' that WW is having to contend with.
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MRC1972; Re your question on charter crew. I flew Gatwick - Tenerife - Gatwick with Thomas Cook the other month. How were they ??? Bloody good as a matter of fact and at least better than some BA crew I have flown with. Not only that they were happy to collect up pax rubbish before landing. Ever done that ?? no, thought not !! In saying that I have had the pleasure of flying with some brilliant BA crews, so sad it's come to this.
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the tone of this discussion seems to be dropping. The way to move forward towards a solution is not to throw insults at BA cabin crew or their standards. There are good and bad in all departments.
For those of you that are gloating and delighting please remember that the majority of crew did not back the strike and went to work under very difficult circumstances to contribute just as much as you to the success and survival of the company.
There is now another opportunity for settlement on the table, winding people up will not push them towards accepting! BASSA is doing enough of a job of that on their own.
Who ever said that the best way forward for staff travel would be to accept a deal, make it work, THEN negotiate the return of ST is right. I think it's the only way it will happen.
For those of you that are gloating and delighting please remember that the majority of crew did not back the strike and went to work under very difficult circumstances to contribute just as much as you to the success and survival of the company.
There is now another opportunity for settlement on the table, winding people up will not push them towards accepting! BASSA is doing enough of a job of that on their own.
Who ever said that the best way forward for staff travel would be to accept a deal, make it work, THEN negotiate the return of ST is right. I think it's the only way it will happen.
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beesflyer
BA employ turn around cleaners, BA crew begin collecting rubbish after the first bar round and continue through the flight. If you had a choice of BA or Thomas Cook on the same day at the same time on the same route, who would you choose?
BA employ turn around cleaners, BA crew begin collecting rubbish after the first bar round and continue through the flight. If you had a choice of BA or Thomas Cook on the same day at the same time on the same route, who would you choose?
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BA are giving us existing crew assurances about our future and the idea that they care about us. Where were you when my five year old son passed was suffering from leukemia? Where were you when he passed away? I received nothing but arrogance from you. All you ever cared about was my attendance and when I would be coming back to work. You never gave me the support I needed. I can still remember every single telephone call I had with you. What makes you think that I should believe that you actually care about us?