British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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Think that any crew contemplating taking the rag out of VCC are going to find themselves in very hot water. To start with VCC have a day job to go back to, so they have no axe to grind. They are volunteering because they want to keep BA flying. Thus they have no fear of reporting people if they feel that they are being victimised or bullied, they only have the trip to do and will not be coming into contact with the same crew again. VCC will not roll over and pretend it didn't happen. VCC haven't been tainted by the BASSA brush. Some will be members of Unite or GMB and find it incomprehensible that a union can condone behaving in this way towards its own members and those of other unions.
The repercussions for crew who are accused of bullying are far worse. To start with, BASSA have steadfastly claimed that the only bullying in this whole sorry saga has been by BA management toward cabin crew. To have crew openly turning on people who are volunteers is a bit like beating up charity workers. The publicity backlash will consign BASSA to the outer reaches. For crew accused of bullying, it will be a lot tougher to weasel out of any accusation. The suggestion that this is normal behaviour amongst crew won't wash, neither will accusations of incompetence towards VCC. The comeback will be that these are recently qualified crew and should be treated as such. I wouldn't be surprised to see final written warnings being issued or even dismissals in severe cases.
The repercussions for crew who are accused of bullying are far worse. To start with, BASSA have steadfastly claimed that the only bullying in this whole sorry saga has been by BA management toward cabin crew. To have crew openly turning on people who are volunteers is a bit like beating up charity workers. The publicity backlash will consign BASSA to the outer reaches. For crew accused of bullying, it will be a lot tougher to weasel out of any accusation. The suggestion that this is normal behaviour amongst crew won't wash, neither will accusations of incompetence towards VCC. The comeback will be that these are recently qualified crew and should be treated as such. I wouldn't be surprised to see final written warnings being issued or even dismissals in severe cases.
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Flaws in a perfect storm
Juan Tripp
There are a few wrinkles in the scenario you paint. First of all, there is the assumption that Len McCluskey will become General Secretary. There are a number of candidates for the slot, some of whom have pretty good grass roots coverage, so success is not guaranteed. The problem for BASSA is if they pick the wrong horse. Len is not loved by a lot of folk. Even if Len is elected, my guess is he will want to distance himself from any current dispute unless it is pretty much a gold plated certainty to succeed. So whilst he may have made encouraging noises in the past, given the dispute has been going on so long with little prospect of success, he will probably want to walk away and blame his predecessors for gettng the union into an unwinnable situation.
Whether Mr Tomato gets his show of hands support for continued strike action is immaterial. Any further action will require a new ballot ordered by the union. Again, any new General Secretary will want to make damned sure he/she is backing a winner here. There will be intense scrutiny of the basis for strike action. The last thing a new person wants is to be accused of incompetence in their first few days in the job. So the lawyers will need to pore over the fine print and be able to state categorically that the cause cannot be linked in any way with the previous walkouts. Next is the ticklish issue of getting a mandate. It will be one thing to get a majority from cabin crew for strike action, but if the fiasco of the consultative ballot is repeated, it will throw any strike action in jeapordy. No point in walking out if you have minimal support from your members. Very humiliating for the union if BA is able to run a full operation using only existing crew - i.e Mixed Fleet and current cabin crew. Before Len or anyone else sanctions a ballot, they want to be very certain that the dice are loaded in their favour.
What about Duncan Holley himself ? Again, the man is in a dangerous situation. Whilst the old guard may have tolerated his foibles, there is no guarantee that a new bunch will be supportive. He's not employed by BA, BASSA need to hold elections to fill the current gaps. Even if all the sacked staff go to tribunal and win against BA, the outcome is likely to be a cash settlement, not the job back. So Duncan won't get his job back. Duncan is now associated with failure and failure is not tolerated. He'll be out on his ear.
There are a few wrinkles in the scenario you paint. First of all, there is the assumption that Len McCluskey will become General Secretary. There are a number of candidates for the slot, some of whom have pretty good grass roots coverage, so success is not guaranteed. The problem for BASSA is if they pick the wrong horse. Len is not loved by a lot of folk. Even if Len is elected, my guess is he will want to distance himself from any current dispute unless it is pretty much a gold plated certainty to succeed. So whilst he may have made encouraging noises in the past, given the dispute has been going on so long with little prospect of success, he will probably want to walk away and blame his predecessors for gettng the union into an unwinnable situation.
Whether Mr Tomato gets his show of hands support for continued strike action is immaterial. Any further action will require a new ballot ordered by the union. Again, any new General Secretary will want to make damned sure he/she is backing a winner here. There will be intense scrutiny of the basis for strike action. The last thing a new person wants is to be accused of incompetence in their first few days in the job. So the lawyers will need to pore over the fine print and be able to state categorically that the cause cannot be linked in any way with the previous walkouts. Next is the ticklish issue of getting a mandate. It will be one thing to get a majority from cabin crew for strike action, but if the fiasco of the consultative ballot is repeated, it will throw any strike action in jeapordy. No point in walking out if you have minimal support from your members. Very humiliating for the union if BA is able to run a full operation using only existing crew - i.e Mixed Fleet and current cabin crew. Before Len or anyone else sanctions a ballot, they want to be very certain that the dice are loaded in their favour.
What about Duncan Holley himself ? Again, the man is in a dangerous situation. Whilst the old guard may have tolerated his foibles, there is no guarantee that a new bunch will be supportive. He's not employed by BA, BASSA need to hold elections to fill the current gaps. Even if all the sacked staff go to tribunal and win against BA, the outcome is likely to be a cash settlement, not the job back. So Duncan won't get his job back. Duncan is now associated with failure and failure is not tolerated. He'll be out on his ear.
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Last time I flew with VCC they were all from positions of responsibility in BA and could, for want of a better phrase, look after themselves in the company of crew. I pity any strikers who dare to give them a hard time because they'll be put in their place in no uncertain terms! I'd love to see the likes of Miss M try to intimidate an 18 stone Scottish CSDM! 
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From Lizanne Malone
PS Don't talk to the press on Monday MissM (assuming any of them can be bothered to turn up) or you might find yourself spending more time with your family like Adrian and Graham.
Please can all crew that are attending the meeting on Monday, make their way into the meeting and not talk to any press. This also applies at the end of the meeting . Please do not talk to any press, even if your identity has been protected.
Hold your heads up high and walk in to the meeting and out of the meeting and stand proud. The press will not be allowed into the meeting.In the current climate we must protect everyone. Any press requests should be directed to Duncan Holley Branch Secretary. Thank you and see you all on Monday. Lizanne xxxx
Hold your heads up high and walk in to the meeting and out of the meeting and stand proud. The press will not be allowed into the meeting.In the current climate we must protect everyone. Any press requests should be directed to Duncan Holley Branch Secretary. Thank you and see you all on Monday. Lizanne xxxx
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Col White.
'Beating up charity workers.' What a ridiculous comment and comparison to VCC working with cabin crew.
Instead of antagonising cabin crew, instead of making as much effort as possible to prolong this dispute, Walsh should be searching for a solution. How low can Walsh stoop, and how long before questions are asked about his methods. Will the public backlash be because he is now very openly instigating problems and not solutions.
And should there be VCC members of the GMB or Unite who find it incomprehensible that a union can condone behaving in this way towards its own members and those of other unions, perhaps they should question how, as union members, they can allow themselves to break legitimate industrial action. If/when the shoe is on the other foot, I wonder where condemnation will sit. Let us consider that the last round of cuts and changes were to allow the company to achieve its fight for survival. The next stage is consolidation of three businesses. Pilots and cabin crew should be relatively unscathed whilst IAG maintains its current aircraft fleet, perhaps engineers, but elsewhere?
'Beating up charity workers.' What a ridiculous comment and comparison to VCC working with cabin crew.
Instead of antagonising cabin crew, instead of making as much effort as possible to prolong this dispute, Walsh should be searching for a solution. How low can Walsh stoop, and how long before questions are asked about his methods. Will the public backlash be because he is now very openly instigating problems and not solutions.
And should there be VCC members of the GMB or Unite who find it incomprehensible that a union can condone behaving in this way towards its own members and those of other unions, perhaps they should question how, as union members, they can allow themselves to break legitimate industrial action. If/when the shoe is on the other foot, I wonder where condemnation will sit. Let us consider that the last round of cuts and changes were to allow the company to achieve its fight for survival. The next stage is consolidation of three businesses. Pilots and cabin crew should be relatively unscathed whilst IAG maintains its current aircraft fleet, perhaps engineers, but elsewhere?
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Instead of antagonising cabin crew, instead of making as much effort as possible to prolong this dispute, Walsh should be searching for a solution. How low can Walsh stoop, and how long before questions are asked about his methods. Will the public backlash be because he is now very openly instigating problems and not solutions.
And should there be VCC members of the GMB or Unite who find it incomprehensible that a union can condone behaving in this way towards its own members and those of other unions, perhaps they should question how, as union members, they can allow themselves to break legitimate industrial action.
If/when the shoe is on the other foot, I wonder where condemnation will sit. Let us consider that the last round of cuts and changes were to allow the company to achieve its fight for survival. The next stage is consolidation of three businesses. Pilots and cabin crew should be relatively unscathed whilst IAG maintains its current aircraft fleet, perhaps engineers, but elsewhere?
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Instead of antagonising cabin crew, instead of making as much effort as possible to prolong this dispute, Walsh should be searching for a solution. How low can Walsh stoop, and how long before questions are asked about his methods. Will the public backlash be because he is now very openly instigating problems and not solutions.
It would seem that Unite will ignore them, as they've said recently that there will be no strike ballot while current negotiations continue.
You may not like it, but everyone sees BASSA as the problem not the solution.
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Don't speak to them unless it's security or operational related. That's what I do with our pilots and strikebreaking crew and will continue to do so.
Examples of harassment and bullying may include:
-displaying pictures, graffiti,flags or emblems which could reasonably be considered to be offensive;
-isolation of an individual or group of individuals and non-co-operation at work or exclusion from work-related social activities;
There are others which could equally apply, these two seemed to be the most appropriate. Miss M I would caution you to think about your intended behaviour as it would be a shame to lose your job in an ill considered fit of pique. Remember that not all VCC are easily intimidated and may well be watching for the sort of bullying behaviours you have stated here that you both do now and intend to keep on doing.
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Juan Togogh, well spotted. It's one thing to 'subtly' carry out the kind of thing MissM mentions (most pilots wouldn't notice if she was 'ignoring' them or not) but to advertise the fact on a forum as public as this... 
Posters here should realise that software exists to capture all postings made, even if deleted.
There are many who have lost their jobs because of unwise internet activity, or have been rejected during recruitment because of their visagelivre page.
Posters here should realise that software exists to capture all postings made, even if deleted.
There are many who have lost their jobs because of unwise internet activity, or have been rejected during recruitment because of their visagelivre page.
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most pilots wouldn't notice if she was 'ignoring' them or not)
As long as she does her job professionally that's all I'm interested in, and to be fair to the strikers I haven't seen anything else.
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As VCC myself, even I have to agree that rostering BASSA members with VCC is extremely antagonistic. Willy Walsh seeks one of 2 outcomes - The most likely being a Duncan Holley led tantrum that leads the diehards to slaughter or outcome 2, a new era of pacifism born of the realisation that BASSA have been well and truly outmanoeuvred.
For the second outcome to be beneficial to BA it needs to neuter the cowardly yes men that are the DOMs, because operationally, all they seem to do is reinforce the rigid nature of CC's industrial agreements even when all crew are happy to work to scheme limits.
For the second outcome to be beneficial to BA it needs to neuter the cowardly yes men that are the DOMs, because operationally, all they seem to do is reinforce the rigid nature of CC's industrial agreements even when all crew are happy to work to scheme limits.
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Since most , if not all Crew Managers are now trained as VCC's,ans Bassa die-hards are proud to state that they do not know, or need to know their manager I would like to sit in on the debrief when one of them is invited back to the office, having just attempted to bully/harrass their own manager.
They will then see exactly how clearly their manager understands EG's 102 and 901
They will then see exactly how clearly their manager understands EG's 102 and 901
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PC767
Ahem... why should BA be providing the solution. You make the common BASSA error of expecting everyone else to provide the answers. If BASSA percieve there to be a problem, then surely duty behoves them to actively work to provide solutions rather than sit around on their collective posteriors and reject any ideas from others. I note that in the most recent discussions, it sounds like Tony Woodley has been endeavouring to find common ground, but does so in the full knowledge that BASSA may throw yet another hissy fit and reject any deal he has managed to put together.
The BASSA attitude is very reminiscent of Violet Elizabeth Bott (Richmal Crompton's Just William books) - a child who, if she couldn't get her own way would threaten to 'scream and scream until I am sick' , followed by the telling phrase ' I can, you know'
Regarding cuts in other areas, you are presumably unaware that in 2009 there were significant numbers of A scale and other staff who took VS. My own department had to shed 8% of the non-managerial staff, and we were lucky it was not higher. At the same time we have had a pay freeze for the last two years. This was done with the agreement of the relevant TUs, one of which was Unite. The workload hasn't diminished. Because of the cuts in management numbers a lot of supervisors have now got larger roles, but no increase in pay. Unlike getting CSDs to work the cabin, this means that supervisors are having more responsibilty placed on them.
As far as the future and any impacts from the Iberia merger goes, there are a number of factors to consider. If the merger follows the same lines as the AF/KLM one, the two companies would be kept separate, but co-operate extensively on purchasing and revenue opportunities. In the event of a full blown consolidation, it would come down to which area can provide the requisite level of skills and expertise at the most efficient cost. I don't have a problem with that. I'd suggest that cabin crew ae an area that should be worried about consolidation as on the basis that I have outlined, I can see that Iberia crews plus obviously Mixed fleet and potentially LGW would come out as the cheapest. LHR 'heritage' crews are waaay too expensive.You are probably also unaware of the degree of outsourcing that has gone on - a number of the old expensive UK based admin functions were put out to contract and are now undertaken in India.
Finally, my comment about charity workers ... yes, it was designed to provoke a response. But there is a more truth in it than you care to acknowledge. VCC are working as crew because they want the airline to continue operating. They are not getting shed loads of extra payments and will have the day job waiting for them when they finish. So it's above and beyond their normal role and in that respect is no different to charity work. It's doing something for the good of others (and admittedly also for themselves) in endeavouring to secure BA's future. A selfless attitude. The diehard BASSA folk may care to ponder that.
Ahem... why should BA be providing the solution. You make the common BASSA error of expecting everyone else to provide the answers. If BASSA percieve there to be a problem, then surely duty behoves them to actively work to provide solutions rather than sit around on their collective posteriors and reject any ideas from others. I note that in the most recent discussions, it sounds like Tony Woodley has been endeavouring to find common ground, but does so in the full knowledge that BASSA may throw yet another hissy fit and reject any deal he has managed to put together.
The BASSA attitude is very reminiscent of Violet Elizabeth Bott (Richmal Crompton's Just William books) - a child who, if she couldn't get her own way would threaten to 'scream and scream until I am sick' , followed by the telling phrase ' I can, you know'
Regarding cuts in other areas, you are presumably unaware that in 2009 there were significant numbers of A scale and other staff who took VS. My own department had to shed 8% of the non-managerial staff, and we were lucky it was not higher. At the same time we have had a pay freeze for the last two years. This was done with the agreement of the relevant TUs, one of which was Unite. The workload hasn't diminished. Because of the cuts in management numbers a lot of supervisors have now got larger roles, but no increase in pay. Unlike getting CSDs to work the cabin, this means that supervisors are having more responsibilty placed on them.
As far as the future and any impacts from the Iberia merger goes, there are a number of factors to consider. If the merger follows the same lines as the AF/KLM one, the two companies would be kept separate, but co-operate extensively on purchasing and revenue opportunities. In the event of a full blown consolidation, it would come down to which area can provide the requisite level of skills and expertise at the most efficient cost. I don't have a problem with that. I'd suggest that cabin crew ae an area that should be worried about consolidation as on the basis that I have outlined, I can see that Iberia crews plus obviously Mixed fleet and potentially LGW would come out as the cheapest. LHR 'heritage' crews are waaay too expensive.You are probably also unaware of the degree of outsourcing that has gone on - a number of the old expensive UK based admin functions were put out to contract and are now undertaken in India.
Finally, my comment about charity workers ... yes, it was designed to provoke a response. But there is a more truth in it than you care to acknowledge. VCC are working as crew because they want the airline to continue operating. They are not getting shed loads of extra payments and will have the day job waiting for them when they finish. So it's above and beyond their normal role and in that respect is no different to charity work. It's doing something for the good of others (and admittedly also for themselves) in endeavouring to secure BA's future. A selfless attitude. The diehard BASSA folk may care to ponder that.
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Instead of antagonising cabin crew, instead of making as much effort as possible to prolong this dispute, Walsh should be searching for a solution.
So what would that soulution be PC767?
So what would that soulution be PC767?
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Colonel White,
Do you know for a fact that Ibearia crew are cheaper than BA crew?
Just asking because I was always told that Ibearia were among the best paid in Europe and I beleive they are, even more, unionised than BA crew.
I was also under the impression that they have even more restrictive working practices that BA crew do too.
Do you know for a fact that Ibearia crew are cheaper than BA crew?
Just asking because I was always told that Ibearia were among the best paid in Europe and I beleive they are, even more, unionised than BA crew.
I was also under the impression that they have even more restrictive working practices that BA crew do too.
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According to a 'Times' article a while ago Iberia cabin crew are paid an average of 50k euro pa and Iberia pilots 197K euro pa (if I recall correctly).
Right engine is correct with his suggestion number one. 'The most likely being a Duncan Holley led tantrum that leads the diehards to slaughter,' and this has been the case from day one. I'm not a fan of the Bassa leadership - they should have seen along time ago that this was a contrived dispute. BA offers, generally good, but always with a 'low baller' designed to render the offer unacceptable. It has been a game. Walsh hasn't wanted a resolution, and still doesn't. To be frank Walsh currently has what he wanted with Op Colombus, and unionised crew have no protection. A better result than he hoped for. I'll happily give you the news that the Bassa leadership are seriously wanting.
When it came to dealing with the cabin crew, saving money was a bonus. Walsh had two objectives. 1) Break the largest union in BA, not just Bassa but Unite and create a several opposing teams culture (despite a one team mantra). And how it has worked. Different departments in Unite either distrust or dispise each other. Divide and conquer. 2) Implement Op Colombus, devised during record profits with no sign of a world recession about to take hold.
Bassa have never said no to change, nor to savings. Their dispute has always been about having some imput into how both were achieved. Walsh had a plan in Op Colombus and has only offered poisoned chalices as a compromise. I want to do my bit for BA, I'm open to change and savings - the majority of us are - but I'm not happy to sign my own warrant of execution. I feel like a worthless burden to the company I have been loyal to, and now new fleet has commenced I only work to grab as much as I can for as long as I can and stuff the rest. (Perhaps I should join Balpa!)
Taken from a Bassa note. here are some facts to demonstrate how hard BA are trying to resolve matters.
1 ... (for 20 minutes) is the number of days that CEO, Willie Walsh has ever met your cabin crew union representatives on any subject, in approaching two years of dispute.
0 is the number of words he has spoken to those reps.
0 is the number of times Chairman, Martin Broughton has ever met or spoken to any cabin crew representative in his life.
0 is the number of times that Silla Maizey, the Director responsible for cabin crew, has ever met or spoken to any cabin crew union representative.
0 is the number of times that all the members of the board have ever met, spoken or indeed uttered a single solitary word, to any of your cabin crew union representatives.
0 is the number of times Head of cabin crew, Bill Francis has spoken to or contacted any cabin crew union representative to try and solve the dispute, either in person or by phone, since February, some 6 months ago.
Right engine is correct with his suggestion number one. 'The most likely being a Duncan Holley led tantrum that leads the diehards to slaughter,' and this has been the case from day one. I'm not a fan of the Bassa leadership - they should have seen along time ago that this was a contrived dispute. BA offers, generally good, but always with a 'low baller' designed to render the offer unacceptable. It has been a game. Walsh hasn't wanted a resolution, and still doesn't. To be frank Walsh currently has what he wanted with Op Colombus, and unionised crew have no protection. A better result than he hoped for. I'll happily give you the news that the Bassa leadership are seriously wanting.
When it came to dealing with the cabin crew, saving money was a bonus. Walsh had two objectives. 1) Break the largest union in BA, not just Bassa but Unite and create a several opposing teams culture (despite a one team mantra). And how it has worked. Different departments in Unite either distrust or dispise each other. Divide and conquer. 2) Implement Op Colombus, devised during record profits with no sign of a world recession about to take hold.
Bassa have never said no to change, nor to savings. Their dispute has always been about having some imput into how both were achieved. Walsh had a plan in Op Colombus and has only offered poisoned chalices as a compromise. I want to do my bit for BA, I'm open to change and savings - the majority of us are - but I'm not happy to sign my own warrant of execution. I feel like a worthless burden to the company I have been loyal to, and now new fleet has commenced I only work to grab as much as I can for as long as I can and stuff the rest. (Perhaps I should join Balpa!)
Taken from a Bassa note. here are some facts to demonstrate how hard BA are trying to resolve matters.
1 ... (for 20 minutes) is the number of days that CEO, Willie Walsh has ever met your cabin crew union representatives on any subject, in approaching two years of dispute.
0 is the number of words he has spoken to those reps.
0 is the number of times Chairman, Martin Broughton has ever met or spoken to any cabin crew representative in his life.
0 is the number of times that Silla Maizey, the Director responsible for cabin crew, has ever met or spoken to any cabin crew union representative.
0 is the number of times that all the members of the board have ever met, spoken or indeed uttered a single solitary word, to any of your cabin crew union representatives.
0 is the number of times Head of cabin crew, Bill Francis has spoken to or contacted any cabin crew union representative to try and solve the dispute, either in person or by phone, since February, some 6 months ago.
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Okay, I'll bite...
Remember, this is about cost savings, you have to give something. It's not about shuffling the same money around in a different way to give the illusion on savings. I've yet to see any significant low-ballers in any BA offer, bar the BASSA imposed one of demanding cast iron guarantees on everything, something nobody else in BA has got.
Sorry but thats straight from the BASSA mouthpiece. You've been offered deal after deal after deal after deal, extension after extension to the negotiating deadline (30th June2009 you'll recall). The only people who thought it was a game were BASSA, who tried to talk down the clock and stonewall BA.
BASSA have handed him the whole of Columbus on a plate through their ineptitude, and they surrendered protection of the crew when they withdrew from the facilities agreement with BA. And if you are short of reps why do they keep goading BA into suspending them with displays of absenteeism and deliberate provocation?
Breaking the union has been a consequence of BASSAs intransigence. If they cannot be worked with (undoubtedly Walshs preferred option) then what other option does he realistically have? The objective has been, and has always been, to save money. The opposing teams culture may have something to do with your branch of the union telling pilots they were in managements pockets, accusing engineers of maintaining planes badly, calling Waterside staff uselss latte drinkers and so on and so forth. Your union has created this hostility, yet still they blame others for their own mistakes.
No negotiation on a show of hands ring any bells?
Sadly thats entirely untrue. It's been about reducing the amount of savings in the short term and having them returned in the long term.
The offers have included at least one with no mixed-fleet. You didn't even vote on it. As I said earlier, you have to give something, the offers aren't going to be your taste whichever path you choose.
Unfortunately if crew want to have a future in BA they have to make themselves relevant to the company. By going out on strike and showing how easily they can be replaced by lower paid workers they are making themselves irrelevant. It's ironic to compare your sense of worthlessness with the sense of liberation non-union members enjoy now they've signed the new contract. Perhaps it's too much bad news and conspiracy theory from Unite which is driving your sentiment?
Taken from a Bassa note. here are some facts to demonstrate how hard BA are trying to resolve matters.
1 ... (for 20 minutes) is the number of days that CEO, Willie Walsh has ever met your cabin crew union representatives on any subject, in approaching two years of dispute.
It's not Walshs job to meet Duncan Holley, Bill Francis can do that. The CEO is not here to massage the ego of BASSA reps who want to play at being the big shot. And why should the CEO waste valuable time when the two unions can't even sit together?
0 is the number of words he has spoken to those reps.
See above
0 is the number of times Chairman, Martin Broughton has ever met or spoken to any cabin crew representative in his life.
See above, but substitute Chairman for CEO. DH has an attitude problem, he thinks the world of BA revolves around him.
0 is the number of times that Silla Maizey, the Director responsible for cabin crew, has ever met or spoken to any cabin crew union representative.
Perhaps because the union refuses to discuss change? Whats the point in meeting if nothing ever happens? Bill Francis can do the talking for her anyway.
0 is the number of times that all the members of the board have ever met, spoken or indeed uttered a single solitary word, to any of your cabin crew union representatives.
Again, why should the board speak to BASSA reps? It's not their job!
0 is the number of times Head of cabin crew, Bill Francis has spoken to or contacted any cabin crew union representative to try and solve the dispute, either in person or by phone, since February, some 6 months ago.
Thats because Bills talking to Unite. He knows that's where the solution lies.
I'm afraid all BASSAs points have highlighted is that their reps are pissed off because they haven't been invited to play at the big boys table. The problem is you don't get a default right to play there, you have to be able to bring something to the game. They can't bring anything but petulant behaviour so they stay outside on the naughty step while Unite and BA try to thrash a solution out.
Originally Posted by PC767
BA offers, generally good, but always with a 'low baller' designed to render the offer unacceptable.
It has been a game. Walsh hasn't wanted a resolution, and still doesn't.
To be frank Walsh currently has what he wanted with Op Colombus, and unionised crew have no protection. A better result than he hoped for. I'll happily give you the news that the Bassa leadership are seriously wanting.
When it came to dealing with the cabin crew, saving money was a bonus. Walsh had two objectives. 1) Break the largest union in BA, not just Bassa but Unite and create a several opposing teams culture (despite a one team mantra). And how it has worked. Different departments in Unite either distrust or dispise each other. Divide and conquer. 2) Implement Op Colombus, devised during record profits with no sign of a world recession about to take hold.
Bassa have never said no to change, nor to savings.
Their dispute has always been about having some imput into how both were achieved.
Walsh had a plan in Op Colombus and has only offered poisoned chalices as a compromise.
I feel like a worthless burden to the company I have been loyal to, and now new fleet has commenced I only work to grab as much as I can for as long as I can and stuff the rest. (Perhaps I should join Balpa!)
Taken from a Bassa note. here are some facts to demonstrate how hard BA are trying to resolve matters.
1 ... (for 20 minutes) is the number of days that CEO, Willie Walsh has ever met your cabin crew union representatives on any subject, in approaching two years of dispute.
It's not Walshs job to meet Duncan Holley, Bill Francis can do that. The CEO is not here to massage the ego of BASSA reps who want to play at being the big shot. And why should the CEO waste valuable time when the two unions can't even sit together?
0 is the number of words he has spoken to those reps.
See above
0 is the number of times Chairman, Martin Broughton has ever met or spoken to any cabin crew representative in his life.
See above, but substitute Chairman for CEO. DH has an attitude problem, he thinks the world of BA revolves around him.
0 is the number of times that Silla Maizey, the Director responsible for cabin crew, has ever met or spoken to any cabin crew union representative.
Perhaps because the union refuses to discuss change? Whats the point in meeting if nothing ever happens? Bill Francis can do the talking for her anyway.
0 is the number of times that all the members of the board have ever met, spoken or indeed uttered a single solitary word, to any of your cabin crew union representatives.
Again, why should the board speak to BASSA reps? It's not their job!
0 is the number of times Head of cabin crew, Bill Francis has spoken to or contacted any cabin crew union representative to try and solve the dispute, either in person or by phone, since February, some 6 months ago.
Thats because Bills talking to Unite. He knows that's where the solution lies.
I'm afraid all BASSAs points have highlighted is that their reps are pissed off because they haven't been invited to play at the big boys table. The problem is you don't get a default right to play there, you have to be able to bring something to the game. They can't bring anything but petulant behaviour so they stay outside on the naughty step while Unite and BA try to thrash a solution out.
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Maybe Duncan has another option to siding with Len McClunkey......
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/money/244711/Sun-City-Market-report-All-the-latest-business-news.html
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/money/244711/Sun-City-Market-report-All-the-latest-business-news.html
AN extremist hoping to run the Unite union has vowed to ground BRITISH AIRWAYS by taking ALL staff on strike.
Left-wing Jerry Hicks told Sun City the current Unite leadership had not been tough enough in the battle with BA boss Willie Walsh.
And he vowed to "bring matters to a head" if voted in this December - by extending the cabin crew dispute to all members, such as baggage handlers. He said: "Seventy members have been suspended by BA, 13 have been sacked.
"This is no longer just about changing cabin crew terms and conditions. It's about busting a union."
He continued: "It needs to be brought to a head, to a conclusion.
"With the members' backing I would extend balloting beyond the cabin crew."
Mr Hicks claimed BA needs to realise that "browbeating" workers into submission may hand them victory - but would de-motivate staff. He is one of four contenders to replace joint heads Derek Simpson and Tony Woodley.
Unite has threatened another Christmas strike in a bid to bring the company back to the negotiating table.
British Airways yesterday revealed passenger numbers were flat in August, at 3.2million.
The airline also unveiled its first new long-haul aircraft for 11 YEARS - a £200million Boeing 777.
Left-wing Jerry Hicks told Sun City the current Unite leadership had not been tough enough in the battle with BA boss Willie Walsh.
And he vowed to "bring matters to a head" if voted in this December - by extending the cabin crew dispute to all members, such as baggage handlers. He said: "Seventy members have been suspended by BA, 13 have been sacked.
"This is no longer just about changing cabin crew terms and conditions. It's about busting a union."
He continued: "It needs to be brought to a head, to a conclusion.
"With the members' backing I would extend balloting beyond the cabin crew."
Mr Hicks claimed BA needs to realise that "browbeating" workers into submission may hand them victory - but would de-motivate staff. He is one of four contenders to replace joint heads Derek Simpson and Tony Woodley.
Unite has threatened another Christmas strike in a bid to bring the company back to the negotiating table.
British Airways yesterday revealed passenger numbers were flat in August, at 3.2million.
The airline also unveiled its first new long-haul aircraft for 11 YEARS - a £200million Boeing 777.
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Thats nice of Mr Hicks. I guess nobody has told him it would be illegal to bring outher Unite members out on a secondary strike, assuming any of them wanted to.
After reading the article from the Sun it is plainly obvious that this was when Mr Hick's world stopped, so is probably unaware that legislation exists stopping this type of action!
