British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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I have not openly fibbed the colour yellow for the flowers was chosen as a peacflul gesture lost on this forum
You are correct in stating the colour yellow sorn by crew was shosen as a solidarily gesture for sacked and suspended crew.....
I did see a crew member who had NOT lost staff travel and openly dispeses bassa in T5 both the crew member and the partner were wearing Yellow.. going on staff travell what a conicidence.. you see we can all read into something if we wish.
Yellow flowers Yesterday sign of peace
Yellow clothers sign of solidarity...
You are correct in stating the colour yellow sorn by crew was shosen as a solidarily gesture for sacked and suspended crew.....
I did see a crew member who had NOT lost staff travel and openly dispeses bassa in T5 both the crew member and the partner were wearing Yellow.. going on staff travell what a conicidence.. you see we can all read into something if we wish.
Yellow flowers Yesterday sign of peace
Yellow clothers sign of solidarity...
I'm not reading anything into anything. I'm repeating on here what has been said elsewhere by striking crewmembers. The yellow thing was not ever solely about respecting the dead. It has been hijacked, openly and by their own admission, in order to make a political point about an aspect of this dispute. Unite were handing out yellow pens. No-one has yet claimed they are now carrying around a yellow pen in memoriam of the fallen of the manchester disaster. However a good many have, on forums which I'm sure you've got access to, claimed to be carrying it in order to identify one another as strikers so any claim that this was nothing more than a peaceful act of remembrance are long since discredited - by the mouths of the striking crew doing the discrediting - not by my interpretation.
Again I say, it sullies what might otherwise have been a fair and fitting memorial.
MrB
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dave
You cannot be serious. If the flower thing was about respect for the deceased in the Manchester accident:
1. Why choose the colour yellow? White is a much more appropriate colour
2. Why didn't the minute silence happen on the actual anniversary?
3. What does the Manchester accident have to do with solidarity towards suspended and sacked crew?
Yes, I'm still angry about this and I will "rant" if I so wish as long as I stick to the rules of the forum. The whole "show" yesterday was a disgrace, plain and simple.
You cannot be serious. If the flower thing was about respect for the deceased in the Manchester accident:
1. Why choose the colour yellow? White is a much more appropriate colour
2. Why didn't the minute silence happen on the actual anniversary?
3. What does the Manchester accident have to do with solidarity towards suspended and sacked crew?
Yes, I'm still angry about this and I will "rant" if I so wish as long as I stick to the rules of the forum. The whole "show" yesterday was a disgrace, plain and simple.
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From BASSA
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BASSA > Latest News
Branch meeting Kempton Park 6th September, 11am - Will be all yellow!
Sep 1st, 2010 by admin
A member has suggested that we dedicate our meeting to our sacked and suspended colleagues.
As a symbol of our solidarity with them, we would ask that you consider wearing either an item of yellow clothing, a yellow ribbon or a yellow flower.
All the yellow flowers will be collected at the end of the meeting and taken to Manchester, where they will then be placed as a tribute, on the memorial for the crew and passengers that lost their lives in the Manchester air disaster.
We look forward to seeing there...In yellow!
Why are they wearing yellow again?
<< Back
BASSA > Latest News
Branch meeting Kempton Park 6th September, 11am - Will be all yellow!
Sep 1st, 2010 by admin
A member has suggested that we dedicate our meeting to our sacked and suspended colleagues.As a symbol of our solidarity with them, we would ask that you consider wearing either an item of yellow clothing, a yellow ribbon or a yellow flower.
All the yellow flowers will be collected at the end of the meeting and taken to Manchester, where they will then be placed as a tribute, on the memorial for the crew and passengers that lost their lives in the Manchester air disaster.
We look forward to seeing there...In yellow!
Why are they wearing yellow again?
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Thanks for keeping us updated Timothy Claypole.
I just can't get my head around the fact that these people want bookings, for the company that pays their wages, to go down.
It just sums up, for me, why I came to work and why I want to distance myself from Bassa as far away as possible.
I honestly am starting to wish people like that poster, do get the chance to strike!! They deserve anything comming their way.
However I really hope that those crew, that have mistakenly trusted the union and got themselves tangled up in this, see the light and realise that striking or just threatening to strike is a foolish and damaging thing to do.
I just can't get my head around the fact that these people want bookings, for the company that pays their wages, to go down.
It just sums up, for me, why I came to work and why I want to distance myself from Bassa as far away as possible.
I honestly am starting to wish people like that poster, do get the chance to strike!! They deserve anything comming their way.
However I really hope that those crew, that have mistakenly trusted the union and got themselves tangled up in this, see the light and realise that striking or just threatening to strike is a foolish and damaging thing to do.
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If the yellow and the flowers were an unconditional act of rememberance then I would applaud it. The shameless, shallow, cynical hijack of the memory of the poor souls that lost their lives as a cheap political stunt leaves me ashamed to count the participants as colleagues. Dreadful behaviour that leads me to wonder where it will all end.
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dave3
Why didn't Bassa just pay respect to the dead in a simple undemonstrative way (without all this yellow stuff to distract from the message) and instead allow that respect to become confused with Bassa union business? Any decent and thoughtful organisation would not allow the two things to mingle in the way that has happened. Conflating the fate of the dead with that of those affected by an industrial dispute (sacked, suspended or otherwise) was never going to win Bassa any friends. The fact that Bassa didn't see that is surely the question you need to be asking yourself.
Last edited by mrpony; 7th Sep 2010 at 12:28.
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It seems fairly obvious that this was a rather cynical attempt at trying to show that the BASSA diehards actually care about someone other than themselves. Despite the lengthy description from dave3, it failed.
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I have to agree totally with Bettygirl, I really cannot get my head around why any individual would want to wish damage and loss of business to their employer. If this continues who do they think is going to pay their wages?
I guess it is now evident that other than the strikers vs BA Backers we now clearly have those of us that work FOR the company and those that work AGAINST it. Surely it's one thing to go on strike and stand up for your beliefs but to actually encourage reckless damage to the business just beggars belief!!!
I guess it is now evident that other than the strikers vs BA Backers we now clearly have those of us that work FOR the company and those that work AGAINST it. Surely it's one thing to go on strike and stand up for your beliefs but to actually encourage reckless damage to the business just beggars belief!!!
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These barriers and obstacles included recruiting current and past employees to form a team of strike-breakers, supporting the creation of a yellow union called the Professional Cabin Crew Council,
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I know what my intentions were and the thousand plus other Bassa members at the meeting and our intentions were peaceful and honest
Can I ask what did you all do off this site to remember your collegues that died in this disaster....nothing just made 5+5 into 100 out of the good intentions of others., Posters on this thread didnt even know that Airtours had become part of British Airways and that crew at that meeting knew some that perished.. shame on you all
Can I ask what did you all do off this site to remember your collegues that died in this disaster....nothing just made 5+5 into 100 out of the good intentions of others., Posters on this thread didnt even know that Airtours had become part of British Airways and that crew at that meeting knew some that perished.. shame on you all
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Oh dave,
Give it a rest. The typical BASSA, "shame on you" mentality (is that really the last line of argumentative defence?). Slight sidetrack but here's a newsflash for you - when pro-BASSA posters say "shame on you" it shows a lack of willingness or, dare I suggest, ability to engage the argument head on with logic. It's the same tantrum ridden debating style that plagues the "closed" forums elsewhere. Furthermore, you'll be surprised to learn that your opprobrium carries little clout with those outside the back-slapping cabal so many of you seem to inhabit. You could argue the same in reverse I'm sure, the difference being that those in the opposing camp are measurably more numerous than you and seem to reflect the wider public opinion also. Is it that BASSA are the only sane voice in the world and the rest of us are mad, or perhaps, on the weight of logic alone, that it is they that suffer under the delusion that only they possess the truth. A tad messianic perhaps?
So, anyway, once again please explain the yellow pens and all the posts on crewforum and the BASSA forum talking about how this is in remembrance of the sacked and suspended if you would. Thus far all you've done is accuse us on here of twisting your intentions. Now that may be true of you and some you know individually but it's plainly clear that BASSA's intentions were utterly different. Yellow pens, I mean come on, really? That's a fitting memorial for the dead of the airtours disaster isn't it? Please.
Furthermore, who's to say we, collectively or individually will not remember those lost in the disaster. Everyone elects to remember in their own way - not everyone, for example gathers at a cenotaph or war memorial each year. Also, if you want to try and assert that you hold the moral high ground in relation to others, perhaps you might have chosen to remember the disaster on the day of it occuring not when it happened to coincide with a loud, robust union meeting some 15 days after the anniversary.
You simply can't argue that the two aren't connected when all good evidence points to the contrary.
MrB
Give it a rest. The typical BASSA, "shame on you" mentality (is that really the last line of argumentative defence?). Slight sidetrack but here's a newsflash for you - when pro-BASSA posters say "shame on you" it shows a lack of willingness or, dare I suggest, ability to engage the argument head on with logic. It's the same tantrum ridden debating style that plagues the "closed" forums elsewhere. Furthermore, you'll be surprised to learn that your opprobrium carries little clout with those outside the back-slapping cabal so many of you seem to inhabit. You could argue the same in reverse I'm sure, the difference being that those in the opposing camp are measurably more numerous than you and seem to reflect the wider public opinion also. Is it that BASSA are the only sane voice in the world and the rest of us are mad, or perhaps, on the weight of logic alone, that it is they that suffer under the delusion that only they possess the truth. A tad messianic perhaps?
So, anyway, once again please explain the yellow pens and all the posts on crewforum and the BASSA forum talking about how this is in remembrance of the sacked and suspended if you would. Thus far all you've done is accuse us on here of twisting your intentions. Now that may be true of you and some you know individually but it's plainly clear that BASSA's intentions were utterly different. Yellow pens, I mean come on, really? That's a fitting memorial for the dead of the airtours disaster isn't it? Please.
Furthermore, who's to say we, collectively or individually will not remember those lost in the disaster. Everyone elects to remember in their own way - not everyone, for example gathers at a cenotaph or war memorial each year. Also, if you want to try and assert that you hold the moral high ground in relation to others, perhaps you might have chosen to remember the disaster on the day of it occuring not when it happened to coincide with a loud, robust union meeting some 15 days after the anniversary.
You simply can't argue that the two aren't connected when all good evidence points to the contrary.
MrB
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I actualy attended the memorial service.. u have all decided we think we have the moral high ground by the vile comments on here.. nothing more to add other than we know what our intentions were make of it what you will and Im sure it will all be bad...again shame on you all
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ChicoG
I don't think it was cynical. Just really really bad strategic judgement. Bassa have never demonstrated any ability to think strategically - Dorkan's battlefield analogies are an ironic reminder of this. By alluding to real wars where real people died and the world was shaped he juxtaposes Bassa's rather pitiful little skirmishes about serving some meals or closing some blinds in a terribly self defeating way. He wasn't being cynical when he drew the analogies just displaying incredibly bad judgement. Same goes with the yellow. Terrible judgement bordering on suicidal stupidity.
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That's all you've got? "shame on you all"?
No logic, no rebuttal, no debate. Why is it that nigh-on nobody can come on here with a cogent argument for the pro-BASSA side of the dispute? Or is the answer to that question contained within itself?
Believe it or not dave, I'm not on here waiting to attempt to belittle and shoot down the opposing point of view. Indeed, I'm prepared to have my opinion changed if the evidence merits it. It seems to me however that therein lies the problem. You and your ilk never bring evidence, merely rhetoric. You elect to avoid the difficult questions and merely bang the same rhetorical drum time and time again.
For the sake of fun, I'll ask you again. If it was merely an act of remembrance (regardless of how you paid your respects, at the memorial or otherwise - for which, I respect you, incidentally) why did Unite think handing out yellow pens would add to the solemnity of that act? Or was it, as most suspect, merely hijacking a very sad event and using it for political ends? Genuinely, I would like to know how those two issues are merely remembrance rather than union politicking on the back of remembrance. Shall we see how people refer to them in the briefing rooms?
For what it's worth, I don't doubt your sincerity but to claim the same for others on your side is dubious at best.
MrB
No logic, no rebuttal, no debate. Why is it that nigh-on nobody can come on here with a cogent argument for the pro-BASSA side of the dispute? Or is the answer to that question contained within itself?
Believe it or not dave, I'm not on here waiting to attempt to belittle and shoot down the opposing point of view. Indeed, I'm prepared to have my opinion changed if the evidence merits it. It seems to me however that therein lies the problem. You and your ilk never bring evidence, merely rhetoric. You elect to avoid the difficult questions and merely bang the same rhetorical drum time and time again.
For the sake of fun, I'll ask you again. If it was merely an act of remembrance (regardless of how you paid your respects, at the memorial or otherwise - for which, I respect you, incidentally) why did Unite think handing out yellow pens would add to the solemnity of that act? Or was it, as most suspect, merely hijacking a very sad event and using it for political ends? Genuinely, I would like to know how those two issues are merely remembrance rather than union politicking on the back of remembrance. Shall we see how people refer to them in the briefing rooms?
For what it's worth, I don't doubt your sincerity but to claim the same for others on your side is dubious at best.
MrB
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I actualy attended the memorial service.. u have all decided we think we have the moral high ground by the vile comments on here.. nothing more to add other than we know what our intentions were make of it what you will and Im sure it will all be bad...again shame on you all
MrB
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Dave3,
Surely you can see the conflict of interest and the mixed messages that BASSA were sending regarding the yellow flowers. On the one hand, it was in support of those that have been suspended or sacked, possibly as a result of their own behaviour. Then all of a sudden, those same flowers were in memory to those that lost their lives in a tragic accident. It just doesn't gel. I have no problem with BASSA members remembering those involved on that dreadful day but it needed to be completely separate from any union business. Off the top of my head, maybe white ribbons in support of colleagues during the meeting and then once all union business was concluded, ribbons removed and a short "service" with a minutes silence following the meeting with the flowers for those that died. Sadly, as it stands, it all seemed a bit contrived and ended up coming across as a self serving attempt to prove BASSA members care rather than the true memorial it should have been. I'm not saying that was the intention but as you see and as BASSA were warned, it was certainly the result.
Just out of interest, you talk about the memorial service held at Manchester a few weeks ago. How many of the BASSA supporters attended this service?
Surely you can see the conflict of interest and the mixed messages that BASSA were sending regarding the yellow flowers. On the one hand, it was in support of those that have been suspended or sacked, possibly as a result of their own behaviour. Then all of a sudden, those same flowers were in memory to those that lost their lives in a tragic accident. It just doesn't gel. I have no problem with BASSA members remembering those involved on that dreadful day but it needed to be completely separate from any union business. Off the top of my head, maybe white ribbons in support of colleagues during the meeting and then once all union business was concluded, ribbons removed and a short "service" with a minutes silence following the meeting with the flowers for those that died. Sadly, as it stands, it all seemed a bit contrived and ended up coming across as a self serving attempt to prove BASSA members care rather than the true memorial it should have been. I'm not saying that was the intention but as you see and as BASSA were warned, it was certainly the result.
Just out of interest, you talk about the memorial service held at Manchester a few weeks ago. How many of the BASSA supporters attended this service?
Last edited by jetset lady; 7th Sep 2010 at 13:38.
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Dave 3
I operated out of Manchester 25 years ago on that fateful day.
I was Airtours crew.
I knew all the crew on that aircraft.
I attended the memorial service that year.
I went to the funeral soon after of the purser who survived but sadly succumbed to cancer.
Sorry Dave but you are out of order and so is BASSA.
I applaud anyone who wishes to remember the tragic deaths but not at a meeting where the main topic is an industrial dispute.
The sooner this poor choice of tactic by BASSA is forgotten, the better for all.
I was Airtours crew.
I knew all the crew on that aircraft.
I attended the memorial service that year.
I went to the funeral soon after of the purser who survived but sadly succumbed to cancer.
Sorry Dave but you are out of order and so is BASSA.
I applaud anyone who wishes to remember the tragic deaths but not at a meeting where the main topic is an industrial dispute.
The sooner this poor choice of tactic by BASSA is forgotten, the better for all.
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Sadly, throughout my flying career, I have lost a large number of friends and colleagues. Not just people I worked with or worked in the same company with but close friends. The vast majority lost through aviation related accidents and incidents.
The anniversaries of their passing are spread throught the year and I remember each and every one as if it were yesterday. The loss of life associated with an aviation disaster is terrible and worth remembering by all of us who continue to work in an industry where commercial and financial pressures occasionally clash against the application of caution and judgement.
To attempt to use the occasion of dissention as a 'tribute' toward those lost is, IMHO, totally unjust. The use of the anniversary of a tragic accident to push home a feeling of 'brotherhood' and 'solidarity' within a mass of militant Union members rides up with the shameful use of the Iwo Jima doctored image.
If DH is behind these awful parodies then he really needs to wake up and understand that he is shaming his Union in public.
If BASSA wishes to remember the crew on that fateful day then arrange a proper rememberence and we will all stand shoulder to shoulder irrespective of our disagreements over the current issues.
The anniversaries of their passing are spread throught the year and I remember each and every one as if it were yesterday. The loss of life associated with an aviation disaster is terrible and worth remembering by all of us who continue to work in an industry where commercial and financial pressures occasionally clash against the application of caution and judgement.
To attempt to use the occasion of dissention as a 'tribute' toward those lost is, IMHO, totally unjust. The use of the anniversary of a tragic accident to push home a feeling of 'brotherhood' and 'solidarity' within a mass of militant Union members rides up with the shameful use of the Iwo Jima doctored image.
If DH is behind these awful parodies then he really needs to wake up and understand that he is shaming his Union in public.
If BASSA wishes to remember the crew on that fateful day then arrange a proper rememberence and we will all stand shoulder to shoulder irrespective of our disagreements over the current issues.