British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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Ava
You have all but admitted that you have been completely misled and lied to by BASSA. Now that you have realised that, isn't it time to cut your losses? Staff travel is on offer - with reduced seniority. That is far better than not having it all. Striking again, as you seem to realise, is futile and will not get your staff travel back. If you are only striking to get staff travel back, then it begs the question - why did you ever go on strike in the first place?
It is because of these lies and because of the ruin that BASSA have inflicted on people, that we all need to do something about it. Do not throw good money after bad by striking again - I really feel you are putting your job in serious jeopardy if you do.
PC767
The Professional Cabin Crew Council does offer a "rally point" and "safety" for people. They are all chatting on our forum, talking excitedly about the new offer, saying how pleased they are to act independently from BASSA. There are also some who have left the Union since the offer was announced - and they are expressing feelings of freedom now. No-one has expressed that they are unhappy with the new offer.
You, however, are still tied to the Union. What do you think to the new offer? As you have already acted independently from BASSA and ignored their strike call, why don't you go the full hog, and realise, as many others have, the sense of liberation from not belonging to this archaic, outdated Union that are leading people to ruin?
You have all but admitted that you have been completely misled and lied to by BASSA. Now that you have realised that, isn't it time to cut your losses? Staff travel is on offer - with reduced seniority. That is far better than not having it all. Striking again, as you seem to realise, is futile and will not get your staff travel back. If you are only striking to get staff travel back, then it begs the question - why did you ever go on strike in the first place?
It is because of these lies and because of the ruin that BASSA have inflicted on people, that we all need to do something about it. Do not throw good money after bad by striking again - I really feel you are putting your job in serious jeopardy if you do.
if a framework for the return of staff travel can be agreed, I know of many crew who are now considering BA's offer. Perhaps if your organisation was open and you were identifiable you would offer a rally point and safety for such people.
The Professional Cabin Crew Council does offer a "rally point" and "safety" for people. They are all chatting on our forum, talking excitedly about the new offer, saying how pleased they are to act independently from BASSA. There are also some who have left the Union since the offer was announced - and they are expressing feelings of freedom now. No-one has expressed that they are unhappy with the new offer.
You, however, are still tied to the Union. What do you think to the new offer? As you have already acted independently from BASSA and ignored their strike call, why don't you go the full hog, and realise, as many others have, the sense of liberation from not belonging to this archaic, outdated Union that are leading people to ruin?
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Bill Francis did say that New Fleet would offer market rate plus 10 %,however this does not seem to be the reality,when I asked him on the ess forum if it would be beneficial to transfer from LGW to New Fleet he gave a positive reply ,however I can't see many gatwick crew moving across as it means a pay cut in real terms unless one tries for the management position.
I would consider that the terms and conditions offered by Virgin are more interesting to new candidates than those proposed for new fleet -don't forget the free tickets and tax free downroute payments!!!
I would consider that the terms and conditions offered by Virgin are more interesting to new candidates than those proposed for new fleet -don't forget the free tickets and tax free downroute payments!!!
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have been a observer, without ever being a member. I would now like to put my pennies worth.My view has always been very neutral, up until now.As a member of a union who went into work during the first lot of strikes, as I felt I was doing the correct thing. In recent times I have come to the conclusion, that it is not all about cost savings, I do now believe there is a element of union busting.
NF what was originally supposed to start off as a small operation, it is now twice the size, SFG crew are toooo expensive to transfer. Have had the new proposal read by a family friend(works for a legal employment firm),who has told me that to a ordinary crew member it will come across ok, but jargon like assurances are not legally binding.
I now have the chance to correct my mistakes, in the up and coming ballot...
I do feel that I made the wrong choice, by going into work.My trips since the last strike have been a nightmare. On my LAX a few days ago, it was made clear on the aircraft by striking crew that I would not be welcome to join them for a drink, was not included in any of the conversations.
I understand how the strikers feel. I was asked the question would I accept a better deal if it was agreed by the union, to which I replied yes. It was at that moment that I knew that I had made a mistake...
I apologize for my spelling and grammar as English is my third language.
NF what was originally supposed to start off as a small operation, it is now twice the size, SFG crew are toooo expensive to transfer. Have had the new proposal read by a family friend(works for a legal employment firm),who has told me that to a ordinary crew member it will come across ok, but jargon like assurances are not legally binding.
I now have the chance to correct my mistakes, in the up and coming ballot...
I do feel that I made the wrong choice, by going into work.My trips since the last strike have been a nightmare. On my LAX a few days ago, it was made clear on the aircraft by striking crew that I would not be welcome to join them for a drink, was not included in any of the conversations.
I understand how the strikers feel. I was asked the question would I accept a better deal if it was agreed by the union, to which I replied yes. It was at that moment that I knew that I had made a mistake...
I apologize for my spelling and grammar as English is my third language.
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It was an aside so I cannot be bothered trailing through everything Francis has said about New/Mixed Fleet. At some point, he stated the intention of New Fleet was to better the best rate by 10%, thus giving it the edge financially. When questioned who he/BA thought were the best paid initially, other than the revolting BA crew, he stated Virgin Atlantic. So, to attract crew the offer was Virgin plus 10%. Or not as it transpires.
I've mentioned before that Mrs PC767 was temp crew for BA. She has remained in touch with other temps. It seems a few are now applying to Virgin, rather than be messed around by BA and join a divided IFCE.
Caribbean Boy, old bean, old boy, nothing lacking credibility in my post, I copied the details direct from Virgin. As for BA's benefits. Well, certainly for the cabin crew (of which I am), we don't recieve 7 ID100s ever. Virgin also recieve unlimited ID90s, indeed until we started using Zed fares, Virgin paid less to commute on our aircraft than we did.
BA pension scheme. Yes we have one, I'll be paying 13.5% to maintain mine. Whilst the trustees are working their socks off to maintain it, I'm not confident that when I retire in 20 years hence it will exist.
Educational sponsorship - only if required, and then it hasn't been offered for years, (at least to cabin crew). I'm paying for my own LLB.
The rest I cannot be bothered debating, other than the healthcare, which when I last checked offered a 10% discount from the standard rate. Fail to mention BA and ask for the best rate they can do and you'll pay less!
I've mentioned before that Mrs PC767 was temp crew for BA. She has remained in touch with other temps. It seems a few are now applying to Virgin, rather than be messed around by BA and join a divided IFCE.
Caribbean Boy, old bean, old boy, nothing lacking credibility in my post, I copied the details direct from Virgin. As for BA's benefits. Well, certainly for the cabin crew (of which I am), we don't recieve 7 ID100s ever. Virgin also recieve unlimited ID90s, indeed until we started using Zed fares, Virgin paid less to commute on our aircraft than we did.
BA pension scheme. Yes we have one, I'll be paying 13.5% to maintain mine. Whilst the trustees are working their socks off to maintain it, I'm not confident that when I retire in 20 years hence it will exist.
Educational sponsorship - only if required, and then it hasn't been offered for years, (at least to cabin crew). I'm paying for my own LLB.
The rest I cannot be bothered debating, other than the healthcare, which when I last checked offered a 10% discount from the standard rate. Fail to mention BA and ask for the best rate they can do and you'll pay less!
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Nursery discounts
The Nursery discounts are not much use to cc either.
You have to live near to a participating nursery to start with.Then you have to book your child in for certain days and hours.That is fine for office based staff but with cc working different days and hours that is impossible.A lot of crew rely on friends and family to overcome that.
There are no nurseries open on Christmas Day,Easter etc when cc are working.
I don't mean to appear ungrateful.I have worked for BA for a long time,and long may that continue.I am very happy and have no axe to grind,but just pointing out that sometimes thing are not as good as they seem to an outsider.
Another point,if I may.Have just tried to use my free ticket for October half term.All the flights I am looking at are waitlist only and are looking full.
Wherever I end up I will have to pay full fare,like I am in August.
The general public are full of anger at our travel perks,but the reality is I haven't been able to use my for years.
You have to live near to a participating nursery to start with.Then you have to book your child in for certain days and hours.That is fine for office based staff but with cc working different days and hours that is impossible.A lot of crew rely on friends and family to overcome that.
There are no nurseries open on Christmas Day,Easter etc when cc are working.
I don't mean to appear ungrateful.I have worked for BA for a long time,and long may that continue.I am very happy and have no axe to grind,but just pointing out that sometimes thing are not as good as they seem to an outsider.
Another point,if I may.Have just tried to use my free ticket for October half term.All the flights I am looking at are waitlist only and are looking full.
Wherever I end up I will have to pay full fare,like I am in August.
The general public are full of anger at our travel perks,but the reality is I haven't been able to use my for years.
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bhx01
I'm very sorry to hear about your treatment at the hands of the sect of the xxxxers.
If you have not previously struck, and are now considering doing so, I would seriously think again! Is it possible you are just responding to bullying? What do you think your sacrifice would achieve?
You were asked a question:
Let's deal in reality, not fantasy:
Of course, the actual answer is that you would have no choice in the matter. Whether you are in the union or not, so far you have been obliged to accept whatever BASSA have managed to 'negotiate'.
The reality is that everyone is now lumbered with a far worse outcome than if BASSA had simply not been involved.
The reality is also that there won't be any better deal!
The fantasy is that by voting yet again for strike, something will change. (For the better?)
Ever heard the saying "If you keep doing what you always did, you'll keep getting what you always got"?
I'm very sorry to hear about your treatment at the hands of the sect of the xxxxers.
If you have not previously struck, and are now considering doing so, I would seriously think again! Is it possible you are just responding to bullying? What do you think your sacrifice would achieve?
You were asked a question:
I was asked the question would I accept a better deal if it was agreed by the union, to which I replied yes. It was at that moment that I knew that I had made a mistake...
Of course, the actual answer is that you would have no choice in the matter. Whether you are in the union or not, so far you have been obliged to accept whatever BASSA have managed to 'negotiate'.
The reality is that everyone is now lumbered with a far worse outcome than if BASSA had simply not been involved.
The reality is also that there won't be any better deal!
The fantasy is that by voting yet again for strike, something will change. (For the better?)
Ever heard the saying "If you keep doing what you always did, you'll keep getting what you always got"?
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617sqn (Nice moniker!)
You guys really need to get your stories straight:
Either Staff Travel (or more precisely 'seniority') is useless, or it's absolutely vital.
Which will it be??
You guys really need to get your stories straight:
Either Staff Travel (or more precisely 'seniority') is useless, or it's absolutely vital.
Which will it be??
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Can't speak for others.
For me: It's nice to know I have staff travel.
Unfortunately,I only go away in school holidays,along with everyone else.
Therefore,even with a lot of seniority there will probably not be 4 spare seats on the popular routes.
I,therefore,book full fare tickets so I know I will not spend my hols at the airport.
I am grateful that I have staff travel as I have used it a few times in the past,and I am sure that I will in the future when the children are older and we are not tied to school hols.
If I were a commuter who had lost staff travel I would have a different story to tell.
For me: It's nice to know I have staff travel.
Unfortunately,I only go away in school holidays,along with everyone else.
Therefore,even with a lot of seniority there will probably not be 4 spare seats on the popular routes.
I,therefore,book full fare tickets so I know I will not spend my hols at the airport.
I am grateful that I have staff travel as I have used it a few times in the past,and I am sure that I will in the future when the children are older and we are not tied to school hols.
If I were a commuter who had lost staff travel I would have a different story to tell.
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4468 having spoken to a number of people that went into work, I would say about 40% of those are thinking of striking. I am afraid BA have lost the support of a few like me.BA said that new NF was in the pipe pline , it is now a fact, at double the original size. I now have a choice of carrying on going into work and sticking to my current fleet, as I do not fulfill the requirements of a SCM on new fleet or maybe fight BA's hidden agenda and get a better deal. As the one on the table gives no guarantees to my agreements.
I am glad that maybe I have come to my senses before its to late.. I for one do not hold any grudges against that those that went on strike and those that did not. As I may fall into both groups in the near future..
I am glad that maybe I have come to my senses before its to late.. I for one do not hold any grudges against that those that went on strike and those that did not. As I may fall into both groups in the near future..
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You have all but admitted that you have been completely misled and lied to by BASSA. Now that you have realised that, isn't it time to cut your losses? Staff travel is on offer - with reduced seniority. That is far better than not having it all. Striking again, as you seem to realise, is futile and will not get your staff travel back. If you are only striking to get staff travel back, then it begs the question - why did you ever go on strike in the first place?
I went on strike because of the principle of imposition. We had a strong vote for industrial action. On the first day of the strike in March, I had one of the earliest report times and I was convinced that most cabin crew would actually stand by their vote, which would have meant that almost the whole of the company had been grounded. With the assurance from BASSA that I would get my staff travel back, I based my decision to strike on these two points.
It is because of these lies and because of the ruin that BASSA have inflicted on people, that we all need to do something about it. Do not throw good money after bad by striking again - I really feel you are putting your job in serious jeopardy if you do.
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It sems the devil is in the detail once again PC767. You're happy to point out that Virgin pay £500 per year more on their basic (so after tax that'll be about £34 per month more) but you don't seem to have any figures for Virgins allowances. What do you think they make per month in allowances? It certainly isn't anything like BA pay you.
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TC
having spoken to virgin crew over the last 4 months specifically to get an idea of their conditions ,I can confirm that they get a tax free downroute payment that is slightly better than the taxable allowances that we at LGW receive for the same trip.
having spoken to virgin crew over the last 4 months specifically to get an idea of their conditions ,I can confirm that they get a tax free downroute payment that is slightly better than the taxable allowances that we at LGW receive for the same trip.
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biteme,
Can you see that BA needed to do something because over the years our pay has risen and this is because of clever negotiation by the union( actually cc89 did most of the negotiating) to get box payments and overtime for us.
What we now needed was a union that realised that our pay is inflated compared to others in the now more competitive airline industry and negotiated to protect those of us who are currently crew but enabled the company to take on new entrants on a more realistic deal.
That is why the company offered to bring in the travel payment in order that we would then be able to work alongside the new entrants. There were a few things that would also have allowed this to happen, like for example fixed links on E/F, working a bit later on our last day etc.
BASSA had the chance and could have negotiated and stopped New Fleet but instead they have been totally obsessed with CSD's not working inflight and crew compliments.
They have missed the chance to negotiate a deal where BA had new crew joining us. Instead of negotiating and looking after it's members it has been strike calling and actually making it alot worse.
Now some have lost their staff travel and New Fleet is hear bigger than ever and it is BASSA's fault in my view. They should have been properly negotiating and asking us what we wanted instead of offering 2 year pay cuts and 767 longhaul work on E/F which none of us wanted. Everything that they offered the company was all about protecting the CSD job which nearly all of them are. They have let all of us down.
I find it hard to believe that you could now be thinking of striking and putting your staff travel at risk and your job. Or are you one of these people that votes for a strike but then does not do it. Maybe this time you will just vote for a strike but then come in and work like last time. That's almost worse than striking. You let us down by voting to strike and then you let the strikers down as well by working.
Can you see that BA needed to do something because over the years our pay has risen and this is because of clever negotiation by the union( actually cc89 did most of the negotiating) to get box payments and overtime for us.
What we now needed was a union that realised that our pay is inflated compared to others in the now more competitive airline industry and negotiated to protect those of us who are currently crew but enabled the company to take on new entrants on a more realistic deal.
That is why the company offered to bring in the travel payment in order that we would then be able to work alongside the new entrants. There were a few things that would also have allowed this to happen, like for example fixed links on E/F, working a bit later on our last day etc.
BASSA had the chance and could have negotiated and stopped New Fleet but instead they have been totally obsessed with CSD's not working inflight and crew compliments.
They have missed the chance to negotiate a deal where BA had new crew joining us. Instead of negotiating and looking after it's members it has been strike calling and actually making it alot worse.
Now some have lost their staff travel and New Fleet is hear bigger than ever and it is BASSA's fault in my view. They should have been properly negotiating and asking us what we wanted instead of offering 2 year pay cuts and 767 longhaul work on E/F which none of us wanted. Everything that they offered the company was all about protecting the CSD job which nearly all of them are. They have let all of us down.
I find it hard to believe that you could now be thinking of striking and putting your staff travel at risk and your job. Or are you one of these people that votes for a strike but then does not do it. Maybe this time you will just vote for a strike but then come in and work like last time. That's almost worse than striking. You let us down by voting to strike and then you let the strikers down as well by working.
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bhx01
4468 having spoken to a number of people that went into work, I would say about 40% of those are thinking of striking. I am afraid BA have lost the support of a few like me.BA said that new NF was in the pipe pline , it is now a fact, at double the original size. I now have a choice of carrying on going into work and sticking to my current fleet, as I do not fulfill the requirements of a SCM on new fleet or maybe fight BA's hidden agenda and get a better deal. As the one on the table gives no guarantees to my agreements.
I am glad that maybe I have come to my senses before its to late.. I for one do not hold any grudges against that those that went on strike and those that did not. As I may fall into both groups in the near future..
I am glad that maybe I have come to my senses before its to late.. I for one do not hold any grudges against that those that went on strike and those that did not. As I may fall into both groups in the near future..
Who has guarantees these days? Tell those that have lost their jobs, that have little income resulting in losing their house etc etc that you are 'concerned because there are no guarantees'.
YOU WILL STILL HAVE A JOB. You will pay your mortgage/bills/groceries..!! No wonder many of the public are infuriated with you, to say nothing of other staff that have not had a pay rise for years, have increased workload,and, like most in the country, or more to the point, worldwide, certainly have 'no guarantees'!!
Why not look at what you have got rather than to worry what you may or may not have in the future. That's the way the rest of us mere mortals live. Climb aboard the reality bus, you will be most welcome.
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Betty girl,
Thank you for understanding me and having a attack at my personality.
What I chose to do about IA is no secret, I stand up for what I believe to be fair and am a man of my word.
Whatever way I vote I will stand by my decision.
For your information the average pay increase in the UK for CEOs in the last decade was 400%
For the average worker it has been around 13% for the same period.
Yes the reason for this is that good CEOs are hard to come by.
A board of directors measure how good CEO is by the company share price.
I am of a different opinion and don’t believe we are being taken in the best direction by our current leadership.
This is only my opinion and please feel free to express yourselves.
PS: Please try and be a little more respectful of others opinions politeness costs nothing.
Thank you for understanding me and having a attack at my personality.
What I chose to do about IA is no secret, I stand up for what I believe to be fair and am a man of my word.
Whatever way I vote I will stand by my decision.
For your information the average pay increase in the UK for CEOs in the last decade was 400%
For the average worker it has been around 13% for the same period.
Yes the reason for this is that good CEOs are hard to come by.
A board of directors measure how good CEO is by the company share price.
I am of a different opinion and don’t believe we are being taken in the best direction by our current leadership.
This is only my opinion and please feel free to express yourselves.
PS: Please try and be a little more respectful of others opinions politeness costs nothing.
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I am afraid bhx01 is not the only one that is starting to think the way he/she is!
I don't know - but I just am VERY worried now of Mixed Fleet - it is going to be very big in such a small space of time. They said 500 crew in 2 years initially now it is 1250 or whatever it is!
What routes will be starting Mixed Fleet? How often will these routes go? For all BASSA/UNITEs faults - which I have critisised them MANY times here I am sure they would have rathered discussed a matrix of routes. I know the guys at PCCC have been saying this is needed and maybe BASSA has missed oppurtunities - however BA don't seem to mention anything about matrixes of routes anymore in their proposals just ''a fair distribution of work between fleets.'' - What does that mean? What does ''fair'' look like according to BA?
Main Crew and PSRs have been alienated - many MC will not be able to apply for CSM as they need management experience. Future Talent is not an option for most as it means a paycut for a year whilst they are on the programme - and there is no guarantee of a CSM job after the 12 months! As for PSRs at LHR - well there is no point as it will be a huge paycut even if they did want the extra responsibility of managing a team. MC and PSRs at LGW may be better off though, and MC at LGW may be OK to do the Future Talent!
I know they say promotions on current fleets ''where oppurtunities exist'' - well if they want to shrink Eurofleet/Worldwide based on attrition and move the work to Mixed Fleet, PLUS less PSRs on aircraft where will these oppurtunities be? It is VERY demotivating!
It does also make you wonder, at the tactics of BA, I mean I know BASSA/UNITE have CERTAINLY not been perfect, but in many ways they do a lot of good! Ie. the terms we do enjoy. And I do value agreements that we work towards. I wouldn't want to work to scheme. Work more efficiently on Eurofleet YES of course!
But also I have heard stories of many people who came to work - who have had no thanks, (not that a thanks is expected) but without going into detail, haven't been given the benefit of a doubt or anything with various things! No leave being given etc etc
Maybe this IS all about union busting all along. Afterall, if we were about to go bust if changes weren't made... why is Mixed Fleet... a ''very gradual'' change being introduced over the years, so necessary why not some changes. And whilst BASSA has ignored many good offers - they were the ones that did introduce the ''intergrated'' approach last summer. A MUCH better way that should be introduced!
Will striking make any offers better - I am not sure and that's why I am so confused! But will this new offer safeguard our future? I am not sure about that either?
I don't know - but I just am VERY worried now of Mixed Fleet - it is going to be very big in such a small space of time. They said 500 crew in 2 years initially now it is 1250 or whatever it is!
What routes will be starting Mixed Fleet? How often will these routes go? For all BASSA/UNITEs faults - which I have critisised them MANY times here I am sure they would have rathered discussed a matrix of routes. I know the guys at PCCC have been saying this is needed and maybe BASSA has missed oppurtunities - however BA don't seem to mention anything about matrixes of routes anymore in their proposals just ''a fair distribution of work between fleets.'' - What does that mean? What does ''fair'' look like according to BA?
Main Crew and PSRs have been alienated - many MC will not be able to apply for CSM as they need management experience. Future Talent is not an option for most as it means a paycut for a year whilst they are on the programme - and there is no guarantee of a CSM job after the 12 months! As for PSRs at LHR - well there is no point as it will be a huge paycut even if they did want the extra responsibility of managing a team. MC and PSRs at LGW may be better off though, and MC at LGW may be OK to do the Future Talent!
I know they say promotions on current fleets ''where oppurtunities exist'' - well if they want to shrink Eurofleet/Worldwide based on attrition and move the work to Mixed Fleet, PLUS less PSRs on aircraft where will these oppurtunities be? It is VERY demotivating!
It does also make you wonder, at the tactics of BA, I mean I know BASSA/UNITE have CERTAINLY not been perfect, but in many ways they do a lot of good! Ie. the terms we do enjoy. And I do value agreements that we work towards. I wouldn't want to work to scheme. Work more efficiently on Eurofleet YES of course!
But also I have heard stories of many people who came to work - who have had no thanks, (not that a thanks is expected) but without going into detail, haven't been given the benefit of a doubt or anything with various things! No leave being given etc etc
Maybe this IS all about union busting all along. Afterall, if we were about to go bust if changes weren't made... why is Mixed Fleet... a ''very gradual'' change being introduced over the years, so necessary why not some changes. And whilst BASSA has ignored many good offers - they were the ones that did introduce the ''intergrated'' approach last summer. A MUCH better way that should be introduced!
Will striking make any offers better - I am not sure and that's why I am so confused! But will this new offer safeguard our future? I am not sure about that either?
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There is a lot of straw clutching going on here.
BASSA's inability to negotiate, effectively, must not be allowed to be forgotten. BASSA has alienated itself to a degree where BA is just rolling on over a work force that has cut itself adrift through naive support of an anachronistic 'little' behemoth.
Point your finger anywhere other than Union leadership and you are fooling yourself.
Start researching again, and look no further than Sir Christopher Holland's report from last year.
nurj
biteme, you are realising the benefit of research and the meaning of FACTS, not emotion.
BASSA's inability to negotiate, effectively, must not be allowed to be forgotten. BASSA has alienated itself to a degree where BA is just rolling on over a work force that has cut itself adrift through naive support of an anachronistic 'little' behemoth.
Point your finger anywhere other than Union leadership and you are fooling yourself.
Start researching again, and look no further than Sir Christopher Holland's report from last year.
nurj
biteme, you are realising the benefit of research and the meaning of FACTS, not emotion.
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and furthermore
If there was further IA I sincerely hope that the board will go nuclear. Is it right for a minority of staff to damage an Airline that the majority work dam hard for?
I feel that the continued training of vcc's is vital to ensure that the afforementioned can no longer hold a gun to our heads.
Thankfully the majority of cc are moderate and accept realities of life, and are very much appreciated, certainly from my point of view.
BASSA have done untold damage, simply because their meaning of negotiation is 'the answer's NO, what's the question?'
Roll on the day that BASSA Jurassic share the same fate as the tyrannosaurus rex.
Come on PCCC.....sell yourself like there's no tomorrow...for all our sakes. Thankyou
I feel that the continued training of vcc's is vital to ensure that the afforementioned can no longer hold a gun to our heads.
Thankfully the majority of cc are moderate and accept realities of life, and are very much appreciated, certainly from my point of view.
BASSA have done untold damage, simply because their meaning of negotiation is 'the answer's NO, what's the question?'
Roll on the day that BASSA Jurassic share the same fate as the tyrannosaurus rex.
Come on PCCC.....sell yourself like there's no tomorrow...for all our sakes. Thankyou