British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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Post 714
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Not quite correct, if there is a "no" vote for the final offer, then Unite will ballot for IA, and only if there is a vote for IA, and members go on strike, will there be a risk of dismissal. Other have explain the 90 day rule better than I can, but I understand that BA's dismissal powers will most likely be inforce from day1 of any future strike action, unless Unite can convince the high court, that this is a fresh dispute
If they vote NO they will then go on strike and he can then sack them.
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Ah, I receive several replies of the narrow black or white variety. Closed minds, already decided and judged before the hearing.
Of course, I fully understand why I should be lambasted for taking what appears to be a pro BASSA view on this site. I'm accused of being pro BA on sites where minds are closed and BASSA are the majority. I look to play devils advocate, to try and balance out a discussion. This site is as guilty as the BASSA and Crewforum sites for being a collective of similar thoughs and suggestions.
I offer a view as to why cabin crew may not post in their real names, why they remain anonymous, only a view, not a fact. The value of an anonymous complaint or an un-sourced quote is practically nil, it cannot be questioned, challenged or often substantiated. By identifying themselves BA cabin crew leave themselves open to the procedures Caribbean Boy posts.
BASSA offers some freedom of speech, but not much. Both BASSA and crewforum have been served legal papers by BA requesting details of posters on their forums. I do not know the current state of play in those cases. Perhaps this is why so many crew do not sign their missives. Just a thought.
And Hiflyer, if a framework for the return of staff travel can be agreed, I know of many crew who are now considering BA's offer. Perhaps if your organisation was open and you were identifiable you would offer a rally point and safety for such people. If not, I still maintain you are a toothless chicken.
Of course, I fully understand why I should be lambasted for taking what appears to be a pro BASSA view on this site. I'm accused of being pro BA on sites where minds are closed and BASSA are the majority. I look to play devils advocate, to try and balance out a discussion. This site is as guilty as the BASSA and Crewforum sites for being a collective of similar thoughs and suggestions.
I offer a view as to why cabin crew may not post in their real names, why they remain anonymous, only a view, not a fact. The value of an anonymous complaint or an un-sourced quote is practically nil, it cannot be questioned, challenged or often substantiated. By identifying themselves BA cabin crew leave themselves open to the procedures Caribbean Boy posts.
BASSA offers some freedom of speech, but not much. Both BASSA and crewforum have been served legal papers by BA requesting details of posters on their forums. I do not know the current state of play in those cases. Perhaps this is why so many crew do not sign their missives. Just a thought.
And Hiflyer, if a framework for the return of staff travel can be agreed, I know of many crew who are now considering BA's offer. Perhaps if your organisation was open and you were identifiable you would offer a rally point and safety for such people. If not, I still maintain you are a toothless chicken.
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PC 767,
My post about people never putting their names to documents was about the BASSA leadership not it's forum members. The call to Tolpuddle was from BASSA admin. I was merely commenting on the fact that all correspondence from the union never has the authors name on it. This was never the case many years ago. Of couse I am not suggesting people post on sites like this using their name. If you look at the parent union's ( Unite) newsletters on the internet or all their letters to us they are always signed by the author. That's all I was saying.
My post about people never putting their names to documents was about the BASSA leadership not it's forum members. The call to Tolpuddle was from BASSA admin. I was merely commenting on the fact that all correspondence from the union never has the authors name on it. This was never the case many years ago. Of couse I am not suggesting people post on sites like this using their name. If you look at the parent union's ( Unite) newsletters on the internet or all their letters to us they are always signed by the author. That's all I was saying.
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ST
If staff travel is returned, Willie's credibility will be in doubt. You will have the BASSAmentalists parading a 'victory' (yes, we know it would'nt be, but they will spin it), the diehards will retain their status, the miltants will remain only to fight for some other cause that they perceive as 'just'.
Then, what for any similar threat of benefit removal in the future? It will ring very hollow.
NO RETURN OF ST.
Until this BASSA beast is slain, we are going to be unable to move forward IMHO.
Then, what for any similar threat of benefit removal in the future? It will ring very hollow.
NO RETURN OF ST.
Until this BASSA beast is slain, we are going to be unable to move forward IMHO.
Last edited by ranger07; 4th Jul 2010 at 10:05.
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Ranger07.
I believe Walsh works for the benefit of the company and shareholders. This bitter dispute is hardly a benefit. If all it takes is the no cost return of staff travel to strikers to complete an agreement, then lets do it, for the benefit of BA and the shareholders.
I also believe it will be a benefit if similar threats are hollow in the future. This time it is the cabin crew, but can you say with total certainity that other departments will not be targeted in the future. If Walsh succeeds in his removal of perks, it will effect every worker in the future, and not just in BA.
I believe Walsh works for the benefit of the company and shareholders. This bitter dispute is hardly a benefit. If all it takes is the no cost return of staff travel to strikers to complete an agreement, then lets do it, for the benefit of BA and the shareholders.
I also believe it will be a benefit if similar threats are hollow in the future. This time it is the cabin crew, but can you say with total certainity that other departments will not be targeted in the future. If Walsh succeeds in his removal of perks, it will effect every worker in the future, and not just in BA.
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Ava, have BASSA done no wrong through your eyes?
You seem to deflect all eloquent responses with utter irrevelence. You've also become the focal point on the other forum. Have a look at some of the posts,there's one such passenger that wishes not to fly with strikers..if that were possible. Suffice to say, there is no support.
Beleive it or not but during the strike Bill was in the Crew report centre alot talking to all of us!!
In my world 28 days is as good as a month!
May be you should remember or review your previous posts, or perhaps edit with a fuller explanation if you don't want people to get the wrong idea ... 'cos from where I am sitting, that post as good as said "I come to work once a month"
May be you should remember or review your previous posts, or perhaps edit with a fuller explanation if you don't want people to get the wrong idea ... 'cos from where I am sitting, that post as good as said "I come to work once a month"
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Ava, in your opinion will BA sack anyone who strikes this time?
This is another rumour which has been going on for a very long time. Some said crew with an early report on the first day of the strike would get sacked with the purpose of breaking the strike. After that some said we would get our P45 in June. We are still here and I have a feeling we still will be here next year.
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WW will indeed use this as a weapon in the future. So in the future any union considering industrial action had better make damn sure that it is a very well supported decision. That way the return of withdrawn perks can be a precondition of a return to work.
Unfortunately BASSA decided to conduct this shambles of a strike by way of a show of hands, lies, smears and spin. They were fully aware that the massive majority in ballots would never translate into solid support for the walkout, and have lost what little leverage they had to regain the lost ST.
Basically, if you lost ST as a result of going on strike, your only hope is that it will be restored in some form by a benevolent management. BASSA haven't got a hope in hell of getting it restored by further IA.
As for giving it back to bring an end to this dispute - is that REALLY in the long term interests of the shareholders? The city recognise that letting BASSA survive in anything like its present form simply stores up future problems for the company. The world at large has at last seen the insanity and intransigence of one of the most regressive unions in the country - something those of us within BA have been aware of for years.
BASSA must not only be neutered, but be seen to be so publicly. That way investor confidence may return. FWIW I think WW is well on the way to achieving this.
Unfortunately BASSA decided to conduct this shambles of a strike by way of a show of hands, lies, smears and spin. They were fully aware that the massive majority in ballots would never translate into solid support for the walkout, and have lost what little leverage they had to regain the lost ST.
Basically, if you lost ST as a result of going on strike, your only hope is that it will be restored in some form by a benevolent management. BASSA haven't got a hope in hell of getting it restored by further IA.
As for giving it back to bring an end to this dispute - is that REALLY in the long term interests of the shareholders? The city recognise that letting BASSA survive in anything like its present form simply stores up future problems for the company. The world at large has at last seen the insanity and intransigence of one of the most regressive unions in the country - something those of us within BA have been aware of for years.
BASSA must not only be neutered, but be seen to be so publicly. That way investor confidence may return. FWIW I think WW is well on the way to achieving this.
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Seems Simon Calder and I see matters in a similar light.
Simon Calder: Strikers have discounted BA's travel premium - News & Advice, Travel - The Independent
Runway vacated. According to Walsh, your view is not shared by himself nor the board. This is not a union busting exercise, apparently.
Simon Calder: Strikers have discounted BA's travel premium - News & Advice, Travel - The Independent
Runway vacated. According to Walsh, your view is not shared by himself nor the board. This is not a union busting exercise, apparently.
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Quick aside.
Virgin are recruiting for cabin crew.
Here's the deal.
- a basic salary of £11,564; trip pay, plus on board commission.
- one of the best travel concession schemes in the industry offering up to 7 free of charge tickets per year (tax only to be paid)
- life assurance
- pension scheme
- income protection insurance
- medical benefit plan
- season ticket loans.
BA's offer that new fleet would be Virgin plus 10% seems fictious.
BA Mixed fleet - £11,000 pa; £2.40 ph flight pay....................
Virgin are recruiting for cabin crew.
Here's the deal.
- a basic salary of £11,564; trip pay, plus on board commission.
- one of the best travel concession schemes in the industry offering up to 7 free of charge tickets per year (tax only to be paid)
- life assurance
- pension scheme
- income protection insurance
- medical benefit plan
- season ticket loans.
BA's offer that new fleet would be Virgin plus 10% seems fictious.
BA Mixed fleet - £11,000 pa; £2.40 ph flight pay....................
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Ava Hannah
They have made many, many, many mistakes in the past. Before the first strike back in March, they said we would get our staff travel back 'within 5 minutes' but thousands of us are still waiting to get it back. I thought they would get it back to us quickly and nothing is really happening either. That's why it's important to me that it is part of a settled proposal.
If you would not have struck, surely your grievance is with the union, not with the company, as you based your decision to strike on incorrect information?
And if you only participated in the strike on the basis that you wouldn't be losing your concessions as a result, how convinced were you of the merits of the union's case if you weren't prepared to risk ST in furtherance of the issues?
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BA Staff Benefits
PC767 wrote:
Your posts are getting increasingly less credible. Are you a BA employee as you claim to be? If so, then you are staggeringly ignorant of the benefits which BA staff have, which include:
Virgin are recruiting for cabin crew.
Here's the deal.
- a basic salary of £11,564; trip pay, plus on board commission.
- one of the best travel concession schemes in the industry offering up to 7 free of charge tickets per year (tax only to be paid)
- life assurance
- pension scheme
- income protection insurance
- medical benefit plan
- season ticket loans.
BA's offer that new fleet would be Virgin plus 10% seems fictious.
BA Mixed fleet - £11,000 pa; £2.40 ph flight pay....................
Here's the deal.
- a basic salary of £11,564; trip pay, plus on board commission.
- one of the best travel concession schemes in the industry offering up to 7 free of charge tickets per year (tax only to be paid)
- life assurance
- pension scheme
- income protection insurance
- medical benefit plan
- season ticket loans.
BA's offer that new fleet would be Virgin plus 10% seems fictious.
BA Mixed fleet - £11,000 pa; £2.40 ph flight pay....................
- Unlimited standby travel on BA and qualifying airlines six months after joining
- BA pension (a defined contribution scheme)
- Salary sacrifice for childcare and pension
- Educational sponsorship
- Childcare discount (the first £243 pm spent on childcare through care-4 are free from both tax and National Insurance contributions
- Nursery discounts
- Cargo concession (a limit of a total of 250 kg per annum)
- Online shopping discounts from over 1,200 retailers
- Reduced cost for private medical* and dental insurance plans
- Discounts on motor insurance, car hire, etc
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If, when BA promised to remove strikers' travel concessions, the union had told its members that the company was legally entitled to impose the sanction and that it would endeavour to get the concessions restored as part of the resolution to the dispute, would you still have voted for a strike and then gone on strike?
If you would not have struck, surely your grievance is with the union, not with the company, as you based your decision to strike on incorrect information?
And if you only participated in the strike on the basis that you wouldn't be losing your concessions as a result, how convinced were you of the merits of the union's case if you weren't prepared to risk ST in furtherance of the issues?
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Ava
After reading your recent posts I just cant see how you can back Bassa over this and be so bitter towards the company that allows you to lead the lifestyle that you have.
Basically you have admitted that BASSA are the only ones that have let you down, they have repeatedly lied to thier members. I think most of us knew the writing was on the wall when the phrase.. Youll have your staff travel back in 5 minutes.. Did anyone at BASSA actually check, or more importantly did any of the members actually question this statement along with quite a lot of statements that have come from BASSA.
Im sorry but like a lot of people I know they have no sympathy or understanding why crew blindly follow what a union says. If I was due to strike and take the major decision that you have just had to. I may have looked further a field than the Duncan Holley show. I have no respect for anyone who refuses to blindly follow the crowd on such a life changing action.
I wish you well and hope that things do work out, but feel that BA is not a good place for you or the company to be as I dont think there will any way you would ever be able to give 100%.
After reading your recent posts I just cant see how you can back Bassa over this and be so bitter towards the company that allows you to lead the lifestyle that you have.
Basically you have admitted that BASSA are the only ones that have let you down, they have repeatedly lied to thier members. I think most of us knew the writing was on the wall when the phrase.. Youll have your staff travel back in 5 minutes.. Did anyone at BASSA actually check, or more importantly did any of the members actually question this statement along with quite a lot of statements that have come from BASSA.
Im sorry but like a lot of people I know they have no sympathy or understanding why crew blindly follow what a union says. If I was due to strike and take the major decision that you have just had to. I may have looked further a field than the Duncan Holley show. I have no respect for anyone who refuses to blindly follow the crowd on such a life changing action.
I wish you well and hope that things do work out, but feel that BA is not a good place for you or the company to be as I dont think there will any way you would ever be able to give 100%.
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BASSA also said that strike-breaking crew would be socially isolated and their lives would be miserable at work, so I was interested to see this post in another place from a striking crew member:
That's not how BASSA promised it would be!
Just did a bkk/syd and only four xxxx crew, (2 a couple on their request and spent all their time alone) and the other two girls whilst adorable and lovely didn't want to leave out two girls who were ***** but denying it (v obvious).
I felt so depressed, ended up drinking too much, went out with them all one night and hated myself, spent rest of time alone.
miserable miserable miserable, only compounded by the fact that the last time i was in bkk i had the best crew in the world along with lovely u1 and 2 other forumites.
Hate myself for being so weak, but was so lonely and fed up and scared to go out in bkk alone. The couple made it obvious they didn't want company.
how are you all coping in similiar situations
I felt so depressed, ended up drinking too much, went out with them all one night and hated myself, spent rest of time alone.
miserable miserable miserable, only compounded by the fact that the last time i was in bkk i had the best crew in the world along with lovely u1 and 2 other forumites.
Hate myself for being so weak, but was so lonely and fed up and scared to go out in bkk alone. The couple made it obvious they didn't want company.
how are you all coping in similiar situations
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This has always been the problem with BASSA and its members. BASSA make totally unfounded and baseless statements and the majority of its members take them as gospel. It always used to amaze me that the crew I would talk to weren't going to actually research things for themselves before blindly following their union. I remember in the previous dispute a couple of years ago a certain young CC was very vocal about her intention to go on strike, when questioned she couldn't acutally tell me why she was going on strike (seems to be the same this time around) and when asked how she was going to live financially during a prolonged strike (she had been talking about never having any money) she said that a BASSA rep had told her not to worry as they would make sure that all strikers would still get paid their full salary during the strike!! The mind blowing fact was they she believed every word without question.
Ava in your case I find it unbelievable that when you were warned repeatedly by the company that your staff travel would be withdrawn you didn't even spend the time to pick up a phone or send an email to someone other than BASSA to check if the company could do this. Instead you 'gambled' this vital benefit on which you rely on a short missive from BASSA saying they could return the staff travel to you 'within' 5 minutes. That was dispite loads of people on this board warning potential strikers that BA was justified in withdrawing this 'benefit'. You have to take some responsibility yourself her for getting 'sucked' in by BASSA. The more outrageous fact is now you are willing to pursue yet more IA against the company to put right a wrong that you have only yourself and BASSA to blame for
Just a piece of advice (all bassa members), when you get people trying to point out that what BASSA says is factually not right, please don't always jump to the conclusion that we are trying to scaremonger because we somehow dislike CC and BASSA. It is actually quite the opposite, I have a few good friends who are crew and I don't want any of them to fall foul of the law or end up getting sacked due to them relying on BASSA's ill thought out and dangerous tactics. I once again ask all those BASSA members considering a strike vote this time around, please spend some time researching for yourself the power of BA to dismiss you for taking IA this time around if it is found that the strike ballot is illegal. Based on the fact that BASSA has already said it will be selective in who it send the ballot too and the fact that they are re-hashing some already tried reasons for the strike would sugest to me that BA could have this ruled an 'unlawful' continuation of Industrial Action beyond 12 weeks. Please don't take my word for it though go and ask someone outside of the industry. BA have acutally be very reasonable so far but I am afraid BASSA is now 'prodding the sleeping tiger' to the point that the next move may be a bit more agressive.
Ava in your case I find it unbelievable that when you were warned repeatedly by the company that your staff travel would be withdrawn you didn't even spend the time to pick up a phone or send an email to someone other than BASSA to check if the company could do this. Instead you 'gambled' this vital benefit on which you rely on a short missive from BASSA saying they could return the staff travel to you 'within' 5 minutes. That was dispite loads of people on this board warning potential strikers that BA was justified in withdrawing this 'benefit'. You have to take some responsibility yourself her for getting 'sucked' in by BASSA. The more outrageous fact is now you are willing to pursue yet more IA against the company to put right a wrong that you have only yourself and BASSA to blame for
Just a piece of advice (all bassa members), when you get people trying to point out that what BASSA says is factually not right, please don't always jump to the conclusion that we are trying to scaremonger because we somehow dislike CC and BASSA. It is actually quite the opposite, I have a few good friends who are crew and I don't want any of them to fall foul of the law or end up getting sacked due to them relying on BASSA's ill thought out and dangerous tactics. I once again ask all those BASSA members considering a strike vote this time around, please spend some time researching for yourself the power of BA to dismiss you for taking IA this time around if it is found that the strike ballot is illegal. Based on the fact that BASSA has already said it will be selective in who it send the ballot too and the fact that they are re-hashing some already tried reasons for the strike would sugest to me that BA could have this ruled an 'unlawful' continuation of Industrial Action beyond 12 weeks. Please don't take my word for it though go and ask someone outside of the industry. BA have acutally be very reasonable so far but I am afraid BASSA is now 'prodding the sleeping tiger' to the point that the next move may be a bit more agressive.