British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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By "facilities agreement", I take this to mean office space in T5 for BASSA but did this include de-rostering for reps to conduct union business?
This was what prompted disciplinary proceedings against DH because he did not report for duty for trips before Christmas.
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Come in to work on the next strike day and see how close we are to being able to run that full operation by the numbers of cabin crew prepared to work and the numbers of volunteers backing BA. You'll see that the demands of Bassa are becoming increasingly irrelevant, as the company will simply carry on without them, no matter how long they strike.
There can be no agreement, so there won't be one.
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I have worked for this company for over 17 years. I have climbed the career latter. I think I, and many others, deserve a bit of respect from our current management.
I joined BA over 14 years ago in the front line dealing with customers. I have climbed the career ladder 8 grades since i joined. That is why i am glad W.W and BA have shown ME some respect by not allowing a selfish and narrow sighted minority of CC to destroy all that I have worked for, nor frittered away the sacrifices that the rest of us have made for our future by caving into toddler tantrums by a misguided and disingenuous union.
So, well done on 17 years, well done on being loyal and climbing the ladder as far as you have, I have much respect for that. But that is in the past now. It is you and your union who has thrown respect back in BA's face by cheering and insisting on no negotiation, and refusing to join the rest of us in contributing for the FUTURE. So don't be surprised if you don't feel that the rest of us are respecting you any more.
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Many of us know exactly what our management is planning
From conversations i've had with crew, many are still undecided if they should be striking or not.
So if you have facts that could help them decide, this could be your chance to silence the 'opposition', and win over the high percentage that apparantly crossed the picket line, as well as those too who didn't have to make a decision.
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Excellent, you're getting there!
Come in to work on the next strike day and see how close we are to being able to run that full operation by the numbers of cabin crew prepared to work and the numbers of volunteers backing BA. You'll see that the demands of Bassa are becoming increasingly irrelevant, as the company will simply carry on without them, no matter how long they strike.
There can be no agreement, so there won't be one.
Come in to work on the next strike day and see how close we are to being able to run that full operation by the numbers of cabin crew prepared to work and the numbers of volunteers backing BA. You'll see that the demands of Bassa are becoming increasingly irrelevant, as the company will simply carry on without them, no matter how long they strike.
There can be no agreement, so there won't be one.
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I am trying to protect my job and my income.
Accept the offer. It is a good one. Tell Unite you want it. Vote for it. And then move on.
Sometimes not winning, but simply walking away and moving on can be equally good therapy. There are no winners in any of this. We all lose. Let's stop fighting and start excelling again.
Life, as you are sadly more aware than others, is simply too short. Stop fighting, and give yourself a break. You'll be amazed at how easy it is and how good it feels. ATB.
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You forget that BA is very rare in that it has far higher than usual lengths of service amongst its staff. Crew are not the sole stalwarts of the company as you might assume. The majority of staff whether crew, Checkin-in, ramp, engineering, I.M, managment, ramp etc etc, have ALL given many years to the company and invested time, hard work and loyalty. 35, 45 years service are common across the business. The most recent joiner in my department has 12 years service. We all want a long term future for our company, so that it can give us an ongoing career.
So, well done on 17 years, well done on being loyal and climbing the ladder as far as you have, I have much respect for that. But that is in the past now. It is you and your union who has thrown respect back in BA's face by cheering and insisting on no negotiation, and refusing to join the rest of us in contributing for the FUTURE. So don't be surprised if you don't feel that the rest of us are respecting you any more.
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That may well be true. It would serve well for you to think, if only briefly, what BA, if anything, has to lose by you going on strike anymore. I suspect that each time, the impact diminishes and BASSA are left looking increasingly like an arcane irrelevance.
Also, I note you've dropped the reference to price fixing (a tacit acceptance, I presume, that Mr. Walsh cannot be responsible for things that happened before he joined the airline?) so thank you for that but I wonder if you might consider my earlier question wherein I asked what you think "he" is doing to destroy the brand. I fear you might find that from the outside looking in, there's a groundswell of people (not just other staff groups) who are finally glad the airline is being brought kicking and screaming into the present day. If you wish to be the anachronism that tries to resist all that, by all means, go ahead but be aware that it's an all or nothing strategy and there won't be many looking over their shoulders to check on your wellbeing if your gamble is the wrong one.
MrB
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Ava Hannah
"They have been constantly comparing, and exaggerating, our salaries to other LCC's throughout this dispute with the only purpose to make us appear us overpaid belladonnas".
You have been told already but BA management don't need to dream up figures like BASSA - just look yourself at The UK Civil Aviation Authority. The CAA publish the figures - not the airline.
I do and have worked for a number of airlines, related industries, and very different large companies and by far, BA was the softest on employees bar the local government/civil service. They have all changed to save their industries/jobs - why can't BASSA or do you want to be the latest success like Rover, Miners, Steel industry etc
You have been told already but BA management don't need to dream up figures like BASSA - just look yourself at The UK Civil Aviation Authority. The CAA publish the figures - not the airline.
I do and have worked for a number of airlines, related industries, and very different large companies and by far, BA was the softest on employees bar the local government/civil service. They have all changed to save their industries/jobs - why can't BASSA or do you want to be the latest success like Rover, Miners, Steel industry etc
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Please any striker reading this stop and think what might happen if you strike.
The offer is really good and could have been agreed by negotiation if BASSA had wanted to in the first place.
Bill Francis has today been answering questions on a web chat on the crew forum. Please read it. It answers loads of questions put to him mostly by striking crew.
They are going to give you some staff travel back and in time I am sure they may eventually return it all but that will never happen if you strike. You will more likely lose your job too.
The offer is really good and could have been agreed by negotiation if BASSA had wanted to in the first place.
Bill Francis has today been answering questions on a web chat on the crew forum. Please read it. It answers loads of questions put to him mostly by striking crew.
They are going to give you some staff travel back and in time I am sure they may eventually return it all but that will never happen if you strike. You will more likely lose your job too.
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Then Ava, from one crew member to another, from one parent to another, and from one colleague to another, please can I offer you some sincere advice?
Accept the offer. It is a good one. Tell Unite you want it. Vote for it. And then move on.
Sometimes not winning, but simply walking away and moving on can be equally good therapy. There are no winners in any of this. We all lose. Let's stop fighting and start excelling again.
Life, as you are sadly more aware than others, is simply too short. Stop fighting, and give yourself a break. You'll be amazed at how easy it is and how good it feels. ATB.
Accept the offer. It is a good one. Tell Unite you want it. Vote for it. And then move on.
Sometimes not winning, but simply walking away and moving on can be equally good therapy. There are no winners in any of this. We all lose. Let's stop fighting and start excelling again.
Life, as you are sadly more aware than others, is simply too short. Stop fighting, and give yourself a break. You'll be amazed at how easy it is and how good it feels. ATB.
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Virgin crew costs. Sorry, but just because it is written on a CAA web site, or any other web site for that matter, doesn't mean I have to believe it. And I err on the don't quite believe it side of things. Where do the CAA get there figures from? direct from airlines? Virgin in particular is a private company and not a PLC, it doesn't need, nor I believe, to publish its costs. And remember that the £14k figure is costs not salary. Uniform, training, hotac, transport etc. Take those figures away from £14k and then the allowances, which I'm led to believe are not generous at Virgin, and you're not looking at much. Include staff with 25 years service and the average should rise. It just doesn't add up in my book. I know a few ex Virgin staff and they agree, or they were way above average.
This business of not de-rostering reps. Come on BA, I want this dispute over and so allegedly do you. So why not de-roster the reps so that your proposal can be discussed and just maybe accepted. Its one day, if you want this malaise to be over - show some willing, de-roster the reps. Remember the branch meeting is a two way matter, and lots of crew have lots of questions and points of view to be put to the reps. Its little things like this that make me suspicious that the 'break the union' crowd may have a valid point.
This business of not de-rostering reps. Come on BA, I want this dispute over and so allegedly do you. So why not de-roster the reps so that your proposal can be discussed and just maybe accepted. Its one day, if you want this malaise to be over - show some willing, de-roster the reps. Remember the branch meeting is a two way matter, and lots of crew have lots of questions and points of view to be put to the reps. Its little things like this that make me suspicious that the 'break the union' crowd may have a valid point.
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You have been told already but BA management don't need to dream up figures like BASSA - just look yourself at The UK Civil Aviation Authority. The CAA publish the figures - not the airline.
I do and have worked for a number of airlines, related industries, and very different large companies and by far, BA was the softest on employees bar the local government/civil service. They have all changed to save their industries/jobs - why can't BASSA or do you want to be the latest success like Rover, Miners, Steel industry etc
I do and have worked for a number of airlines, related industries, and very different large companies and by far, BA was the softest on employees bar the local government/civil service. They have all changed to save their industries/jobs - why can't BASSA or do you want to be the latest success like Rover, Miners, Steel industry etc
Most of us want to be part of a success but we are fighting against a nasty management which wants to replace all of us. What else can we do? Sit and do nothing?
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Ava Hannah wrote:
To be honest, in the worst case, your job.
Ava, I don't feel that BASSA have much left in their armoury apart from your quote "Surely we can't give up now"
By contrast, BA has a whole raft of options and the polling of non-union crew is just the start of the end game.
Mr Walsh will surely prevail and it is just a question of when persons supporting further strike action actually sign up or otherwise that will determine their future in British Airways or otherwise.
What have I got to lose to strike during another period? Nothing! Surely we can't give up now.
Ava, I don't feel that BASSA have much left in their armoury apart from your quote "Surely we can't give up now"
By contrast, BA has a whole raft of options and the polling of non-union crew is just the start of the end game.
Mr Walsh will surely prevail and it is just a question of when persons supporting further strike action actually sign up or otherwise that will determine their future in British Airways or otherwise.
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Virgin crew costs. Sorry, but just because it is written on a CAA web site, or any other web site for that matter, doesn't mean I have to believe it. And I err on the don't quite believe it side of things. Where do the CAA get there figures from? direct from airlines?
And remember that the £14k figure is costs not salary. Uniform, training, hotac, transport etc.
Expenditure Total expenditure for the salaries and allowances of all employees. Included are gross salary (before deduction of income tax, pension social welfare and voluntary payments), overtime pay, sales commissions, flying pay and subsistence allowances, (such as cost of living allowances, station and overseas allowances) and all crew hourly flight allowances (i.e. those in excess of travel and incidental expenses).
No hotac, no uniforms, no transport. Just what they get paid. And there won't be many staff with 25 years service as the airline is only 26 years old. Plus they only have one real supervisory grade on board for crew, the IFS. Being a 'senior' doesn't really bring any more money home.
This business of not de-rostering reps. Come on BA, I want this dispute over and so allegedly do you. So why not de-roster the reps so that your proposal can be discussed and just maybe accepted.
Its one day, if you want this malaise to be over - show some willing, de-roster the reps.
Remember the branch meeting is a two way matter, and lots of crew have lots of questions and points of view to be put to the reps. Its little things like this that make me suspicious that the 'break the union' crowd may have a valid point.
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It's quite astounding that on the ESS webchat yesterday with BF, so many crew were (quite rudely on many counts) insisting that BA should give staff travel back, and then they would accept the offer. We had the usual BASSA soundbites "illegal to punish legal industrial action" blah, blah, blah.
The astounding bit is, that, regardless of the legality or illegallity of the removal of staff travel, they just don't see the IRONY of what they're asking for.
Everyone had staff travel BEFORE the strike, which cost us millions, which ruined the reputation of our community, and which inconvenienced lots of our customers. So if they do get it back (and quite frankly I don't mind one way or another) WHAT WILL THEY HAVE ACHIEVED through striking?? NOTHING. NADA. ZILCH.
But remarkably, that does not actually seem to figure in their understanding of the whole situation.
The other astounding bit was how blatantly rude, arrogant and unprofessional they were on a corporate forum. Now, remind me again, which side is the bully in all of this?
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
The astounding bit is, that, regardless of the legality or illegallity of the removal of staff travel, they just don't see the IRONY of what they're asking for.
Everyone had staff travel BEFORE the strike, which cost us millions, which ruined the reputation of our community, and which inconvenienced lots of our customers. So if they do get it back (and quite frankly I don't mind one way or another) WHAT WILL THEY HAVE ACHIEVED through striking?? NOTHING. NADA. ZILCH.
But remarkably, that does not actually seem to figure in their understanding of the whole situation.
The other astounding bit was how blatantly rude, arrogant and unprofessional they were on a corporate forum. Now, remind me again, which side is the bully in all of this?
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
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Once WW has New Fleet running, has his thousands of volunteers, temps and strikebreakers in place, he can allow Militant Fleet to wither and die on the vine. With no work that will happen fast.
Why do you think he has offered non-union members the opportunity to sign up for the separate contract? Once they are separate from the No voting Bassa hardliners, he can offer all those XXXX old contract holders a new contract that they cannot accept, and they leave.
In one fell swoop he rewards non-strikers and gets rid of the militant tendency. And it's all legal as they have self-selected and it's unconnected to the strike.
Clever move, but have Bassa spotted it?
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Unite legal action on staff travel
Does anyone have any concrete info on if, or indeed when , UNITE intend to take BA to court for the reinstatement of staff travel in its original form. Its just that, I heard out on line that UNITE are taking BA to court for the reinstatement of staff travel. It could turn out to be a rumour, though.
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Last edited by AtlasDrawer; 29th Jun 2010 at 22:44. Reason: typo