British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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Why would BF leave any of us sitting at home on full pay and then employ more people also on full pay ( all be it lower) and be therefore paynig two sets of people.
Most crew are more than happy to work down and the only way BASSA could get you all out on strike was to scare you all.
Just take the deal, it is so good. BA get all their savings from New Fleet plus new crew compliments from us ( which we are already working to).
Bill Francis dose not want to force any of us on to New Fleet. He wants a totally new fleet working to new rules and he does not want anyone like you working on it.
He is going to give back staff travel without seniority if you accept and I am sure eventually he may reinstate it completely over time.
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Ava
I could not be less bothered if BA decides to remove another five cabin crew members off the aircraft as long as it's NEGOTIATED and AGREED
Not sure if you are aware of the word on the street regarding job losses in the public and private sectors. I already know of those who work for companies that are 'belt tighteneing' and are losing contracts with the dire consequences.
This will be echoed all over.
Put this into perspective from what you want from your company. An offer that keeps you employed! Not so bad, is it?
Staff travel has to be returned fully without any sanctions. can't commute from JNB with no seniority. I would never get on. In case BA did not know, they earn money on staff travel which would be beneficial to them.
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BA Intranet message - Ballot postponed
A new message has just appeared on the intranet stating the ballot for industrial action has been postponed and that they expect Unite to ballot on the 'final BA offer' via the electoral reform people (ie independent 3rd party).
There will of course be no mention about the full return of staff travel in that offer.
It seems to me that Unite have finally had enough of the BASSA hardliners and are now finally taking the lead. I wonder whether it has anything ot do with the fact BA has made the offer for staff to accept it on an individual basis too.
What next from DH and co. I can't see how they can position this as anything but capitulation from their side???
There will of course be no mention about the full return of staff travel in that offer.
It seems to me that Unite have finally had enough of the BASSA hardliners and are now finally taking the lead. I wonder whether it has anything ot do with the fact BA has made the offer for staff to accept it on an individual basis too.
What next from DH and co. I can't see how they can position this as anything but capitulation from their side???
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'Negotiate' is a word not familier to BASSA. And even if was possible, how long would negotiations take? A year? Two? Three?
Put this into perspective from what you want from your company. An offer that keeps you employed! Not so bad, is it?
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Ana, I think you'll find staff travel is more important to you than it is to BA.
So how long can you afford full fare tickets before you have to call it a day?
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PC767
For someone who didn't go on strike, you appear mighty protective of the BASSA stance. I find that quite confusing.
Nontheless, the reason why I said "blah, blah, blah" was in relation to the BASSA soundbites. Quite honestly, anything you hear from a BASSA supporter is word for word from the BASSA website, and, despite it being proved wrong, they continue. It's starting to get tedious.
So, if BASSA (and indeed you) are so sure of the legal position regarding staff travel, why have they not done a damn thing about it? I have stated previously that the legalities of this will be decided in a court. I have also stated that it doesn't bother me if they do get their staff travel back. But what I object strongly to is this:
- BASSA sent cabin crew a text message before the first wave of strikes telling them not to worry as they would get their staff travel back for them "within 5 minutes". Nearly 5 months later they have done nothing.
- BASSA sent members a text message telling them not to go to work they were officially on strike, and they have led them on a path to nowhere.
In fact, I fail to see what BASSA have done for their members, other than losing them enormous amounts of money, and staff travel, and now possibly putting their jobs on the line. That is what the PCCC is speaking out against. And we will continue to do so, with or without your support.
Can we assume PC767 that because you did not obey the strike call, you have left the union? Therefore you don't support BASSA, and yet you don't support the PCCC. For the record, I, personally, have never said I want to represent people. That will be decided by the Professional Cabin Crew Council members themselves.
What alternative representation would you suggest then being as you don't support either of the only two current possibilities?
For someone who didn't go on strike, you appear mighty protective of the BASSA stance. I find that quite confusing.
Nontheless, the reason why I said "blah, blah, blah" was in relation to the BASSA soundbites. Quite honestly, anything you hear from a BASSA supporter is word for word from the BASSA website, and, despite it being proved wrong, they continue. It's starting to get tedious.
So, if BASSA (and indeed you) are so sure of the legal position regarding staff travel, why have they not done a damn thing about it? I have stated previously that the legalities of this will be decided in a court. I have also stated that it doesn't bother me if they do get their staff travel back. But what I object strongly to is this:
- BASSA sent cabin crew a text message before the first wave of strikes telling them not to worry as they would get their staff travel back for them "within 5 minutes". Nearly 5 months later they have done nothing.
- BASSA sent members a text message telling them not to go to work they were officially on strike, and they have led them on a path to nowhere.
In fact, I fail to see what BASSA have done for their members, other than losing them enormous amounts of money, and staff travel, and now possibly putting their jobs on the line. That is what the PCCC is speaking out against. And we will continue to do so, with or without your support.
Can we assume PC767 that because you did not obey the strike call, you have left the union? Therefore you don't support BASSA, and yet you don't support the PCCC. For the record, I, personally, have never said I want to represent people. That will be decided by the Professional Cabin Crew Council members themselves.
What alternative representation would you suggest then being as you don't support either of the only two current possibilities?
Last edited by HiFlyer14; 30th Jun 2010 at 13:27.
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Ava,
If you knew you had to rely on staff travel to come to work, then after reading and digesting both BAs offer and Bassa's missives (in my view, less than informative propaganda) and having to try to make an informed decision, surely you must have asked the question of yourself...."Do I feel strongly enough about the issue (issues?) we are about to go on strike for, to forego my staff travel? Yes or no?" If the answer was, "Yes", then you really do have to possess sufficient personal accountability to accept the consequences.
However, you are right, it may not be all over; there may be a slim chance it will be returned - albeit with revised seniority at the moment (which I know you intimated was insufficient
), provided the Bassa community shows a modicum of common sense and accepts BAs offer this time.
You have a window of opportunity - please don't waste it.
If you knew you had to rely on staff travel to come to work, then after reading and digesting both BAs offer and Bassa's missives (in my view, less than informative propaganda) and having to try to make an informed decision, surely you must have asked the question of yourself...."Do I feel strongly enough about the issue (issues?) we are about to go on strike for, to forego my staff travel? Yes or no?" If the answer was, "Yes", then you really do have to possess sufficient personal accountability to accept the consequences.
However, you are right, it may not be all over; there may be a slim chance it will be returned - albeit with revised seniority at the moment (which I know you intimated was insufficient
), provided the Bassa community shows a modicum of common sense and accepts BAs offer this time. You have a window of opportunity - please don't waste it.
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Originally Posted by Ava Hannah
Neither to BA as they imposed changes to our working conditions.
After months of fruitless negotiations, Bassa had left BA with no alternative other than imposition by refusing to negotiate in an adult fashion, on the occasions that Bassa did actually show up!
I suggest you read the summary of the Feb court case, it gives a very clear picture of the events leading up to imposition.
Malone & Ors v British Airways Plc [2010] EWHC 302 (QB) (19 February 2010)
Ava,
Part of the problem here is that many strikers are totally ignoring facts that are presented by the company, facts that are presented by independant agancies and facts that are proven in court. I am starting to think that if they are so oblivious to reality then I do not really want them operating on my aircraft in future.
What if the company put out a safety notice? Are they going to decide to implement it only if BASSA say so and "we're not going to bother with that cause it's come from the company?"
Part of the problem here is that many strikers are totally ignoring facts that are presented by the company, facts that are presented by independant agancies and facts that are proven in court. I am starting to think that if they are so oblivious to reality then I do not really want them operating on my aircraft in future.
What if the company put out a safety notice? Are they going to decide to implement it only if BASSA say so and "we're not going to bother with that cause it's come from the company?"
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Please tell me to mind my own business but don't you think it odd that Miss M and Ava post in such an identical manner. I know Miss M hasn't been around for a while but surely these posts are put together by a committee not individuals. Quotes followed by one liner rebuttals straight from the 1970's. My question is why do so many of you take the time to respond to these union wind ups? I agree with all you say in response but if you ignored them they would surely go away.
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BASSA sent cabin crew a text message before the first wave of strikes telling them not to worry as they would get their staff travel back for them "within 5 minutes". Nearly 5 months later they have done nothing.
- BASSA sent members a text message telling them not to go to work they were officially on strike, and they have led them on a path to nowhere.
- BASSA sent members a text message telling them not to go to work they were officially on strike, and they have led them on a path to nowhere.
More money wasted, I presume?
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Hiflyer,
Sorry to confuse you, however I don't view the world in black and white, I have more of a realist stance. This has come down to Walsh V Malone and bugger the rest of us inbetween.
At this time I believe that the PCCC is a toothless chicken, anonymously obeying the whip, and toeing the line. Stop hiding behind every word Francis utters. Show yourselves if you feel so strongly that BASSA are busting BA and offer a third way, the compromise most of us require.
As for the future, well I'm not a fan of the current BASSA leadership, but BASSA seems the strongest starting point for improved industrial relations. Maybe as Walsh elevates himself to Madrid, Malone and Co could stand aside for new elections to take place.
Now, if you actually read my recent posts you would be aware that I fully understand that staff travel may well be sorted via the courts. It may also be sorted by a union and management determined to stop this destructive period of unrest. I am a student of law, intending, to make a career in the legal arena. I understand were UK legislation stops and EU legislation doesn't. I also understand the incompatibility between the two. I have not advised BASSA in this matter, but it seems they are now thinking along the same avenue as myself. I quote from a recent news item on the BASSA site. (Being a non-union member I assume you will not have read it.)
'Unite have also instructed our legal Counsel to progress and submit our application to The European Court of Human Rights for the removal of staff travel as a result of taking part in lawful industrial action. Together with our lawyers we are working through the paperwork and other details you have assisted in providing in response to our recent email, and in respect to the other claims this issue raises. We hope to be able to provide you with a further update very soon.'
Sorry to confuse you, however I don't view the world in black and white, I have more of a realist stance. This has come down to Walsh V Malone and bugger the rest of us inbetween.
At this time I believe that the PCCC is a toothless chicken, anonymously obeying the whip, and toeing the line. Stop hiding behind every word Francis utters. Show yourselves if you feel so strongly that BASSA are busting BA and offer a third way, the compromise most of us require.
As for the future, well I'm not a fan of the current BASSA leadership, but BASSA seems the strongest starting point for improved industrial relations. Maybe as Walsh elevates himself to Madrid, Malone and Co could stand aside for new elections to take place.
Now, if you actually read my recent posts you would be aware that I fully understand that staff travel may well be sorted via the courts. It may also be sorted by a union and management determined to stop this destructive period of unrest. I am a student of law, intending, to make a career in the legal arena. I understand were UK legislation stops and EU legislation doesn't. I also understand the incompatibility between the two. I have not advised BASSA in this matter, but it seems they are now thinking along the same avenue as myself. I quote from a recent news item on the BASSA site. (Being a non-union member I assume you will not have read it.)
'Unite have also instructed our legal Counsel to progress and submit our application to The European Court of Human Rights for the removal of staff travel as a result of taking part in lawful industrial action. Together with our lawyers we are working through the paperwork and other details you have assisted in providing in response to our recent email, and in respect to the other claims this issue raises. We hope to be able to provide you with a further update very soon.'
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Sorry to confuse you, however I don't view the world in black and white, I have more of a realist stance. This has come down to Walsh V Malone and bugger the rest of us inbetween.
It is only BASSA that's dumb enough to try and make it about one person. They're actually stupid enough to think that if they can try and hound him out, the next person will do something different.
Don't you get it? This is what the OWNERS of BA want.
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I am an owner of BA, to the tune of 10000 shares.
The other, more prominent, owners of BA may have set a goal, may have suggested their vision of the future, the what factor, but Walsh is incharge of the how and when.
I am therefore dumb, guilty as charged, and potentially stupid in your eyes. Out of interest Chico (wasn't he a goat herder with bad vocals?), what role do you play in BA?
The other, more prominent, owners of BA may have set a goal, may have suggested their vision of the future, the what factor, but Walsh is incharge of the how and when.
I am therefore dumb, guilty as charged, and potentially stupid in your eyes. Out of interest Chico (wasn't he a goat herder with bad vocals?), what role do you play in BA?
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I have not advised BASSA in this matter, but it seems they are now thinking along the same avenue as myself. I quote from a recent news item on the BASSA site. (Being a non-union member I assume you will not have read it.)
'Unite have also instructed our legal Counsel to progress and submit our application to The European Court of Human Rights for the removal of staff travel as a result of taking part in lawful industrial action. Together with our lawyers we are working through the paperwork and other details you have assisted in providing in response to our recent email, and in respect to the other claims this issue raises. We hope to be able to provide you with a further update very soon.'
'Unite have also instructed our legal Counsel to progress and submit our application to The European Court of Human Rights for the removal of staff travel as a result of taking part in lawful industrial action. Together with our lawyers we are working through the paperwork and other details you have assisted in providing in response to our recent email, and in respect to the other claims this issue raises. We hope to be able to provide you with a further update very soon.'
You don't have to be a student of law to understand that insisting people go on strike, with a promise that they would obtain staff travel back "within five minutes" was an out and out LIE. BASSA didn't know then, and still don't know now, whether it will be returned or not. Many people, believed and trusted them, and our friends and colleagues have been seriously misled by BASSA.
It is that the PCCC object to.
Out of interest, are you still a union member?
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Yes I am still a union member.
I've stated I have no time for the leadership, but they will move on and BASSA will rebuild into a more reasonable organisation. Thats why we don't need the PCCC. You may mock that the BASSA leadership are No people, but the PCCC leadership appear to be Yes people.
The advise BASSA gave prior to the strikes was wrong, indeed it was rubbish. And so I didn't strike, although staff travel was not the only reason.
I blame both sides for the bitterness of this dispute.
I've stated I have no time for the leadership, but they will move on and BASSA will rebuild into a more reasonable organisation. Thats why we don't need the PCCC. You may mock that the BASSA leadership are No people, but the PCCC leadership appear to be Yes people.
The advise BASSA gave prior to the strikes was wrong, indeed it was rubbish. And so I didn't strike, although staff travel was not the only reason.
I blame both sides for the bitterness of this dispute.
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The advise BASSA gave prior to the strikes was wrong, indeed it was rubbish. And so I didn't strike, although staff travel was not the only reasonThe advise BASSA gave prior to the strikes was wrong, indeed it was rubbish. And so I didn't strike, although staff travel was not the only reason.
I blame both sides for the bitterness of this dispute. Today 20:56
I blame both sides for the bitterness of this dispute. Today 20:56
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BA Union Said to Take Neutral Stance Over Pay Vote
Any confirmation of this change in Unite's position ?
British Airways Union Said to Take Neutral Stance Over Pay Vote - BusinessWeek
British Airways Union Said to Take Neutral Stance Over Pay Vote - BusinessWeek