British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)

[SR71]

One can't help, looking from the outside in, suggesting, that in due course, it will be perceived with incredulity that a multi-billion dollar airline could be effectively held to ransom because a certain section of the employees only wanted to travel to particular destinations, on particular fleets because it was financially advantageous to them.

[swalesboy]

I didn't know Duncan Holley was a Guardian reporter.

The Guardian

[Timothy Claypole]

Yep, the Holley style and message both present in that comment from 'BA Manager'!

[Stiffco]

Spot on!

SR71.

You are spot on with your observation and I can assure you that there are probably about 35,000 other employees of BA who are thinking the same.

[64K]

Growth of Mixed Fleet

I've seen the 1250 crew figure mentioned quite a few times. Just for clarity, my understanding is that the new fleet will begin with 90 crew and then grow on a monthly basis, I think by 120-130. That would equate to around 1250 in a year.

(The views above are my own, not those of my employer)

[Doors To Manuel]

AH:

Indeed we have created BA. The people at Waterside might "manage" the company but they never meet and spend as much time with the customers as we do. We have to accustom to and deal with every change they do. A new management takes over and destroys everything which we have achieved. They are not here for life. They are here for a few years before they move onto something else.

What nonsense! There are legions of managers at Waterside who have spent a decade and more helping to steer the company through good times and bad. Just as there are people who create the sales, fix the aircraft and run the airport experience.

Saying that CC 'created' BA is like saying that the server of a hamburger 'created' McDonalds as a thriving profitable company.

I'm rather afraid this post is a manifestation of the 'them and us' attitude, and that CC run the company. Guys, it is a TEAM....don't you get it?

[Caribbean Boy]

swalesboy wrote:

I didn't know Duncan Holley was a Guardian reporter.

The Guardian

Those BA staff who have chosen to volunteer as cabin crew have unwittingly prolonged this dispute and, in all probability, hastened their own demise. Their actions have allowed BA to keep flying rather than to reach a negotiated settlement.

Yeah, this is straight from BASSA. They blame VCC, ignoring the fact that the strikes were in the main broken by regular crew who worked.

The culture of fear is all-pervading; staff are suspicious of their co-workers, of those they report into, and of those that they once thought of as friends.

I don't recognise this at Waterside. Does this "BA Manager" work for BA?

[swalesboy]

I think this CSD USED to work for BA.

[Ava Hannah]

This proposal is laughable. A no strike clause? They wish. I am not accepting this piece of rubbish. We shouldn't even have to vote on it. No more wasting time. We have to ballot NOW. I would have preferred to see a strike in August as it would have had the most possible impact. Until BA is being serious and reasonable and actually wanting to reach an agreement with us, which HAS TO include FULL reinstatement of Staff Travel, I could not be less bothered!

I bought a ticket last night to LHR as I have to get to work and it cost me £500. Willie Walsh is certainly punishing those of us who took industrial action. Step down and allow Keith Williams to take over the negotiations instead and maybe we can actually get out of this mess!

[Copenhagen]

I bought Petrol last night as I had to get to work. 99.9% of the world has to pay market rates to get to work.

It is your choice to live in South Africa, where your salary goes a lot further than if you lived in Uxbridge. Johannesburg is the cheapest major city in the economist survey for expats to live in.

City Mayors: Cost of living - The world's most expensive cities 2009

[Hot Wings]

Ava, be careful what you wish for! From what I hear KW is more hawkish about BASSA than WW. KW is a finance man and has little time for emotions. If he was in charge right now you'd have been given 90 days notice already.

[Juan Tugoh]

More to the point, do you think that perhaps BA can wait until you cannot afford your £500 tickets and fail to show up. Or do you rather hold the belief that you not being able to get to work will bring BA to it's knees? Fail to show up for duty and like DH you will be managed out of the company. Your brave words re not accepting the deal etc will be just hot air.

The reinstatement of ST on your commuting route, as offered by BA, addresses your woes and is the best deal you are likely to get. Keep faith with BASSA and you will probably lose your job, it being impossible for you to continue to commute at commercial ticket costs. Either way I suspect that BA does not really care about the opinions of one obviously disaffected crew member.

Good luck in your illogical campaign.

[the flying nunn]

Ava Hannah

Step down and allow Keith Williams to take over the negotiations instead and maybe we can actually get out of this mess!

Ava I completely disagree with you, with proper representation focused on the best outcome for the members instead of protection of the cushy positions of a few reps/CSDs we would never be in this mess. What's on offer now is hugely inferior to the options that were available last year. BASSA has failed spectacularly in it's responsibility to it's paying membership.

The only people that should resign are the the Charlatans at the helm of the doomed BASSA ship.

They are the ones you should be blaming for your 500 pound commute.

[ltn and beyond]

Ava Hannah,

£500.00 to commute to work, well you must have known this before choosing to give up your staff travel perk. I guess it shows, just how well paid the job is if its worth coming with that sort of commute !!!.

I don't want to see anyone at a loss, but we all have choices, maybe you need to look again now at the choice, staff travel, you made and decide where to go from here. Maybe working closer to home and not having to pay so much to get to work, the down side of that is you may have to start paying tax again i guess.

[Ava Hannah]

I find it very hard to believe that KW is more hawkish than WW. Unite had no problems reaching an agreement with him over the pension deal. That indicates a will of actually wanting to solve a solution as opposed to WW and his rubbish proposals which are not even worth the papers they are written on. KW seems to be willing too to integrate Mixed Fleet onto Euro and Worldwide Fleets instead of allowing it to be a separate fleet which will be working AGAINST us as opposed to WITH us.

We have been hearing for a long time that BA is going to give us 90 days notice. What are they going to do? Issue P45s to over 5000 cabin crew? Unlikely IMHO. They would not be able to run its operation with such a huge crew shortage. Previous strikes caused enough disruption for them regardless what they were saying to the media and everyone else. In a recent letter which I received from them it said The IA in which you took part has severely impacted upon our operation. and this is an indication that they don't know what they are talking about!

Why am I spending £500 on a ticket? Because I have an obligation to come to work and have no other choice. It's a disgrace that BA, one of the leading and largest airlines in the world, treat their employees who take part in a lawful industrial action in this manner. TW has a very valid point. It's vindictive but surely this sort of behaviour is what you can expect from an employer who is after you. I cannot, and will not, accept a proposal which does not include a complete reinstatement of Staff Travel without any SANCTIONS. Full seniority has to be included.

To everyone who crossed the picket line: it's not too late to change your mind should we go on another strike. We CAN win this. BA is NEVER going to thank you for backing them. By reporting for duty, you are supporting this management who is training VCC to do YOUR job. Can't you see the ulterior motive?

[Wirbelsturm]

This proposal is laughable. A no strike clause? They wish. I am not accepting this piece of rubbish. We shouldn't even have to vote on it. No more wasting time. We have to ballot NOW. I would have preferred to see a strike in August as it would have had the most possible impact. Until BA is being serious and reasonable and actually wanting to reach an agreement with us, which HAS TO include FULL reinstatement of Staff Travel, I could not be less bothered!

Delightfully symptomatic of the BASSA hardline.

This proposal is laughable.

Not really, it gives you more guarantee of stable income for the next two to three years than the vast majority of the working population get.

A no strike clause? They wish.

Why, exactly do you think this could be in there? BASSA have threatened IA over everything from hot towels to ingrowing toenails. BA has been a standing joke for years as the CC Union seem to think they know best how to run the company. They can't even run their own Union!

We shouldn't even have to vote on it. No more wasting time. We have to ballot NOW. I would have preferred to see a strike in August as it would have had the most possible impact.

Unless you have been living under a rock then you will have seen that your precious strikes are having little impact with less impact forecast. All the summer strikes would do is alienate the militants more. So, if you wish to hasten your demise and remove yourself from the company please do so.

Until BA is being serious and reasonable and actually wanting to reach an agreement with us, which HAS TO include FULL reinstatement of Staff Travel, I could not be less bothered!

BASSA called for an end to negotiation with BA and a time for action. Why should BA be 'serious' when dealing with a Union that engages discussion with a kindergarten mentality of 'la la la we're not listening 'till you give what we want! la la la'

BA stated, quite clearly, that ST would be withdrawn if staff members took IA. It is non contractural and 'gifted' for various reasons and it states quite clearly in the ST guide that it may be withdrawn at any time for any reason. If you happen to need it to get to work then tough luck. Perhaps getting ST back with no seniority would be a soloution but BA has to stick to its policy here or it alienates all those who chose to work as they apllied common sense.

The fact you have to 'pay' £500 to get to work is your problem and comes from the ability to work in the UK and have a home anywhere in the world. An enviable position some might say.

As to wanting Kieth Williams! You will get your wish! Willie Walsh moves on to become the CEO of Topco and, thus, Kieth Williams boss. Kieth Williams, through all of the financial briefings that were held last year (the ones BASSA couldn't be bothered with), advocated Willie Walshs' position and agreed that the short term pain of confrontation now was better than the long drawn out death rattle of an airline that cannot modernise. He is, if anything, more hardline and determined to rationalise than WW.

Good luck finding a new job in Joburg.

[ltn and beyond]

Many flight crew and cabin crew, have lost earnings due to flights BA cancelled as a result of the unite strikes, how do we start sueing Unite for our losses??

[biteme]

Get a lawyer and try...

[Wirbelsturm]

Unite had no problems reaching an agreement with him over the pension deal.

Here is the problem. Unite had the mandate to negotiate the pensions deal. Unite agreed on behalf of ALL Unite sub branches. Unite would have completed with BA on the Cabin Crew dispute BUT BASSA WON'T LET THEM. BASSA have stipulated that ST is a necessity. BASSA have stipulated that reinstatement is a necessity, BASSA are the only ones who can call off IA and agree a deal. THEY DON'T WANT TO. Unite, Tony Woodley, Derek Simpson and Len McKlusky are powerless to force them and, from the news and the press realeases, frustrated with their incalcitrant child.

It's a disgrace that BA, one of the leading and largest airlines in the world, treat their employees who take part in a lawful industrial action in this manner. TW has a very valid point. It's vindictive but surely this sort of behaviour is what you can expect from an employer who is after you. I cannot, and will not, accept a proposal which does not include a complete reinstatement of Staff Travel without any SANCTIONS. Full seniority has to be included.

ST, as has been discussed many, many times is a perk. You were clearly told it would be removed and it has been. Tough. Not vindictive but symptomatic of your Unions wish to finacially damage the company. Why should you be rewarded for taking ill advised IA when ALL other BA departments realised the dangers and took necessary action. You will get little or no sympathy from the other 35,000 BA employees who live in the real world.

To everyone who crossed the picket line: it's not too late to change your mind should we go on another strike. We CAN win this. BA is NEVER going to thank you for backing them. By reporting for duty, you are supporting this management who is training VCC to do YOUR job. Can't you see the ulterior motive?

Why should we change our minds? What benefit does that bring those who choose to back BA? Never going to thank me? No, possibly not but, unlike many of my friends, I still have a job. Not too late to win? BASSA lost this when the Youtube video of cheering crew was outed. There is no support for this, even less so as social benefits, civil service jobs and pensions and all public funding face the axe.

[BlueUpGood]

Ava

I find it very hard to believe that KW is more hawkish than WW. Unite had no problems reaching an agreement with him over the pension deal.

Hi Ava,

could I suggest you go and find out exactly the extent of UNITE and BASSA 's negotiations over pensions, both this time, and during the last restructuring?

UNITE had no problems, because they did virtually nothing! With respect, your position is straight out of a BASSA press release, which, if you take the trouble to find out, bears little resemblance to the truth on most occasions.