British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

[Golden Ticket]

The purser was removed from the 3class a/c but not the 4class.

When LHR crew are paid the same as LGW crew and in the same way then I feel it is only then that LGW should share the same pain (pay cut).

Why on earth would anybody see it as reasonable for one group of cabin crew doing the same job to take a pay cut to allow better working conditions for another.

[chickenlover]

bacabincrew

Why do you need to cherry pick phrases to try and make a point that isn't there? the phrases you insist on using; 'keep your mouth shut' and 'you will be offloaded' were originally made in context with,and specifically referring to striking crew harassing non-striking crew either in the brief or on-board.
We all read it.
Move on.

[CurlyWurly]

Am hearing that the unions now saying that part of the negiotations will now include reinstatement of travel priviledges once the unions and BA back around the table..
My thoughts? Stop listening to the union and do your bit to save your job for the future.. And do yourselves a favour and start making yourselves look like cool, calm professionals rather than idiots waving signs "I like Willie but I don't like Walsh" and piggy masks..you're losing any tiny bit of public sympathy you may still have.

[Re-Heat]

When LHR crew are paid the same as LGW crew and in the same way then I feel it is only then that LGW should share the same pain (pay cut).

Why on earth would anybody see it as reasonable for one group of cabin crew doing the same job to take a pay cut to allow better working conditions for another.

Problem is that LGW-LHR is a bit of a Ponzi scheme - the hope of a transfer ultimately to LHR makes some people think that lumping it now for the preservation of the future is acceptable, whereas BASSA should have negotiated some equalisation years ago instead of undermining their argument today. That is how HAHAHAHAHAH justifies the contradiction in his/her mind (and I respect him/her for laying out their thoughts on the thread). I do however note that their location is actually listed as LHR, and something in that logic does not add up if he/she is main crew.

We all know that Justice Holland used the specific example of LGW in support of his arguments in favour of the company.


bacrewboy - the message was to act like a professional - nothing more, nothing less. For goodness sake, there is no need to pick an argument by misreading the statement. Nobody threatened to slash your tyres or shun you downroute (unlike BASSA) - it was a statement of fact in accordance with company policy and onboard legal authority.

[Right Engine]

BACabinCrew

"I am assuming then that you have made a note of some of the threats made on here by those that went on strike to "keep their mouths shut" or they will be offloaded. It works both ways doesn't it?"

Will you stop harping on about that statement which I made as being a 'threat'!

I said "Do yourself a favour and keep your mouth shut", which essentially was rather an abrupt way of saying, do not bring the politics into the cabin on days where a strike was not occurring. If you and anyone else who has been on strike can keep to that advice we can all get on with our job and no one needs to get upset. However, if I find any crew member on a flight I am in charge of feels they are being harassed I will take the harasser to task.

So heed the advice, but if you think that is a threat, then you need to re-read your employment guide and revisit the section titled "DIGNITY AT WORK".

[Get Smart]

Newyorker001 - Are we a better team?

In response to your question, do you think this has bought us closer together. Absolutely yes. I went to work and for a change, it was a pleasure to fly without any militants banging on and on about their dead issues. All those that reported were like minded people and went about their jobs in the usual professional way. The flight deck support was fantastic - thank you to all of you.

Thanks to the seemless effort it turned out to be, I have no quarms whatsoever about reporting for my next duty. I will not be intimidated by those on the picket line and for anyone reading this thread still trying to make up their mind, be assured by those of us that went to work - its fine. I was relieved that I'd made the choice when I got there and saw so many faces. As others have said here, it was a liberating experience. It wasn't anything like BASSA have described. Yet another clear example of their constant lies.

So, yes, we as a crew, all felt a unique close bond and were genuinely sorry to say goodbye to each other at the end of the day. The next time we report we can take comfort in the fact that we will be working with the stronger team while the stikers enjoy their free cup of tea and a soggy donut in the rain, with no-one really taking much notice of their cause.

I'm very proud of all of us. In fact, for a change, I felt good about coming to work. I've only ever heard the strikers now say they don't enjoy working for BA and are not proud anymore. If that's the case, no-one's holding a gun to your heads to stay. Go to the job centre why don't you if the grass is so much greener elsewhere?

And another thing, for anyone who is still thinking about reporting/striking. Its now become apparent that BASSA haven't even done their homework as their lawyers are only just frantically flicking through their manuals to check two very important facts out:

1. Loss of pay for the entire duration of absense from work
2. Staff travel taken away for good

I think we all know the answer to these issues now. Its a pitty Unite didn't pick up on it before leading you all out on strike.

If I was considering going out on stike I think I'd want THE FACTS to be crystal BEFORE joining the picket line.

[Abbey Road]

CurlyWurly,

Am hearing that the unions now saying that part of the negiotations will now include reinstatement of travel priviledges once the unions and BA back around the table.

For the benefit of all who didn't see the employee forum held just yesterday, Willie Walsh was questioned about the staff travel issue, again. His reply was absolutely clear - the company gave it lengthy consideration and there will be no, repeat no reinstatement of staff travel for strikers. It will not be entertained in any form, whatsoever!

If BASSA and Unite are claiming that it will be part of their requirement for settlement then they are being disingenuous. They are fully aware that BA has ruled it out completely, so they know perfectly well that no negotiation of any sort will be conducted whilst they hold that as a requirement. To claim otherwise is merely window-dressing for the benefit of their members, to make it appear that their union is doing something, to make it appear that BA is being intransigent.

Unfortunately, the penalty of staff travel withdrawal was very clearly flagged up, well before strike dates were even announced! The unions know that and they burned their members bridges. Any attempt to now claim it is BA's fault is just plain untrue!

[617sqn]

Amazing isn't it?
Can't believe that the Bassa lawyers are only now trying to find out the facts about pay and ST.
By the way, is this the same legal team that said the number of crew on board is contractual?
I would be pretty upset to be lead out on a strike by a union that has not done its homework.
Did Bassa send a statement out beforehand to reassure strikers saying that WW could not dock pay or ST?
BTW any info on how to claim your £30 per day strike pay yet?

[Runway vacated]

The strike ballot

One of the reasons it is very difficult to get any BASSA supporter to actually identify the reason they are on strike is, in my opinion, the wording of the ballot.

In essence BASSA stoked up a storm over an increasingly complex series of offers from BA that were all, essentially, reasonable and fair. The fog of confusion meant that most CC had no idea what was actually being proposed, especially if they chose not to read their ESS mail.

So when the ballot arrived and asked the simple question "Are you prepared to take industrial action. Yes/No", it was a rare shaft of clarity. They were then able to "cut and paste" their personal grievance onto the ballot (why do the pilots get to check into hotels ahead of me/that Captain's wife was a bit snooty/my manager needs a lesson/ New Fleet etc). As a result, whilst nominally this is about imposition, the reality is that many people have cherry-picked personal grievances, and used them to justify their action. After all, it's only to "send WW a message".

Add to them the "hobby jobbers", who have an alternative income stream. They have been told by BASSA for years that they are hard done by, and that this is the final straw. Many have been itching for years to give BA a bloody nose, because, frankly, their "loyalty" extends as far as their self interest, and their personal circumstances enable them to withstand financial consequences that their less affluent colleagues cannot.

To this extent BASSA resembles a "cult" with a "groupthink" mindset that brooks no opposition ("burn the heretics!" etc!). For years they have relied on their union for ALL their operational information, barely acknowledging that it is in fact BA who pays them. When the time came to think outside the box, they failed. One has only to listen to those 2 CSDs on 5live yesterday, utterly convinced of their own arguments, and stunned into incoherence when someone who actually knew what he was talking about (an employment lawyer) gave them "the news in English". Priceless!

Finally you have the genuine strikers. They have looked at the issues, made a principled decision, and acted according to their beliefs - people like HAHAetc. All credit to you for posting your views on here, and also for acting according to your conscience. Whilst you may be in a tiny minority at LGW, you none the less have the absolute right to withdraw your labour.

However,

If we accept that BASSA have got you into the situation you are now in (vis a vis LHR transfers), why do you think that they are the people to get you out of it?

And secondly, how has striking actually advanced your cause?

The end of this saga is inevitable. Any company that can carry out 110% of its planned operations (and 65% of it's normal operations) during an "all out" strike by an "essential" component of its' workforce doesn't really have much to worry about.

It is only a matter of time.

[Abbey Road]

I would be pretty upset to be lead out on a strike by a union that has not done its homework.

617sqn, I don't think the union did any homework before this all started! There was this muddled assumption that throwing a tantrum would cause BA to back off. Big mistake.

[fly12345]

Runway vacated,
Amazing post, thank you for putting into words my understanding of the situation in such a clear and to the point manner, I wish I could copy and paste your brilliant post into other forums where unfortunately the never ending deluded self inflicted brain washing is sadly still going on.

Where do I park this week end??

[etrang]

Nobody threatened to slash your tyres or shun you downroute (unlike BASSA)

Where has BASSA threatened this?

[1stClass]

Yes good question re parking. I don't fancy running into returning crews and having my car defaced as soon as I leave

[Thunderbug]

Ist Class.

Check the Intranet. There is stuff on there about alternatives to parking in the Crew car park. You can go to another LHR carpark and BA will pay (I think the T5 short stay is excluded!), BA wil pay for a taxi / bus / train to T5. You can also pitch up dressed in civies and change at the CRC.

I had not heard about the vandalism in the crew car park. A real shame that some folk folk feel that they need to express a differing opinion in such a manner.

See you there - I'm in working for the whole 4 days, on both sides of the flight deck door!

T'Bug

[Chuchinchow]

I've lost my staff travel now, and have nothing to lose anymore.

, said HAHA etc.

You have, you know: your job, your livelihood, your home (if you have a mortgage), your car (if you are repaying a loan to buy it), good relationships with your immediate family due to stress and the hardship your unemployment will cause.

Think on.

[Re-Heat]

Where has BASSA threatened this?

It was reported on this thread by someone who had witnessed that a car had been vandalised - read back a few pages. Union members have threatened to shun people downroute (to which my bracketed comment on BASSA was appended). Before you jump down my throat that BASSA does not sanction these actions - active union members are prone to extreme responses against those who disagree with their views. As typified by the other forum.

[D2R]

Runway Vacated,
You are absolutely right....unfortunately.

I voted yes, before Xmas, not due to the imposition of the removal of one crew member, but mainly due to the fear of further impositions. I felt that we had to make a stand, and show that we had terms andconditions that had to be adhered to.

Then BASSA announced a 12 day strike, and I prayed the injunction would be called off.....The fact that crew were not given any information before it all went public, was shocking and actually embarrassing.

BASSA announce new strike days, without letting the crew see the offer BA proposed. This is when I decided they were looking out for themselves, and not us. If the offer was balloted, and accepted, BASSA would probably lose members as it became apparent BA had come up with a decent solution, therefore we could all save ourselves £16 a month by leaving BASSA.
From that point onwards, they have looked weak, and foolish. Asking BA to put an offer back on the table, that they still didnt recommend....refusing yet another offer without consulting it members, and finally leading them to a dead end strike, which has no beneficial outcome.

I went to work last week, having resigned from BASSA, and I will again next week. I am now making an informed, and adult decision, one that I should have made when I was first balloted.

[Rover90]

A question of time

I have been following the posts for the last 24 hours and like the hundreds of other observers of this thread, I have been waiting for a simple explanation as to why this strike is going to further the UNITE/BASSA cause and what it would take to get a settlement.

Runway Vacated concludes his post with:

The end of this saga is inevitable. Any company that can carry out 110% of its planned operations (and 65% of it's normal operations) during an "all out" strike by an "essential" component of its' workforce doesn't really have much to worry about.

It is only a matter of time.

And like everything in this affair, Mr Walsh has clearly given plenty of notice as to what will happen and sure enough it has, much to the surprise of some participants in this dispute.

I cannot quote him accurately but words to the effect of: “If this matter is not concluded by June, then new contracts will be issued”. Perhaps someone will know where to find the actual text. He also alluded when speaking after the breakdown of talks last Friday that the formal recognition of UNITE/BASSA had been downgraded to the lowest possible level.

Given that UNITE/BASSA have a position that insists that re-instatement of staff travel is part of any settlement and that suspended crew are re-instated, you can see that June will come around very quickly for some.

Whilst you are checking the legal position with O H Parsons about loss of staff travel, payment during strike periods, 90 day notice of change of contract, ask them about compulsory redundancies and who goes first. I think you will find it is not automatically done on date of joining any more but more on performance.

Who would you select, someone who had just breached the terms of their contract by striking, or someone who had shown loyalty for their employer by continuing to work during a strike despite some pretty unpleasant rhetoric and now allegedly some physical actions.

Off to work tomorrow so avoiding this particular decision but have already made my position clear last weekend. I will listen to any argument but none is forthcoming from the pro strike camp merely a load of reactive spin.

Mr Walsh has been very clear and unequivocal and I am confident that if there is no change of heart by UNITE/BASSA then some very unfortunate people will be looking at their P45 in June and the accompanying cheque will be one weeks pay for each year of service.

Tell me why this can't and won't happen.

[1stClass]

Cheers Thunderbug. I had a quick look at the site the other day but I'll have a better look this eve. It is handy to know. Shame we can't use short term. That would be good if you feel lazy

[fly12345]

We can use any public car park around LHR (including short term)and BA will reinbourse any parking fees up to 200 pounds

I will be parking at cc car park, I think it is probably more secure than private ones.