British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Answers please
Hello 'imabacrewmembergetmeoutofhere', oops, sorry had a few wines, bacrewmember ... I'm still really waiting for a reply to BUG's post #275. It seems Juan O has gone a little quiet since then, but you're here representing the strikers so perhaps you could go and re-read it and come back with a response? Take your time. But not too long cos this will all be over in a few weeks and we'll never know your thoughts? 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sunny East Sussex
Age: 49
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No it is not a threat, it is a statement of fact. IFCE management have kow-tow'ed to BASSA for too long. They are now being empowered to manage their employees.
Not everything you disagree with in life is bullying/harassment.
Whilst I welcome your input on this thread, if you turn up at my briefing with some of the attitude you have displayed towards flight crew on this thread you won't stay there long.
Not everything you disagree with in life is bullying/harassment.
Whilst I welcome your input on this thread, if you turn up at my briefing with some of the attitude you have displayed towards flight crew on this thread you won't stay there long.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Twilight Zone near 30W
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Given that it's a breach of JPMs to use your phone on board without the permission of the captain, I'd be very careful about making the call.
I must confess to my post being a bit TiC though.
I must confess to my post being a bit TiC though.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: M3 usually!
Posts: 491
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The problem with getting the Captains permission is you have to drag him off his iphone first!
TiC also!
The last one of those didn't go too well. I recall some quite rude questions and our CEO saying he had better things to do. Perhaps wait til May before trying that one again with our new CEO.
TiC also!
i think it would be refreshing to have the Q&A session with WW
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah, thats the problem. Some will abuse the opportunity. Maybe he could hold a waterside forum for crew only or something and webex it to other crew areas ?? who knows - but engaging crew is a difficult challenge but probably the key to any solution i suspect.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BA's offer
Tiramisu,
I'm glad that you worked, especially as it was on your off days. Volunteer rebookers such as myself have been rebooking pax whose flights have been cancelled or under threat of cancellation. Crew such as you who worked last weekend made our job easier, got pax away and helped BA to keep losses down to only £7m a day.
BA's last offer was inferior to the one before, but not especially so as far as I can see. One of the most significant things that Willie Walsh said was that he was not going to reduce the offer. Let's hope that either Unite accepts it or cabin crew get the chance to vote on it.
I'm glad that you worked, especially as it was on your off days. Volunteer rebookers such as myself have been rebooking pax whose flights have been cancelled or under threat of cancellation. Crew such as you who worked last weekend made our job easier, got pax away and helped BA to keep losses down to only £7m a day.
the best way forward for all of us is to accept BA's original offer to save all our jobs.
Last edited by Caribbean Boy; 24th Mar 2010 at 22:09.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interestingly, over the course of the strike days, and since, the cabin crew DOMs were told that when crew call with with duty hours issues etc etc their first question to the caller must be "Have you spoken to the captain?". Gone are the days of ringing the DOMs and finding them meekly agreeing to whatever BASSA demands. BASSA are now irrelevant to the day to day operation.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Surrey
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Forum was pulled because it was being used as a tool to bash the company with (not just on this topic either). Nothing was discussed particularly positively or objectively and it was a really negative site to host on their own intranet.
The main reason the forum was pulled was because some crew were being bullied and harassed to an extreme level. The night a particular incident happened, I witnessed it first hand and reported it. It was also as you have mentioned above but not primarily.
Mods, apologies for the above as it's not that relevant.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gone are the days of ringing the DOMs and finding them meekly agreeing to whatever BASSA demands. BASSA are now irrelevant to the day to day operation.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tiramasu
Sorry - i didn't realise that, but there had been rumours about it being pulled for a month or two before it did due to the general negativity it created. Not something that really should be hosted internally. Very little, if at all, constructive came out of that Forum unfortunately :-(
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Surrey
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Carribean Boy,
Thank you.
One thing you didn't mention in your excellent post about the Forum today, was how Willie Walsh praised your department for the wonderful job you did working round the clock to re-book passengers.
That to me must have been exhausting, well done and I take my hat off to you.
I do hope we get a chance to vote on the offer, it's an excellent idea and something most cabin crew would want.
I'm BA CC and the above are my own views as always.
Thank you.
One thing you didn't mention in your excellent post about the Forum today, was how Willie Walsh praised your department for the wonderful job you did working round the clock to re-book passengers.
That to me must have been exhausting, well done and I take my hat off to you.
I do hope we get a chance to vote on the offer, it's an excellent idea and something most cabin crew would want.
I'm BA CC and the above are my own views as always.
Last edited by Tiramisu; 25th Mar 2010 at 01:05. Reason: Disclaimer added
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just an observation - I had to go to T5 on Sunday round mid day, to pick up a son from uni, who was returning on the bus.
Bus was running late, so i killed some time up in the coffee shop in departures - apart from uniform staff and lots of managers in tabbards (?) the place was like the Marie Celest !
I thought WW said it was "business as usual "?
Bus was running late, so i killed some time up in the coffee shop in departures - apart from uniform staff and lots of managers in tabbards (?) the place was like the Marie Celest !
I thought WW said it was "business as usual "?
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
chipmunk - its very often quiet landside. T5 is designed to get people checked in and through security swiftly. Other than early in the morning, it often appears very quiet up at the COSTA cafe.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BASSA admission of lies..............
BASSA > Latest News
Accurate Snapshot of the operation For Sunday 21st March 2010
Mar 24th, 2010 by admin
We realise there was a lot of confusing information over who went on strike, who didn’t, what flights actually went and which were empty etc etc and we fully accept some of our information was unintentionally wide of the mark, but it was a very confusing and difficult situation to make sense off, or to get accurate figures, the information available varied wildly depending on the source and obviously management were not going to provide it either!
British Airways was certainly not averse to being economical with the truth, including passengers carried on down route sectors, inbound flights and point-to-point franchise services. In their “crew who went to work” statistics they included crew that reported for inbound services, and those who left LHR before the actual strike; all of whom were not even part of the dispute, two glaring examples of statistical manipulation. One crewmember even has two letters from BA - one thanking him for working through the dispute and one telling him he had lost his staff travel. Another on her part-time week had a letter thanking her for working through the dispute. Both these would have been included in BA’s statistics handed out to the media. It should have come with a health warning.
People who broke the strike were “bussed in” from secret hotels in Old Windsor and Vanguard House in blacked out unmarked vehicles to secret entrances, which to be honest, was all a bit pointlessly dramatic as, in reality, it was pretty evident who they were to inbound crews, they obviously underestimate the power of galley FM!
This is only a one-day snapshot, but the others were pretty much the same, so it’s a reasonable bench mark to use.
The specific departures, passenger loads (or lack off as the case may be) as reported in the media and the numbers of crew that operated each flight on Sunday is reproduced below
- Disclaimer -we have not printed, stored, received shared or seen sight of any individual names.
Specific flight information For Sunday 21st March 2010
*A whole slew of Short-Haul cancellations and subs far too many for us to list specific details
The cabin crew figures of course includes ALL the pilot volunteers, ICCs and temp crew etc
LHR Worldwide departures would normally be estimated to be around 78 if a full schedule was to be operated. These are the aircraft that departed.
Flight number of pax Flight deck /cabin crew,
117F JFK 0/0/0/0 3/0
165F TLV 0/0/0 2/0
73 AUH/MCT 30/10/112 3/8
207F MIA 0/0/0/0 3/0
253 NAS 0/0/0/0 2/7
195F IAH 0/0/0/0 3/0
279F LAX 0/0/0/0 3/0
125F BAH 0/0/0/0 3/2
185 EWR 13/48/32/127 2/9
139 BOM 0/0/0/0 2/14
75F LOS 0/0/0/0 2/0
103 DFW 11/48/32/127 3/11
63 EBB 0/0/0/0 2/7
213/BOS 3/46/40/20 2/8
175 JFK 14/48/40/124 2/8
285 SFO 0/0/0/0 3/0
217 IAD 12/48/23/127 2/8
67 PHL 3/45/40/124 2/8
143F DEL 0/0/0/0 3/3
283F LAX 0/0/0/0 3/0
107 DXB 8/30/22/105 2/8
5F NRT 0/0/0/0 3/3
219 DEN 48/24/200 2/8
209 MIA 0/0/2/30 3/14
177F JFK 0/0/0/0 2/0
229F BWI 0/0/0/0 2/0
227 ATL 1/29/40/123 3/8
49 SEA 8/42/37/122 3/9
287 SFO 2/3/4/8 3/14
81 ACC 24/12/158 2/8
269 LAX 1/3/3/67 3/14
265F IAD 0/0/0/0 2/0
289F PHX 0/0/0/0 3/0
269 LAX 1/3/3/67 3/14
257 DEL 0/4/121 3/14
39 PEK 7/47/23/137 3/9
123F MRU 0/0/0 3/0
95F YYZ 0/0/0 2/0
275F LAS 0/40/30/200 3/11
115 JFK 12/47/38/139 2/11
215 BOS 3/42/23/144 3/8
103F YYC 0/0/0/0 3/0
99 YYZ 6/39/42/144 2/11
155F CAI 0/0/0/0 3/0
293 IAD 11/48/33/134 2/11
69 PHL 0/0/0/0 2/7
85 YVR 10/33/36/256 3/14
55F JNB 0/0/0/0 3/14
11F SIN 0/0/0/0 2/0
9 BKK 14/52/38/230 3/14
249 GIG 0/41/19/138 3/8
BA25F HKG 0/0/0/0 3/2
BA133 JED 5/14/0/143 2/11
BA183F JFK 0/0/0/0 2/0
BA239 BOS 4/31/44/145 2/11
BA59 CPT 1/10/1/24 3/14
BA57 JNB 1/2/3/25 3/14
BA31 HKG 7/54/36/242 3/14
BA105F DXB 0/0/0/0 3/0
BA199 BOM 15/43/31/123 2/11
BA247 GRU EZE 0/1/1/5 3/14
BA109 DXB 14/43/34/122 2/11
BA157 KWI 5/23/8/89 2/11
BA43 CPT 0/40/21/195 3/11
BA163 TLV 0/4/0/10 2/7
Accurate Snapshot of the operation For Sunday 21st March 2010
Mar 24th, 2010 by admin
We realise there was a lot of confusing information over who went on strike, who didn’t, what flights actually went and which were empty etc etc and we fully accept some of our information was unintentionally wide of the mark, but it was a very confusing and difficult situation to make sense off, or to get accurate figures, the information available varied wildly depending on the source and obviously management were not going to provide it either!
British Airways was certainly not averse to being economical with the truth, including passengers carried on down route sectors, inbound flights and point-to-point franchise services. In their “crew who went to work” statistics they included crew that reported for inbound services, and those who left LHR before the actual strike; all of whom were not even part of the dispute, two glaring examples of statistical manipulation. One crewmember even has two letters from BA - one thanking him for working through the dispute and one telling him he had lost his staff travel. Another on her part-time week had a letter thanking her for working through the dispute. Both these would have been included in BA’s statistics handed out to the media. It should have come with a health warning.
People who broke the strike were “bussed in” from secret hotels in Old Windsor and Vanguard House in blacked out unmarked vehicles to secret entrances, which to be honest, was all a bit pointlessly dramatic as, in reality, it was pretty evident who they were to inbound crews, they obviously underestimate the power of galley FM!
This is only a one-day snapshot, but the others were pretty much the same, so it’s a reasonable bench mark to use.
The specific departures, passenger loads (or lack off as the case may be) as reported in the media and the numbers of crew that operated each flight on Sunday is reproduced below
- Disclaimer -we have not printed, stored, received shared or seen sight of any individual names.
Specific flight information For Sunday 21st March 2010
*A whole slew of Short-Haul cancellations and subs far too many for us to list specific details
The cabin crew figures of course includes ALL the pilot volunteers, ICCs and temp crew etc
LHR Worldwide departures would normally be estimated to be around 78 if a full schedule was to be operated. These are the aircraft that departed.
Flight number of pax Flight deck /cabin crew,
117F JFK 0/0/0/0 3/0
165F TLV 0/0/0 2/0
73 AUH/MCT 30/10/112 3/8
207F MIA 0/0/0/0 3/0
253 NAS 0/0/0/0 2/7
195F IAH 0/0/0/0 3/0
279F LAX 0/0/0/0 3/0
125F BAH 0/0/0/0 3/2
185 EWR 13/48/32/127 2/9
139 BOM 0/0/0/0 2/14
75F LOS 0/0/0/0 2/0
103 DFW 11/48/32/127 3/11
63 EBB 0/0/0/0 2/7
213/BOS 3/46/40/20 2/8
175 JFK 14/48/40/124 2/8
285 SFO 0/0/0/0 3/0
217 IAD 12/48/23/127 2/8
67 PHL 3/45/40/124 2/8
143F DEL 0/0/0/0 3/3
283F LAX 0/0/0/0 3/0
107 DXB 8/30/22/105 2/8
5F NRT 0/0/0/0 3/3
219 DEN 48/24/200 2/8
209 MIA 0/0/2/30 3/14
177F JFK 0/0/0/0 2/0
229F BWI 0/0/0/0 2/0
227 ATL 1/29/40/123 3/8
49 SEA 8/42/37/122 3/9
287 SFO 2/3/4/8 3/14
81 ACC 24/12/158 2/8
269 LAX 1/3/3/67 3/14
265F IAD 0/0/0/0 2/0
289F PHX 0/0/0/0 3/0
269 LAX 1/3/3/67 3/14
257 DEL 0/4/121 3/14
39 PEK 7/47/23/137 3/9
123F MRU 0/0/0 3/0
95F YYZ 0/0/0 2/0
275F LAS 0/40/30/200 3/11
115 JFK 12/47/38/139 2/11
215 BOS 3/42/23/144 3/8
103F YYC 0/0/0/0 3/0
99 YYZ 6/39/42/144 2/11
155F CAI 0/0/0/0 3/0
293 IAD 11/48/33/134 2/11
69 PHL 0/0/0/0 2/7
85 YVR 10/33/36/256 3/14
55F JNB 0/0/0/0 3/14
11F SIN 0/0/0/0 2/0
9 BKK 14/52/38/230 3/14
249 GIG 0/41/19/138 3/8
BA25F HKG 0/0/0/0 3/2
BA133 JED 5/14/0/143 2/11
BA183F JFK 0/0/0/0 2/0
BA239 BOS 4/31/44/145 2/11
BA59 CPT 1/10/1/24 3/14
BA57 JNB 1/2/3/25 3/14
BA31 HKG 7/54/36/242 3/14
BA105F DXB 0/0/0/0 3/0
BA199 BOM 15/43/31/123 2/11
BA247 GRU EZE 0/1/1/5 3/14
BA109 DXB 14/43/34/122 2/11
BA157 KWI 5/23/8/89 2/11
BA43 CPT 0/40/21/195 3/11
BA163 TLV 0/4/0/10 2/7
So it seems BASSA have acknowledged the lies?
Also, BA publicly stated that they had operated 70 freighter flights during the weekend did they not? Any flight number at BA with the letter "f" after it is a freighter flight. I'll let you do the maths.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: England
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is that a threat?
bacabincrew,It seems to me that are you are angling for a fight which I sincerely hope no one rises to.Informed crew are making decisions based on facts and not union lies and bluff. Your tactics on this forum appear bullish and threatening, easy to do behind a keyboard.
Last edited by Middy; 24th Mar 2010 at 20:30. Reason: spelling
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am new to this forum and this is my first post. Just wanted to throw in my 2p worth!!
From what I can see, certainly in our office within BA, Unite look as though they may be the long term losers in this. Oh yes they seem to be very good at the propoganda and convincing any press that will listen that they have huge support. However propoganda is exactly what it is!! They are disputing the figures BA are stating of flights that operated and numbers of crew who did work, however, BA has a legal obligation to provide accurate figures to the business/ city/ shareholders etc - the Union do not have any such obligation.
The actual number of crew who did strike was very small compared to the 30,000 members Len McKluskey raved on about last week. My question to Unite would be, why did they not ballot all of those 30,000. If the strike affects the airline they way they want it to, then it will be all our jobs at risk, surely we have a right to vote on that too. The answer is, they daren't ballot the rest of the airline as they wouldn't have got the YES vote they so desperately wanted.
BA has proven over the last week that it can operate a robust schedule without the small number who striked. Yes I know it cannot be sustained long term, but then neither can the loss of pay that the crew who do strike are suffering and there seems to be even more crew prepared to work this weekend.
Unite will not win this battle!! They have taken the crew out on strike against changes that have already been implemented and ruled by the high court as legal etc. Their proposal instead is to have all staff accept a pay cut. Well I for one don't agree, I am not due a payrise and can't remember when I last got one, but I love my job and am proud to work for this amazing company and with the state of this country at the minute, I am grateful I am working.
I know for a fact that the very least Unite have lost is many members from around the airline. I know of at least 40 or 50 people in my office (including me) who have cancelled their union subsricptions.
I talk to many of our passengers every day and in my experience there is very little public support for the crew but also that most people can see that it is not the crew themselves but the small minded union leaders waging their own little war that are causing the problems.
From what I can see, certainly in our office within BA, Unite look as though they may be the long term losers in this. Oh yes they seem to be very good at the propoganda and convincing any press that will listen that they have huge support. However propoganda is exactly what it is!! They are disputing the figures BA are stating of flights that operated and numbers of crew who did work, however, BA has a legal obligation to provide accurate figures to the business/ city/ shareholders etc - the Union do not have any such obligation.
The actual number of crew who did strike was very small compared to the 30,000 members Len McKluskey raved on about last week. My question to Unite would be, why did they not ballot all of those 30,000. If the strike affects the airline they way they want it to, then it will be all our jobs at risk, surely we have a right to vote on that too. The answer is, they daren't ballot the rest of the airline as they wouldn't have got the YES vote they so desperately wanted.
BA has proven over the last week that it can operate a robust schedule without the small number who striked. Yes I know it cannot be sustained long term, but then neither can the loss of pay that the crew who do strike are suffering and there seems to be even more crew prepared to work this weekend.
Unite will not win this battle!! They have taken the crew out on strike against changes that have already been implemented and ruled by the high court as legal etc. Their proposal instead is to have all staff accept a pay cut. Well I for one don't agree, I am not due a payrise and can't remember when I last got one, but I love my job and am proud to work for this amazing company and with the state of this country at the minute, I am grateful I am working.
I know for a fact that the very least Unite have lost is many members from around the airline. I know of at least 40 or 50 people in my office (including me) who have cancelled their union subsricptions.
I talk to many of our passengers every day and in my experience there is very little public support for the crew but also that most people can see that it is not the crew themselves but the small minded union leaders waging their own little war that are causing the problems.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Windsor
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are BA making money out of fuel hedges ?
I assume that a lot of the fuel our company bought ahead of time at much cheaper than $80 per barrel in the fuel futures market to be used for last weekend was sold to other airlines for a decent profit. This might explain why the losses reported were so little.