British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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if you continue to go on strike like this, one day the company will be gone forever.
after a few weeks, a new company will come from nowhere, same plane, same manager, different name like "British Airlines"(only 4 letters to white out)
all they have to do is to hire young and cheap staff, very cheap, no Staff travel,...
is it what you want?
after a few weeks, a new company will come from nowhere, same plane, same manager, different name like "British Airlines"(only 4 letters to white out)
all they have to do is to hire young and cheap staff, very cheap, no Staff travel,...
is it what you want?
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if you continue to go on strike like this, one day the company will be gone forever.
In addition to the cabin crew who are flying, BA has trained 1000 volunteers as temporary crew and has launched another request internally for more volunteers.
Once he has enough volunteers and non-striking crew to operate near normal services, sadly, I think WW intends to sack the strikers.
BA will survive, but thoe who stood up for what they believed in won't and the Labour Party, supposedly the working persons' champion, will have allowed the British freedom to withdraw labour.
Whether one agrees with the strike or not, (and, personally, I think there is a lot more to all of this than meets the eye) these are sad times for British Democracy.
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Latest installment from the Guardian.
British Airways told to hit union 'where it hurts' ? leaked document | Business | The Guardian
Surprised that it's been brought up today? Nope. The timing smells, and as for the spin?
Surprised that there is a report into BA/CC/Union relatioships in the aftermath of the '97 dispute? Nope. In fact I'd be gobsmacked if there WASN'T such a report.
Surprised there might be a section about how to end the relationships? Nope. Essentially think of it as a marriage guidance report... one option will be separation/divorce! The consultant would be remiss not to mention it especially as the relationships in '97 were so strained.
Surprised it was an independant consultant? Come on! BA's addicted to 'em!
Now this is pure guess-work, but this is how I might layout such a report...
-5% Executive Summary
-20% History & current status
-5-10% Competitors equivalent setups
-60% Main Options/Findings/Recommendations
- As Is (BA/BASSA/CC89/Unite/CC)
If not already done so, list key points to change
- As Is but change key personnel (been mentioned on earlier threads henky et al)
This is likely why BillF and new team are now in place. You can't win eh bacabincrew? (I seem to recall someone saying that something like 60% of the new management team are ex-CC. Please could someone re-link. ta).
Did the CC89/BASSA reps change? Anyone?
- As Is but various other detail changes, procedures, etc
- I seem to recall Joint training being mooted
- Split/change roles? Say CC89 negotiate X,Y. BASSA A,B,C. Everyone Pay.
-5-10% Other options (Unlikely/No Go/Easy to rule out options, but included for completeness)
- Works Councils
- after X years - look to merge the branches to simplify things?
- No Union at all (Ryanair) - probably listed reasons why a Union/Representative body simplfies things for BA.
- New Union (see CC89 history for background/plus/minuses), not affiliated to Unite.
- New 'BA CC only' Union, unaffiliated to TUC.
- Generally the Separation/Divorce mechanics spelled out in brief. Included here would have been pointers to the NSP regs, Legalities, HR issues, TUC issues, Comms, PR issues, etc, etc.
Now if you take just that last bit, then you've got the article's smoking gun.
Actually, I'd be surprised if the reps hadn't seen the report in '97.
British Airways told to hit union 'where it hurts' ? leaked document | Business | The Guardian
Surprised that it's been brought up today? Nope. The timing smells, and as for the spin?
Surprised that there is a report into BA/CC/Union relatioships in the aftermath of the '97 dispute? Nope. In fact I'd be gobsmacked if there WASN'T such a report.
Surprised there might be a section about how to end the relationships? Nope. Essentially think of it as a marriage guidance report... one option will be separation/divorce! The consultant would be remiss not to mention it especially as the relationships in '97 were so strained.
Surprised it was an independant consultant? Come on! BA's addicted to 'em!
Now this is pure guess-work, but this is how I might layout such a report...
-5% Executive Summary
-20% History & current status
-5-10% Competitors equivalent setups
-60% Main Options/Findings/Recommendations
- As Is (BA/BASSA/CC89/Unite/CC)
If not already done so, list key points to change
- As Is but change key personnel (been mentioned on earlier threads henky et al)
This is likely why BillF and new team are now in place. You can't win eh bacabincrew? (I seem to recall someone saying that something like 60% of the new management team are ex-CC. Please could someone re-link. ta).
Did the CC89/BASSA reps change? Anyone?
- As Is but various other detail changes, procedures, etc
- I seem to recall Joint training being mooted
- Split/change roles? Say CC89 negotiate X,Y. BASSA A,B,C. Everyone Pay.
-5-10% Other options (Unlikely/No Go/Easy to rule out options, but included for completeness)
- Works Councils
- after X years - look to merge the branches to simplify things?
- No Union at all (Ryanair) - probably listed reasons why a Union/Representative body simplfies things for BA.
- New Union (see CC89 history for background/plus/minuses), not affiliated to Unite.
- New 'BA CC only' Union, unaffiliated to TUC.
- Generally the Separation/Divorce mechanics spelled out in brief. Included here would have been pointers to the NSP regs, Legalities, HR issues, TUC issues, Comms, PR issues, etc, etc.
Now if you take just that last bit, then you've got the article's smoking gun.
Actually, I'd be surprised if the reps hadn't seen the report in '97.
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bealine - not sure about your theory that WW's endgame includes sacking strikers when the time is right. You could be spot on, but maybe not ....... Either way it's obviously not something he's going to voice openly
one thing we do know is that whatever intentions he has stated, he has a track record of following them through. In contrast, far too much of BASSA's spin revolves around the militant tendency's over-active imagination rather than clear and calm analysis of facts. And this surely explains how so many naive and unthinking CC end up believing fictitious 'information' eg re on-board crew numbers, as correctly pointed out by midman
Honest and loyal CSD's have given a reality check above (Tiramisu, Clarified) as regards the true practical effect of 'imposed changes'. They know they have a well-rewarded position and are being treated fairly. CSD's who don't want to recognise this are in for a big shock should they find themselves job-hunting in the outside world,.where the skill sets of a CSD simply don't warrant the sort of package currently enjoyed in the rarerified land of BA. And I wonder will BASSA still be there to comfort them ? Hmmmm........ let me think about that .......
one thing we do know is that whatever intentions he has stated, he has a track record of following them through. In contrast, far too much of BASSA's spin revolves around the militant tendency's over-active imagination rather than clear and calm analysis of facts. And this surely explains how so many naive and unthinking CC end up believing fictitious 'information' eg re on-board crew numbers, as correctly pointed out by midman
Honest and loyal CSD's have given a reality check above (Tiramisu, Clarified) as regards the true practical effect of 'imposed changes'. They know they have a well-rewarded position and are being treated fairly. CSD's who don't want to recognise this are in for a big shock should they find themselves job-hunting in the outside world,.where the skill sets of a CSD simply don't warrant the sort of package currently enjoyed in the rarerified land of BA. And I wonder will BASSA still be there to comfort them ? Hmmmm........ let me think about that .......
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what a reception they had waiting for them" ,2 crews in the lobby shouting SCAb and booing ,crew running in from pool to show their anger as well
In my experience so far, the fear of intimidation is all coming from the strike breaking crews.
It is beyond belief that BASSA think it is sensible to tell crew how their members are intimidating others.
Controversial, moi?
This was sent last night from BASSA to its members. Blatant intimidatory lies about TV crews and the press:
Thinking of going to work? Mar 26th, 2010 by admin
It’s all about the numbers.
You need to realize that the current “leadership” of British Airways isn’t interested in you - not one tiny bit. You’re a number. No more and no less.
Yet, for the next four days every single person will become an incredibly valuable number to British Airways.
Why? Because everything that happens in the next few days will be about numbers. Mr. Walsh has staked his reputation on the fact that the correct numbers of crew will report for work over the next four days to man his operation and convince the press that he has won. If he is able to do that, then he will, for all intents and purposes win the day.
BA have now quietly revealed to the press that two thousand crew took part in the first strike action. It would now also appear that the figures issued for reporting for work was inflated by using crew who obviously reported normally for inbound services down route and so were not part of the strike.
If you do report for work during the strike please be aware that British Airways has arranged for television crews and reporters to be stationed inside the crew report centre to film and report live on the numbers of crew who break the strike. This is designed to divide us and used for propaganda purposes against your striking colleagues.
Please be aware that everything will not be as it appears. Sadly some 700 pilot and 340 of our other colleagues have volunteered to be strike breaking cabin crew and will be wearing your uniform. 90 flights have been ‘wet leased” to the following airlines:
Viking airlines
Titan
Jet 2
Euro Atlantic
Astraeus
Iberia
Open skies
Air Finland
It is imperative you believe us when we tell you - this was never about cost saving, it was about breaking you, your agreements and your lawful right to effective union representation in your workplace.
Your union is made up of a handful of cabin crew trying our very best to protect you from what we know is coming just around the corner. We face a determined management that is willing to spend millions of pounds to crush us. You now really need to ask yourself why?
We haven’t got millions of pounds - we only have our effort, our blood, sweat and tears to give to you. We have tried our hardest to warn you about what’s ahead. If people still don’t get it, they will very soon.
We cannot stop you going to work if that’s what you chose to do. It is a free country. We can only ask that you don’t go to work for all our sakes. Please do be aware of the damage you will cause not only to others, but ultimately to yourself and how your actions will be used in the press to give Mr. Walsh a credibility he scarcely deserves.
We may not have the money and resources but we do have you, and with your support we will not lose.
It does not matter if you worked during the first strike. Support us now, before it’s too late!
Please come down to Bedfont. It is your time, and we need you!
It’s all about the numbers.
You need to realize that the current “leadership” of British Airways isn’t interested in you - not one tiny bit. You’re a number. No more and no less.
Yet, for the next four days every single person will become an incredibly valuable number to British Airways.
Why? Because everything that happens in the next few days will be about numbers. Mr. Walsh has staked his reputation on the fact that the correct numbers of crew will report for work over the next four days to man his operation and convince the press that he has won. If he is able to do that, then he will, for all intents and purposes win the day.
BA have now quietly revealed to the press that two thousand crew took part in the first strike action. It would now also appear that the figures issued for reporting for work was inflated by using crew who obviously reported normally for inbound services down route and so were not part of the strike.
If you do report for work during the strike please be aware that British Airways has arranged for television crews and reporters to be stationed inside the crew report centre to film and report live on the numbers of crew who break the strike. This is designed to divide us and used for propaganda purposes against your striking colleagues.
Please be aware that everything will not be as it appears. Sadly some 700 pilot and 340 of our other colleagues have volunteered to be strike breaking cabin crew and will be wearing your uniform. 90 flights have been ‘wet leased” to the following airlines:
Viking airlines
Titan
Jet 2
Euro Atlantic
Astraeus
Iberia
Open skies
Air Finland
It is imperative you believe us when we tell you - this was never about cost saving, it was about breaking you, your agreements and your lawful right to effective union representation in your workplace.
Your union is made up of a handful of cabin crew trying our very best to protect you from what we know is coming just around the corner. We face a determined management that is willing to spend millions of pounds to crush us. You now really need to ask yourself why?
We haven’t got millions of pounds - we only have our effort, our blood, sweat and tears to give to you. We have tried our hardest to warn you about what’s ahead. If people still don’t get it, they will very soon.
We cannot stop you going to work if that’s what you chose to do. It is a free country. We can only ask that you don’t go to work for all our sakes. Please do be aware of the damage you will cause not only to others, but ultimately to yourself and how your actions will be used in the press to give Mr. Walsh a credibility he scarcely deserves.
We may not have the money and resources but we do have you, and with your support we will not lose.
It does not matter if you worked during the first strike. Support us now, before it’s too late!
Please come down to Bedfont. It is your time, and we need you!
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I am one of those crew that is erring about going to work tomorrow. I dont agree with the way the union is being ran, but I dont trust the company either. What has put me off today is hearing/reading about the reception the crews had waiting for them down route. My destination is to a hotel, where there are several crews staying. I really dont fancy hiding in my room for several days.
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ZILLI,
Last week I was down-route and all inbound crews at the hotel where we usually stay were accommodated at a different hotel, I cannot comment on all hotels on the network but in my experience there was no mixing of non striking crews and pro strike crews where I was staying.
Last week I was down-route and all inbound crews at the hotel where we usually stay were accommodated at a different hotel, I cannot comment on all hotels on the network but in my experience there was no mixing of non striking crews and pro strike crews where I was staying.
ZILLI
For obvious reasons I can't say to much but I know the company has looked at destinations where there's a possible conflict and has made strenuous to avoid interaction between striking and non-striking crews.....
It's somewhat ironic that in some comms BASSA are claiming crews have been subject to aggro downroute and using that as a stick to beat BA. Remind again who is doing the alledged intimidating downroute?
(fly... beat me to it)
It's somewhat ironic that in some comms BASSA are claiming crews have been subject to aggro downroute and using that as a stick to beat BA. Remind again who is doing the alledged intimidating downroute?
(fly... beat me to it)
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Zilli
Have a chat with crew ops, you may well find that you will be accommodated in another hotel anyway. BA are doing everything they can to minimise contact downroute when in uniform, bear in mind it may be difficult for others to work out what your roster is.
Talk to your Flight Crew as well. They will support you. You won't be on your own.
Have a chat with crew ops, you may well find that you will be accommodated in another hotel anyway. BA are doing everything they can to minimise contact downroute when in uniform, bear in mind it may be difficult for others to work out what your roster is.
Talk to your Flight Crew as well. They will support you. You won't be on your own.
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As I said before, I dont trust BA either, and speaking to ops who tell me we will be in a different hotel prior to me going to work, only to find out we are in the same hotel, is a bit late in the day to realise you have made a mistake isnt it?
I was not working during the last strike days, and I really am struggling with myself about going to work during these days. As I said, I dont agree with Bassa/reps, whom I think have an agenda to protect their cushy terms and conditions as reps/csds, but I do have sympathy for my colleagues who are being led like lemmings.
If I decide to go to work I will use a taxi, and will go with a heavy heart. If on arrival I see the crc empty of usual crew, I will be tempted to turn straight around and leave I think, but as I said the thing that worries me most is going to work not knowing exactly where I will end up, and with who, and also who will be waiting in the hotel for us.
I was not working during the last strike days, and I really am struggling with myself about going to work during these days. As I said, I dont agree with Bassa/reps, whom I think have an agenda to protect their cushy terms and conditions as reps/csds, but I do have sympathy for my colleagues who are being led like lemmings.
If I decide to go to work I will use a taxi, and will go with a heavy heart. If on arrival I see the crc empty of usual crew, I will be tempted to turn straight around and leave I think, but as I said the thing that worries me most is going to work not knowing exactly where I will end up, and with who, and also who will be waiting in the hotel for us.
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If this is true about crews being intimidated at hotels ( assume it was witnessed by hotel guests and hopefully the flight crew). If reported to the company ( and hopefully these people will be ) that will be a straight red card from the company as WW has clearly stated that initmidation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with. These staff will be very quickly shown the fast route to the dole queue. Apart from the above they also fall under two counts of EG901 that I can think of those being.
Conduct prejudicial to the good name of British Airways.
And. Abusive, rude or offensive behaviour towards, or in the presence of a customer.
Conduct prejudicial to the good name of British Airways.
And. Abusive, rude or offensive behaviour towards, or in the presence of a customer.
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Do NOT let the comments made by BASSA about media presence at CRC put you off coming to work if you want to report for duty:
Email sent to all cabin crew from BA:
Remember, you have the right to come to work - just as you have the right to withdraw your labour!
The views expressed above are personal and not those of my employer.
Email sent to all cabin crew from BA:
Dear colleagues
We understand that there are rumours that British Airways has arranged for media organisations to film crew arriving at the CRC during the strike action.
This is completely untrue.
BA and BAA are working closely together to ensure that no media are allowed access to CRC in order to support crew to come to work with dignity.
In addition, it has been agreed with the owners of Heathrow Airport that there will no permits for media to broadcast, film or take photographs in the terminal buildings and their surrounds. Any broadcast media or photographers in the terminals will be politely asked to leave. Film crews should base themselves at the Renaissance Hotel on Bath Road as normal.
Full details of all the support available to crew, including the press office details if you are approached by journalists, can be found on the IFCE Microsite.
We understand that there are rumours that British Airways has arranged for media organisations to film crew arriving at the CRC during the strike action.
This is completely untrue.
BA and BAA are working closely together to ensure that no media are allowed access to CRC in order to support crew to come to work with dignity.
In addition, it has been agreed with the owners of Heathrow Airport that there will no permits for media to broadcast, film or take photographs in the terminal buildings and their surrounds. Any broadcast media or photographers in the terminals will be politely asked to leave. Film crews should base themselves at the Renaissance Hotel on Bath Road as normal.
Full details of all the support available to crew, including the press office details if you are approached by journalists, can be found on the IFCE Microsite.
The views expressed above are personal and not those of my employer.
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ZILLI - i think any reasonable person would sympathise with your concerns, and ultimately you must be brave enough to do whatever your conscience tells you. Meanwhile take comfort from earleyboy's comments : if there are, whether now or at some future point, to be any dismissals of striking CC, then those who have adopted intimidatory, abusive or bullying tactics are putting themselves (helpfully for WW) right at the top of the list
last week the overall operating schedule was around 60% and for this second strike BA mgt are predicting 75%. As has been said many times BA simply cannot put out false data because as a listed plc they must not knowingly mislead shareholders or the Stock exchange authorities. BASSA on the other hand, being answerable to nobody, can continue with as much unverified spin as they choose, although as we know many members have stopped their subscriptions as the truth finally dawns (shades of "there are no American troops in Baghdad" as was mentioned here some time ago
)
if this weekend's predicted 75% overall sched moves up to, say, 85% next time then this could hardly be described as a strike much longer. More like 15% absentee rate......??
last week the overall operating schedule was around 60% and for this second strike BA mgt are predicting 75%. As has been said many times BA simply cannot put out false data because as a listed plc they must not knowingly mislead shareholders or the Stock exchange authorities. BASSA on the other hand, being answerable to nobody, can continue with as much unverified spin as they choose, although as we know many members have stopped their subscriptions as the truth finally dawns (shades of "there are no American troops in Baghdad" as was mentioned here some time ago
) if this weekend's predicted 75% overall sched moves up to, say, 85% next time then this could hardly be described as a strike much longer. More like 15% absentee rate......??
ZILLI
I am flying to a certain destination this weekend where there would be a possibility of err, "interaction" if the routine accommodation arrangements stayed in place. With that in mind I spoke to both Flight Ops and also some of the crew (not management) who went to the same destination last weekend. The reply I got from everybody was that arrangements had been changed, there was no conflict last weekend and no chance of conflict this weekend...
I also know that in at least one case last weekend a Captain had signalled a request for accommodation changes whilst airborne, because of his cabin crew's concerns...and that the requested change was approved by the company.
As for CRC and Car Parks, remember that the pickets are not allowed anywhere near the Car Parks and/or T5, and both are being patrolled by lots of security folks. I also promise you CRC will not be full of strange new unusual faces, but it certainly will be full.
I hope that helps - at the end of the day it's you that's got to make the decision. I wish you well...
I also know that in at least one case last weekend a Captain had signalled a request for accommodation changes whilst airborne, because of his cabin crew's concerns...and that the requested change was approved by the company.
As for CRC and Car Parks, remember that the pickets are not allowed anywhere near the Car Parks and/or T5, and both are being patrolled by lots of security folks. I also promise you CRC will not be full of strange new unusual faces, but it certainly will be full.
I hope that helps - at the end of the day it's you that's got to make the decision. I wish you well...
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It is imperative you believe us when we tell you - this was never about cost saving, it was about breaking you, your agreements and your lawful right to effective union representation in your workplace.
ok they are not accountants but you don't need to be to understand the concept of recession and competition and the LOSS the company is making.
What is happening to BASSA is out of their own making, their will to break Willie Walsh (this whole mess seems to be all about WW, the shameful behaviours of the strikers in denigrating WW is a proof of this). Why do they have to make this about BA wanting to break the CC???
I should ask, how CAN they spread lies and propaganda knowing how it affects their members, tolerate bullying and harassment just to get to their objectives (eliminate WW)?
When we had to apply for our jobs it was because of the need for cost cuttings. The same is for IFCE, why is this so difficult to understand?
If WW really wanted to go on about imposition and breaking the union, wouldn't it just be easier to force CR, instead of getting BA in this mess of offering VR and then not being able to change how we operate following the departure of hundreds of cabin crew?
How do we get from there to jumping at BA wants to break the Union??? They really have to take a grip on reality. Those I spoke to were the ones that when WW joined said they were not going to give in to his tactics. This was when the man hadn't even done anything yet!
Suggestion:if they want a war, there are few around the world. If they want to spread lies and manipulate information, then they should join a political party! otherwise they should just start doing what they are paid to do: NEGOTIATE and leave their personal agendas at home! if they had not announced the strike dates when BA had given them a new proposal, WE WOULD NOT BE HERE!
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I'm in CRC.
No media to be seen, and the place is fuller than normal.
There won't be any intimidation down route, not if those crew want to keep their jobs.
As an example I commuted over last night and there were several crew paxing in uniform, and a couple in civvies. There was also a crew poscab -ing back to lhr. Nothing was said....... No probs.
No media to be seen, and the place is fuller than normal.
There won't be any intimidation down route, not if those crew want to keep their jobs.
As an example I commuted over last night and there were several crew paxing in uniform, and a couple in civvies. There was also a crew poscab -ing back to lhr. Nothing was said....... No probs.
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"If this is true about crews being intimidated at hotels ( assume it was witnessed by hotel guests and hopefully the flight crew). If reported to the company ( and hopefully these people will be ) that will be a straight red card from the company as WW has clearly stated that initmidation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with. These staff will be very quickly shown the fast route to the dole queue. Apart from the above they also fall under two counts of EG901 that I can think of those being.
Conduct prejudicial to the good name of British Airways.
And. Abusive, rude or offensive behaviour towards, or in the presence of a customer."
Does that mean WW and most of the BA management are all on red cards now then, the amount of bullying and harrasing they have been doing must mean they have quite a collection now ...
Conduct prejudicial to the good name of British Airways.
And. Abusive, rude or offensive behaviour towards, or in the presence of a customer."
Does that mean WW and most of the BA management are all on red cards now then, the amount of bullying and harrasing they have been doing must mean they have quite a collection now ...
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Christmaslights
Totally agree with your comments. Have just been watching BBC where an Independant air travel consultant has just been commenting that BA are not trying to break the union but is trying to re-jig industrial relations. Other airlines particularly those in the East are delivering a premium quality service at a lower cost and are taking business away. Changes will have to take place. BA is not seeking to cut crews pay but they are asking for more flexibility in the way crew work, for the airlines long term survival. Surely this is in the interest of everyone.
Controversial, moi?
Does that mean WW and most of the BA management are all on red cards now then, the amount of bullying and harrasing they have been doing must mean they have quite a collection now ...