British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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From Willie Walsh, Daily Mail, dated March 13th, just a few snippets re recent discussions on here:
"We have been talking to Unite for more than a year about ways of reducing cabin crew costs. In all that time, the union has offered no more than temporary palliatives or grand headline figures with negligible substance."
"...we have put together a package that involves no pay cut for existing crew."
"...we made a modest reduction in our onboard crew numbers on flights from Heathrow. On a 747, for example, we trimmed the complement of crew from 15 to 14. And we now include the crew supervisor in the cabin routines to maintain customer service levels. These are the changes Unite tried to reverse through legal action – despite the fact that for years it has agreed to operate our flights from Gatwick with equivalent numbers."
I feel Gatwick crew may just pawns to help boost support. The last industrial ballot a couple of years back (the Hassell hate campaign, etc) there were 12 issues on the table. Gatwick I am led to believe were added later during discussions over a 6p increase in Breakfast payment. If that was the only thing on the table for Gatwick, would they have gone on strike? I may be wrong with the facts (please correct me if so) but I feel the Union has let down our LGW crew, then used them to boost ballot figures.
Members are constantly told - "Heathrow! Don't let it happen at Heathrow what happened at Gatwick."
Then theres, "Gatwick! Support Heathrow, its your future!
Whats all this about transfers being at risk? Did I miss it? Where was that proposed by BA?
Six
"We have been talking to Unite for more than a year about ways of reducing cabin crew costs. In all that time, the union has offered no more than temporary palliatives or grand headline figures with negligible substance."
"...we have put together a package that involves no pay cut for existing crew."
"...we made a modest reduction in our onboard crew numbers on flights from Heathrow. On a 747, for example, we trimmed the complement of crew from 15 to 14. And we now include the crew supervisor in the cabin routines to maintain customer service levels. These are the changes Unite tried to reverse through legal action – despite the fact that for years it has agreed to operate our flights from Gatwick with equivalent numbers."
I feel Gatwick crew may just pawns to help boost support. The last industrial ballot a couple of years back (the Hassell hate campaign, etc) there were 12 issues on the table. Gatwick I am led to believe were added later during discussions over a 6p increase in Breakfast payment. If that was the only thing on the table for Gatwick, would they have gone on strike? I may be wrong with the facts (please correct me if so) but I feel the Union has let down our LGW crew, then used them to boost ballot figures.
Members are constantly told - "Heathrow! Don't let it happen at Heathrow what happened at Gatwick."
Then theres, "Gatwick! Support Heathrow, its your future!
Whats all this about transfers being at risk? Did I miss it? Where was that proposed by BA?
Six
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I am crew for a Charter carrier and can see the argument from both sides. As someone who didn't have any rights and was told pay cut, demotion loss of crew member it was very frustrating, upsetting, demoralising and hard to take. We were told these changes were for the good of the company accept or there would be no company which in deed they have been our share price and bookings are healthy.
This week I find myself in a different position that as a BA passenger, who booked last July with friends to ski in Whistler. On Tuesday we found by accident as no one contacted us that our flight was canx. We spoke to customer services who were very helpful and understanding and have re-booked us. Our flight to YVR was approx 10 hours we are now going to SFO at 11.35am monday with a 7 hour lay over for a 2 hour shuttle to YVR arriving midnight (ie 8am Tuesday) we have 2 children and have been told there will be no compensation not even a hotel room.
I know you are trying to protect yourselves but spare a thought for those like us who are the innocent parties in all this.
This week I find myself in a different position that as a BA passenger, who booked last July with friends to ski in Whistler. On Tuesday we found by accident as no one contacted us that our flight was canx. We spoke to customer services who were very helpful and understanding and have re-booked us. Our flight to YVR was approx 10 hours we are now going to SFO at 11.35am monday with a 7 hour lay over for a 2 hour shuttle to YVR arriving midnight (ie 8am Tuesday) we have 2 children and have been told there will be no compensation not even a hotel room.
I know you are trying to protect yourselves but spare a thought for those like us who are the innocent parties in all this.
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Wing2009
Good to see the full range of views, but feel your comments are largely ill-informed given the body of knowledge on this thread. You are welcome to those views, but suggest you read some of the earlier comments on the conduct of the union and the facts behind the dispute.
I take issue in particular with your point on greed (I disregard the distasteful slavery comment, which won't garner much support in the public eye, given the very real economic recession the world has endured). Shareholders have earned a total of just £0.34p in total dividends per share over the past 10 years and halved in share price. Given that money is largely pension fund cash that pays real people a retirement, I don't think it is unreasonable that they ask that their capital earns an economic return.
Now, under full communism, if you want to go there, I think you will find most people on a flat wage that is nowhere near that provided today by BA or even the open market for cabin crew...
Good to see the debate widen though.
Good to see the full range of views, but feel your comments are largely ill-informed given the body of knowledge on this thread. You are welcome to those views, but suggest you read some of the earlier comments on the conduct of the union and the facts behind the dispute.
I take issue in particular with your point on greed (I disregard the distasteful slavery comment, which won't garner much support in the public eye, given the very real economic recession the world has endured). Shareholders have earned a total of just £0.34p in total dividends per share over the past 10 years and halved in share price. Given that money is largely pension fund cash that pays real people a retirement, I don't think it is unreasonable that they ask that their capital earns an economic return.
Now, under full communism, if you want to go there, I think you will find most people on a flat wage that is nowhere near that provided today by BA or even the open market for cabin crew...
Good to see the debate widen though.
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As crew in Holland we now (since 2-3 yrs ago) have to pay income tax on standby tickets - which has increased their cost substantially and made booked travel on loco's more attractive for short breaks. Arguments that an empty seat is not worth much of anything were not accepted by the Dutch version of the IRS.
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Latest from BASSA
Latest from Lizanne.
I can't, of course, guarantee that this is fiction - but it certainly ticks all the boxes that BASSA would like to tick if they were to fabricate such a letter...
BASSA > Latest News
I WENT TO WORK
Mar 25th, 2010 by admin
We received this via e mail this morning. It is a genuine letter from someone who went to work
I went to work during the strike.
It was the hardest decision work wise, I’ve ever made. It was also the lowest point in my career with B.A. I did it for what I believed were fairly unique personal reasons.
I want to share with you want it actually felt like to do this.
I got a taxi in as I didn’t want to use the crew car park. this was okay but as I got out at terminal 5, I felt as though everyone was staring at me even though I was not in uniform.
I found a toilet and changed into my uniform, nearly forgetting to remove all my name badges. I went into CRC, this had it’s windows blacked out, but everyone can see you going in. Inside was busy, all the usual faces behind the desks, managers every where, and seemingly quite a few crew. I realised my attempts to remain anonymous were probably a waste of time.
I reported to the desk, and swiped in. there was no hero’s welcome, no "well done, thanks for coming", in fact, no information at all.
I went to the coffee shop where most of the "crew" seemed to be, but as I looked around I didn’t recognise anyone, there were a lot of young faces and I realised lots of very new looking uniforms. I got to the briefing room where I was told by a manager my flight might be cancelled and if so, they would try and find another trip for me. I didn’t want another trip, the whole point of me going was to keep my
MBT’s, but of course I had forgotten about the disruption agreement.
Eventually, they decided the flight was going. it was a *** trip, we had eight crew. Two of these were pilots, one was an engineer, and two were new temps. there were only three "real crew" including me.
The briefing was not good. the SCCM did not get the ABS until half way through. One of the pilots failed his SEP questions and had to be held back, as I left, I saw the manager talking to the SCCM and the pilot. Needless to say the pilot stayed on the trip.
On board, there was only eight of us so there was no pre board service, I had to keep reminding the others that doors had to be covered on the ground, and two of the replacement crew did not know the doors procedures when we pushed back.
The service, if you can call it that was embarrassing. Only W/T drinks bars, Only cold food, no duty free and still the first service went on for hours.
The replacement crew was excited and chatty, I just wanted it all to end. I felt like a traitor and couldn’t stop thinking about my friends I knew were not working, or worse, were suspended. When we got there, we were smuggled out of the airport like criminals. Even at the hotel, we were told of the measures in place to stop arriving crew’s the next day from identifying us. It just felt wrong. The flight crew and replacement crew wanted to go out for a "celebratory drink", I had nothing to celebrate,
I felt cheap. I felt that I had "sold out" my friends, and worse, helped the company get a step closer to taking away all the aspects of this job I did like.
The reality I realised was the company is bluffing and playing a dangerous game with safety. There was only three real crew with any cabin experience on my flight and I heard in CRC, others went with less. Most went without passengers.
You get no real thanks for breaking the strike and the crew report centre was chaotic. The managers were all sticking to the mantra that more crew had reported than expected. I don’t believe that, and I saw no convincing evidence of this.
I know there will be others out there who might be about to make the same difficult choice I did. my advice is please, think again
I WENT TO WORK
Mar 25th, 2010 by admin
We received this via e mail this morning. It is a genuine letter from someone who went to work
I went to work during the strike.
It was the hardest decision work wise, I’ve ever made. It was also the lowest point in my career with B.A. I did it for what I believed were fairly unique personal reasons.
I want to share with you want it actually felt like to do this.
I got a taxi in as I didn’t want to use the crew car park. this was okay but as I got out at terminal 5, I felt as though everyone was staring at me even though I was not in uniform.
I found a toilet and changed into my uniform, nearly forgetting to remove all my name badges. I went into CRC, this had it’s windows blacked out, but everyone can see you going in. Inside was busy, all the usual faces behind the desks, managers every where, and seemingly quite a few crew. I realised my attempts to remain anonymous were probably a waste of time.
I reported to the desk, and swiped in. there was no hero’s welcome, no "well done, thanks for coming", in fact, no information at all.
I went to the coffee shop where most of the "crew" seemed to be, but as I looked around I didn’t recognise anyone, there were a lot of young faces and I realised lots of very new looking uniforms. I got to the briefing room where I was told by a manager my flight might be cancelled and if so, they would try and find another trip for me. I didn’t want another trip, the whole point of me going was to keep my
MBT’s, but of course I had forgotten about the disruption agreement.
Eventually, they decided the flight was going. it was a *** trip, we had eight crew. Two of these were pilots, one was an engineer, and two were new temps. there were only three "real crew" including me.
The briefing was not good. the SCCM did not get the ABS until half way through. One of the pilots failed his SEP questions and had to be held back, as I left, I saw the manager talking to the SCCM and the pilot. Needless to say the pilot stayed on the trip.
On board, there was only eight of us so there was no pre board service, I had to keep reminding the others that doors had to be covered on the ground, and two of the replacement crew did not know the doors procedures when we pushed back.
The service, if you can call it that was embarrassing. Only W/T drinks bars, Only cold food, no duty free and still the first service went on for hours.
The replacement crew was excited and chatty, I just wanted it all to end. I felt like a traitor and couldn’t stop thinking about my friends I knew were not working, or worse, were suspended. When we got there, we were smuggled out of the airport like criminals. Even at the hotel, we were told of the measures in place to stop arriving crew’s the next day from identifying us. It just felt wrong. The flight crew and replacement crew wanted to go out for a "celebratory drink", I had nothing to celebrate,
I felt cheap. I felt that I had "sold out" my friends, and worse, helped the company get a step closer to taking away all the aspects of this job I did like.
The reality I realised was the company is bluffing and playing a dangerous game with safety. There was only three real crew with any cabin experience on my flight and I heard in CRC, others went with less. Most went without passengers.
You get no real thanks for breaking the strike and the crew report centre was chaotic. The managers were all sticking to the mantra that more crew had reported than expected. I don’t believe that, and I saw no convincing evidence of this.
I know there will be others out there who might be about to make the same difficult choice I did. my advice is please, think again
Certainly looks like a BASSA piece,
Yes crew report was busy and the paperwork was later than usual in being finalised but hardly chaos....the briefing I sat in on was thorough and nobody, not even the pilots, "failed" anything.
Well many of us who went to work recognised lots of people, many of them "older" hands.....
In addition the writer needs to ask themselves why such extreme measures were being taken to protect their identity...it sure as heck wasn't to protect them from the company.
Yes crew report was busy and the paperwork was later than usual in being finalised but hardly chaos....the briefing I sat in on was thorough and nobody, not even the pilots, "failed" anything.
I went to the coffee shop where most of the "crew" seemed to be, but as I looked around I didn’t recognise anyone, there were a lot of young faces and I realised lots of very new looking uniforms.
In addition the writer needs to ask themselves why such extreme measures were being taken to protect their identity...it sure as heck wasn't to protect them from the company.
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Re post #434 (hahahaha)
Yes but of the "40" that turned up at LGW, how many of them were
1. Rostered?
2. Actually BA employees (crew) and not family friends etc?
Breakdown the numbers please............... just so it's clear and no spinning.
Yes but of the "40" that turned up at LGW, how many of them were
1. Rostered?
2. Actually BA employees (crew) and not family friends etc?
Breakdown the numbers please............... just so it's clear and no spinning.
Usual disclaimers apply!
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Dave
I wouldn't pay too much attention to that 'letter' if it's anything like the diatribe that unite sent out to all the other members who are in engineering. After all its a union for engineering that glibly goes on about 'ageing and ill maintained aircraft', about recruiting engineers for a more professional body (the ALAE) and warnings about not copying in senior managers in emails of complaint.
I wouldn't pay too much attention to that 'letter' if it's anything like the diatribe that unite sent out to all the other members who are in engineering. After all its a union for engineering that glibly goes on about 'ageing and ill maintained aircraft', about recruiting engineers for a more professional body (the ALAE) and warnings about not copying in senior managers in emails of complaint.
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If the whole point of going to work was to keep the MBT perhaps they should have a rethink anyway..
Not at all convinced this is genuine..but regardless, why would you recieve a hero's welcome just for turning up to work??
Not at all convinced this is genuine..but regardless, why would you recieve a hero's welcome just for turning up to work??
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volunteer
Hi,
I have volunteered as crew support a couple of days ago and was on the crew bus. Thanks to those of you who have been warm and friendly.
I hope our presence was somehow useful, even if just for those crew who were not around during the weekend and do not know what to expect.
I did not have any trouble, and did not witness any tension between crew, but it was nice to be there and get to chat with some of the cabin and flight crew.
I am volunteering again at the weekend, so for those of you who will come to work, I am looking forward to seeing you and hopefully make you feel the appreciation we all feel for your commitment.
Dave,
I am not sure if that's a real letter or not. If it is, I can only feel sorry for this person, but as far as the number of crew reporting and the comments about CRC, we have had plenty of accounts of crew that worked during the weekend that told us about the feelings in CRC.
It seems to me that this is again another form of manipulation from BASSA. People that come to work are not criminals, nor are they treated like ones.
On the contrary, every effort has been made to protect those who wish to come to work, offer them support with our presence.
I have volunteered as crew support a couple of days ago and was on the crew bus. Thanks to those of you who have been warm and friendly.
I hope our presence was somehow useful, even if just for those crew who were not around during the weekend and do not know what to expect.
I did not have any trouble, and did not witness any tension between crew, but it was nice to be there and get to chat with some of the cabin and flight crew.
I am volunteering again at the weekend, so for those of you who will come to work, I am looking forward to seeing you and hopefully make you feel the appreciation we all feel for your commitment.
Dave,
I am not sure if that's a real letter or not. If it is, I can only feel sorry for this person, but as far as the number of crew reporting and the comments about CRC, we have had plenty of accounts of crew that worked during the weekend that told us about the feelings in CRC.
It seems to me that this is again another form of manipulation from BASSA. People that come to work are not criminals, nor are they treated like ones.
On the contrary, every effort has been made to protect those who wish to come to work, offer them support with our presence.
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[quote]I reported to the desk, and swiped in. there was no hero’s welcome, no "well done, thanks for coming", in fact, no information at all.[quote]
Why oh why should you get a thanks for coming or heros welcome!!!! It is your job, your supposed to turn up, be there and know what to do
Why oh why should you get a thanks for coming or heros welcome!!!! It is your job, your supposed to turn up, be there and know what to do
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gaspath
I am still waiting for my "letter" courtesy of the Post Office, but it seems Unite is spreading it's bullying and threats to Engineers as well. That will get short shrift for sure!
Anyway, who the F*** do they think they are.
I wouldn't pay too much attention to that 'letter' if it's anything like the diatribe that unite sent out to all the other members who are in engineering. After all its a union for engineering that glibly goes on about 'ageing and ill maintained aircraft', about recruiting engineers for a more professional body (the ALAE) and warnings about not copying in senior managers in emails of complaint.
Anyway, who the F*** do they think they are.
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The Letter
The more I read this letter, the more I am convinced it's a fake. There's just too many 'messages' in it that BASSA have been trying to get across for the past few weeks.
First part of letter emphasising guilt.
Message: Few crew are going in.
Message: You won't stay on your original trip
Message: Few crew going in
(BASSA just couldn't help themselves, here)
Message: Not safe
Message: All the VCC will be incompetant. Not safe.
Message: Passengers will be hostile, it will be hard work.
Message: Guilt.
Message: By working you are helping Willie Walsh reduce your own T's & C's
This is cut & paste from BASSA's publicity dept.
Message: BA are bluffing & won't be able to hold on much longer - BASSA will win in the end and then how will you feel?
Message: There is no upside to breaking the strike.
And regarding...
I was operating on Saturday, and CRC was packed. My flight had 9 real cabin crew on board, no VCC's.
There are just too many messages here.
Someone has written a list of points that they would like to highlight, to play on the concerns of crew, and written a letter around them
My considered opinion? FAKE.
First part of letter emphasising guilt.
but as I looked around I didn’t recognise anyone, there were a lot of young faces and I realised lots of very new looking uniforms
I was told by a manager my flight might be cancelled and if so, they would try and find another trip for me. I didn’t want another trip, the whole point of me going was to keep my MBT
....eight crew. Two of these were pilots, one was an engineer, and two were new temps. there were only three "real crew" including me
One of the pilots failed his SEP questions
Needless to say the pilot stayed on the trip
I had to keep reminding the others that doors had to be covered on the ground, and two of the replacement crew did not know the doors procedures when we pushed back
The service, if you can call it that was embarrassing. ..... the first service went on for hours
I felt like a traitor and couldn’t stop thinking about my friends I knew were not working
smuggled out of the airport like criminals
I felt that I had "sold out" my friends
helped the company get a step closer to taking away all the aspects of this job I did like
the company is bluffing and playing a dangerous game with safety
There was only three real crew with any cabin experience on my flight and I heard in CRC, others went with less. Most went without passengers
You get no real thanks for breaking the strike
And regarding...
The managers were all sticking to the mantra that more crew had reported than expected. I don’t believe that, and I saw no convincing evidence of this.
There are just too many messages here.
Someone has written a list of points that they would like to highlight, to play on the concerns of crew, and written a letter around them
My considered opinion? FAKE.
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My considered opinion? FAKE.
From my own experience of work over the weekend, it was refreshing to realise that if crew use the T5 exit from the M25 then there are no pickets to drive pass.
Many crew were using the T5 long term parking or taking cabs, both at BAs expense.
A few UNITE lies that have been exposed from last weekend certainly for me.
1. There are 20 plans at SNN, no there was not, I know this for a fact
2. No buses have crossed the picket line........... er well there is no picket line for buses to cross
3. The best for last, as I was in CRC when the "only 26 people have turned up to work" text went out, there was a ripple of chat as crew began to read that little gem, and the dawning that for so long UNITE/BASSA had been manipulating the truth.
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Has the penny dropped at unite re pay deductions?
Just the other day, unite were "looking into" the legalities of BA deducting pay from strikers until they returned to work.
Yet today, the unite website has the following:
Important message to Unite BA cabin crew from the joint general secretaries
Yet today, the unite website has the following:
the company has vindictively acted to dock pay from crew not just for days taken on strike, but in some cases for longer periods, significantly impacting on your income. Accordingly, Unite will pay strike pay at our agreed rate not just for days taken on strike, but for ALL days for which the employer has deducted wages as a result of the industrial action. The union is discussing with your representatives an appropriate procedure on how best to do this.
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I reported to CRC as volunteer crew on Monday. It was very busy. So many regular crew had turned up that virtually all of the volunteers were dispersed to hotels. I'm aware of only one who was subsequently called to operate.
No volunteers hung around CRC - we wouldn't know what to do there! And since I now know most of the volunteers, I know their average age - and it ain't 'young'!
There were LOTS of volunteers in the hotel, disappointed that we couldn't get involved but equally relieved that the airline was clearly doing so well without us.
Reports back from colleagues that did operate show that almost all crew were appreciative of their efforts, and went out of their way to support the volunteers in any way possible.
I'm on standby again for the next strike period. I don't expect to be needed.
No volunteers hung around CRC - we wouldn't know what to do there! And since I now know most of the volunteers, I know their average age - and it ain't 'young'!
There were LOTS of volunteers in the hotel, disappointed that we couldn't get involved but equally relieved that the airline was clearly doing so well without us.
Reports back from colleagues that did operate show that almost all crew were appreciative of their efforts, and went out of their way to support the volunteers in any way possible.
I'm on standby again for the next strike period. I don't expect to be needed.
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Lala's latest spin has got a positive response not that i'd expect anything else, i'm just surprised that crew actaully believe it all bizzare.
Last edited by Weather Map; 10th Apr 2010 at 23:12.
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That letter is just like the "diary of a crew member" that went out for the 2007 dispute.
Remember how they said crew would be sharing rooms at the airport hotel?
Well, are you?
Remember how they said crew would be sharing rooms at the airport hotel?
Well, are you?
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A plan is afoot! A plan so cunning, well, you know how it goes......
So only new contract P60s please, no embarassing old contractors please. And make sure it's the P60, which doesn't show all the untaxed earnings you make from your allowances, so you can make it look like you earn less than you actually do!
Originally Posted by BASSA Head Honcho
If you are new contract bring along a recent P60 to show the media the true extent of your earnings and let's nail this myth once and for all.
Obviously mask your name and NI nos, make a copy and hand it to us at Bedfont.
Unite have asked me to make this appeal and I think it a good idea.
Obviously mask your name and NI nos, make a copy and hand it to us at Bedfont.
Unite have asked me to make this appeal and I think it a good idea.