British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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demomonkey
Honesty here. Do I think you should break the strike in general, no. Do I know your circumstance, no. If I knew your position and there was a threat to you being able to make the payments etc, then what sort of person would I be to say anything other than work. Principles do not pay bills. But you to have to realise that you will have to make future bills, that are based on your current position. You are taking a leap of faith that you as a current employee, will not be disadvantaged.
Why do I think that you should in general, not break the strike? Because 5000+ of your colleagues are prepared to challenge the change. But will it be 5000 in reality?
Do you not think that Mr Simpson and Woodley know that they are on a hiding to nothing here? 10000 members is a fist, 5000 needs to be listened to, but you then have to realise that there are 7000 other employees.
Mr Walsh probably will not be at BA when he retires, but a lot of the current crew will be. You reap what you sow and I imagine there will be an awful lot of I told you so's in coming years, from on side or another.
Why do I think that you should in general, not break the strike? Because 5000+ of your colleagues are prepared to challenge the change. But will it be 5000 in reality?
Do you not think that Mr Simpson and Woodley know that they are on a hiding to nothing here? 10000 members is a fist, 5000 needs to be listened to, but you then have to realise that there are 7000 other employees.
Mr Walsh probably will not be at BA when he retires, but a lot of the current crew will be. You reap what you sow and I imagine there will be an awful lot of I told you so's in coming years, from on side or another.
Last edited by Litebulbs; 23rd May 2010 at 08:38. Reason: in response to a following post
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Mr Walsh will not be at BA when he retires, but a lot of the current crew will be. You reap what you sow and I imagine there will be an awful lot of I told you so's in coming years, from on side or another. (Litebulbs)
You might be right, Litebulbs, nobody knows, not me, not you, not other posters on here or on any other forum.
What I WILL remember though, is that throughout all this, BASSA did not offer one workable, properly costed, alternative proposal to permanently remove sufficient future costs from cabin crew. Not one.
You might be right, Litebulbs, nobody knows, not me, not you, not other posters on here or on any other forum.
What I WILL remember though, is that throughout all this, BASSA did not offer one workable, properly costed, alternative proposal to permanently remove sufficient future costs from cabin crew. Not one.
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The same applies to all of us...
None of us have guarantees for the future..none. We are focused on at least trying to ensure there is a future.
Just seen Willy on the Andrew Marr show. His parting words, quote 'British Airways will be flying tomorrow, we will not be grounded by the actions of a tiny minority who are out of touch with reality'.
Just seen Willy on the Andrew Marr show. His parting words, quote 'British Airways will be flying tomorrow, we will not be grounded by the actions of a tiny minority who are out of touch with reality'.
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Mr Walsh will not be at BA when he retires, but a lot of the current crew will be. You reap what you sow and I imagine there will be an awful lot of I told you so's in coming years, from on side or another. (Litebulbs)
You might be right, Litebulbs, nobody knows, not me, not you, not other posters on here or on any other forum.
Previous post adjusted as you are correct
What I WILL remember though, is that throughout all this, BASSA did not offer one workable, properly costed, alternative proposal to permanently remove sufficient future costs from cabin crew. Not one.
You might be right, Litebulbs, nobody knows, not me, not you, not other posters on here or on any other forum.
Previous post adjusted as you are correct
What I WILL remember though, is that throughout all this, BASSA did not offer one workable, properly costed, alternative proposal to permanently remove sufficient future costs from cabin crew. Not one.
But what do I know, I am not in a position to influence anything. I am just following and learning from the whole sorry mess.
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Solidarity
The soap dodgers who invaded ACAS yesterday are claiming they did it in solidarity with the crew.
It also looked quite well planned, with at least two camera crews in attendance and being allowed to film right at the heart of the protest.
Let's take an alternative look at solidarity. BA has about 42,000 staff, of which there are 14,000 cabin crew. So if the strike were to fatally damage our company, each crew member would be responsible for putting two other staff members out of a job. But it's abundantly clear that not all crew support the strike so let's say that about 6000 crew do support the strike, they then bear responsibility for 7 other staff. Is it any wonder that support for the strike in the wider BA is very slight at best?
That's also before considering the knock-on effects on the companies dependent on BA contracts. There's potentially a big hit on the whole UK economy.
BA's collapse would also cause the Pension Protection Fund to implode. The Conservatives are on record as not being inclined to rescue it should that happen. Huge numbers of UK workers would lose a valuable protection.
There are some who say BA wouldn't be allowed to fail. Given that £6bn worth of public sector cuts are due to be announced shortly, I think that's an ambitious gamble, myself.
I could end here with an appeal for crew about to strike to look past their own narrow self-interest but fear it's going to fall on deaf ears.
It also looked quite well planned, with at least two camera crews in attendance and being allowed to film right at the heart of the protest.Let's take an alternative look at solidarity. BA has about 42,000 staff, of which there are 14,000 cabin crew. So if the strike were to fatally damage our company, each crew member would be responsible for putting two other staff members out of a job. But it's abundantly clear that not all crew support the strike so let's say that about 6000 crew do support the strike, they then bear responsibility for 7 other staff. Is it any wonder that support for the strike in the wider BA is very slight at best?
That's also before considering the knock-on effects on the companies dependent on BA contracts. There's potentially a big hit on the whole UK economy.
BA's collapse would also cause the Pension Protection Fund to implode. The Conservatives are on record as not being inclined to rescue it should that happen. Huge numbers of UK workers would lose a valuable protection.
There are some who say BA wouldn't be allowed to fail. Given that £6bn worth of public sector cuts are due to be announced shortly, I think that's an ambitious gamble, myself.
I could end here with an appeal for crew about to strike to look past their own narrow self-interest but fear it's going to fall on deaf ears.
Eddy,
Don't know if that refers to my posting but, if it does, then you are correct to be sceptical.
I posted:
I was 'being facetious' (trying to be jocular at an inappropriate time)
Good luck on Tuesday.
As I understand it, it's been alleged on another forum that Mr. Walsh was responsible for arranging the visit by the Socialist (never-been-a) Worker Party..... I'm sceptical.
I posted:
If someone told me WW had paid them to turn up I'd almost believe it 
Good luck on Tuesday.
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It is interesting that the majority of posts on here say that support for the strike is in the minority. Yet we are told that 81% voted for a strike. There is some disparity here......
I think many people consider BA cabin crew have had it far too good for far too long and could eventually bring the company down. BA cabin crew are paid well in excess of other UK cabin crew and some are paid ridiculously high sums for a job that really entails very little training. If I was BA cabin crew I think I would be keeping my head down, working with BA and hoping that pay and conditions don't decrease too much too soon.
I think many people consider BA cabin crew have had it far too good for far too long and could eventually bring the company down. BA cabin crew are paid well in excess of other UK cabin crew and some are paid ridiculously high sums for a job that really entails very little training. If I was BA cabin crew I think I would be keeping my head down, working with BA and hoping that pay and conditions don't decrease too much too soon.
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You also have to remember that BASSA told crew to vote 'YES' just to ahem "Send Willie a Message". When the 12 day strike at Christmas was announced alot of crew were shocked at what BASSA had done with their 'mandate' as it had been sold to them as a bargaining tool, not a suicidal shotgun.
That started the dis-illusionment with their union branch. Since the last strikes the rate of people resigning from BASSA has now reached 4 digits (allegedly).
Since that time, BASSA has never re-balloted over strike action. The last ballot was not run under normal circumstances and therefore probably should not be treated as more than an unscientific opinion poll.
How did BASSA get so many people on the bus and manage to drive it to the edge of the cliff?
It could have all worked out so much nicer......
That started the dis-illusionment with their union branch. Since the last strikes the rate of people resigning from BASSA has now reached 4 digits (allegedly).
Since that time, BASSA has never re-balloted over strike action. The last ballot was not run under normal circumstances and therefore probably should not be treated as more than an unscientific opinion poll.
How did BASSA get so many people on the bus and manage to drive it to the edge of the cliff?
It could have all worked out so much nicer......
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Biker Mark: "The soap dodgers who invaded ACAS yesterday are claiming they did it in solidarity with the crew. It also looked quite well planned, with at least two camera crews in attendance and being allowed to film right at the heart of the protest"
At those fathers for justice stunts, you'd generally find photographers in the vicinity... waiting.
I saw this happen once when Condoleezza-Rice came to Liverpool: At the back of the demo crowd was several photographers in a group or 2 not paying any sort of attention to events but just standing about... actually there was a lot of people standing about waiting.
Then I sees the police go over to 2 guys, one of them in a big winter coat, and on looking at him you could see the ends of his 'costume' as it protruded beyond his coat sleeves but the big give-away was the gaiters below his knees. :-) And sure enough, upon opening his coat to get at his identity thingy out to the fuzz, you could see the web design on his chest.
They had a big bag with them... no doubt the banner.
I just thought it instructive in how our society works.
It also looked quite well planned, with at least two camera crews in attendance and being allowed to film right at the heart of the protest"At those fathers for justice stunts, you'd generally find photographers in the vicinity... waiting.
I saw this happen once when Condoleezza-Rice came to Liverpool: At the back of the demo crowd was several photographers in a group or 2 not paying any sort of attention to events but just standing about... actually there was a lot of people standing about waiting.
Then I sees the police go over to 2 guys, one of them in a big winter coat, and on looking at him you could see the ends of his 'costume' as it protruded beyond his coat sleeves but the big give-away was the gaiters below his knees. :-) And sure enough, upon opening his coat to get at his identity thingy out to the fuzz, you could see the web design on his chest.
They had a big bag with them... no doubt the banner.
I just thought it instructive in how our society works.
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If anything it was a poorly timed joke and, if english is not their first language then they may not have realised how it could be misconstrued. Am I the only one who thinks this?
What a pathetic attempt at sophistry.
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Eddy, I appologise if any of what i posted offended you. I have only respect to those that worked during the strike, passing a strike line is hard. My post was in reference to YOUR "rep's" tweetering whilst having serious talks about YOUR future, what happens, a bunch of left-wing radicalists gate-crash and cause chaos.
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Any one know
The whereabouts or involvement of Len McCluskey? May have been mentioned here, apologies if it has, I'm intrigued to know, he was quite vocal initially! Thanks
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Majority my A*se
My understanding is that it was 71 per cent of the 81 per cent who voted, who are/were in favour of a strike.
One could therefore tentatively suggest that of the BASSA membership, only 57% voted in favour. Add to that, the fact that a few thousand Cabin Crew have either resigned or have never been members of BASSA.
I can say with strong conviction, that the support for tomorrows strike is less than a majority of BA Cabin Crew and BA are probably printing the P45's as we sit here and pontificate.
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'British Airways will be flying tomorrow, we will not be grounded by the actions of a tiny minority who are out of touch with reality'.
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WOODLEY : "Catastrophic Breakdown in talks yesterday"
Tony Woodley has spent sunday morning with BASSA. He was seen pacing up and down in Unite's lobby looking very frustrated. BASSA are still saying "NO,NEVER,NO" to everything Woodley and Simpson negotiate for them. The "Catastrophic Breakdown in talks yesterday" can ony mean that BASSA have rejected the offer on the table AGAIN . How much longer can he publically support these idiots ? Eventually, and it wont be a long time coming, Unite will eject BASSA from their umbrella, citing 'unworkable relations' and Wille Walsh will start the compulsory redundancies and implementation of all the generous items in his offer. Go on strike you BASSAs , your days are numbered....
Last edited by CantFlyWithoutEngine; 23rd May 2010 at 12:17.
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Was the catastrophic breakdown in talks due to the protestors or due to Derek Simpson tweeting from his blackberry during the meeting?
Having seen the interview on the Andrew Marr show i'm surprised people in their position think it's acceptable to have a mobile device out and be using it during such an important meeting with so many peoples jobs and travel plans at risk.
Is that normal? I'm surprised WW didn't ask him to turn it off while they get on with things.
Having seen the interview on the Andrew Marr show i'm surprised people in their position think it's acceptable to have a mobile device out and be using it during such an important meeting with so many peoples jobs and travel plans at risk.
Is that normal? I'm surprised WW didn't ask him to turn it off while they get on with things.