British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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I cannot believe the new redeployment agreement seems still to have been overlooked by Bassa..... Am I the only one who thinks it's a worrying new set up?
RE: DH, I believe he holds on to his position until the next Bassa election at which point, if still not employed by BA, he will be unable to stand (
)
RE: DH, I believe he holds on to his position until the next Bassa election at which point, if still not employed by BA, he will be unable to stand (
)
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Just when you think the emails couldn't get worse
We all know they've lots the plot, but this extract from their last message is just insane!! What are they thinking? 
If you know anybody that was a 'volunteer" last time, please convince them
It is not too late to back their colleagues and they would again be
welcomed at Bedfont. We must send a powerful message that our union is not
trying to damage British Airways, just trying to get them to see sense,
and to show loyalty to BA, is also to show loyalty to colleagues standing
together, in a difficult situation, trying to defend the airline that we
all care so deeply about, from poor decisions and policies.
By volunteering, it does not bring the solution any nearer it just
prolongs the uncertainty, without "volunteers" Mr Walsh would more than
likely have been inclined to resolve the dispute, rather than carrying it
on.
And how are they meant to convince any vcc's when they're out on the picket line and the vcc's are in JFK?
If you know anybody that was a 'volunteer" last time, please convince them
It is not too late to back their colleagues and they would again be
welcomed at Bedfont. We must send a powerful message that our union is not
trying to damage British Airways, just trying to get them to see sense,
and to show loyalty to BA, is also to show loyalty to colleagues standing
together, in a difficult situation, trying to defend the airline that we
all care so deeply about, from poor decisions and policies.
By volunteering, it does not bring the solution any nearer it just
prolongs the uncertainty, without "volunteers" Mr Walsh would more than
likely have been inclined to resolve the dispute, rather than carrying it
on.
And how are they meant to convince any vcc's when they're out on the picket line and the vcc's are in JFK?
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I am a CSD with 32 year service, I now work 50% my P60 for 2009 - 2010 was 21,703.00 after tax..
A lot of assumptions I know and maybe £70k is over the top - a bit like saying all pilots earn over £100k per year
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Concerning CSD salary, I believe that for old contracts, top of the pay scale is £43k - that is basic pay only, before deductions, exclusive of any allowances or variable pay...
(The above are my personal views, not the views of my employer)
(The above are my personal views, not the views of my employer)
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BRITISH AIRWAYS PLC
Pilots 108.4
Cabin crew 31.4
VIRGIN ATLANTIC AIRWAYS LTD
Pilots 89.9
Cabin crew 14.4
So BA pilots paid 20% more than Virgin, cabin crew paid 118% more.
Those the ones?
Pilots 108.4
Cabin crew 31.4
VIRGIN ATLANTIC AIRWAYS LTD
Pilots 89.9
Cabin crew 14.4
So BA pilots paid 20% more than Virgin, cabin crew paid 118% more.
Those the ones?
Virgin are contracted to 750 hours pa.
BA are contracted to 900 hours pa.
Which means that Virgin are paid as well as, if not better than, BA pilots.
Whereas Virgin cabin crew are contracted to 900 hours, same as BA.
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Eddy
Did make me wonder if ego got in the way of sensible decision making.... WHY send a plane to Scotland with 26 onboard only to have it fly back with just 6? I'd understand if the return was packed; but why not just leave the pulled flights cancelled?
This would apply to days with no industrial disruption. I am sure that we have dispensation to cancel with industrial or WX disruption.
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PCF:
Are you taking just the top line? This is how it is formatted on the website when I look:
• Basic Salary 0.00
• Overtime/Bonus/Commission (average) 0.00
• Profit Share 0.00
• Round Sum Allowance in Lieu of Expenditure 0.00
• Expected basic salary increments to a maximum top scale rate of 0.00
(The above are my personal views, not the views of my employer)
Good morning,
21,703 was my morgage quote from ess pay- yes, sorry I did say P60 - calculators to the ready.
21,703 was my morgage quote from ess pay- yes, sorry I did say P60 - calculators to the ready.
• Basic Salary 0.00
• Overtime/Bonus/Commission (average) 0.00
• Profit Share 0.00
• Round Sum Allowance in Lieu of Expenditure 0.00
• Expected basic salary increments to a maximum top scale rate of 0.00
(The above are my personal views, not the views of my employer)
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I believe Mr Holley is still an employee of BA, by virtue that his disciplinary is in the appeal stage.
He will probably appeal to be reinstated i.e get his job back
His appeal will need to contain fresh information in his defence that he did not have the opportunity to present at the hearing.
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Originally Posted by essessdeedee
Do those same colleagues have the same respect for your decision?
I have the utmost respect for my colleagues who have decided to go on strike because they've made a difficult decision to stand up for what they believe in.
I don't believe in the same thing this time around, which is why I went to work, but far from getting respect for making that difficult decision I've been given anonymous notes in my dropfile calling me names and I've been blanked by colleagues on a trip (only one, though.... - the majority are mature enough to recognise that we have all made a personal choice).
But while I respect the decision to strike, I lose some of that respect when those same people engage in protest marches to the Arora and bus rides around the Heathrow area.
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Having just read Investor Day May 21 2010 presentation, I find it notable that so much in the early pages is dedicated to what appears to be a case against cabin crew.
There are numbers quoted apparently extracted from AR 1998 and AR 2009.
However total headcount, and percentages of same, can be skewed by, inter alia, outsourcing, aircraft size(=crew complement ) and fleet size.
But it is said that those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
From BA AR1997/98
and
From BA AR 1998/99
From BA AR 2008/09
I am astonished that such effort and resources are being directed to squashing the cc into submission. How much saving will be generated to justify all the confusion?
There are numbers quoted apparently extracted from AR 1998 and AR 2009.
However total headcount, and percentages of same, can be skewed by, inter alia, outsourcing, aircraft size(=crew complement ) and fleet size.
But it is said that those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
From BA AR1997/98
The cabin crew dispute resulted in a one-off cost of £125 million but we did secure the £42 million a year savings which was required from the cabin crew budget.
The savings in operating costs have enabled us to plan the investment of
£6 billion over three years on new services, products, aircraft and training.
The savings in operating costs have enabled us to plan the investment of
£6 billion over three years on new services, products, aircraft and training.
Agreement was reached during the year on a new deal with the unions which
had to include pay freezes, new lower starter rates of pay, new rostering agreements, voluntary severance and early retirement for many. But now we have stability until the end of the century.
had to include pay freezes, new lower starter rates of pay, new rostering agreements, voluntary severance and early retirement for many. But now we have stability until the end of the century.
Business efficiency programme
The Business Efficiency Programme was announced three years ago with a target to identify and deliver £1 billion of annual efficiency savings by March 2000.
The programme is well on track, delivering annual efficiencies of £610 million in this year’s results, £110 million ahead of original plans.
Initiatives put in place prior to March 1998 have contributed significantly towards this year’s result.
These include:
· Changes to working practices and pay rates in the Heathrow and Gatwick operations, British Airways World Cargo and British Airways Regional.
· New agreements with cabin crew.
· Successful outsourcing of a number of activities including in-flight catering and the management and maintenance of ground vehicles at Heathrow and Gatwick.
· Business restructuring in fleet engineering operations, including the sale of specialist units and the outsourcing of IT.
· Restructured travel agents’ commission and incentive reward systems in the UK, USA, Canada and Africa.
· Centralisation of accounting operations in the UK.
The Business Efficiency Programme was announced three years ago with a target to identify and deliver £1 billion of annual efficiency savings by March 2000.
The programme is well on track, delivering annual efficiencies of £610 million in this year’s results, £110 million ahead of original plans.
Initiatives put in place prior to March 1998 have contributed significantly towards this year’s result.
These include:
· Changes to working practices and pay rates in the Heathrow and Gatwick operations, British Airways World Cargo and British Airways Regional.
· New agreements with cabin crew.
· Successful outsourcing of a number of activities including in-flight catering and the management and maintenance of ground vehicles at Heathrow and Gatwick.
· Business restructuring in fleet engineering operations, including the sale of specialist units and the outsourcing of IT.
· Restructured travel agents’ commission and incentive reward systems in the UK, USA, Canada and Africa.
· Centralisation of accounting operations in the UK.
The average number of employees in the Group, measured in MPE, fell by 0.7 per cent to 42,094.
However, productivity (measured in ATKs per MPE) weakened by 1.9 per cent due to the additional manpower that was retained in the first half of the year to handle our move to Terminal 5.
However, productivity (measured in ATKs per MPE) weakened by 1.9 per cent due to the additional manpower that was retained in the first half of the year to handle our move to Terminal 5.
Last edited by ZQA297/30; 22nd May 2010 at 11:16.
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Cirrus
is the pilot's flight planning software system.
So no threat of a pay cut from there!!
Project Solar is the review of LGW. Which recommends the increase of longhaul flts.
If only crew would bother reading something other than the Bassa forum they might get some facts and truth.
is the pilot's flight planning software system.
So no threat of a pay cut from there!!
Project Solar is the review of LGW. Which recommends the increase of longhaul flts.
If only crew would bother reading something other than the Bassa forum they might get some facts and truth.
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The point being missed here is, the airline must re adjust it's cost base accross ALL departments.
Sure we could let the cc off with minimal savings, what's 10 million after all? Trouble is then you would have to let the pilots off with several million and the
terminal staff and the engineers and the transport department etc etc. A settlement would never be reached because each group would argue about how much they should pay to keep it fair.
Hence each department was set a target, each department must settle in FULL. Full stop.
Why should one department get let off just because their saving alone won't bankrupt BA?
Sure we could let the cc off with minimal savings, what's 10 million after all? Trouble is then you would have to let the pilots off with several million and the
terminal staff and the engineers and the transport department etc etc. A settlement would never be reached because each group would argue about how much they should pay to keep it fair.
Hence each department was set a target, each department must settle in FULL. Full stop.
Why should one department get let off just because their saving alone won't bankrupt BA?
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On the subject of pay, as a CSD of nearly 13 years (26yrs in BA as CC) my basic pay excluding allowances and variables is £40,174, I have a few increments before I reach the final increment of £43,283. I have been netting a pay of approximately £3,100 to £3,400 in the last 12 months.
I truly feel BA have been generous with our salaries all these years and we have to move with time. If I am honest, I can't justify what I earn anymore with the reduced product and the state our business is in. WW is not proposing a pay cut, we can keep our T's and C's, it really is not a lot to ask for.
(No, Juan O, I am not on the sherry or anything else btw
)
It's good to know that we will be flying even more aircraft types during the forthcoming strike than the previous ones. I have just been given a 767 trip to a certain destination on Monday. I have once again moved my booked leave and cancelled my holiday, as I did previously to help support our operation. I am totally flexible with days off, lieu days to be sent to whatever destination whenever I am needed, to serve our customers. This strike for me, is morally wrong.
I am BA cabin crew and the above are my personal views.
I truly feel BA have been generous with our salaries all these years and we have to move with time. If I am honest, I can't justify what I earn anymore with the reduced product and the state our business is in. WW is not proposing a pay cut, we can keep our T's and C's, it really is not a lot to ask for.
(No, Juan O, I am not on the sherry or anything else btw
)It's good to know that we will be flying even more aircraft types during the forthcoming strike than the previous ones. I have just been given a 767 trip to a certain destination on Monday. I have once again moved my booked leave and cancelled my holiday, as I did previously to help support our operation. I am totally flexible with days off, lieu days to be sent to whatever destination whenever I am needed, to serve our customers. This strike for me, is morally wrong.
I am BA cabin crew and the above are my personal views.
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Tiramisu, for somebody to declare on a public forum that they earn too much money is breathtaking! Indeed, for anybody to declare, to the exact penny, what they earn is bad enough.
Why don't you take out a full page advertisement in one of the national papers? " Dear Mr Walsh, you pay me too much money. Please feel free to take as much of it as you like."
I suspect that neither you nor the other posters that have declared their earnings so publicly are employed as cabin crew.
Why don't you take out a full page advertisement in one of the national papers? " Dear Mr Walsh, you pay me too much money. Please feel free to take as much of it as you like."
I suspect that neither you nor the other posters that have declared their earnings so publicly are employed as cabin crew.
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Tira. YOU might think it morally wrong...but literally thousands of your colleagues also think what Walsh is doing IS morally wrong in a big way. As CC you must realise that most of us are on the brink of agreement but not in the way BA are carrying on...and not without some form of guarantee for these new agreements.
Are you ready now to join NF?...maybe as a Supervisor, maybe you will not be accepted and be part of 'the crew'. Enjoy your 24 hrs in SIN, BKK, LAX, etc.
Are you ready now to join NF?...maybe as a Supervisor, maybe you will not be accepted and be part of 'the crew'. Enjoy your 24 hrs in SIN, BKK, LAX, etc.
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Tiramisu, for somebody to declare on a public forum that they earn too much money is breathtaking! Indeed, for anybody to declare, to the exact penny, what they earn is bad enough.
Why don't you take out a full page advertisement in one of the national papers? " Dear Mr Walsh, you pay me too much money. Please feel free to take as much of it as you like."
I suspect that neither you nor the other posters that have declared their earnings so publicly are employed as cabin crew.
Why don't you take out a full page advertisement in one of the national papers? " Dear Mr Walsh, you pay me too much money. Please feel free to take as much of it as you like."
I suspect that neither you nor the other posters that have declared their earnings so publicly are employed as cabin crew.
It is my business if I choose to declare my earnings, exact or not, on a public forum, not yours or anybody else's!!!
To try and tell the pilot's they are incorrect in their assessment of our salaries is telling fibs at best. I simply wanted to set the record straight.
As for Willie Walsh, I did admit to him when he was in CRC that I was well paid, and his reply was 'I know you've build your lifestyle around you salary, that's why I'm proposing a pay freeze and not a pay cut.' I believe him, that's my business too.
I suspect that neither you nor the other posters that have declared their earnings so publicly are employed as cabin crew
This is so typical of the BASSA mentality, anyone that posts anything other than the BASSA rhetoric is not cabin crew, is a Manager, a Pilot or someone from Waterside! Have a little more intelligence than Derek Simpson credits you with being 'articulate and intelligent on national TV and please read my posts. I have flown with several posters here and don't need to justify anything to you.
Posted by Juan Odeboyse
Tira. YOU might think it morally wrong...but literally thousands of your colleagues also think what Walsh is doing IS morally wrong in a big way. As CC you must realise that most of us are on the brink of agreement but not in the way BA are carrying on...and not without some form of guarantee for these new agreements.
Are you ready now to join NF?...maybe as a Supervisor, maybe you will not be accepted and be part of 'the crew'. Enjoy your 24 hrs in SIN, BKK, LAX, etc.
Tira. YOU might think it morally wrong...but literally thousands of your colleagues also think what Walsh is doing IS morally wrong in a big way. As CC you must realise that most of us are on the brink of agreement but not in the way BA are carrying on...and not without some form of guarantee for these new agreements.
Are you ready now to join NF?...maybe as a Supervisor, maybe you will not be accepted and be part of 'the crew'. Enjoy your 24 hrs in SIN, BKK, LAX, etc.
With respect, we both have our views and you can't change mine.
Why didn't BASSA negotiate New Fleet when it was on the table? Why didn't they talk about the redeploment aggrement when they had the opportunity?
Why wouldn't they sit in the same room with Amicus reps? Why didn't they watch the slides and pay lip service and at least grin and bear it even if they found it boring? Why didn't they look at PWC's figures? Why didn't they listen to Willie Walsh when he said if you go on strike you will lose Staff Travel?
I don't want to go to new Fleet as I have previously said, but if that's all that's left I will have no choice. However striking is still not an option for me and I maintain that it is morally wrong.
Whose fault is is that we are now in the dreadful state we are in please, Juan O?
For god's sake I'm BA cabin crew with my own informed views!
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