British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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Maybe I am wrong, but are you saying that striking is a democratic right (your boss says 'work', you don't) but working during a strike is not (union says 'strike', you don't)?
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Many questions - not so mnay answers
There are 2 commodities that are in short supply at the moment. Facts and Truth. So I have some random, bullet point questions and if anyone can answer them, that would be great.
1) Is anyone talking to anyone at the moment? Is there a new deal on the table, is there an old deal on the table? BASSA seems to only be talking about the next strike (obviously these could be scare tactics to get a done deal)
2) I heard that 53 out of 55 BASSA reps where suspended (True or false?). If so what were the reasons? It does seem an incredibly high percentage.
3) If one is suspended I presume one would NOT lose one's staff travel during a strike, but would still come across as a martyr for the cause.
4) I would presume any suspension is followed by some kind of disciplinary hearing? No? So we should be hearing cases of atleast 53 such hearings in the near future.
5) I have read (on various forums) that strikers were not to be re-rostered. If so how come there is a full flight schedule in the days following the strikes? Shortly there would be the same shortage of crew as there was during the strikes.
6) To follow up question 5. Could it be that WW had enough TCC to fly all the planes but decided to cut non profit making flights (Better to send 2 x FULL planes than 3 X 75% PAX planes.) blame the unions for all this upheaval and save BA a few quid at the same time (hence the recent management bonuses)
7) Of the strikers, what percentage were on post 1997 contracts? If any of these lost their staff travel then I feel a bit sorry for them. However any on the pre 97 contract are still much better off than me, even WITHOUT staff travel so I dont think I will be going around with a collection box. In fact maybe they would like to go round with a collection box for the realitve newbies, as without the post 97 contract rated Cabin crew, I am pretty sure BA would not be able to compete. It would seem the post 97 CC have enabled the high wage contracted CCs to have an extra 13 years top rate earnings. More than time enough to maybe see the writing on the wall and make plans.
8) If there are any post 97 CC out there and went on strike. Please tell me your reaasons, I would love to hear them
Ok thats it. And BASSA , Easter is now over, the 14th April is looming, please give us some hard facts... and I don't mean how many hamburgers were eaten.
1) Is anyone talking to anyone at the moment? Is there a new deal on the table, is there an old deal on the table? BASSA seems to only be talking about the next strike (obviously these could be scare tactics to get a done deal)
2) I heard that 53 out of 55 BASSA reps where suspended (True or false?). If so what were the reasons? It does seem an incredibly high percentage.
3) If one is suspended I presume one would NOT lose one's staff travel during a strike, but would still come across as a martyr for the cause.
4) I would presume any suspension is followed by some kind of disciplinary hearing? No? So we should be hearing cases of atleast 53 such hearings in the near future.
5) I have read (on various forums) that strikers were not to be re-rostered. If so how come there is a full flight schedule in the days following the strikes? Shortly there would be the same shortage of crew as there was during the strikes.
6) To follow up question 5. Could it be that WW had enough TCC to fly all the planes but decided to cut non profit making flights (Better to send 2 x FULL planes than 3 X 75% PAX planes.) blame the unions for all this upheaval and save BA a few quid at the same time (hence the recent management bonuses)
7) Of the strikers, what percentage were on post 1997 contracts? If any of these lost their staff travel then I feel a bit sorry for them. However any on the pre 97 contract are still much better off than me, even WITHOUT staff travel so I dont think I will be going around with a collection box. In fact maybe they would like to go round with a collection box for the realitve newbies, as without the post 97 contract rated Cabin crew, I am pretty sure BA would not be able to compete. It would seem the post 97 CC have enabled the high wage contracted CCs to have an extra 13 years top rate earnings. More than time enough to maybe see the writing on the wall and make plans.
8) If there are any post 97 CC out there and went on strike. Please tell me your reaasons, I would love to hear them
Ok thats it. And BASSA , Easter is now over, the 14th April is looming, please give us some hard facts... and I don't mean how many hamburgers were eaten.
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BA vs. BASSA
Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. We have grasped the mystery of the atom and rejected the Sermon on the Mount. OMAR BRADLEY (1893-1981) US general
(this is my opinion and does not reflect that of my employer!)
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Only a small number of reps are suspended at the moment.
I've seen two I know of (both nasty pieces of work) in uniform in CRC over the last week looking very sheepish. From what BASSA have said, it seems they are all being rostered trips and nobody is being de-rostered for union duties.
I tried to make eye contact with both of them, but they seemed to be pre-ocupied with staring at their shoes! They are both CSDs and whilst I worry greatly about what impact they are having on board for both the customers and crew, it is rather good to see them being told to come to work and put the uniform on for a change!
I've seen two I know of (both nasty pieces of work) in uniform in CRC over the last week looking very sheepish. From what BASSA have said, it seems they are all being rostered trips and nobody is being de-rostered for union duties.
I tried to make eye contact with both of them, but they seemed to be pre-ocupied with staring at their shoes! They are both CSDs and whilst I worry greatly about what impact they are having on board for both the customers and crew, it is rather good to see them being told to come to work and put the uniform on for a change!
I worry greatly about what impact they are having on board for both the customers and crew
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Talking of reps who are CSD's, is the BASSA Branch Secretary still with BA, or is he now able to be a full time Branch Secretary?
Last edited by Andyismyname; 5th Apr 2010 at 10:23.
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(Better to send 2 x FULL planes than 3 X 75% PAX planes.)
3 x 0.75 = 2.25
2 x 1.00 = 2.00
How would you deal with the 25% of the pax who booked with you, who you have now left stranded?
Would you refund their fares, or transfer them to a competing carrier? If you do, you would have lost the revenue and the passengers' future goodwill.
Forget bean counting and think business; send out three planes with 75% occupancy. You will still make a profit and you will have 100% customer satisfaction.
peterlike
That seems to be a slight 'corruption' of the of the original 'rumour' that 53 out of 55 BASSA reps declared themselves 'unable to report for work' (pull a sickie or otherwise) in an effort to avoid being seen to strike by BA (and thereby risk all sorts of things).
Another 2 reps (the remaining 2 of the 55?) apparently resigned from BASSA, so that they didn't have to strike and jeopardise their CSD courses.
It would appear to have been a "We are right behind you" effort from the BASSA hierarchy, rather than a "We'll lead you in to the fray!" Go figure.
2) I heard that 53 out of 55 BASSA reps where suspended (True or false?). If so what were the reasons? It does seem an incredibly high percentage.
Another 2 reps (the remaining 2 of the 55?) apparently resigned from BASSA, so that they didn't have to strike and jeopardise their CSD courses.
It would appear to have been a "We are right behind you" effort from the BASSA hierarchy, rather than a "We'll lead you in to the fray!" Go figure.
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Only a small number of reps are suspended at the moment.
I've seen two I know of (both nasty pieces of work) in uniform in CRC over the last week looking very sheepish. From what BASSA have said, it seems they are all being rostered trips and nobody is being de-rostered for union duties.
I tried to make eye contact with both of them, but they seemed to be pre-ocupied with staring at their shoes! They are both CSDs and whilst I worry greatly about what impact they are having on board for both the customers and crew, it is rather good to see them being told to come to work and put the uniform on for a change!
I've seen two I know of (both nasty pieces of work) in uniform in CRC over the last week looking very sheepish. From what BASSA have said, it seems they are all being rostered trips and nobody is being de-rostered for union duties.
I tried to make eye contact with both of them, but they seemed to be pre-ocupied with staring at their shoes! They are both CSDs and whilst I worry greatly about what impact they are having on board for both the customers and crew, it is rather good to see them being told to come to work and put the uniform on for a change!
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response to chuchinchow
1) It is NOT what I would do, but it would be a good money saving exercise whist laying the blame on the Union.
2) The numbers don't matter as they would be different for different routes and flights. they are just an example. But it would a good opportunity to cancel loss making flights for a couple of days. Or by, off loading extras from the third flight (assuming 2 of 3 fly) and putting them on earlier flights or next day flights. THe facts are a full plane is always more profitable than a half full plane.
3) I'm not sure the management are that bothered about what the customers think or they would have sorted out the baggage situation much sooner. That dragged on for months leaving suitcases getting soaking wet on the open tarmac (have people forgotten that episode?). I wonder how many p*** off customers vowed never to fly BA again then?
Also if WW put the first offer back on the table - the strike would be over and everyone would be happy. IF it was good enough to offer once it was good enough to offer twice. And don't say that he needs to recoup the cost of the strike as it has been stated that it has having little effect, not costing much and will have no effect on the yearly profits.
Now I am not strongly in one camp or the other, so please don't try and push me into one. I just want honest answers.
2) The numbers don't matter as they would be different for different routes and flights. they are just an example. But it would a good opportunity to cancel loss making flights for a couple of days. Or by, off loading extras from the third flight (assuming 2 of 3 fly) and putting them on earlier flights or next day flights. THe facts are a full plane is always more profitable than a half full plane.
3) I'm not sure the management are that bothered about what the customers think or they would have sorted out the baggage situation much sooner. That dragged on for months leaving suitcases getting soaking wet on the open tarmac (have people forgotten that episode?). I wonder how many p*** off customers vowed never to fly BA again then?
Also if WW put the first offer back on the table - the strike would be over and everyone would be happy. IF it was good enough to offer once it was good enough to offer twice. And don't say that he needs to recoup the cost of the strike as it has been stated that it has having little effect, not costing much and will have no effect on the yearly profits.
Now I am not strongly in one camp or the other, so please don't try and push me into one. I just want honest answers.
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big hole
"That seems to be a slight 'corruption' of the of the original 'rumour' that 53 out of 55 BASSA reps declared themselves 'unable to report for work' (pull a sickie or otherwise) in an effort to avoid being seen to strike by BA (and thereby risk all sorts of things)."
SO how does that work, anyone who was sick over the period was considered a striker and would suffer the consequences. And taking leave in such a short time would be pretty impossible and not be agreed to as it woulld be "all hands to the pump"
Can someone please try and speak the truth in this site
SO how does that work, anyone who was sick over the period was considered a striker and would suffer the consequences. And taking leave in such a short time would be pretty impossible and not be agreed to as it woulld be "all hands to the pump"
Can someone please try and speak the truth in this site
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Peterlike
Can someone please try and speak the truth in this site
I will try my best with the information I have.2 BASSA reps are currently suspended, and are in the disciplinary process.
A handful of BASSA reps are Long Term Sick, at least one of them was a defendant in BASSA court case, and this fact was highlighted by the Judge during his ruling.
3 Gatwick reps resigned on the eve of the strike, I believe these were ex CC89 reps.
Now for the rumour part........
Its rumored that 2 BASSA reps continued with their CSD course over the strike. Further it is rumored that BASSA reps were told by UNITE to call in sick in the days prior to the strike, only to call fit on the eve of the stike and be allocated a trip which they could then strike over. At least 1 that I know of refused to do this.
I don't know if this helps?
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1) if WW put the first offer back on the table - the strike would be over and everyone would be happy. IF it was good enough to offer once it was good enough to offer twice. And don't say that he needs to recoup the cost of the strike as it has been stated that it has having little effect, not costing much and will have no effect on the yearly profits.
However, that still leaves the issue of ST and also the disciplinary procedures. WW has said that they will not form part of a settlement, BASSA states they will. BASSA are the only ones who can call off the strike now, UNITE cannot due to the BASSA constitution which was changed after UNITE reined in BASSA three years ago. So the problem really is one of egos - Lizanne Malone's and WW's.
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Its rumored that 2 BASSA reps continued with their CSD course over the strike.
Further it is rumored that BASSA reps were told by UNITE to call in sick in the days prior to the strike, only to call fit on the eve of the stike and be allocated a trip which they could then strike over. At least 1 that I know of refused to do this.
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BASSA Reps and Sickness management
Hello Peterlike
Always try to speak the truth and will try to throw a bit of light on this. As a CSD one needs to instantly know the choc times, overtime payable, allowances in EBB, relevant box payment, who won the 2.00 at Sandown Park, next flight to Barcelona and the meaning of life, this one is relatively simple.
Short term sickness up to 7 days is self certified.
For longer than 7 days then a doctors certificate is needed to cover the period of the sickness.
If the problem is likely to result in the absence being for a longer term then you go into a company sickness management program. The purpose is to assess your needs and manage your path back to flying. If that is not going to be an immediate option, then find something that you can do within the company or in the worse case, retirement due ill health.
To my certain knowledge a number of the BASSA reps were in the sickness management program when the strike was called and would automatically be classed as taking action on Day 1 of the strike.
Why so harsh? The last industrial action saw a large number of crew going sick in the run up to the first strike day, some presumably to avoid the action . The decision to treat all persons "sick" on strike days as taking strike action was designed to deter that course of action.
All persons currently classed as strikers because they were registered as sick on any or all of the strike days will have their cases reviewed by their manager. You merely have to explain your sickness and if you have a doctors certificate then that adds more credence to your argument but not essential for less than 7 days sickness. Clearly staff long term sick would already be in a sickness management program and they will be confirmed as genuinely sick and their status will be confirmed as a non-striker and their staff travel not removed.
Would anybody care to dispute any of the above?
SO how does that work, anyone who was sick over the period was considered a striker and would suffer the consequences. And taking leave in such a short time would be pretty impossible and not be agreed to as it would be "all hands to the pump"
Short term sickness up to 7 days is self certified.
For longer than 7 days then a doctors certificate is needed to cover the period of the sickness.
If the problem is likely to result in the absence being for a longer term then you go into a company sickness management program. The purpose is to assess your needs and manage your path back to flying. If that is not going to be an immediate option, then find something that you can do within the company or in the worse case, retirement due ill health.
To my certain knowledge a number of the BASSA reps were in the sickness management program when the strike was called and would automatically be classed as taking action on Day 1 of the strike.
Why so harsh? The last industrial action saw a large number of crew going sick in the run up to the first strike day, some presumably to avoid the action . The decision to treat all persons "sick" on strike days as taking strike action was designed to deter that course of action.
All persons currently classed as strikers because they were registered as sick on any or all of the strike days will have their cases reviewed by their manager. You merely have to explain your sickness and if you have a doctors certificate then that adds more credence to your argument but not essential for less than 7 days sickness. Clearly staff long term sick would already be in a sickness management program and they will be confirmed as genuinely sick and their status will be confirmed as a non-striker and their staff travel not removed.
Would anybody care to dispute any of the above?
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Litebulbs,
I'm glad it made you laugh!
Being a good company chap and all that, I'm not going to go over to two known shorthaul BASSA reps and start discussing the fact they are fighting a losing battle and have completely failed their community in front of other crew. It was however amusing to see them squirming around. I could see other cabin crew notice them too and they did not look very comfortable being there at all....very different to the arrogant strutting around they used to do when in civvies on a 'union day' before the strike. Their change in demeanour said a thousand words!
Looking ahead to the next few days, I wouldn't be surprised to see some fireworks over at Unite HQ. Whilst Woodley is a 1970s dinosaur, you don't get to his position without being relatively savvy. He knows BASSA have dug themsleves a massive hole (hence why he's been pleading so publicly for Willie to put some kind of offer back on the table). I'd love to be a fly on the wall in that internal meeting later in the week. You'll have the likes of Malone, Holly, Stott and Devereux screaming for an all-out strike and Woodley saying they have lost the battle and an all out strike will only lead to their complete capitulation. There has always been huge tension between BASSA and the T&G and I wouldn't be surprised if there is a complete breakdown of the relationship over the next week. I can quite easily see BASSA splitting from Unite or a splinter group of Unite (including some former Amicus reps) becoming the new Unite affiliated branch.
It's obviously difficult to call how this will play out, but I think it's a racing certainty there'll be fireworks!!
Watch this space.
I'm glad it made you laugh!
Being a good company chap and all that, I'm not going to go over to two known shorthaul BASSA reps and start discussing the fact they are fighting a losing battle and have completely failed their community in front of other crew. It was however amusing to see them squirming around. I could see other cabin crew notice them too and they did not look very comfortable being there at all....very different to the arrogant strutting around they used to do when in civvies on a 'union day' before the strike. Their change in demeanour said a thousand words!
Looking ahead to the next few days, I wouldn't be surprised to see some fireworks over at Unite HQ. Whilst Woodley is a 1970s dinosaur, you don't get to his position without being relatively savvy. He knows BASSA have dug themsleves a massive hole (hence why he's been pleading so publicly for Willie to put some kind of offer back on the table). I'd love to be a fly on the wall in that internal meeting later in the week. You'll have the likes of Malone, Holly, Stott and Devereux screaming for an all-out strike and Woodley saying they have lost the battle and an all out strike will only lead to their complete capitulation. There has always been huge tension between BASSA and the T&G and I wouldn't be surprised if there is a complete breakdown of the relationship over the next week. I can quite easily see BASSA splitting from Unite or a splinter group of Unite (including some former Amicus reps) becoming the new Unite affiliated branch.
It's obviously difficult to call how this will play out, but I think it's a racing certainty there'll be fireworks!!
Watch this space.
Last edited by BentleyH; 5th Apr 2010 at 19:33. Reason: spelling!
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Peterlike..
You said,
I think you need to establish this first.
Why was the original offer removed?
Also if WW put the first offer back on the table - the strike would be over and everyone would be happy. IF it was good enough to offer once it was good enough to offer twice.
Why was the original offer removed?
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A question,
As I see it, BA cabin crew pay rates are governed by a collective agreement. If, as some say, some temps/re-joiners have been brought in on a rate that is outside of that covered by the existing collective agreement, which in my understanding is contractual, are BA in breach?
As I see it, BA cabin crew pay rates are governed by a collective agreement. If, as some say, some temps/re-joiners have been brought in on a rate that is outside of that covered by the existing collective agreement, which in my understanding is contractual, are BA in breach?