British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

[HiFlyer14]

So 2000 cabin crew were on strike last week.

Err...says who?

The letter I received in the post this morning from BA says:
Rostered to work across all fleets was a total of 2020.
Actual at work 1255.

Using all my fingers and toes, I make that a difference of errr...765 actually on strike.

I guess that paltry figure explains the myriad of emails and texts from BASSA today. No wonder they've had to book a bouncy castle.

This is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.

[Stoic]

Well said HF

So it was less than 2000 if HF is correct. Why don't you all go back to work? No brainer.

[Finnster]

they went out because they believe implicitly what bassa decides to tell them, and no i am not underestimating them.

[Meal Chucker]

Originally Posted by bacabincrew

The truth in all of this are that the Cabin Crew are scared, genuinely scared for their futures, they see this imposition as the thin end of the wedge,

My honest opinion is Willie has changed as much as thought he could get away with without needing agreement from the union or changing our T+C's. So I don't think this is the thin end of the wedge, personally I think it is the whole wedge.

Any other changes will need our agreement or a change of contract such as SOSR etc. which I don't think Willie will do unless forced to.

Could of course, all be rubbish, but that's my opinion.

[Meal Chucker]

So 2000 cabin crew were on strike last week.

Wasn't the 2000 figure, Unite's 'guess' at the number of crew that turned up at BFC, which included crew not rostered to be operating, families and possibly the odd dog or two! (The four legged variety)

This is despite sky news putting the figure at between 600-800.

[ArthurScargill]

I agree it's a good, honest post from bacabincrew, but it highlights the real problem in these negotiations. Crew don't trust the management at all, lots of them don't read anything BA send them because "it's all lies".

How is BA supposed to improve the communication with a section of the workforce which doesn't listen, and doesn't believe what it hears when it does listen?

Entirely agree. Crew Forums (no not that one!!) might help going forward but how they change in the short term is anyones guess.

I think BACABINCREWs posts have highlighted exactly this, and go someway to explaining why those of us who have the whole facts in front of us can't understand the rationale of the strike. Very sad.

[winstonsmith]

You quite clearly have no grasp of what it's like to fly as crew have you?

The vast majority of crew have seen no change in their workload as only the CSD's role has fundamentally changed so that blows the first part of your sentence out of the water, the bunk rest is pretty much the same as before, so that blows that part of your argument out of the water.

And according to latest traffic stats load factors we are actually carrying more passengers not less.

Remind me again how many Longhaul routes fly out of LGW?

No, you are right - as a WW PSR with over 15 years flying at LHR I don't know anything.

From LGW they fly to Antigua, Barbados, Bermuda, Male, Montego Bay, Punta Cana, Sharm el Sheikh, Saint Kitts, Tampa, Tobago and Trinidad and Tobago - looks like A LOT more destinations than LHR (taken from Book Flights, Hotels, Holidays, Car Rental with British Airways - BA.com)

[Caribbean Boy]

LGW longhauls

bacabincrew wrote:

Remind me again how many Longhaul routes fly out of LGW?

BDA
MCO
TPA
KIN
MBJ
ANU with shuttles to PUJ, SKB, TAB
BGI with shuttles to GND, TAB
UVF with shuttles to POS
SSH
MLE

That's 15 destinations including 10 gateways. There are 50 weekly flights to the gateways plus 13 to shuttle destinations.

[ArthurScargill]

Bacabincrew

Arthur - it hasn't and the overwhelming number of crew you speak to will tell you that, you know yourself now that this dispute is not about one off and never has been - why am I risking my job? To try to protect my future, that is the real reason every Cabin Crew member is striking, honestly, people are so worried about what will be imposed next - there is simply no trust nor faith in this current leadership team. People are just so concerned for their futures that is the biggest failure in all of this dispute.

Your future ?
The way i see it, if you accepted the 'imposition' you would have had almost the safest job in town - along with pilots, and probably engineers.
Think about the rest of us when we merge with Iberia - i'd estimate 1 in 3 will lose their JOBS - why pay me and a spanish chap to do the same work ? What should i do :

1) Work the 2-3 years grace i have whilst keeping an eye on the job maket and jump ship when something of slightly better pay comes available (to make up for the loss of ST)

2) Work my nutsack off to try and ensure i'm irreplaceable (I'm realistic enough to know i'm not by the way - as much as i'd like to believe it)

3) Go on strike, cos i'm scared of what might happen to the private, profit-making company who pay my mortage, bills, car and holidays ?

Now, just take a minute to consider why no-one, and i mean noone, outside of CC understands why on earth you are striking. Your fears, whilst understandable, are completely fed by BASSA scare tactics - whether that be to protect the CSDs or the money spinning union subs - who knows ? But i very much doubt its for your benefit.

[For the record it will be option 2 for me, with a quick diversion to option 1 depending on how i read the situation unfolding]

[617sqn]

Unite have asked for the offer of last week to be put back on the table.
As someone who has left Bassa in protest at their poor representation,I would like the offer of last june please.Yes, that's the best one.The one that was refused point blank.The one that said NO new fleet.
If that were to be put on the table now WW would be crushed in the rush.

[HiFlyer14]

Just packing my case and getting my "new" uniform ready for my flight tomorrow, and a friend who remarkably still belongs to BASSA tells me that today BASSA have sent their members SEVEN emails and FIVE texts.

Now, why on earth would that be do you think?

[India Sierra]

One thing Willie said on Wednesday. And I quote "If it becomes a war of attrition then British Airways will win".

Everything WW has said so far has been proved to be correct. Everything he said he would do he has done.

What has Unite said?
There are 20 A/C at SNN and another 20 at CWL.
Wrong. However, there are 2 B747's at CWL that have been stood down since Oct 2008 due to the recession. You know about the recession; right? That inconvenient financial state the whole country has been in for the past 2 years and why the rest of BA have not had a pay rise, or worked overtime, or taken unpaid leave or worked for nothing. That recession.
There are 125 A/C grounded at LHR.
Hang on a minute, how many A/C have we got?
BA's A/C are old and unsafe.
Wrong and offensive - I'm an Engineer.
BA's contingency plans "a floundering strike-breaking operation"
Wrong.

Sorry BASSA - It's over.

[midman]

bacabincrew

To reiterate:

How many cabin crew were on the 777 to GRU and GIG before the imposition and after?

[Clarified]

bacabincrew

.....only the CSD's role has fundamentally changed

I have read many of your posts recently and although disagree with a lot of what you say, respect your right to an opinion.

Re. the above.

I am a CSD on WW fleet at LHR. My job has NOT fundamentally changed since the introduction of modest changes made in November.
Under the framework that the CSD appointment operates, we are expected to be involved with cabin service as necessary. Prior to the framework being introduced, I had a dedicated working position in Club World.
The only thing that has changed is that I assist/facilitate the Club World service if necessary and carryout my other responsibilities in a different order. But nothing has 'fundamentally' changed.

In the 4 months since the modest changes were introduced, I have had many conversations with colleagues who would agree with my previous statement.

Sure, some flights have been busy but we've coped.

I am still paid exactly the same amount and have exactly the same time off, leave etc. etc.
The company's changes were done to protect just that and that is exactly what has happened.
I am very happy with the offer our CEO made recently, as it went further and offered protection of variable pay when a new fleet is introduced.

This weekend, (very busy as Easter is almost here), I will be flying along side a lot of our colleagues.
I find that it keeps me grounded and focussed on why I am here.

[Re-Heat]

And I thought the conversation was developing well. Some posters need to ensure that they haven't had that glass of wine before hitting reply...

Socratic method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ask and answer questions to develop critical thinking - don't bother with meaningless mud-slinging...

[fly12345]

Same story different CSD: no problems whatsoever..

I am a CSD on WW fleet at LHR. My job has NOT fundamentally changed since the introduction of modest changes made in November.
Under the framework that the CSD appointment operates, we are expected to be involved with cabin service as necessary. Prior to the framework being introduced, I had a dedicated working position in Club World.
The only thing that has changed is that I assist/facilitate the Club World service if necessary and carryout my other responsibilities in a different order. But nothing has 'fundamentally' changed.

In the 4 months since the modest changes were introduced, I have had many conversations with colleagues who would agree with my previous statement.

Sure, some flights have been busy but we've coped.

I am still paid exactly the same amount and have exactly the same time off, leave etc. etc.
The company's changes were done to protect just that and that is exactly what has happened.
I am very happy with the offer our CEO made recently, as it went further and offered protection of variable pay when a new fleet is introduced.

This weekend, (very busy as Easter is almost here), I will be flying along side a lot of our colleagues.
I find that it keeps me grounded and focussed on why I am here.

[Tiramisu]

Good evening BAcabincrew,

I respect your opinion and also appreciate you coming here to have a reasonable debate.

I'm a Eurofleet CSD and have been with BA for 26 years. Like many others here, I do think BA's proposals are fair and very reasonable considering the financial situation we are in.

Not much has changed for us as EF CSDs except that on a 767, I now have to manage without a Purser. This can be just a little challenging on the Band 4 flights, namely Moscow, Athens and Istanbul when you have over 70 in Club and a full Euro Traveller cabin. That's all.
On other aircraft types, the 757 and the Airbus, it's relatively easy as the on board product has been reduced so it's very manageable.

Am I worried about New Fleet? No I'm not.
Bill Francis has reassured us over and over again that it will have no impact on our earnings.

After the forum at Waterside this week, I spent ten minutes talking to our CEO on a one to one basis. I actually admitted to him that I was well paid because I am, for the job that I do. He replied by saying that he totally understood that we had built our lives around our earnings and had no intention of taking any money away from us.

I believe Willie Walsh our CEO and Bill Francis our head of IFCE.

That's why I'm volunteering to work for the second time on my days off on Sat/Sunday just as I did last weekend to serve our customers. Participating in strike action is simply not an option, not when so many other departments in BA have made sacrifices and we haven't. It's so wrong.

I'm BA cabin crew and the above represent my personal views.

[fly12345]

Bassa says: TVNews Cameras at CRC today.


BA says: Quashing the rumours - media filming in the terminals during strike action
We understand that there are rumours that British Airways has arranged for media organizations to film crew arriving at the CRC during the strike action.

This is completely untrue.

BA and BAA are working closely together to ensure that no media are allowed access to any part of BA/BAA property in order to support crew to come to work with dignity.



Clarified,
I thought it was obvious from my reply that "I agree" and share the same experience and sentiments.

[Matt101]

Hey bacabincrew.

Please try to ignore the less than intelligent posts by those who are just trying to demean your job (such as barbie's boyfriend).

I have said to others before and I am afraid I have to say it to you as well, I completely disagree with your take on things but this thread would be terrible if people like you weren't willing to stick their head above the parapet and throw in your tuppence worth.

It helps us all to understand where you, as a supporter of BASSA, are coming from.

The likes of yourself, litebulbs and others ability to put up with being in the minority on this site are important to keeping some perspective alive. Whilst I don't necessarily agree with you, I can still empathise with you if your arguments warrant it.

Two points that I think have come from you quite clearly. You feel your management in IFS are of a generally mediocre grade, or maybe that some are excellent and some are quite poor. This is something that my time dealing with IFS managers at BA would also point to and I think few would disagree with you. You also seem to suggest that the majority of crew are striking over things that may happen in the future. May I suggest you don't point this out to BA as it isn't legal to strike over the assumption that something may happen to degrade your terms in the future.

This is my problem with the strike though, the reasons for it haven't been clearly defined, nor have the goals of said action, what will the end be? is this the best way to go about achieving that end? These are some of the many questions that arise amongst my friends and Unite seem to have been unable to answer them.

I left BA a while ago now for another Airline, but I still receive my BASSA mail, so have had a good read through it out of some weird curiosity (you do miss BA when you leave). I also have many friends still there on both sides of the argument. I have Pilot friends who have volunteered and subsequently been named by Union members alongside personal details (not much sympathy from me for the suspended crew as a result), I also have Cabin Crew friends who fall both sides of the fence, some who are Union reps and some who have registered their interest with the PCC. I'm ex CC myself (both at LGW & LHR in my time).

What I am saying is that I still hear most of what's going on from various sources, and the underlying thing I see(hear about) is fear. Fear of the company and what it may impose in the future, fear of the Union if you don't follow the whip and fear of repercussions from colleagues also. All of this fear coming from an inherent mistrust of each party by another.

I have little doubt that an offer similar to the one made just before good old Len put out strike dates could have been accepted by Unite (maybe with some changes) if they had any ability to trust BA, but that went along time ago, and this has resulted in a blockade of common sense by BASSA.

Equally BA no longer trusts the Union to be pragmatic in it's approach to dealing with negotiations. The politics of Unionism have overspilled into this IR nightmare as well making BA even less trusting of figures like Len McCluskey.

All the while the Brand and the Staff and most importantly the consumers are suffering and what I remember as a great company gets closer to changing forever.

Trust needs to be regained, but both sides need to let that happen and for me the next move on that more positive path would be for Unite to call an end to this mad IA.

I do however continue to wish ALL of you the best.

[midman]

Hahaha,

No breach of agreement for Open Skies to operate as a substitution. Please get your facts right before braying so inelegantly.

bacrewmember,

I take from your inability to state the numbers of cabin crew on the 777 on the South American flights that you'll amend your claim that up to 3 cabin crew have been taken off some flights. It's one crew member off 143 routes, and 2 off 7 routes.

Always good to get facts correct.