British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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a smile on our faces in getting more work finally
I'll buy all the drinks in HKG though if we do end up in a bar there!
Sounds really odd when expounded by an apparent proponent of these indefensible strikes.
For you number crunchers, a full CC training course which allows them to operate as BA crew, without restrictions, is 5 weeks. Each course requires 3 CC trainers off-line for CSST, 2 Av med trainers, and at least 3 SEP trainers, all of which reduce the available crew to fly. Recruitment is also done by off-line crew, say 4 per week (just a guess that one). They need more than just one set of uniform, unlike vcc. Trainers are not the only finite resource, classrooms, swimming pool, fire rig, evacuation slides, etc. We only have enough for a limited number.
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So, BA resort to 'legal Action' to hault the next batch of strikes...
If wee Willie ***** thought he could survive as he suggests, why go to the bother of going to court, on a technicality? If court rules in favour of BA, then crew may well call in sick instead... Happened before. As per the previous court ruling, a new ballot will simply be handed out and the result will be no big surprise...
Its over Willie. You destroyed EI, and youre now going to destroy BA.
Whats youre end-game? Off to the 'new alliance' in August as CEO... Big guy taking on the unions, so you will be feared in MAD...
Whos next then? LHR engineering (IB have stacks of room at MAD with their new hangars and ample expansion possabilities), LHR/LGW groundstaff (as per the regions - or are you waiting till after the London Olympics), BA IT. Please do give us a clue. Didnt think so
Iam sure the Spaniards will love your riverdance jig at board meetings
If wee Willie ***** thought he could survive as he suggests, why go to the bother of going to court, on a technicality? If court rules in favour of BA, then crew may well call in sick instead... Happened before. As per the previous court ruling, a new ballot will simply be handed out and the result will be no big surprise...
Its over Willie. You destroyed EI, and youre now going to destroy BA.
Whats youre end-game? Off to the 'new alliance' in August as CEO... Big guy taking on the unions, so you will be feared in MAD...
Whos next then? LHR engineering (IB have stacks of room at MAD with their new hangars and ample expansion possabilities), LHR/LGW groundstaff (as per the regions - or are you waiting till after the London Olympics), BA IT. Please do give us a clue. Didnt think so
Iam sure the Spaniards will love your riverdance jig at board meetings
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Couldonlyaffordafiver
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I don't however think that flinging around bright ideas of sacking one quarter of the crew community is either sensible or desirable.
It will save a lot of bad press on either side and the same 2000 extraneous cabin crew will still end up being removed due to the outstanding HR1.
Junior trash
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Does anyone know if Unites statement of results (however produced) included the number of spoilt ballots? I can't find it on here and I believe it may be important.
Also, how was the ballot result promulgated. The RMT lost partly by telling their members to check their website. The result must be promulgated to ALL who were balloted. So unless BASSA sent the results by post from the same database as the ballot there's a strong possibility BA have done them up like a kipper again.
Also, how was the ballot result promulgated. The RMT lost partly by telling their members to check their website. The result must be promulgated to ALL who were balloted. So unless BASSA sent the results by post from the same database as the ballot there's a strong possibility BA have done them up like a kipper again.
Last edited by Hotel Mode; 14th May 2010 at 22:26.
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There are not 5000+ strikers, as someone suggested....there may be (unverified as unofficial ballot and possibly unfair as not anonymous) 5000 no-voters, but we all know that only actually equates to about 2000 who have the courage of their convictions and will strike.
Let's just say, for arguments' sake that it is 5000.....that leaves 8500 non-strikers.
Having not done a single day's work since joining BA almost 5 years ago when at least one entire cabin crew have worked either just one short haul sector out OR back (often with standover attached, or done a quick Paris and back, go home type day, where the pilots almost ALWAYS work an extra 50%, sometimes an extra 300%.... I would imagine that the current 13,500 cc workforce could easily be stripped back to 9,500 to provide the full schedule- assuming that BA bring in a sensible contract that is benchmarked in the fairest way to be similar to other cabin crew jobs in other airlines- within the very generous confines of the law obviously- in this way BA should expect 900 flying hours from it's crew per year, rather than what is anecdotally around 500 at present for short haul.
With the reserves from the holding pool and temps-to-permanent plus the very east recruitment of laid off UK CC from other carriers, I'd imagine BA coukd run a full schedule within a few months- especially if in the interim it operated to legal limits on crew compliments- simple
Let's just say, for arguments' sake that it is 5000.....that leaves 8500 non-strikers.
Having not done a single day's work since joining BA almost 5 years ago when at least one entire cabin crew have worked either just one short haul sector out OR back (often with standover attached, or done a quick Paris and back, go home type day, where the pilots almost ALWAYS work an extra 50%, sometimes an extra 300%.... I would imagine that the current 13,500 cc workforce could easily be stripped back to 9,500 to provide the full schedule- assuming that BA bring in a sensible contract that is benchmarked in the fairest way to be similar to other cabin crew jobs in other airlines- within the very generous confines of the law obviously- in this way BA should expect 900 flying hours from it's crew per year, rather than what is anecdotally around 500 at present for short haul.
With the reserves from the holding pool and temps-to-permanent plus the very east recruitment of laid off UK CC from other carriers, I'd imagine BA coukd run a full schedule within a few months- especially if in the interim it operated to legal limits on crew compliments- simple
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Hotel Mode,
Does this help? A friend just sent it to me.
Number of ballot papers returned 10,288
Number of papers found to be invalid 2
Thus, total number of valid papers to be counted 10,286
Number Voting YES ................ 9,514 (92.49% of valid vote)
Number voting NO ................ 772 ( 7.51% of valid vote)
TOTAL 10,286 (100% of valid vote)
Does this help? A friend just sent it to me.
Number of ballot papers returned 10,288
Number of papers found to be invalid 2
Thus, total number of valid papers to be counted 10,286
Number Voting YES ................ 9,514 (92.49% of valid vote)
Number voting NO ................ 772 ( 7.51% of valid vote)
TOTAL 10,286 (100% of valid vote)
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5 weeks training for cc is absolute guff
The legal minimum is nearer 1 week and obviously crew recruited from other airlines direct (Ryanair, easyjet etc etc) or from airlines that have made MANY crew redundant (BMI, Thomas cook etc etc) it would be less then 3 days, most of which could be done off-site, en masse.
Also, Cranebank is not the only CC training facility in the UK, or Europe for that matter- BA could happily train 1000 cc to proficiency within a VERY short period of time if it needed to, and the government would probably happily help out with expeditious security checks etc
Don't let's kid ourselves with our own importance and our self-imagined irreplaceability- there are MANY MANY CC, the world over who could do an equally good job (and clearly in some cases MUCH better) but without the sabotage and the attitude that our customers have come to expect from a certain percentge of our 'team'.
The legal minimum is nearer 1 week and obviously crew recruited from other airlines direct (Ryanair, easyjet etc etc) or from airlines that have made MANY crew redundant (BMI, Thomas cook etc etc) it would be less then 3 days, most of which could be done off-site, en masse.
Also, Cranebank is not the only CC training facility in the UK, or Europe for that matter- BA could happily train 1000 cc to proficiency within a VERY short period of time if it needed to, and the government would probably happily help out with expeditious security checks etc
Don't let's kid ourselves with our own importance and our self-imagined irreplaceability- there are MANY MANY CC, the world over who could do an equally good job (and clearly in some cases MUCH better) but without the sabotage and the attitude that our customers have come to expect from a certain percentge of our 'team'.
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IMHO WW knows exactly what he is doing, his timing is critical here to the finishing of his master plan
and you cant see it before your very own eyes!!!!!
clock ticking and that tick is getting louder and louder!!!!!
and you cant see it before your very own eyes!!!!!
clock ticking and that tick is getting louder and louder!!!!!
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Nice to be back - thanks Mods
For legitimate complaints, use the 
button.
Don´t use the thread to whine about others, just because YOU thought the rulesd didn´t apply to you.
f40
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button.Don´t use the thread to whine about others, just because YOU thought the rulesd didn´t apply to you.
f40
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From A BA passengers (remember them) point of view this planned injunction is the worst possible scenario.
If WW gets his way, then another vote will be held, which will probably include many more items than just imposition...and with growing anger within the CC community (inc LGW) I forecast an even bigger majority.
That will mean we will be looking at further IA in the very busy months of June and July - if he wins the injunction...if he does not the British public will realise just what pathetic politics is going on within BA.
As it is now, forward bookings have virtually dried up during the next month or so ... I feel this has played right into the hands of UNITE.
Well done Willie
If WW gets his way, then another vote will be held, which will probably include many more items than just imposition...and with growing anger within the CC community (inc LGW) I forecast an even bigger majority.
That will mean we will be looking at further IA in the very busy months of June and July - if he wins the injunction...if he does not the British public will realise just what pathetic politics is going on within BA.
As it is now, forward bookings have virtually dried up during the next month or so ... I feel this has played right into the hands of UNITE.
Well done Willie
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Personally if I felt I was treated badly, I would just pack my bags and say bye bye! Why don't unhappy BA CC do the same?
Sorry to burst this particular bubble here Ottergirl, but
Recruitment is also done by off-line crew, say 4 per week (just a guess that one).
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Point Of Order
The reason why is simple...... BA CC are the best paid in the industry! ( this is probably why the union was prepared to offer a pay cut even though BA said that a pay cut was unneccesary)
I for one, as with all of my colleagues at our base, are paid very similar rates to those in other airlines.
Junior trash
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Hotel Mode,
Does this help? A friend just sent it to me.
Number of ballot papers returned 10,288
Number of papers found to be invalid 2
Thus, total number of valid papers to be counted 10,286
Number Voting YES ................ 9,514 (92.49% of valid vote)
Number voting NO ................ 772 ( 7.51% of valid vote)
TOTAL 10,286 (100% of valid vote)
Does this help? A friend just sent it to me.
Number of ballot papers returned 10,288
Number of papers found to be invalid 2
Thus, total number of valid papers to be counted 10,286
Number Voting YES ................ 9,514 (92.49% of valid vote)
Number voting NO ................ 772 ( 7.51% of valid vote)
TOTAL 10,286 (100% of valid vote)
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FLYBYMERCHANT
"Also, Cranebank is not the only CC training facility in the UK, or Europe for that matter- BA could happily train 1000 cc to proficiency within a VERY short period of time if it needed to"
Correct! It is not AND they are!
"Also, Cranebank is not the only CC training facility in the UK, or Europe for that matter- BA could happily train 1000 cc to proficiency within a VERY short period of time if it needed to"
Correct! It is not AND they are!
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Shame on you, BASSA Crew
There are 14000 BA Cabin Crew, 10000 of which are represented by Unite/BASSA According to Unite , there was a 71% turnout for the ballot . Which is 7100 people (71% x 10,000) According to Unite, 81% voted to reject Willie's offer . 81% of 7100 is 5,751. 5,751 crew members is 41% of the crew population of 14000. This means 59% (100% less 41%) of Crew are willing to accept Willie's latest offer and get on with it. I'm sorry but I'll repeat - a 59% majority wanting to accept the offer and move on. Those who rejected the offer should go with the 59% majority and sign up to Willie's offer. During the last strike, when the [alleged] majority were in favour of striking, they were calling on the minority to join in in solidarity, otherwise they were 'Scabin crew'. So what's the name for them , now they're in a minority , refusing to join the majority in solidarity and accept Willie's offer ? "Hypocrites" in my book.
And the fact that our lovely Gatwick crew have to put up with this really riles me.
Anyone who thinks the overwhelming majority of crew want to reject the offer and strike is more bonkers than Tony Woodley, Len Mcluskey and Hartley Hare.
And the fact that our lovely Gatwick crew have to put up with this really riles me.
Anyone who thinks the overwhelming majority of crew want to reject the offer and strike is more bonkers than Tony Woodley, Len Mcluskey and Hartley Hare.
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our future
For what i read and hear, it is sad that CC are now considered by the vast majority of the public a bunch of petty old fashion primadonna. We have been trying to refresh our brand image in line with the more modern look and feel of Virgin at the same time as maintaining the class service we advertise as we compete with the likes of Singapore, Emirates, Ethiad.
This soap opera that the strike has become contradicts our entire marketing strategy. Crew face customers, they are the walking marketing advertising, hence we now need new crew, new enthusiastic and fun people who want to work for the airline, it's time to move on, lets leave these holding their strike paper behind and support the good ones (majority i belive) and the new comers (in the mix fleet).
This soap opera that the strike has become contradicts our entire marketing strategy. Crew face customers, they are the walking marketing advertising, hence we now need new crew, new enthusiastic and fun people who want to work for the airline, it's time to move on, lets leave these holding their strike paper behind and support the good ones (majority i belive) and the new comers (in the mix fleet).
Last edited by Melissa1510; 15th May 2010 at 09:47.
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Centre of the Universe Syndrome?
European legacy carriers pay their equivalents of BAs CSD the same type of money. Responsible job in a decent company = good salary.
Same goes for the wages of the rank and file FAs; BA pays better than other airlines in the UK, but not better than similar airlines in Europe.
The vast and very significant difference is the way the wages are arrived at each month. BAs system is complicated, outdated, time consuming to administer and horribly expensive to carry out.
By massively simplifying the payment structure (as the company has proposed) real savings would be made without significantly affecting CC wages.
Win-win.