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British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI

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British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI

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Old 12th Mar 2010, 21:34
  #2681 (permalink)  
 
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Mariner 9
However, the intelligent response from BA would be to keep the majority of staff on their side within the necessary cost cutting target. If that means the beligerent BASSA reps and their ilk surviving unscathed, so be it.
I'd agree BA would like to keep the majority onside but for that majority's sake they have to remove the BASSA Reps ability to threaten IA everytime management make a decision the reps don't agree with.
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Old 12th Mar 2010, 21:36
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Even before today, if you had put BA's previous proposals, next to Unites latest proposals and asked a person outside the airline, with no knowledge of the dispute, which proposal was BA's and which the union's, i would bet good money that 9 out of 10 people would have guessed the reverse of what is the case.

Today, with BA's latest (withdrawn) offer, that same test would, I have no doubt, have a score of 10 out of 10.

This whole sorry episode is a history lesson for any students of IR of what misguided loyalty for loyalty's sake to a union can result in.

Union members now pay a union to look after it's own wellbeing at their expense.

That is why I am no longer a crew member with union membership, for all the risks that involves as an employee.
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Old 12th Mar 2010, 21:40
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I'm curious Litebulbs,

I'm asking you directly this question because you seem to come from the union angle (nothing wrong with that!). A suggestion that has been made repeatedly in this discussion is that Unite (or at least BASSA) is prepared to sell its membership down the river in terms of pay cuts to maintain its membership numbers (and hence its monthly revenue from subscriptions).

Do you think there is any truth to this suspicion, as it quite clearly must be a worry for BASSA to lose roughly 10% of its membership in a short space of time?

I'm asking this question not from a CC perspective but from a general union/non-union perspective - as it queries the core ability of a union to represent its members without conflicting interests!

Thanks for any enlightenment!!
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Old 12th Mar 2010, 21:58
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Beagle9

Even before today, if you had put BA's previous proposals, next to Unites latest proposals and asked a person outside the airline, with no knowledge of the dispute, which proposal was BA's and which the union's, i would bet good money that 9 out of 10 people would have guessed the reverse of what is the case.
I agree.

May I ask, why do you think the majority of BA CC do not seem to wonder about this?
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Old 12th Mar 2010, 22:28
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I wish I knew, I really do.

It just seems to be historical - go to BASSA for your "information", everything the Company says must be lies.

Believe me I've tried to give my crews an accurate summation of what the facts are. Many, it's clear, don't even have a basic knowledge of what BA has offered. Even now, I still hear "I'll have no work in 3 years time", "I'll be forced onto New Fleet", "the job won't be worth doing in 5 years, I'll be forced to leave".

I'm exhausted trying, quite frankly.
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Old 12th Mar 2010, 22:32
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Originally Posted by Beagle9
I wish I knew, I really do.

It just seems to be historical - go to BASSA for your "information", everything the Company says must be lies.

Believe me I've tried to give my crews an accurate summation of what the facts are. Many, it's clear, don't even have a basic knowledge of what BA has offered. Even now, I still hear "I'll have no work in 3 years time", "I'll be forced onto New Fleet", "the job won't be worth doing in 5 years, I'll be forced to leave".

I'm exhausted trying, quite frankly.
So how did you allay those fears?
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Old 12th Mar 2010, 22:52
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Obviously plenty of media coverage, but the Daily Mail's report includes an article by Willie Walsh - at the bottom of this link:

BA strike: Cabin crew announce March strike dates | Mail Online

He's certainly not backing down.
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Old 12th Mar 2010, 23:03
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The article by Mr Walsh:

So we are here again. Unite's relentless insistence on Groundhog Day amounts to another cold-blooded threat to the travel plans of hundreds of thousands of innocent people trying to pursue normal lives.
Unite does not care about ordinary people. It regards the travelling public as expendable victims in its blinkered efforts to improve what is already an extremely fair package for cabin crew, especially in the very difficult financial circumstances British Airways faces.
Let's focus on the essentials. In the worst recession for 80 years, British Airways is heading for a second year of record annual losses.
Our revenue will be down £1billion this year, and we cannot hope to build a sustainable airline for the future unless we cut costs.
Many thousands of British Airways staff understand this. Our pilots and engineers agreed to efficiencies months ago. A third of our managers volunteered for redundancy.
And nearly 7,000 colleagues put their hands up for temporary pay cuts because they wanted to help our company in its time of need.
They understand that British Airways has no God-given right to exist. They understand that if you don't adapt to the changing world in which you operate, you are heading for the history books.
Look at Japan Airlines. A flag-carrying stalwart of global aviation for decades, which plunged into bankruptcy in January.
Yet Unite, to which our cabin crew belong, refuses to get the message. It prefers to believe the earth is flat.
It believes nothing changes. That economies go on growing for ever. That competition does not increase. That practices born in the cosy, nationalised industries of 40 years ago must be preserved in the global economic swirl of today.

We have been talking to Unite for more than a year about ways of reducing cabin crew costs. In all that time, the union has offered no more than temporary palliatives or grand headline figures with negligible substance.
Everyone knows that British Airways cabin crew are the best rewarded in the UK industry. According to the Civil Aviation Authority, the costs of British Airways crew are twice those of their Virgin Atlantic counterparts.
Nonetheless, we have put together a package that involves no pay cut for existing crew.
After nine months of fruitless talks with Unite about reducing crew numbers, we went ahead last October with accepting requests from 1,000 crew for voluntary redundancy and from another 3,000 crew for switches to part-time working.
Mr Walsh says Unite's plans do not take into account the feelings of 'ordinary people' by wrecking their plans to travel with British Airways this Easter
To accommodate these requests, we made a modest reduction in our onboard crew numbers on flights from Heathrow. On a 747, for example, we trimmed the complement of crew from 15 to 14. And we now include the crew supervisor in the cabin routines to maintain customer service levels.
These are the changes Unite tried to reverse through legal action - despite the fact that for years it has agreed to operate our flights from Gatwick with equivalent numbers.
The High Court rejected Unite's arguments. It ruled that our changes had not breached crews' contracts, were reasonable and implemented properly.
The judge also drew attention to the difficulties of dealing with Unite because of the 'mutual rivalry, hostility and mistrust' between officials of its two founding unions, the Transport and General Workers and Amicus. Negotiations were twice held up for days because representatives of the two factions would not sit in the same room.
The changes to onboard crew numbers would save us more than £60million a year. In the talks at the TUC, Unite came up with ideas for alternative savings that fell a long way short of this figure.
We made clear at the TUC that we were ready to be flexible and would consider refinements of the changes, provided any additional cost was offset by other adjustments in the cabin crew budget.
That offer was conditional on Unite not naming strike dates - so yesterday's decision showed they have invalidated the offer themselves.
British Airways cabin crew are rightly renowned for their professionalism and skills - and I do not believe that they want to wage war on our customers. They have been cynically misled by Unite. And many often feel reluctant to stand up to Unite's militant activists for fear of being excluded when on trips to an unfamiliar city or culture.
But if Unite thinks a strike will ground this airline, it will be disappointed. The flag will continue to fly.
We will run a full operation from London City airport. At Gatwick, we plan to fly all our long-haul services and some short-haul.
And at Heathrow, we plan to operate significant numbers of long-haul flights and, with the help of chartered aircraft and crews, short-haul services too.
I will not allow Unite to ruin this company. I will not allow it to frustrate our plans to come through this recession, strengthen our business and improve services for customers and opportunities for all staff.
That is what Unite wants to wreck. I am absolutely determined that it will fail.
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Old 12th Mar 2010, 23:06
  #2689 (permalink)  
 
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baggersup wrote:
Wasn't the offer to Unite to which they refer, and the two-week extension BA was offering during which they could poll their members, contingent upon Unite not announcing strike dates during that time?

But then they went ahead and announced strike dates anyway, violating their agreement with Walsh?

So the extension agreement between BA and Unite to let them review this and vote on it was null and void?

So that's why the offer was rescinded by BA? Or was that not good info?
This is why I think BA's offer was rescinded.

Let's say that BA made an offer that saves the company £60 per annum. But before this offer can be put to a ballot, as requested by Derek Simpson (Unite’s joint general secretary), strikes are called which will cost BA. So, as the cost-cutting calculations in BA's offer are immediately invalidated, the offer itself is therefore invalidated.
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Old 12th Mar 2010, 23:17
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Caribbean Boy

Yes, that's how I see it, and according to the Express (yes, I know) a BA source asked whether BA would re-instate the offer replied "If talks do resume, they will not be on the basis of previous offers.”

Seems pretty clear.
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Old 12th Mar 2010, 23:28
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Bill Francis, Head of Inflight Customer Experience (IFCE), has repeatedly stated that industrial action will cost crew. This is what he said in a message to crew yesterday: "As I have said before, a strike can only make matters worse and the announcement of strike dates means the savings and the changes in IFCE will inevitably need to increase."

It is as plain as daylight: cabin crew who strike will force BA to reduce future offers, and those who keep working will unfortunately probably have to share the cost.
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Old 12th Mar 2010, 23:31
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Walnut asked:
As the strike is official then until 90 days has elapsed BA is unable to employ replacements from outside the company. Hence the great push to find replacement C/C company volunteers, which is legal. If this strike gets protracted can BA survive 90 days on this basis.?
The volunteer cabin crew have potentially signed up to six months of cc duties. That is how long the company's contingency plans currently run to. Only yesterday the company was reminding employees it is still not too late to volunteer for cc duties, even more courses are planned! This is a long term solution, not just to cover a few days in March!

Operations at LGW and LCY will be barely affected. Please also realise that 6000 strikers could potentially (and for various reasons) be completely replaced by perhaps one third of that number, working harder, over a shortish period! Of course wet leasing of a/c eases the burden on BA even further.

It's absolutely crystal clear that BA's plans are extensive, very well advanced, and absolutely workable.

BA can easily survive long enough to offer employment to plenty of 'ex' cabin crew from other airlines, who sadly find themselves currently lacking an employer! (Undoubtedly giving them a payrise too!)

There can only be one winner here!

The aircraft is about to leave the departure gate. You are either on it, or you (and your baggage) will be offloaded.... For good!

Last edited by 4468; 12th Mar 2010 at 23:44.
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Old 12th Mar 2010, 23:47
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More interesting to see how the public will vote with their feet, and simply not use BA as their first booking alternative.
BA might not have enough time to rebuild their reputation, unless they show that they will not be bullied by a bunch over over pamperd sky waitresses and waiters! Because that's all you really are, you might as well have been working at your local Starbucks or chinese restaurant, at least they give you a smile, genuine or not!

BA stop the perks, what will happen to all the BA CC living abroad? Pay your own ticket to work then, yes??
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Old 13th Mar 2010, 00:06
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Tiger & 61, I can understand you view, I really can. But remember there are a lot of cabin crew that do really try and have a customer first work ethic.

Headline numbers like 80% in favour of a strike dont take into account the non voters or the CC staff that were not members of (or recently left...!) Unite.

The number of good, informed, professional staff are not so tiny as you might imagine.
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Old 13th Mar 2010, 00:41
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4468
"undoubtedly giving them a pay rise".It is certain that they would earn more than they get on umemployment benifit but do not be under the impression that they would earn more than in their previous jobs.
employment conditions would be similar to current practices at london gatwick ie a basic of £10900 pa gross with flight pay of around £2.40 an hour.This equates to roughly £1400 a month net which I believe is a lot less than Easy approx £1800 and other charter airlines.
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Old 13th Mar 2010, 01:29
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Is it possible?

Is it possible, with all the union politicking, that the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. Tony Woodley is involved with the negotiations but Len McClusky isn't being given the whole picture, hence he did not know about the no strike date deal?

It seems to me that the Unite leadership are giving Len a lot of rope. It is now long enough to hang him!

After all, there is a leadership election due soon, and who wants a loose cannon to be in charge?
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Old 13th Mar 2010, 01:42
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More interesting to see how the public will vote with their feet, and simply not use BA as their first booking alternative.
More interesting to see how the public will vote at the polls and simply not use the Labour Party as their first new government alternative.

Untie (intentional) has cast loose Gordon Brown's chances of renewing his lease on 10 Downing Street for a further five years - at least.

A public that has just had its travel plans fecked up - yet again - by LaLa Malone, Len McLusty and all our other union "leaders" will seek vengeance at the ballot boxes. It will not just be F or J pax who will want to shaft Gordon Brown: everyone will.

And all this just to protect a few (undoubtedly) overpaid and underworked CSDs.

Give me strength.

Last edited by Chuchinchow; 13th Mar 2010 at 02:08.
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Old 13th Mar 2010, 01:53
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Talking of Miz LizAnne Malone, has anyone seen her in London, or heard of her, in recent weeks?

Like so many of her devoted followers, she has gone terribly quiet of late.

I do hope that she is fit and well, and ready to come over from LA to lead her troops in the picket lines.

Or would that be too much to expect?

The kitchen fitting business must be keeping her busy, I suppose, so she cannot spare a single moment for what BASSA members are paying her to do: LEAD FROM THE FRONT.
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Old 13th Mar 2010, 02:06
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From Bill Francis - serious implications for strikers

Now BA cannot make it more clear how serious they are about the permanent loss of Staff Travel and also hint at you being "locked out" on no pay until they can reasonably re-roster you.

Dear Colleague

This has been another difficult day for British Airways and our customers.

I am personally very saddened that a year after we started talking with
Unite it has once again chosen to disrupt our customers’ family holidays
and business trips.

It is heartening to see many of you don’t support a strike and lots of you
have let us know that you will come to work - thank you.

If you haven’t done so already, you can register your intention to work via
ESS applications, My Opportunities, Backing BA and this is completely
confidential. It will help us to protect your current roster if you do
this within the next 48 hours.

With your help and the support of thousands of colleagues from across the
airline, we will keep our great airline flying.

We will help and support you to come to work

I do understand that coming to work during a strike may be daunting and
there are lots of ways we will help and support you.

Travel expenses: We will pay reasonable travel expenses (with receipts) if
you want to come to work by taxi or public transport
Car parking expenses: We will pay reasonable parking expenses (with
receipts) so you can park in any car park at Heathrow or use the NCP car
park at Gatwick
Patrolling car parks: We will have managers and extra security patrols at
alternative designated car parks and existing crew car parks and we will
protect your anonymity on crew
buses
Extra changing areas: There will be extra changing areas in the crew report
centres so you do not need to travel to or from work in uniform. We will
not insist that your suitcase
meets uniform standards.
Controlled access: There will be more managers in the crew report centres
and only rostered crew will be able to enter on strike days. Crew on
arriving flights will not be able
to come back into the centres.
One flying team: We have arranged for you to report with your captain and
first officers and to stay with them for the whole trip
Alternative hotels: We have arranged some alternative downroute hotels and
will have managers there to help you.

You can find out more about all of these options on the IFCE intranet site
from Saturday (March 13).

Respectful behaviour to all colleagues

Whatever your personal views, please be respectful of your colleagues.
Emotions are running high, but we must respect all our colleagues and
behave in a dignified manner.

If you feel in any way bullied, threatened, intimidated or harassed, we are
here to support you and take action. Please talk to your crew team manager
or call any of the help-lines that are available to you. The details will
be on the IFCE intranet site from Saturday (March 13).

How the decision to strike will affect you personally

For those of you who decide to strike, or call in sick, it is important
that you are aware of how your decision will personally impact on you.

Regrettably history has taught us that absence rises significantly during
industrial action and colleagues choose to call in sick to avoid having to
decide whether to support a strike or come to work. This is not
acceptable.

By not coming to work, either because you support a strike or you call in
sick, you are contributing to the massive financial damage a strike would
cause and we will expect you to help us recover the money we will lose
and
this means:

You will lose pay. You will not be paid from the point you do not report
for duty up to the point we can reasonably allocate you another duty.
The
withdrawal of pay will include MBT or days off at the end of the duty that
you do not report for.


You will lose staff travel. If you miss any duty on your roster during the
strike, you will be banned from using staff travel permanently.
This ban
covers you and all your nominees and you will not be eligible to be a
nominee on other colleagues’ staff travel. Staff travel is a
non-contractual benefit that the company is legally entitled to withdraw
from you.

You will not be paid for absence from work. If you call in sick or are
absent we will assume you are taking industrial action.
In every case, you
will have the opportunity to meet with a crew team manager once you return
to duty to talk with them about the reasons for your absence. We will not
authorise any leave unless there are exceptional circumstances, such as a
family bereavement.

Broader consequences – how the strike could affect everyone in IFCE

I have been working hard to make the savings we need and to protect you,
our current crew. That is what the plan I implemented last year achieved
but your union has now put that at risk. Clearly the more of you that come
to work and the more flights we can operate, the less money we will need to
recoup in cost savings.

This is very important – please read

If you do not want to go on strike, you must report if you have any sort of
rostered duty in the air and on the ground.

This is very important. Even if the flight you are due to operate has been
cancelled, you must still report for your duty.

If you do not come to work for any reason we will assume you are taking
part in strike action and you will lose pay and your staff travel.


Thank you for coming to work

Even with the fantastic support from many of you, a strike will test the
loyalty of our customers and cost us millions of pounds that we will need
to get back from more cost savings.

It is not too late and we will not turn our back on the negotiations
because ultimately an answer must be found.

Your crew team manager will be telephoning you in the coming days and I
would encourage you to speak with them about concerns you may have and how
we can support you. You can also telephone our crew helpline on 0800 389
0381 to speak to someone in confidence and we will be extending the opening
hours from Monday to 0800 to 1900 seven days a week.

Please help us to help our customers by coming to work and joining the
thousands of colleagues who have come forward to Back BA.

Bill
Head of Inflight Customer Experience
Now, don't say you weren't warned. And for those commuters on the BASSA forum who say "there are too many of us, he can't take staff travel away permanently"......he CAN. It is NOT BA's problem how you get to work. It is, quite simply, your responsibility to get there and BA have no obligation whatsoever to subsidise your commute. You will lose ST permanently and if you can't get to work / it's too expensive to commute, then you'll simply have to leave your job.

Also, to dispel another myth from the BASSA Forum (Mods, this IS important as some crew really don't understand what's happening)

DO WE KNOW HOW WE GET PAID BY THE UNION WHEN WE'RE ON STRIKE? do we have to sign in before we go on the picket line ? We'll be on more money than the volunteers !! £2.40 an hour for the time they are in the air
Er, no! If you strike, you'll lose your basic pay AND allowances - to be replaced by £30 per day from Unite. The volunteers will receive Basic pay AND £2.40 an hour! You will categorically NOT be "on more money then the volunteers".
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Old 13th Mar 2010, 02:28
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Clearly the more of you that come
to work and the more flights we can operate, the less money we will need to
recoup in cost savings.
Stated there yet again I note...
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