British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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"No" voters and non-BASSA cabin crew
What disturbs me about this is that non BASSA members and people who voted NO will be penalised too which is clearly unfair.
How can they be held responsible for BASSA`s intransigence?
How can they be held responsible for BASSA`s intransigence?
As for the BASSA members who voted "no" I regretfully suspect that they (as they cannot prove how they voted) will just have to take their chances with the rest of their comrades.
It's called "solidarity" in union-speak.
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Juan and Wascrew
Too often during this prolonged slow train crash people have thought of the situation from an individual perspective, which on the whole would seem fair enough.
The BASSA reps, and the members who have supported and allowed them to stay in post have all failed to view it from the viewpoint of the company, it is a business after all.
To say that you can SOSR the contracts, remove the restrictive practices but keep the salary the same is because you are viewing it from a personal perspective.
Try thinking from a management perspective.........if you SOSR'd the contracts.......would you keep the salaries the same, or would you use the opportunity to permanently introduce a LGW cost base, and LGW flexible working?
Too often during this prolonged slow train crash people have thought of the situation from an individual perspective, which on the whole would seem fair enough.
The BASSA reps, and the members who have supported and allowed them to stay in post have all failed to view it from the viewpoint of the company, it is a business after all.
To say that you can SOSR the contracts, remove the restrictive practices but keep the salary the same is because you are viewing it from a personal perspective.
Try thinking from a management perspective.........if you SOSR'd the contracts.......would you keep the salaries the same, or would you use the opportunity to permanently introduce a LGW cost base, and LGW flexible working?
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Andy,
you are absolutely correct. The point I was, clumsily, making was that there was a huge amount that BASSA could have negotiated with, before offering up wage cuts. There are millions worth of savings to be made without any need to reduce the take home pay of the crew.
If SOSR is used I would fully expect a whole different agenda from BA.
you are absolutely correct. The point I was, clumsily, making was that there was a huge amount that BASSA could have negotiated with, before offering up wage cuts. There are millions worth of savings to be made without any need to reduce the take home pay of the crew.
If SOSR is used I would fully expect a whole different agenda from BA.
Well, if Watersidewonker's ramblings (such as those quoted in this post) are deemed fit enough to remain here, then here goes .....
I can't wait to see the troublemakers in BA finally get what they have so noisily asked for. They have bared their arses, in public, and are now going to get them royally kicked. About time too, as the livelihoods of far more people have been put in serious jeopardy by their mindless actions.
I can't wait to see the airport ground to a standstill and all those dogooders coming in only to be told to go home again the twists are starting to unfold.
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BBC News says that unite has told them that lines of communication are still open between themselves and BA, via the TUC.
Probably something along the lines of:
BA: "Ha!"
unite: "HELP!"
my views, not those of my employer, BA.
Probably something along the lines of:
BA: "Ha!"
unite: "HELP!"
my views, not those of my employer, BA.
"I can't wait to see the troublemakers in BA finally get what they have so noisily asked for. They have bared their arses, in public, and are now going to get them royally kicked. About time too, as the livelihoods of far more people have been put in serious jeopardy by their mindless actions."
Well said!
The Sacred Cow that has for too many years been the CC contract needs to be kicked into reality. Whatever happened to common sense and the voice of reason? Throughout all of this, I can't help bemoaning the demise of CC89, how will CC ever regain the respect of public opinion and expect to be taken seriously from now on?
Try talking to the guys in IT, where jobs have been cut drastically in recent years & where those left behind now have an increased workload for no extra pay. I know that they're not the only department to suffer, but unlike the militant Bassa dinosaurs, they understood the gravity of the Company's situation and just got on with their jobs and lives.
We've never been the most popular workforce community, but this is going to relegate CC's popularity to the level of the substance which I pick up in a little scented plastic bag whenever I walk the dog.
Well said!
The Sacred Cow that has for too many years been the CC contract needs to be kicked into reality. Whatever happened to common sense and the voice of reason? Throughout all of this, I can't help bemoaning the demise of CC89, how will CC ever regain the respect of public opinion and expect to be taken seriously from now on?
Try talking to the guys in IT, where jobs have been cut drastically in recent years & where those left behind now have an increased workload for no extra pay. I know that they're not the only department to suffer, but unlike the militant Bassa dinosaurs, they understood the gravity of the Company's situation and just got on with their jobs and lives.
We've never been the most popular workforce community, but this is going to relegate CC's popularity to the level of the substance which I pick up in a little scented plastic bag whenever I walk the dog.
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There seem to be a few mis-informed statements to clear up.
There is no such thing as a pre-97 contract CSD. All the CSD pay scales were re-negotiated post 97 when the job-spec was re-done (1999 I think) and so all CSD's, regardless of when they started, are on the same pay scale. The Purser scale does discriminate between pre and post 97 but the CSD one does not.
strikemaster2
No it's not. The Cabin crew job spec is much more than to just give out the product on BA. In fact we require our crew to 'go the extra mile' and put themselves out to please their customers. If it was just a matter of bunging out some food as requested then our frequent flyers would not keep coming back. And they do, in their thousands!
Listening to peoples stories of their travels, admiring their off-spring, bringing a blanket just cos they looked cold, chatting about their book choice, helping when they feel a bit poorly, remembering them when you've seen them on a previous flight, searching around the aircraft for a piece of fruit because they have a gluten alergy, the list goes on. The role of CC is so much more! And most of our crew do this everytime they come to work, instinctively!
Surely the third choice is to await redeployment for 52 weeks and then take redundancy?
The top pay point for a full time WW LHR CSD on the original pre-97 contract is £43k.
strikemaster2
Quote:
I just give the service as laid down by BA.
That is all you are required to do.
I just give the service as laid down by BA.
That is all you are required to do.
Listening to peoples stories of their travels, admiring their off-spring, bringing a blanket just cos they looked cold, chatting about their book choice, helping when they feel a bit poorly, remembering them when you've seen them on a previous flight, searching around the aircraft for a piece of fruit because they have a gluten alergy, the list goes on. The role of CC is so much more! And most of our crew do this everytime they come to work, instinctively!
Unfortunately if new contracts are offered using SOSR, they have two choices, one of which is acceptance. The other is to resign, which they can either do by submitting their resignation or simply by not signing the new contract. Hardball. 
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Ooops
Surely the third choice is to await redeployment for 52 weeks and then take redundancy?
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Surely the third choice is to await redeployment for 52 weeks and then take redundancy?
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Ottergirl
52 weeks and then take redundancy?...........um, not under SOSR!!
You are notified that in 90 days your new contract will begin. You either stay on past 90 days and begin under the new contract, or effectively have given 90 days notice.
What would you do if you were running a business? Especially if a group of staff costs twice that of the competition.
52 weeks and then take redundancy?...........um, not under SOSR!!
You are notified that in 90 days your new contract will begin. You either stay on past 90 days and begin under the new contract, or effectively have given 90 days notice.
What would you do if you were running a business? Especially if a group of staff costs twice that of the competition.
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I disagree....
I disagree, the hole that has been dug by BASSA has nothing to do with this individual.. Most weeks in the BA News there are vacancies for Air Cabin Crew, this guy could apply for the job since he's already an employee of BA - or he's applied to volunteer - just an alternative route to where he wanted to be.
As has been posted already, he didn't hold an airside pass, would not have been granted one had he applied so job done...
Now back to topic, how is the local job market looking where you live?
Of course, we are all assuming BASSA have the bottle to actually call a strike... they don't have to but no doubt will have some 100% BASSA supporters desperate to know why they had baulked.
No doubt, WWW will be along soon to reveal the master plan.... shall we shoot ourselves or let BA pull the trigger?
As has been posted already, he didn't hold an airside pass, would not have been granted one had he applied so job done...
Now back to topic, how is the local job market looking where you live?
Of course, we are all assuming BASSA have the bottle to actually call a strike... they don't have to but no doubt will have some 100% BASSA supporters desperate to know why they had baulked.
No doubt, WWW will be along soon to reveal the master plan.... shall we shoot ourselves or let BA pull the trigger?
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BA have clearly stated that they do not wish to take any money off of current employees, agreed?
If they do not wish to take money off of people, what contractual terms do they wish to vary using SOSR?
SOSR is not a punishment, it is a legal term.
If they do not wish to take money off of people, what contractual terms do they wish to vary using SOSR?
SOSR is not a punishment, it is a legal term.
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That is the BA line AT THE MOMENT...
If UNITE are stupid enough to call a strike, the gloves come off and all previous promises are invalid.
If you cause damage to the company, you too will feel damage to your T's and C's. An eye for an eye....
The so called 'talks' happening today will purely be BA outlining what actions they will be taking if a strike is announced. Sobering stuff.
If UNITE are stupid enough to call a strike, the gloves come off and all previous promises are invalid.
If you cause damage to the company, you too will feel damage to your T's and C's. An eye for an eye....
The so called 'talks' happening today will purely be BA outlining what actions they will be taking if a strike is announced. Sobering stuff.
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That is the BA line AT THE MOMENT...
If UNITE are stupid enough to call a strike, the gloves come off and all previous promises are invalid.
If you cause damage to the company, you too will feel damage to your T's and C's. An eye for an eye....
The so called 'talks' happening today will purely be BA outlining what actions they will be taking if a strike is announced. Sobering stuff.
If UNITE are stupid enough to call a strike, the gloves come off and all previous promises are invalid.
If you cause damage to the company, you too will feel damage to your T's and C's. An eye for an eye....
The so called 'talks' happening today will purely be BA outlining what actions they will be taking if a strike is announced. Sobering stuff.
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Listening to peoples stories of their travels, admiring their off-spring, bringing a blanket just cos they looked cold, chatting about their book choice, helping when they feel a bit poorly, remembering them when you've seen them on a previous flight, searching around the aircraft for a piece of fruit because they have a gluten alergy, the list goes on. The role of CC is so much more! And most of our crew do this everytime they come to work, instinctively!
Definately worth double the market rate, now leave the crew alone, stop chasing them for savings and lets save the company between the rest of us.
I'm more than happy to take a further paycut. BASSA 100%.
Oh sarcasm is a wonderful thing.
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BA have said AGAIN and AGAIN, bad behaviour will not be rewarded. The pleasant soundbites coming from BF are an attempt to get crew to influence their union not to strike.
BA have also said the full costs of any strike will be recovered from the IFCE budget by means of increased cost savings. Current crew WILL NOT keep their present T's and C's if there is a strike.
BA have also said the full costs of any strike will be recovered from the IFCE budget by means of increased cost savings. Current crew WILL NOT keep their present T's and C's if there is a strike.
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That was not what I said ploddingalong, so don't twist things around. I was merely pointing out that actually cabin crew do a lot more than bung out food, be it for BA, QF or any other full-service airline.
yetmoreslf - maybe you never needed them and clearly you have not flown with me. Its true that our Club passengers experience more of this kind of thing because they pay for a higher crew to pax ratio so its easier to identify their needs. That said, many of the Eurotraveller pax on my flight this morning will have left very satisfied!
yetmoreslf - maybe you never needed them and clearly you have not flown with me. Its true that our Club passengers experience more of this kind of thing because they pay for a higher crew to pax ratio so its easier to identify their needs. That said, many of the Eurotraveller pax on my flight this morning will have left very satisfied!
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I've not been around for the start of this thread and it's predecessors, but I've been following for some time, and I'd just like to inject a bit of reasoned argument for CC, against the bullying style of management that came with Walsh and the self consuming destruction it has brought to BA
1/ SOSR. Although yes, it does appear as if this is a valid enough tactic, the result will be as many unfair/constructive dismissal tribunals against BA as people who leave over it. In fact, any mass-action like that will have huge cost implications for BA, costs which they won't recoup and which will be being paid for on the other side by a variety of insurance covers. I'm not sure people appreciate how difficult a position it would be to defend on so many fronts.
2/ Disparity of pay.
a/ British Airways is never going to be able to compete against budget airlines and to be honest it's a nonsense that it should try. WW has effectively forced Aer Lingus into doing so and in doing so appears to have all but wiped the airline out. BA exists as a premium airline and does very well in that niche.
b/ From a British business perspective, their worldwide route coverage makes them far cheaper to deal with than most others. Pay a little more for a single negotiated contract or a little less for heaps of negotiations? One of the costs of doing business in this way is a slightly more expensive IFCE budget.
I appreciate both sides of the argument to some extent but I just don't get why anyone would believe EITHER side. Walsh has been brought in to break the unions and all employee contracts in order to provide the company with far more flexibility in future. The unions have internal problems and a political need to protect the numbers of unionised employees.
Both sides have repeatedly demonstrated their willing to lie through their teeth, to bully and to act illegally, it's a pity that Cabin Crew are in the middle of it and more of a pity that it's such a huge battle that it's destroyed all BA's morale and inter-departmental trust.
When your manager has been trained as crew and breaks the strike taking place to defend your contract, how are they supposed to go back to being your manager afterwards? It's a joke and a bad one at that. The only decent solution is for Walsh to resign AND for BASSA to be decapitated and all senior staff to be replaced. Sadly, I can't see both of those things happening.
1/ SOSR. Although yes, it does appear as if this is a valid enough tactic, the result will be as many unfair/constructive dismissal tribunals against BA as people who leave over it. In fact, any mass-action like that will have huge cost implications for BA, costs which they won't recoup and which will be being paid for on the other side by a variety of insurance covers. I'm not sure people appreciate how difficult a position it would be to defend on so many fronts.
2/ Disparity of pay.
a/ British Airways is never going to be able to compete against budget airlines and to be honest it's a nonsense that it should try. WW has effectively forced Aer Lingus into doing so and in doing so appears to have all but wiped the airline out. BA exists as a premium airline and does very well in that niche.
b/ From a British business perspective, their worldwide route coverage makes them far cheaper to deal with than most others. Pay a little more for a single negotiated contract or a little less for heaps of negotiations? One of the costs of doing business in this way is a slightly more expensive IFCE budget.
I appreciate both sides of the argument to some extent but I just don't get why anyone would believe EITHER side. Walsh has been brought in to break the unions and all employee contracts in order to provide the company with far more flexibility in future. The unions have internal problems and a political need to protect the numbers of unionised employees.
Both sides have repeatedly demonstrated their willing to lie through their teeth, to bully and to act illegally, it's a pity that Cabin Crew are in the middle of it and more of a pity that it's such a huge battle that it's destroyed all BA's morale and inter-departmental trust.
When your manager has been trained as crew and breaks the strike taking place to defend your contract, how are they supposed to go back to being your manager afterwards? It's a joke and a bad one at that. The only decent solution is for Walsh to resign AND for BASSA to be decapitated and all senior staff to be replaced. Sadly, I can't see both of those things happening.