British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
To use a technical term, I am gobsmacked. Why would a TU turn down that very generous BA offer, and replace it with an offer to reduce salaries by 2.6%??
There must be a reasonably understandable rationale - other than snipes about lazy CSDs. Does anyone know the rationale??
There must be a reasonably understandable rationale - other than snipes about lazy CSDs. Does anyone know the rationale??
Ut Sementem Feeceris
1.This Thread has simply become predominantly anti-BASSA, and therefore fails to provide a balanced view of proceedings. Furthermore, it discourages sensible BASSA supporters from contributing.
2.The BASSA enthusiasts are too busy on other Forums to contribute to the debate here. If, indeed, they comprehend 'debate'.
2.The BASSA enthusiasts are too busy on other Forums to contribute to the debate here. If, indeed, they comprehend 'debate'.
Or a third reason, to coin a phrase, is "they can't handle the truth". For several weeks now the discussion on this forum has, in essence, predicted the outcome. Numerous posters have tried to persude/enlighten/convince the hardliners that they were following a path to oblivion. Coupled with the incomprehensibley immature tactics (red eyed WW, porn sites, Youtube, text messages etc) it was always going to be a struggle to get through to that sort of mindset.
When BASSA announced that they would put BA's final offer to the members I really thought that they'd managed to wriggle out of the ludicrous position they'd put themselves (and the seemingly unaware members) into. Just as a reminder, 6 months ago it was "work a little harder, no loss of pay/conditions and New Fleet". The Union managed to negotiate DOWN from that position to a pay cut + New Fleet + the impostion WOULD NOT BE REVERSED!!
The absolute defining moment for the death knell of BASSA was when WW announced that the offer was subject to conditions which BASSA/Unite had now broken and hence was off the table - game, set and match to WW - what the hell were the union thinking? To see McClunky an hour later on Sky News was laughable but also quite frightening. The fact that this man holds the powerful position he does is a threat to UK Plc as far as I'm concerned.
So back to my original point, the BASSA foamers wont appear on this forum because they know, deep down, that the majority on here were right all alongand they can't/don't want to face it. Much more comfortable to stay elsewhere with like minded individuals and hum along to Labe Siffre
Commiserations to the sane - I hope it works out for you.
RIP BASSA - reap what you sow.
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Control. If you read the 2 documents, one has the decisions made by BA, one by BASSA.
Thats about it.
They could have had:
a/ No paycut
b/ Promotion on existing fleets
c/ Negotiated monthly travel payment
d/ Crewmember back on the haredest routes - BA's choice.
But no, Comrade Len went behind the back of Unites Gen Sec and Willie, and announced strike dates, despite the agreed 3 week ballot extension.
Thats about it.
They could have had:
a/ No paycut
b/ Promotion on existing fleets
c/ Negotiated monthly travel payment
d/ Crewmember back on the haredest routes - BA's choice.
But no, Comrade Len went behind the back of Unites Gen Sec and Willie, and announced strike dates, despite the agreed 3 week ballot extension.
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@ Chuchinchow & Litebulbs; November 2009 mail exchange.
Hello,
I am following the thread on the pprune website about the dispute between you and BA. I am employed by another major European airline and what happens at BA will have a big impact on what our management will try to do with us.
Not being employed with BA, I and many other readers can of course not read your BASSA website.
As a result, we are unable to read your side of the story.
There are many questions being asked on PPRune to which I´d love to see the BASSA side of the answers, but the only people who seem to be BASSA suporters keep calling people names rather than answering and explaining.
I understand that you people are very busy, and that pprune is not your first priority, but out of solidarity with CC employed elsewhere, could you possible consider coming onto pprune one single time and explaining BASSA´s side clearly once and for all?
Thank you kindly,
XYZ
I am following the thread on the pprune website about the dispute between you and BA. I am employed by another major European airline and what happens at BA will have a big impact on what our management will try to do with us.
Not being employed with BA, I and many other readers can of course not read your BASSA website.
As a result, we are unable to read your side of the story.
There are many questions being asked on PPRune to which I´d love to see the BASSA side of the answers, but the only people who seem to be BASSA suporters keep calling people names rather than answering and explaining.
I understand that you people are very busy, and that pprune is not your first priority, but out of solidarity with CC employed elsewhere, could you possible consider coming onto pprune one single time and explaining BASSA´s side clearly once and for all?
Thank you kindly,
XYZ
Hi
Prune is a pilot’s website and as such anything you read on there is not reliable. The pilots have made their own deal with the BA management and are now concentrating on stopping the cabin crew from going on strike. If you want to know the details of the dispute email me or call "0000 000 0000" next week and I will try and answer your specific questions. Do not call this week as we are very busy sorting out ballot forms for people who have not received them.
Best wishes
ABC
BASSA at the UNITE Building
Prune is a pilot’s website and as such anything you read on there is not reliable. The pilots have made their own deal with the BA management and are now concentrating on stopping the cabin crew from going on strike. If you want to know the details of the dispute email me or call "0000 000 0000" next week and I will try and answer your specific questions. Do not call this week as we are very busy sorting out ballot forms for people who have not received them.
Best wishes
ABC
BASSA at the UNITE Building
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Wife ex BA says when she was on 747's the CSD was part of the crew.
Wife ex BA moved to BHX and went on strike, sat on picket line. Got intimidated when back at work and told to sign a no strike letter - BA in the end had to give her a written apology.
Wife says proposed strike is complete madness. The one good thing working for BA is the generous allowances. Wait until they go after them and they'll get 100% support, even from the Nigels.
When wife at BA - no real ££ probs, house, new car.
Wife now takes home £550 a month for a 4 day week - big debts.
To all non striking crew, yes it will be hard and will take a long time to heal the wounds. But it sounds as though you'll be in the majority. Think of your kids, mortgage etc.
There are bigger hurdles to come
Good luck
Wife ex BA moved to BHX and went on strike, sat on picket line. Got intimidated when back at work and told to sign a no strike letter - BA in the end had to give her a written apology.
Wife says proposed strike is complete madness. The one good thing working for BA is the generous allowances. Wait until they go after them and they'll get 100% support, even from the Nigels.
When wife at BA - no real ££ probs, house, new car.
Wife now takes home £550 a month for a 4 day week - big debts.
To all non striking crew, yes it will be hard and will take a long time to heal the wounds. But it sounds as though you'll be in the majority. Think of your kids, mortgage etc.
There are bigger hurdles to come
Good luck
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Questions that need answering!
The crew changes post Nov 16th deliver savings the company is looking for without ANY reduction of cabin crew pay or terms and conditions.
Why does Unite's include a 2.6% pay cut?
Why are they insisting on returning crewing levels back to pre 16th Nov levels, (there are a few exceptions).
They asked the High Court to examine this and they deemed the change as reasonable and did not breach our contracts. (In my experience flights with adjusted levels have generally run smoothly).
As well as a proposed pay cut for cabin crew, they have proposed other changes.
If we remain with the crewing levels as they are (post 16th Nov), I understand the savings my employer needs to make can be achieved without these reductions.
Why don't they just accept a simple solution.
Have Unite asked ALL it's membership which option they would prefer?
My questions in response Unite's formal offer (10th Mar), detailed on this forum.
They do not represent my employer on any other party.
Why does Unite's include a 2.6% pay cut?
Why are they insisting on returning crewing levels back to pre 16th Nov levels, (there are a few exceptions).
They asked the High Court to examine this and they deemed the change as reasonable and did not breach our contracts. (In my experience flights with adjusted levels have generally run smoothly).
As well as a proposed pay cut for cabin crew, they have proposed other changes.
If we remain with the crewing levels as they are (post 16th Nov), I understand the savings my employer needs to make can be achieved without these reductions.
Why don't they just accept a simple solution.
Have Unite asked ALL it's membership which option they would prefer?
My questions in response Unite's formal offer (10th Mar), detailed on this forum.
They do not represent my employer on any other party.
Last edited by Clarified; 13th Mar 2010 at 00:22.
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Flaps, forgive me but I do not understand what you are trying to say. Pprune is not the BASSA site, it allows all to contribute within the guidelines that you have set.
How do you try to effect a change? You get people talking. This site allows it, but some of the contributions deter it.
How do you try to effect a change? You get people talking. This site allows it, but some of the contributions deter it.
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Hello The Blu Riband
I have no details of any recent offers to Unite. My reference is to the well documented fact (see many previous posts) that my pay and T & C's are not changing under my company's changes post Nov 16th.
EG Painless, win-win, helps out the business, keeps our pay intact, reasonable, fair.
I will edit my previous post as I can see why you asked the question!!
My response to previous question, not representative of my employer or any other party.
EG Painless, win-win, helps out the business, keeps our pay intact, reasonable, fair.
I will edit my previous post as I can see why you asked the question!!
My response to previous question, not representative of my employer or any other party.
Last edited by Clarified; 12th Mar 2010 at 18:39.
Ut Sementem Feeceris
@ Pinkeroo
Hmm..... plausable, but
1. Does GB want to be seen to be close/cosy with a 1970's dinasoar militant union character? Wouldn't it open up the potential for "Old Labour" / Union ownership connections?
2. Labour is green now (yeah right). How does another runway fit in with that? Also with the potential of a hung Parliament and the Cons/Libs against a 3rd strip it would be v difficult to get through. Also didn't they announced a £27 billion
high speed raillink yesterday from the Smoke to GLA/EDI. Sounds very reasonable and good value for money to me.... 
Boris could build his Thames airport for that amount.
Too risky for Labour to get involved. They'd rather see WW cull the loony lefty and allow a more moderate 21st century leader to run the countrys biggest Union. Can you imagine the damage McClunky will wreak if he's leader of Unite with all the job lossess/modernisation/taxation/hurt/pain/anger/frustration were all going to be subject to over the next few years thanks to GB's munificent leadership and spell as Chancellor?
How depressing.
A4
PS Sorry for the thread creep mods.
Hmm..... plausable, but
1. Does GB want to be seen to be close/cosy with a 1970's dinasoar militant union character? Wouldn't it open up the potential for "Old Labour" / Union ownership connections?
2. Labour is green now (yeah right). How does another runway fit in with that? Also with the potential of a hung Parliament and the Cons/Libs against a 3rd strip it would be v difficult to get through. Also didn't they announced a £27 billion
high speed raillink yesterday from the Smoke to GLA/EDI. Sounds very reasonable and good value for money to me.... Boris could build his Thames airport for that amount.Too risky for Labour to get involved. They'd rather see WW cull the loony lefty and allow a more moderate 21st century leader to run the countrys biggest Union. Can you imagine the damage McClunky will wreak if he's leader of Unite with all the job lossess/modernisation/taxation/hurt/pain/anger/frustration were all going to be subject to over the next few years thanks to GB's munificent leadership and spell as Chancellor?
How depressing.
A4
PS Sorry for the thread creep mods.
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Good luck.
Enjoy the Business Crew food in the dole queue.
Without doubt you will be the major cause of the downfall of one of the greatest airlines in the world. You dear dear precious things. Have a look around at the rest of the industry and you will see how pampered you are.
Face the facts that like it or not the world (and that includes you) demands cheap flights. If you don't offer them, other airlines will. The only way you can offer them is by becoming as efficient as your competitors.
BA is a lumbering ox in desperate need of modernisation and I think it will go against you all.
Be under no illusion, you do not have the support of the majority of the industry and certainly the public.
Don't bother to reply, as you can see, I post infrequently and so won't bother checking.
Enjoy the Business Crew food in the dole queue.
Without doubt you will be the major cause of the downfall of one of the greatest airlines in the world. You dear dear precious things. Have a look around at the rest of the industry and you will see how pampered you are.
Face the facts that like it or not the world (and that includes you) demands cheap flights. If you don't offer them, other airlines will. The only way you can offer them is by becoming as efficient as your competitors.
BA is a lumbering ox in desperate need of modernisation and I think it will go against you all.
Be under no illusion, you do not have the support of the majority of the industry and certainly the public.
Don't bother to reply, as you can see, I post infrequently and so won't bother checking.
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Clarified - the Wall Street Journal link a page or so ago has BA's latest offer (11 mar 10) on it. I think Blue Riband was suggesting you, or anybody else, post that in LaLaLand.
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Litebulbs, allow me to explain.
People send us things. A court judgment, a BA document, a BASSA document. Things they want to get out on the forum, but without having their username attached to it.
When we agree that it is something that needs posting, we post it.
The above communication is such a one. The reason I post it now, is to demonstrate to you and C, and others who may wonder, that BASSA has been pointedly asked to contribute here, but has apparently declined to do so.
I posted it to clarify that all sides of the argument have a voice here, but that not everybody avails themselves of that voice.
It has been said many times here, but this forum is run by CC for CC.
Everybody else and their opinions is/are secondary here.
BASSA members are CC and thus more than welcome here.
In the past, right now, and in the future.
People send us things. A court judgment, a BA document, a BASSA document. Things they want to get out on the forum, but without having their username attached to it.
When we agree that it is something that needs posting, we post it.
The above communication is such a one. The reason I post it now, is to demonstrate to you and C, and others who may wonder, that BASSA has been pointedly asked to contribute here, but has apparently declined to do so.
I posted it to clarify that all sides of the argument have a voice here, but that not everybody avails themselves of that voice.
It has been said many times here, but this forum is run by CC for CC.
Everybody else and their opinions is/are secondary here.
BASSA members are CC and thus more than welcome here.
In the past, right now, and in the future.
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Originally Posted by The Blue Riband
Assurance for non striking crew
What incentives and / or guarantees might Willie offer to those crew who come into work?
What incentives and / or guarantees might Willie offer to those crew who come into work?
2. A salary.
3. A llowances.
The option being what? Bribes?
[apologies, Flaps40 - just saw your last post]
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Flaps,
Completely accepted.
My comments were not directed in any way at Pprune or its moderators and I am not talking about this entity called BASSA. I am talking about crew like MissM and Lurker.
Completely accepted.
My comments were not directed in any way at Pprune or its moderators and I am not talking about this entity called BASSA. I am talking about crew like MissM and Lurker.