British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: UK
Age: 69
Posts: 475
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not so sure an airline can remove staff travel privileges from a striker as long as the industrial action is legal.
One strike in a different company resulted in the airline giving everybody who went to work a free flight to a destination of their choice as a thank you.
The union waited for some of the tickets to have been used and then challenged this in court claiming "discrimination". The court decided in favour of the union and all strikers had to be given the same, a free flight.
One strike in a different company resulted in the airline giving everybody who went to work a free flight to a destination of their choice as a thank you.
The union waited for some of the tickets to have been used and then challenged this in court claiming "discrimination". The court decided in favour of the union and all strikers had to be given the same, a free flight.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Heathrow
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am worried about the crew who does turn up for work and supports BA. BA is after CC terms and conditions. If a strike provides them with the excuse to scrap them, it is my opinion it will make no difference between striking and non-striking CC, all T&Cs will be affected. They will have the CC recognised representatives to blame.
Good luck to all involved. Hope it can be avoided.
Good luck to all involved. Hope it can be avoided.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: London
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Safety Concern's Staff travel for strikers
Safety Concerns:
That's an interesting point. However, it's been noted on this forum several times previously that ballots have been sent to illegible voters yet again so with the precedent set back in December that this rendered the whole ballot invalid, I really don't think it's a safe thing to bet your staff travel on the fact that this strike wouldn't be contested as illegal if argued later. I'm no expert in these matters but those are just my thoughts on it. I'd be happy to stand corrected but I do think it is a very risky move to jeopardise staff travel if you value it, on the possibility of it being reinstated later.
I think people are holding to that belief because that's what's happened in the past but in the past, management didn't take on the union either...
That's an interesting point. However, it's been noted on this forum several times previously that ballots have been sent to illegible voters yet again so with the precedent set back in December that this rendered the whole ballot invalid, I really don't think it's a safe thing to bet your staff travel on the fact that this strike wouldn't be contested as illegal if argued later. I'm no expert in these matters but those are just my thoughts on it. I'd be happy to stand corrected but I do think it is a very risky move to jeopardise staff travel if you value it, on the possibility of it being reinstated later.
I think people are holding to that belief because that's what's happened in the past but in the past, management didn't take on the union either...
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Litebulbs
Re your post 2703 "So how do you alay those fears?".
Do I really have to go over this again?
Months and months worth of ESS messages, webchats, floor plate briefings, letters all say the same thing.
New fleet will only grow as existing fleets shrink through natural wastage or new routes start.
Existing crew stay on current terms and conditions.
Nobody will be forced to go to New Fleet
Fixed monthly payment to alay fears best route will be poached by New Fleet.
A,B,C formula to transfer work, also to alay fears best routes will be poached.
There will still be promotion within existing fleets.
So, Litebulbs, THAT is what I direct crew to to alay their fears. And do you know what? I still get crew say, "Oh I didn't realise that."
From which I conclude, that the crew member that said to me "Oh, I just delete all the stuff I get from the Company", is probably not the only one.
Re your post 2703 "So how do you alay those fears?".
Do I really have to go over this again?
Months and months worth of ESS messages, webchats, floor plate briefings, letters all say the same thing.
New fleet will only grow as existing fleets shrink through natural wastage or new routes start.
Existing crew stay on current terms and conditions.
Nobody will be forced to go to New Fleet
Fixed monthly payment to alay fears best route will be poached by New Fleet.
A,B,C formula to transfer work, also to alay fears best routes will be poached.
There will still be promotion within existing fleets.
So, Litebulbs, THAT is what I direct crew to to alay their fears. And do you know what? I still get crew say, "Oh I didn't realise that."
From which I conclude, that the crew member that said to me "Oh, I just delete all the stuff I get from the Company", is probably not the only one.
If you can't or don't wish to download through the link to BA's last offer (now withdrawn due to the strike announcement), her it is for all to read. Unbelievable that Unite /BASSA would turn this down. Absolutely crazy. The following would have been very easy for BA cabin crew to take on. BA even offered pay rises in the coming financial years (para 5) with continuation of incremental rises, and bonuses commensurate with company future performance (para 7). But no, the union belligerents apparently know better! 
Well done the self-seeking non-thinkers from Unite/BASSA! Talk about shooting yourselves in the feet, along with everybody else's' feet as well!
Well done the self-seeking non-thinkers from Unite/BASSA! Talk about shooting yourselves in the feet, along with everybody else's' feet as well!
The Way Forward - British Airways Formal Offer 11/03/2010
This formal offer made by British Airways to Unite the union has been produced under the auspices of the TUC. The document embodies a number of vitally important commitments, which apply to both parties.
1. Shared objective - Both the company and the union share the common goals of ensuring a strong and successful future for the company and the highest possible level of service to its customers, delivered by employees enjoying the best possible terms and conditions. The company fully recognises, values and respects the talent and experience of its current cabin crew.
2. Competitive cost base - Both parties acknowledge the need for change to establish a competitive cost base for the future of the company to be secured. It is also acknowledged that both the extent and nature of the change within the company has given all parties a number of concerns that need to be addressed.
3. Working together - In this offer the union and the company commit to work together to allay these concerns and to rebuild the trust damaged by the recent dispute, in order to lay the foundations for a new positive industrial relations environment to make the company a great place to work.
4. Productivity Target - Both parties agree to deliver the annual company target of £62.5 million per annum of permanent structural change.
5. Pay - The company has offered a 3 year pay deal effective from 1/2/2010 as follows.
• Year one 2010/11 current pay scales will be maintained.
• Year two 2011/12 the company will increase pay based on December 2010 RPI and capped at 4%.
• Year three 2012/13 the company will increase pay based on December 2011 RPI
and capped at 4%.
6. Incremental pay - Incremental increases will continue to be applied.
7. Bonus - The company will pay a non pensionable lump sum bonus worth 2% of basic pay for each of the next three years, paid in year three. This will be payable if the company achieves a 6% operating margin, customer satisfaction and punctuality targets in each year, increasing to a 4% lump sum bonus for a 10% operating margin.
8. Complements - The company will re-introduce a level of complement equivalent to a total of 184 full time crew into Euro Fleet and World Wide, the distribution of which will be determined by the company. This will be reviewed each season in line with commercial need. Any new recruitment to facilitate complement changes will be into the new fleet.
The level of flying remaining in Worldwide and Eurofleet wi ll be determined by the number of flights which can be covered with existing crew and complement levels.
To enable the reintroduction of complements, further savings have been jointly identified;
- Removal of early day report from World Wide
- Removal of telephone allowance from World Wide and Euro Fleet
- Removal of language allowance from all fleets
- Non flying variable pay maintained at current levels
- Crew meals aligned to world traveller specification
- Overseas meal allowances maintained at current levels
Complements remain non-contractual.
9. New Fleet - There will be a separate mixed flying fleet for new crew, with separate terms and conditions and bargaining rights for Unite. There will be a separate negotiating body for new fleet, which will not discuss the terms and conditions of
current crew.
10. Commitments for existing crew - Alongside the introduction of new fleet, the company has confirmed the following commitments to existing crew;
• Terms and Conditions for Current Crew - A fundamental principle of this offer is that crew will have a firm commitment from British Airways in respect to their terms of employment. Current crew can feel assured that their existing contractual terms will be maintained for the future unless amended through the agreed NSP negotiating procedures.
• Access to route network· It is the company's intention to ensure a fair and transparent distribution of routes to all fleets. Both parties have agreed to explore the feasibility of a new Monthly Duty Payment (MDP) to replace existing variable allowances. This new MDP will be the subject of negotiation between the parties and will include the principle of rewarding 'intensity of work'. If agreement is reached, its operation will form part of the TUC review (see paragraph 16 Assurances).
• Access to aircraft type· It is the company's intention to deploy new aircraft based on commercial need across existing and new fleets. New aircraft will be introduced on a fair and transparent basis across all the company's fleets. Existing crew terms, conditions and fleet agreements will apply when new aircraft are operated on existing fleets. As new aircraft are introduced across all of the company's fleets, crew will be trained in order to receive the necessary licenses as required by regulation.
• Career structure and opportunities for current crew· The career structure for current crew within current fleets will continue on the basis of existing practice, unless amended through the agreed NSP negotiating procedures. The company confirm that where there are opportunities available, existing crew will be promoted on existing terms and conditions on current fleets.
• Honouring current and future agreements· During these talks both parties have discussed current and future agreements. This document intends to reinforce both BA and Unite's commitment to honour and apply these agreements. Unite continue to be recognised for collective bargaining for current crew's terms and conditions on existing fleets. Both parties accept the importance of honouring agreements and are committed to treating each other with respect, in order to create a climate of good industrial relations. In particular, the implementation and operation of this offer will be reviewed - with the support of the TUC - after a period of six months.
• Ability to transfer fleet/base on current terms and conditions - As with the current process, there is no guarantee of achieving a transfer. However, both parties have committed to continue with the current practice of transfers at Heathrow between Eurofleet and Worldwide, and to find a mechanism to aid limited transfers from Gatwick under current terms and conditions.
• Part·time - The company will continue to honour commitments to make part-time offers to all crew on existing lists by March 2011. The offer will be on existing fleets, terms and conditions.
11. Future Industrial Relations - Following the conclusion of this offer both parties are committed to entering into a process of working together constructively with a mutually agreed independent third party.
12. IR Framework - Both parties commit to establishing a new industrial relations framework for Cabin Crew within eight weeks of concluding this offer. If agreement isn't reached, the ACAS code of practice will be implemented
13. Disruption Agreement - In order to minimise the impact of disruption to our customers and our crew, the following points will remain, or be incorporated into the Disruption Agreement:
• The definition of disruption remains unchanged.
• The double night will be removed for Worldwide diverted inbound services to anywhere in the UK and Europe, and a minimum of 15 hours off-duty will be achieved if the aircraft is unable to continue to its original destination.
• When disruption takes place the IFCE management team will advise Duty representatives and crew colleagues when and how the disruption agreement has been applied. A review will take place of any disruption at the next joint meeting
14. Changes to BA Forum and corporate policies - Potential changes to corporate policies that apply to all colleagues across the company and covered at the BA Forum and EPC have been subject to discussion. Both parties commit to concluding these discussions within one month of completing this offer.
15. Status of the offer - This offer maintains the contractual rights of cabin crew at their current level. The offer does not reduce or extend them from where they are today.
16. Assurances - In the event that either party has concerns about the interpretation, implementation and/ or operation of this offer, and in the event of any such matters not being able to be resolved after exhausting procedures, the TUC will be asked to convene further discussions between the parties with the remit of assisting on unresolved points. Such meetings may be called by either party and will be convened within seven days.
This formal offer made by British Airways to Unite the union has been produced under the auspices of the TUC. The document embodies a number of vitally important commitments, which apply to both parties.
1. Shared objective - Both the company and the union share the common goals of ensuring a strong and successful future for the company and the highest possible level of service to its customers, delivered by employees enjoying the best possible terms and conditions. The company fully recognises, values and respects the talent and experience of its current cabin crew.
2. Competitive cost base - Both parties acknowledge the need for change to establish a competitive cost base for the future of the company to be secured. It is also acknowledged that both the extent and nature of the change within the company has given all parties a number of concerns that need to be addressed.
3. Working together - In this offer the union and the company commit to work together to allay these concerns and to rebuild the trust damaged by the recent dispute, in order to lay the foundations for a new positive industrial relations environment to make the company a great place to work.
4. Productivity Target - Both parties agree to deliver the annual company target of £62.5 million per annum of permanent structural change.
5. Pay - The company has offered a 3 year pay deal effective from 1/2/2010 as follows.
• Year one 2010/11 current pay scales will be maintained.
• Year two 2011/12 the company will increase pay based on December 2010 RPI and capped at 4%.
• Year three 2012/13 the company will increase pay based on December 2011 RPI
and capped at 4%.
6. Incremental pay - Incremental increases will continue to be applied.
7. Bonus - The company will pay a non pensionable lump sum bonus worth 2% of basic pay for each of the next three years, paid in year three. This will be payable if the company achieves a 6% operating margin, customer satisfaction and punctuality targets in each year, increasing to a 4% lump sum bonus for a 10% operating margin.
8. Complements - The company will re-introduce a level of complement equivalent to a total of 184 full time crew into Euro Fleet and World Wide, the distribution of which will be determined by the company. This will be reviewed each season in line with commercial need. Any new recruitment to facilitate complement changes will be into the new fleet.
The level of flying remaining in Worldwide and Eurofleet wi ll be determined by the number of flights which can be covered with existing crew and complement levels.
To enable the reintroduction of complements, further savings have been jointly identified;
- Removal of early day report from World Wide
- Removal of telephone allowance from World Wide and Euro Fleet
- Removal of language allowance from all fleets
- Non flying variable pay maintained at current levels
- Crew meals aligned to world traveller specification
- Overseas meal allowances maintained at current levels
Complements remain non-contractual.
9. New Fleet - There will be a separate mixed flying fleet for new crew, with separate terms and conditions and bargaining rights for Unite. There will be a separate negotiating body for new fleet, which will not discuss the terms and conditions of
current crew.
10. Commitments for existing crew - Alongside the introduction of new fleet, the company has confirmed the following commitments to existing crew;
• Terms and Conditions for Current Crew - A fundamental principle of this offer is that crew will have a firm commitment from British Airways in respect to their terms of employment. Current crew can feel assured that their existing contractual terms will be maintained for the future unless amended through the agreed NSP negotiating procedures.
• Access to route network· It is the company's intention to ensure a fair and transparent distribution of routes to all fleets. Both parties have agreed to explore the feasibility of a new Monthly Duty Payment (MDP) to replace existing variable allowances. This new MDP will be the subject of negotiation between the parties and will include the principle of rewarding 'intensity of work'. If agreement is reached, its operation will form part of the TUC review (see paragraph 16 Assurances).
• Access to aircraft type· It is the company's intention to deploy new aircraft based on commercial need across existing and new fleets. New aircraft will be introduced on a fair and transparent basis across all the company's fleets. Existing crew terms, conditions and fleet agreements will apply when new aircraft are operated on existing fleets. As new aircraft are introduced across all of the company's fleets, crew will be trained in order to receive the necessary licenses as required by regulation.
• Career structure and opportunities for current crew· The career structure for current crew within current fleets will continue on the basis of existing practice, unless amended through the agreed NSP negotiating procedures. The company confirm that where there are opportunities available, existing crew will be promoted on existing terms and conditions on current fleets.
• Honouring current and future agreements· During these talks both parties have discussed current and future agreements. This document intends to reinforce both BA and Unite's commitment to honour and apply these agreements. Unite continue to be recognised for collective bargaining for current crew's terms and conditions on existing fleets. Both parties accept the importance of honouring agreements and are committed to treating each other with respect, in order to create a climate of good industrial relations. In particular, the implementation and operation of this offer will be reviewed - with the support of the TUC - after a period of six months.
• Ability to transfer fleet/base on current terms and conditions - As with the current process, there is no guarantee of achieving a transfer. However, both parties have committed to continue with the current practice of transfers at Heathrow between Eurofleet and Worldwide, and to find a mechanism to aid limited transfers from Gatwick under current terms and conditions.
• Part·time - The company will continue to honour commitments to make part-time offers to all crew on existing lists by March 2011. The offer will be on existing fleets, terms and conditions.
11. Future Industrial Relations - Following the conclusion of this offer both parties are committed to entering into a process of working together constructively with a mutually agreed independent third party.
12. IR Framework - Both parties commit to establishing a new industrial relations framework for Cabin Crew within eight weeks of concluding this offer. If agreement isn't reached, the ACAS code of practice will be implemented
13. Disruption Agreement - In order to minimise the impact of disruption to our customers and our crew, the following points will remain, or be incorporated into the Disruption Agreement:
• The definition of disruption remains unchanged.
• The double night will be removed for Worldwide diverted inbound services to anywhere in the UK and Europe, and a minimum of 15 hours off-duty will be achieved if the aircraft is unable to continue to its original destination.
• When disruption takes place the IFCE management team will advise Duty representatives and crew colleagues when and how the disruption agreement has been applied. A review will take place of any disruption at the next joint meeting
14. Changes to BA Forum and corporate policies - Potential changes to corporate policies that apply to all colleagues across the company and covered at the BA Forum and EPC have been subject to discussion. Both parties commit to concluding these discussions within one month of completing this offer.
15. Status of the offer - This offer maintains the contractual rights of cabin crew at their current level. The offer does not reduce or extend them from where they are today.
16. Assurances - In the event that either party has concerns about the interpretation, implementation and/ or operation of this offer, and in the event of any such matters not being able to be resolved after exhausting procedures, the TUC will be asked to convene further discussions between the parties with the remit of assisting on unresolved points. Such meetings may be called by either party and will be convened within seven days.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Island of Aphrodite
Age: 75
Posts: 530
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One Crew
From Mr Francis's letter
Maybe something good will come out of this and that after it is all over this concept will remain the norm and a crew will leave base as a crew with one boss, the Captain, and remain together until they return to base. This will go a long way to getting away from the Them and Us mentality put out by CC union reps and trainers for years.
BD
One flying team: We have arranged for you to report with your captain and
first officers and to stay with them for the whole trip
first officers and to stay with them for the whole trip
BD
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hypocrisy on all sides
I've formerly posted pretty much in support of the CC, but the total amount of hypocrisy on all sides now makes me just support those who wish to continue in employment. I'd love to hear what long-time Aer Lingus employees think though. I have to admit I trust WW as far as Gordon Brown, and similarly I've about as much time for Simpson & McCLusky as for Ed Balls and "Lord" Mandelson. It's all politics in the end, and the best result now can be the polls turning towards the Blue party.
Otherwise,good luck to all involved; bmi personnel must be rubbing their hands!
Otherwise,good luck to all involved; bmi personnel must be rubbing their hands!
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: EARTH
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If I were BA BASSA crew I would ask for a 'vote of no confidence' in the current union representation.
What union uses their last resort action i.e. a strike, when they were given an extension to all the dates, including the deadline by which they had to call a strike?
The above proposal as shown in deeceethree's posting should have gone out to the BASSA's membership for their consideration.
But NO instead they call for 7 days of strikes, and the very fair offer is now removed as it had a no strike clause.
What do you think Aer Lingus and BMI crew think of this deal!
BA's crew will now have included in their cost savings, the value of the cost of the strike, and also the chance that Mr Walsh may issue new contracts to all crew at 90 days notice.
What union uses their last resort action i.e. a strike, when they were given an extension to all the dates, including the deadline by which they had to call a strike?
The above proposal as shown in deeceethree's posting should have gone out to the BASSA's membership for their consideration.
But NO instead they call for 7 days of strikes, and the very fair offer is now removed as it had a no strike clause.
What do you think Aer Lingus and BMI crew think of this deal!
BA's crew will now have included in their cost savings, the value of the cost of the strike, and also the chance that Mr Walsh may issue new contracts to all crew at 90 days notice.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not so sure an airline can remove staff travel privileges from a striker as long as the industrial action is legal.
You will lose staff travel. If you miss any duty on your roster during the
strike, you will be banned from using staff travel permanently. This ban
covers you and all your nominees and you will not be eligible to be a
nominee on other colleagues’ staff travel. Staff travel is a
non-contractual benefit that the company is legally entitled to withdraw
from you.
strike, you will be banned from using staff travel permanently. This ban
covers you and all your nominees and you will not be eligible to be a
nominee on other colleagues’ staff travel. Staff travel is a
non-contractual benefit that the company is legally entitled to withdraw
from you.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cyprus
Age: 76
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
4468
You confirmed what I thought was the legal position re official strikes. ie the company has to wait 90 days to employ replacement workers, outside the company.
BA will be a very different animal at the end of this period.
I predict that all shorthaul night stops will go, (each one must cost the company at least £1000).
The pension scheme will be closed to all.
Longhaul flight frequencies will have been reduced, & given to code share partners with only scheme rest abroad.
Other workers in Unite will be unhappy, leading to further problems.
I note that only WW is putting his head above the parapet, interesting?
Lets hope sense prevails.
You confirmed what I thought was the legal position re official strikes. ie the company has to wait 90 days to employ replacement workers, outside the company.
BA will be a very different animal at the end of this period.
I predict that all shorthaul night stops will go, (each one must cost the company at least £1000).
The pension scheme will be closed to all.
Longhaul flight frequencies will have been reduced, & given to code share partners with only scheme rest abroad.
Other workers in Unite will be unhappy, leading to further problems.
I note that only WW is putting his head above the parapet, interesting?
Lets hope sense prevails.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: london
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Willie Walsh announced on e-mail now that strike dates are announced the company is losing a fortune as he has offered all passengers a full refund. Costs being added to cabin crew savings target. BASSA have a lot to answer for. The deal BA proposed was more than fair - in fact better than BASSA's offer for the majority of crew. Any future offers will pale in comparison.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Where its at
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You will not be paid for absence from work. If you call in sick or are
absent we will assume you are taking industrial action.
absent we will assume you are taking industrial action.
They come into work because of financial pressures and not wanting to be blacklisted?
Very safe..
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Any legal comeback against Red Len?
Who decided to announce the strike dates, was Len working alone on this for his own agenda, or did he consult? Could members sue the union for not allowing them to see the offer that had been put on the table before going ahead with strike dates? It seem incredible that, in this current recession, such a forward looking deal was offered by the company. I'm sure most crews would have been very happy to accept. Now they are faced with a strike, which I feel most of us don't want. What's the next move,? Well done Unite, you played a blinder there, scuppering a great deal for your members 
BASSA's latest nonsense
BASSA's latest 'communication' is a an exercise in outright fibbing! But that is to be expected.
Saddened? You have got to be kidding! BASSA members might still want to ask which, if any, of their reps are actually going to strike. Go on, ask them!
"We have committed all of our time, energy and ability to reach an agreement ...." That is patently untrue when you consider how long this union-led fiasco has gone on. But wait, it gets better.
BA did give Unite a formal offer by close of play (which is posted above by deeceethree) and Unite asked if the they could extend the strike ballot deadline so as to conduct a consultative ballot about BA's latest proposal. BA agreed, giving Unite 3 weeks to do so, as long as no strike dates were announced! Fact! This latest BASSA rubbish above is an out and out lie.
Len McCluskey was aware that he had three weeks extra time, with no jeopardy to the last existing strike ballot, with BA's say-so to consult BASSA members about whether they wanted to accept BA's latest offer, but it was conditional on no strike dates being announced. So, imagine BA's surprise when the Unite/BASSA circus announces strike dates. It would appear that this was done at the behest of BASSA- they are utterly out of ideas now and didn't want BASSA members seeing the BA offer!
Absolute tripe! As already stated, the offer was only ever available as long as there were no strike date announcements during the consultative ballot process. You, the BASSA members, were not going to be given a say-so in this because BASSA were afraid you might accept! BASSA are severely twisting the truth here - no company would ever allow you to announce strike dates and have a 3-week consultation. Don't be daft!
Yes, BASSA were seriously worried that you might be "accepting every single point contained within the offer". Massively worried! BASSA attempts to persuade you to keep referring to to their "detailed work and words" (I have read that entire document and it's arrogance beggars belief!)but still didn't provide you with, or allow you time to consider, BA's last offer - which Unite/BASSA had in their sticky mitts when they wrote this nonsense. Whose sincerity needs judging now? Have BASSA given you sight of BA's offer yet? No, you had to read it here on PPRuNE or elsewhere on a news website.
Oh no, you were never going to be given a choice. You still haven't been given one!
Independent evaluation? BASSA has never been interested in anyone's independent evaluation of anything before. Why now suddenly? Because it isn't about a so-called "£10 million", its about controlling BA management of cabin crew, and keeping reps and senior cabin crew in cushy numbers. Read the last Unite/BASSA proposal yourselves - it is riddled with meddling in BA's business affairs.
And if any of you believe that it isn't about the 'survival of the airline’, you deserve what is surely coming.
A pathetic attempt to sound surprised that BA withdrew it's offer. Unite and BASSA knew, unequivocally, that it would be withdrawn the minute strike dates were announced.
No, BASSA members, it was imperative that you never got sight of BA's offer in time, because that would have signalled the beginning of the end for the pampered few at the top of your tree. That lot don't care if it brings down the company. And they certainly don't give a monkey's cuss for you lot swimming in the cess pool now. It is too late that many of you are having a dawning realisation of having been played like a fiddle.
Thanks a bunch for screwing it for all BA employees.
Strike Statement Unite Cabin Crew 12 March 2010
Today at 11am GMT, our union Unite have announced a series of strike dates for British Airways Unite cabin crew.
We are of course saddened to have to announce this action. We wished that we could have reached agreement to prevent this but at this point – it simply has not been possible.
Today at 11am GMT, our union Unite have announced a series of strike dates for British Airways Unite cabin crew.
We are of course saddened to have to announce this action. We wished that we could have reached agreement to prevent this but at this point – it simply has not been possible.
Why has this happened?
We have committed all of our time, energy and ability to reach an agreement with British Airways to cover several areas. These include imposition, cost savings and also the introduction of a new mixed flying fleet. By the end of the extensive TUC talks and despite extending by a day, this was still not possible. On the last day we put forward a radical and comprehensive package. We have already published this document for your information.
British Airways rejected our formal offer. It therefore need no longer concern you or require your consideration any further. They simply will not accept it. End of discussion.
By the close of play on the last day of talks no formal offer by British Airways had been registered. Yesterday at the point where the industrial action ballot was being authorised by our General Secretaries, a British Airways offer was finally received. In recognition of this Lenny McCluskey, in conjunction with the General Secretaries, simultaneously authorised the ballot dates and a process to consult with you regarding the offer.
We have committed all of our time, energy and ability to reach an agreement with British Airways to cover several areas. These include imposition, cost savings and also the introduction of a new mixed flying fleet. By the end of the extensive TUC talks and despite extending by a day, this was still not possible. On the last day we put forward a radical and comprehensive package. We have already published this document for your information.
British Airways rejected our formal offer. It therefore need no longer concern you or require your consideration any further. They simply will not accept it. End of discussion.
By the close of play on the last day of talks no formal offer by British Airways had been registered. Yesterday at the point where the industrial action ballot was being authorised by our General Secretaries, a British Airways offer was finally received. In recognition of this Lenny McCluskey, in conjunction with the General Secretaries, simultaneously authorised the ballot dates and a process to consult with you regarding the offer.
BA did give Unite a formal offer by close of play (which is posted above by deeceethree) and Unite asked if the they could extend the strike ballot deadline so as to conduct a consultative ballot about BA's latest proposal. BA agreed, giving Unite 3 weeks to do so, as long as no strike dates were announced! Fact! This latest BASSA rubbish above is an out and out lie.
Len McCluskey was aware that he had three weeks extra time, with no jeopardy to the last existing strike ballot, with BA's say-so to consult BASSA members about whether they wanted to accept BA's latest offer, but it was conditional on no strike dates being announced. So, imagine BA's surprise when the Unite/BASSA circus announces strike dates. It would appear that this was done at the behest of BASSA- they are utterly out of ideas now and didn't want BASSA members seeing the BA offer!
In simple terms this meant although strike dates had been announced, a consultative ballot on whether you wished to accept this offer would also have also been carried out in the days leading up to the first day of dispute.
You, as our members, would have chosen if this was acceptable or not. If acceptable, the strike would have been cancelled. If unacceptable, the strike action would proceed.
You, as our members, would have chosen if this was acceptable or not. If acceptable, the strike would have been cancelled. If unacceptable, the strike action would proceed.
It is worth pointing out that you would have been accepting every single point contained within the offer. There would have been no further negotiation or changing of the words. Quite simply, that would have been the end of that! The cost savings alongwith new fleet would be introduced with immediate effect.
Although we have said the Unite proposal need no longer concern you, it does serve one purpose. It is worthwhile referring to it as a cross reference for you to see the detailed work and words we had provided to protect you. In comparison, when we are able to give you the details, you will note the sparse words and vague promises contained within the British Airways formal offer. You can then judge it’s sincerity.
Although we have said the Unite proposal need no longer concern you, it does serve one purpose. It is worthwhile referring to it as a cross reference for you to see the detailed work and words we had provided to protect you. In comparison, when we are able to give you the details, you will note the sparse words and vague promises contained within the British Airways formal offer. You can then judge it’s sincerity.
For the record your Union would not have recommended acceptance of this offer, but ultimately, that choice would have been yours.
Everybody now knows that British Airways is disputing around £10 million of our proposed savings. We resolutely stand behind these figures. We were happy to have any independent valuation that was necessary.
So lets forget the myth that this is around the so called ‘survival of the airline’, as it’s simply not true.
QUESTION: Why would we not recommend accepting the British Airways offer?
ANSWER: It would have been irresponsible of us to do so. With our hands on our heart we could not recommend any deal that we ultimately knew would bring about the end of a job we all love doing.
So lets forget the myth that this is around the so called ‘survival of the airline’, as it’s simply not true.
QUESTION: Why would we not recommend accepting the British Airways offer?
ANSWER: It would have been irresponsible of us to do so. With our hands on our heart we could not recommend any deal that we ultimately knew would bring about the end of a job we all love doing.
And if any of you believe that it isn't about the 'survival of the airline’, you deserve what is surely coming.
STOP PRESS…STOP PRESS…
STOP PRESS…STOP PRESS…
It would now appear through recent media announcements that Mr Walsh has now withdrawn his formal offer so we are now no longer even able to seek your opinion if you wished to proceed with the dispute or not, that option has gone. It would appear that they still remain a management regrettably intent on confrontation.
STOP PRESS…STOP PRESS…
It would now appear through recent media announcements that Mr Walsh has now withdrawn his formal offer so we are now no longer even able to seek your opinion if you wished to proceed with the dispute or not, that option has gone. It would appear that they still remain a management regrettably intent on confrontation.
No, BASSA members, it was imperative that you never got sight of BA's offer in time, because that would have signalled the beginning of the end for the pampered few at the top of your tree. That lot don't care if it brings down the company. And they certainly don't give a monkey's cuss for you lot swimming in the cess pool now. It is too late that many of you are having a dawning realisation of having been played like a fiddle.
Thanks a bunch for screwing it for all BA employees.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London
Age: 50
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ill judgement
bermudatriangle
"Midman,you state Club seats are being sold for peanuts.may i direct you to BA.com and sourse club class fares to new york or sydney.i do not think you will find any fares on sale for peanuts!!
lots of miss-information is circulating at the moment,i suggest factual information is much more enlightening as to the real situation."
Bermudatriangle, yes you are right, a lot of miss-information is circulating as well as ill made assumptions like yours!
the fact that you think just quoting BA.com gives a true picture of what is happening (or not happening) on flights/routes just show how superficial people's knowledge is. And this drives ill decisions
If you are really interested in knowing the facts than look at the data behind the monthly performances. There you will find yields as well as volume performance and even that it's at such high level that has to be taken with caution.
I suggest you look a bit more deeper before you make assumptions. Even a full flight doesn't mean lots of revenue but it definitely means lots of costs.
"Midman,you state Club seats are being sold for peanuts.may i direct you to BA.com and sourse club class fares to new york or sydney.i do not think you will find any fares on sale for peanuts!!
lots of miss-information is circulating at the moment,i suggest factual information is much more enlightening as to the real situation."
Bermudatriangle, yes you are right, a lot of miss-information is circulating as well as ill made assumptions like yours!
the fact that you think just quoting BA.com gives a true picture of what is happening (or not happening) on flights/routes just show how superficial people's knowledge is. And this drives ill decisions
If you are really interested in knowing the facts than look at the data behind the monthly performances. There you will find yields as well as volume performance and even that it's at such high level that has to be taken with caution.
I suggest you look a bit more deeper before you make assumptions. Even a full flight doesn't mean lots of revenue but it definitely means lots of costs.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Two areas of interest regarding BASSA/Unite's statements:
The first of amusement:
I truly chuckled when I read the above quotation. Of course they don't wish for their membership to consider their final offer. It was a cornucopia of self-serving rhetoric meant to strengthen the Union at the cost of their memberships well-being.
The second is one of logic. If BASSA is so concerned regarding their members getting a chance to have a voice regarding BA's final offer there is nothing restraining them from prepareing a survey of their membership. There are numerous ways this could be accomplished in a cost-effective and very swift manner.
If BASSA doesn't know how its membership would vote its because they are deliberately keeping their membership from having a voice.
The first of amusement:
British Airways rejected our formal offer. It therefore need no longer concern you or require your consideration any further. They simply will not accept it. End of discussion. (emphasis added)
The second is one of logic. If BASSA is so concerned regarding their members getting a chance to have a voice regarding BA's final offer there is nothing restraining them from prepareing a survey of their membership. There are numerous ways this could be accomplished in a cost-effective and very swift manner.
If BASSA doesn't know how its membership would vote its because they are deliberately keeping their membership from having a voice.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: here, there & everywhere
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What about the Yes voters downroute during IA?
I think this has been mentioned sometime in the past many posts and pages ago, but what happens with the the yes voters who will be downroute during the days of strike action? Are they compelled to work or can they choose to remain in the hotel at the destination they're at? I would assume if they did this, then they would be liable for hotel costs and travel costs returning to the UK?
With this in mind, if the yes voters will only strike for flights from UK bases, the strike dates that have been announced may work out conveniently for many yes voters who will not be affected as they won't be reporting for duty during these days. Who decides the strike dates? Maybe I am a little cynical!
With this in mind, if the yes voters will only strike for flights from UK bases, the strike dates that have been announced may work out conveniently for many yes voters who will not be affected as they won't be reporting for duty during these days. Who decides the strike dates? Maybe I am a little cynical!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Staff travel - make no mistake!
I am not so sure an airline can remove staff travel privileges from a striker as long as the industrial action is legal.
It does not matter a jot whether the strike is deemed legal or otherwise as far as staff travel is concerned. Staff travel has already been taken away from thousands of BA pensioners who retired in the knowledge that their ST was for the rest of their life. Last year that deal was rescinded, and the period of eligibility shortened to become equal to total length of service.
Some retirees banded together and took very expensive legal advice on the issue. Result: the removal of ST and changes to some of the conditions remain 100% under BA's control.
To be fair, some of the changes have been beneficial, like the opportunity to buy standby for Club, but the fact remains BA have a precedent of successfully remove the benefit.
So, don't be fooled. ST can go, and will go.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: London, England
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well in the CRC yesterday some of the BASSA dinosaurs were demanding that Unite coordinate a walk out of BA groundstaff, etc... in support of the cabin crew. How deluded can you get?! Try asking a loader if they'll be supporting the 60k pa CSDs!!!