British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
Staff Travel at BA has never been contractual (at least not for the coal-face workers 
) - it is a perk. BA can stop it for anyone at any time! To remove it from the strikers is a valid form of punishment.
That would be considered secondary action, which is illegal. Nevertheless, Unite are trying to do something similar right now with the baggage loaders. BA polled the baggage handlers on some working practises, and Unite have suddenly taken offence and are threatening to ballot them for industrial action. It sure looks like a thinly disguised attempt at secondary action.
Good luck to them - Unite's record in the courts recently has been pathetically dismal.
) - it is a perk. BA can stop it for anyone at any time! To remove it from the strikers is a valid form of punishment.
Well in the CRC yesterday some of the BASSA dinosaurs were demanding that Unite coordinate a walk out of BA groundstaff, etc... in support of the cabin crew.
Good luck to them - Unite's record in the courts recently has been pathetically dismal.
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I predict that all shorthaul night stops will go, (each one must cost the company at least £1000).
Firstly, there would be insufficient parking space for all the aircraft at LHR/LGW/LCY etc.
Secondly, deadheading out for the early morning departures from outstations would cost far, far more than Walnut's estimated nightstop costs of £1,000.
No requirement to dead-head, surely? Fly an early aircraft out with fare-paying pax!
Granted, LHR parking and available slots would be an issue, but it might be time to consider 'parking' more aircraft at other UK airports, perhaps.
Granted, LHR parking and available slots would be an issue, but it might be time to consider 'parking' more aircraft at other UK airports, perhaps.
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As a BA employee as well as a member of Unite I am very saddened by all of this.
Similarly to thousands of other people I do not like change. Yet change is part of life... I continue being amazed by the sense of isolation I get from reading some of the crew postings on this forum. I believe most people really feel they are being asked unreasonable sacrifices. Maybe they are. They do not appear to talk or believe to what other BA employee's say. I agree we cannot tell what it is like to be a cabin crew, if we are not. But we can definitely understand the concerns about change. Because we have gone through change. I am lucky enough to have only been through the last reorg, as I am a relatively new employee (although 6 years would make me a senior employee in my previous company
).
Well for those who might be interested: hundreds of people had to reapply for their previous jobs, although their jobs in reality did not exist any more. We had to reapply because our jobs had changed extensively, most of the times involving more responsibilities and requiring more hard work. It was out of nobody's fault... at the end of the day if half the managers left the company someone had to pick up what they left behind, and it makes sense for those people not to be all managers.
I keep on been told as a joke (I hope) that people in WTS spend all day having coffee, not doing much. I have been told that by a BASSA rep, who knows me and knows that I work an average of 10 hours day. Nothing special, nothing more than many other employees in BA, nothing to go on about. This is the situation, work needs to be done and we just need to get on and do it. People have been "promoted" as in they have been given more responsibilities such as people management, but no pay rise, but then it would have been inappropriate to expect one, as we knew why the need for change.
So the extra hours we put in are not been claimed in overtime (which we are not entitled to any way), nor have we gone on with the union about our situation. The union reps did their job in trying to avoid compulsory redundancies (which they did) and to ensure the allocation of roles was as fair as it could be. To BA's credit everybody has been working really hard to cut costs, from the directors who had to design a new organizations within a time frame of weeks, to the staff who had to go through the process whilst still carrying on with their jobs.
And for the record: no pay rise for increased responsibilities, nor for increased workload. No yearly pay rise. No yearly VAT equivalent increase.
I can sympathise with the CSD for being upset of having to go back to service, or with cabin crew for thinking they are the only ones who have been asked for sacrifices, whilst still believing the rest of the company is spending hours on tea breaks and la la la time.
I CANNOT accept what Len said yesterday whilst announcing the strike dates. That crew was being asked to make more sacrifices than other departments. because his duty is TO KNOW what has happened to all of his other members. Unite is taking my money at the end of the month as happily as the money from the airport staff or the cabin crew and should at least acknowledge the sacrifices the other Unite members have made.
I waited to see what my union decided to do and I am sad it has decided that it is ok to jeopardise every other member to engage in a power struggle with Willie Walsh (and the Board). This is why I am making sure I write this on here as well as on the letter I am sending to resign from the union.
Good luck to everybody. A strike is not good for those who believe in why they are doing it, and those who don't. The only possible outcome is that someone is going to pay for it, in addition to our customers who at least have been given the offer to cancel and not loose their money.
I don't even pretend to understand the issues being discussed but I can only
work as hard as I can to do my bit, including volunteering to either help crew that are going to work or helping customers.
Similarly to thousands of other people I do not like change. Yet change is part of life... I continue being amazed by the sense of isolation I get from reading some of the crew postings on this forum. I believe most people really feel they are being asked unreasonable sacrifices. Maybe they are. They do not appear to talk or believe to what other BA employee's say. I agree we cannot tell what it is like to be a cabin crew, if we are not. But we can definitely understand the concerns about change. Because we have gone through change. I am lucky enough to have only been through the last reorg, as I am a relatively new employee (although 6 years would make me a senior employee in my previous company
). Well for those who might be interested: hundreds of people had to reapply for their previous jobs, although their jobs in reality did not exist any more. We had to reapply because our jobs had changed extensively, most of the times involving more responsibilities and requiring more hard work. It was out of nobody's fault... at the end of the day if half the managers left the company someone had to pick up what they left behind, and it makes sense for those people not to be all managers.
I keep on been told as a joke (I hope) that people in WTS spend all day having coffee, not doing much. I have been told that by a BASSA rep, who knows me and knows that I work an average of 10 hours day. Nothing special, nothing more than many other employees in BA, nothing to go on about. This is the situation, work needs to be done and we just need to get on and do it. People have been "promoted" as in they have been given more responsibilities such as people management, but no pay rise, but then it would have been inappropriate to expect one, as we knew why the need for change.
So the extra hours we put in are not been claimed in overtime (which we are not entitled to any way), nor have we gone on with the union about our situation. The union reps did their job in trying to avoid compulsory redundancies (which they did) and to ensure the allocation of roles was as fair as it could be. To BA's credit everybody has been working really hard to cut costs, from the directors who had to design a new organizations within a time frame of weeks, to the staff who had to go through the process whilst still carrying on with their jobs.
And for the record: no pay rise for increased responsibilities, nor for increased workload. No yearly pay rise. No yearly VAT equivalent increase.
I can sympathise with the CSD for being upset of having to go back to service, or with cabin crew for thinking they are the only ones who have been asked for sacrifices, whilst still believing the rest of the company is spending hours on tea breaks and la la la time.
I CANNOT accept what Len said yesterday whilst announcing the strike dates. That crew was being asked to make more sacrifices than other departments. because his duty is TO KNOW what has happened to all of his other members. Unite is taking my money at the end of the month as happily as the money from the airport staff or the cabin crew and should at least acknowledge the sacrifices the other Unite members have made.
I waited to see what my union decided to do and I am sad it has decided that it is ok to jeopardise every other member to engage in a power struggle with Willie Walsh (and the Board). This is why I am making sure I write this on here as well as on the letter I am sending to resign from the union.
Good luck to everybody. A strike is not good for those who believe in why they are doing it, and those who don't. The only possible outcome is that someone is going to pay for it, in addition to our customers who at least have been given the offer to cancel and not loose their money.
I don't even pretend to understand the issues being discussed but I can only
work as hard as I can to do my bit, including volunteering to either help crew that are going to work or helping customers.
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Granted, LHR parking and available slots would be an issue, but it might be time to consider 'parking' more aircraft at other UK airports, perhaps.
Leave things as they are. After all, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
I can sympathise with the CSD for being upset of having to go back to service....
Thus incurring even more HOTAC costs for the crews needed to fly them out.
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Christmaslights,
I think you expressed the situation of many BA employees very well. BASSA has managed (at least up to recent days) to spin the situation as though the CC were the only ones asked to tighten belts or add to their responsibilities.
So many have gone before them - many CC realise that BA's offer is reasonable now that the industry has changed so much and competitors are not tied by the type of historical agreements in place in some areas of BA.
I wish the best to all those CC who will go to work and possibly save BA from following in the footsteps of JAL, SwissAir and others...
I think you expressed the situation of many BA employees very well. BASSA has managed (at least up to recent days) to spin the situation as though the CC were the only ones asked to tighten belts or add to their responsibilities.
So many have gone before them - many CC realise that BA's offer is reasonable now that the industry has changed so much and competitors are not tied by the type of historical agreements in place in some areas of BA.
I wish the best to all those CC who will go to work and possibly save BA from following in the footsteps of JAL, SwissAir and others...
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Surely
If no aircraft night stop away, the fleet(s) can be reduced?
Parking space is not an issue, and code shares will prevail?. For every 'Air National' parked at LHR overnight, 'Air National' can be at home base to cover the early LHR, while BA stop at home base. Revenue will still flow to the airlines.
Bored
Parking space is not an issue, and code shares will prevail?. For every 'Air National' parked at LHR overnight, 'Air National' can be at home base to cover the early LHR, while BA stop at home base. Revenue will still flow to the airlines.
Bored
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'Why? I have flown with many CSDs, long before the 'imposition' of 1 crew down, and they helped out with the service, no quibbles. Why would you sympathise with those CSDs who now find it 'difficult'? Some of us have had pay cuts and pay freezes, concurrently, in an effort to help the company out. Why should CSDs be a special case?'
I sympathise because no matter how good your conditions are or how little is asked of you to change, change is still a huge issue for some people. I can't judge how much more or little is being asked so I let other crew do the judging, I can only feel empathy for those who are being asked to undergo change now. Things as we know them are deemed to change and end, not only in BA but in life, and no union can change that. Uncertainty is a trait of modern society, and some people deal with it less easily than others.
You are right, some of us have had many changes, but it wasn't easy for everyone to understand it was needed and we were all in the same boat. I am silly enough to believe that if there is awareness that everybody is pulling together and making changes to help it might make it feel less unfair. Maybe not...
I sympathise because no matter how good your conditions are or how little is asked of you to change, change is still a huge issue for some people. I can't judge how much more or little is being asked so I let other crew do the judging, I can only feel empathy for those who are being asked to undergo change now. Things as we know them are deemed to change and end, not only in BA but in life, and no union can change that. Uncertainty is a trait of modern society, and some people deal with it less easily than others.
You are right, some of us have had many changes, but it wasn't easy for everyone to understand it was needed and we were all in the same boat. I am silly enough to believe that if there is awareness that everybody is pulling together and making changes to help it might make it feel less unfair. Maybe not...
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Not at all! Many crew live nearer to those very airports than they do to Heathrow
So now, in addition to all our other problems, Mr Bernoulli would have all SH crews (front office and CC) segregated by the proximity of their homes to one regional airport or another.
Commuters will love that.
I suppose Mr Bernoulli's next proposal will be the compulsory rehousing of crews from the London region to Aberdeen, or Belfast, for example.
And all this to save Walnut's estimated HOTAC costs of £1,000 per night per crew.
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It's amazing how many aircraft you can fit into a small space if you have to, this is Gander on 9/11.
Photos: - Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
Photos: - Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
In anticipation of events, I would like to congratulate the many BA cabin crew who will no doubt see sense and ignore this totally unjustified strike. Special praise must also be given to the hundreds of other BA employees who will go the extra mile to ensure that the company maintains a service.
To those that choose to back the strike action: you are living in a dreamworld. I hope that BA take the staff travel off you and, should the time come when you loose your job, your house and everything else, perhaps you will look back and realise what an idiot you have been. BA will be a better place without you. What chance your getting another job when you are known to be a trouble causing striker?
To those that choose to back the strike action: you are living in a dreamworld. I hope that BA take the staff travel off you and, should the time come when you loose your job, your house and everything else, perhaps you will look back and realise what an idiot you have been. BA will be a better place without you. What chance your getting another job when you are known to be a trouble causing striker?
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Yes voters down route
Presumeably any one who fails to report for their duty will be kicked out of the crew hotel with no where to go and no means of getting home unless they buy a full fare ticket on another carrier, which will be full, due to cancelled BA flights and so more expense to find a hotel for a few days whilst the mess that Unite have caused is sorted out. Any crew who have enough money to fund this then good luck, I know I don't.
Last edited by Middy; 13th Mar 2010 at 09:50. Reason: grammer
European and UK night stops.
In my previous airline (B.Cal) all our nightstops were split duty. This meant that you had most of day 1 off then operated to wherever, then had a minimum of 8 hours in the hotel and operated the first flight back in the morning and had the rest of the day off. I know it wouldn't apply to some destinations that are further away but it worked well and gave us all more hometime. Have flight time limitations changed to exclude this option?
In my previous airline (B.Cal) all our nightstops were split duty. This meant that you had most of day 1 off then operated to wherever, then had a minimum of 8 hours in the hotel and operated the first flight back in the morning and had the rest of the day off. I know it wouldn't apply to some destinations that are further away but it worked well and gave us all more hometime. Have flight time limitations changed to exclude this option?
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No, split duties are alive and well especially at Gatwick. Have been for many years now, sometimes with only 4 or 5 hours in a hotel but at least you get two fairly full days at home either side.
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Mr Bernouli
Regarding Short Haul Nights Stops and why BA do them
BA is predominantly a Long Haul airline. Short Haul exists in the main to feed passengers into its Long Haul route network. It therefore requires early departures out of Europe to feed these connections into the BA/One World network.
Easy Jet and Ryanair exist as No Frills Short Haul airlines and have no necessity to operate at the crack of dawn out of destinations that are not their bases. The customer can wait because they are not connecting.
So, it is quite simple why Short Haul can be seen on paper, to be considerably less cost effective than our Low Frills competitors. If BA were to deny themselves lucrative connecting passengers to the first wave of US departures from midday until 3pm, we would soon see why Short Haul crews night stop.
For what it's worth, most crew would appreciate not having to get up at 3.30am (UK-time) to compete with the resident state airline!
BA is predominantly a Long Haul airline. Short Haul exists in the main to feed passengers into its Long Haul route network. It therefore requires early departures out of Europe to feed these connections into the BA/One World network.
Easy Jet and Ryanair exist as No Frills Short Haul airlines and have no necessity to operate at the crack of dawn out of destinations that are not their bases. The customer can wait because they are not connecting.
So, it is quite simple why Short Haul can be seen on paper, to be considerably less cost effective than our Low Frills competitors. If BA were to deny themselves lucrative connecting passengers to the first wave of US departures from midday until 3pm, we would soon see why Short Haul crews night stop.
For what it's worth, most crew would appreciate not having to get up at 3.30am (UK-time) to compete with the resident state airline!
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Regarding Split duties.
3 sectors - Night Stop - 3 sectors = 2 days work
1 sector - Split duty - 1 sector = 2 days work
If BA can get 6 rooms for £25 per night and a minibus for £15 a time, which is the more effective use of resources (particularly generously paid pilots!)
3 sectors - Night Stop - 3 sectors = 2 days work
1 sector - Split duty - 1 sector = 2 days work
If BA can get 6 rooms for £25 per night and a minibus for £15 a time, which is the more effective use of resources (particularly generously paid pilots!)