British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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Whatsthisbuttondo:
Thousands of Cabin Crew may go on strike. From what I understand they are perfectly entitled to.
BA and other union members and supporters are also perfectly entitled to take appropriate measures to minimize the damage BASSA is trying to inflict upon their employer and co-workers.
If BASSA cannot negotiate on a reasonable and businesslike basis and produce savings needed from their unit to the company I totally expect a strike to take place and I further expect to see Mr. Walsh and the Board do everything in their power to minimize BASSA's future influence.
Right now I believe the more desperate party is BASSA. They need a way out of this hole they have dug themselves but what can they offer BA when they have over-reacted to a reasonable imposition.
The fact that BASSA has little or no support from other unions and divisions says much about how isolated their position truly is.
Thousands of Cabin Crew may go on strike. From what I understand they are perfectly entitled to.
BA and other union members and supporters are also perfectly entitled to take appropriate measures to minimize the damage BASSA is trying to inflict upon their employer and co-workers.
If BASSA cannot negotiate on a reasonable and businesslike basis and produce savings needed from their unit to the company I totally expect a strike to take place and I further expect to see Mr. Walsh and the Board do everything in their power to minimize BASSA's future influence.
Right now I believe the more desperate party is BASSA. They need a way out of this hole they have dug themselves but what can they offer BA when they have over-reacted to a reasonable imposition.
The fact that BASSA has little or no support from other unions and divisions says much about how isolated their position truly is.
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And now he has thousands, yes thousands of cabin crew voting to not turn up to work because they are so unhappy with their lot.
"Willie can't sack us" (He can, actually)
"Willie won't sack us" (Hmm, depends how much of a message HE wants to send. Sack now, pay £11k unfair dismissal in 3 years time)
"Willie can't remove my staff travel for life" (Really? 100% sure about that? Been tested in court has it?)
As Cabin Crew, we are classic "weak strikers". Lots of box-ticking and message-sending but quick to capitulate and come into work. Even with those "sending Willie a message" only 61% of CC actually voted to strike. EVERY SINGLE ONE I know who voted yes, also SIGNED UP TO WORK as the last strike neared. Says it all. Those who strike are really going out on a limb. You risk everything. I can't say how that'll work out for you but I'd be damn worried if I was going to walk (I'm not btw).
Now, I did the figures once before but with 12,000 crew and only 7500 definite "Yes-votes", that leaves....
4500 coming to work
1000 further "yes-vote" capitulations?
600 temp staff back on the books
1000 pilots
1000 groundstaff trained as CC
Ballpark figures (the capitulaters will be FAR higher, on that I'll bet my life) but we then have circa 8000 crew coming to work. That's 2/3rds of the normal workforce.
Willie then reduces crew to CAA legal minimums and reduces the usual requirement of 12,000 by at least 20%, so now only needs 9600 crew (of which he has 8000 already).
Cancel duplicate flights, amalgamate flights and pass some work on to Codeshare partners and you can see that it's already Game, Set and Match to Willie. The mandate was too weak, BA have too many strike-breakers.
It's over before it's even started.
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It's funny reading all the BA middle managers signing up pretending to be passengers and sending messages of support to WW.
Firstly, I'd like to thank all those putting both sides of the argument in such detail so I'm now, frankly, more informed than several of my BASSA friends about what this dispute and, in particular, the ballot for IA is about. The most common response I get from them is "But they want to drastically cut my pay and push me out when New Fleet comes in..."
I'm not BA crew, I'm not BA staff, but I am a BA frequent flyer. This board has been linked left, right, and centre on the internet - is it so incomprehensible that Joe Public might come here to read and also post support for BA? It's honestly a great deal tamer than much reaction on the newspaper articles/blogs that are allowing commenting, and the volume of that really makes me doubt that staff at WS have the time to sit and post all of it.
I'm booked on half a dozen flights with BA over the next few months -including March - that is my choice as I've personally always had good experiences flying with the airline. I'm going to continue flying with them. And given half a chance, I'd train as crew and break any strike with those staff that seem utterly fed up that every other part of the company took a hit in the economic climate but that CC are holding out for something that, in the eyes of many, just seems utterly unreasonable.
I left my job at a major airline a few years back and the career progression I chose means, in all likelihood, that next year I may be out of work. That was my choice to take that path, although I never saw this hellish economy coming - but I will work my backside off trying to make ends meet if things go pear-shaped. There are plenty in worse situations than I am, and the reason we're so motivated to comment is seeing the attitudes being expressed by some crew, which honestly does come across as selfish and greedy. The comment from one poster a few pages back regarding one who's attitude was "Don't care" about fellow colleagues rang true based on the responses I'm getting from my CC friends - well, this is a bitter pill to swallow for those of us who are customers and who put our hard earned money into tickets with BA regularly. Is it really beyond the realm of possibility that some of us are so frustrated with this that we just might express that here?
The other thing I have to say, and this probably means nothing in the greater scheme of things as it may not be reflected at all by others, but on waking up today and reading through all the usual social networking guff I'm on - several CC are posting statuses that they're very, very ill. I'm guessing that the people I used to work with might be starting to worry and are trying to get signed off work.
I've been lurking around pprune since '99ish and I can categorically state I'm not BA management, Willie Walsh, his dog, or anyone else to do with BA. There *are* pax here who are concerned and, whilst appreciating this is a CC subforum, really welcome the opportunity to share their views as well.
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Winstonsmith
Thanks for the explanation although it all still seems slighly tenuous to me.
Can't see a strike achieving anything but the prospect of one being to the detriment of everybody (and very short-lived)
Hope for a resolution soon.
Ted
Can't see a strike achieving anything but the prospect of one being to the detriment of everybody (and very short-lived)
Hope for a resolution soon.
Ted
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whatdoesthisbuttondo:
Interesting post. You say that one of the main reasons for crew unhappiness is the lack of negotiation. Do you think that this is the fault of BA then? That doesn't seem to be the opinion of an independent judge, in fact he specifically blamed the unions. The deal crew were being offered protected their lifestyles and pay to a large extent. The fact that self serving union reps have led so many hard working crew to the point of strike is a tradgedy.
I do think you are correct though-I am absolutely sure Mr Walsh is not very relaxed at the moment. However, I am equally sure the contingency plans that have been put in place will be extremely comprehensive. If you think any crew member will come out of this strike with a better deal than the one that was recently offered I think you will be sadly mistaken.
Interesting post. You say that one of the main reasons for crew unhappiness is the lack of negotiation. Do you think that this is the fault of BA then? That doesn't seem to be the opinion of an independent judge, in fact he specifically blamed the unions. The deal crew were being offered protected their lifestyles and pay to a large extent. The fact that self serving union reps have led so many hard working crew to the point of strike is a tradgedy.
I do think you are correct though-I am absolutely sure Mr Walsh is not very relaxed at the moment. However, I am equally sure the contingency plans that have been put in place will be extremely comprehensive. If you think any crew member will come out of this strike with a better deal than the one that was recently offered I think you will be sadly mistaken.
BA shares up today so the City is backing Willie.
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whatdoesthisbuttondo have you read the court hearing statement?
Look back a few pages and you will see the judges 3 main conclusions.
1.changes were not contractual
2. BA didnt have the ability to negotiate effectively with the union as BASSA and Amicus would not sit in the same room and were fighting amongst themselves.
3. Due to the dire financial state the company had no option but to impose as negotiations as effectively stopped and the changes were reasonable.
you said ''recent negotiations (or lack of) have been so unproductive that they now are left with the only option but to go on strike''
Its pretty to clear to the judge and infact everyone but an ardent BASSA fan that the unpoductive negotations were due to BASSA and Amicus infighting!!
So to argue crew have no option but to go on strike when the union is the main party to blame for lack of negotiation is not fair to be honest. Hence why you cannot blame management for the whole problem. They may be part of it but untill all BASSA member know the facts and can see their union is mainly to blame the reason many of them believe they are going on strike are redundant.
Of course we can blame the union and show part support for a management that is stuck between a rock and a hard place the facts are there for all those with open eyes to see. Again im not anti crew in any way I am anti union and think they have been mis represented.
Look back a few pages and you will see the judges 3 main conclusions.
1.changes were not contractual
2. BA didnt have the ability to negotiate effectively with the union as BASSA and Amicus would not sit in the same room and were fighting amongst themselves.
3. Due to the dire financial state the company had no option but to impose as negotiations as effectively stopped and the changes were reasonable.
you said ''recent negotiations (or lack of) have been so unproductive that they now are left with the only option but to go on strike''
Its pretty to clear to the judge and infact everyone but an ardent BASSA fan that the unpoductive negotations were due to BASSA and Amicus infighting!!
So to argue crew have no option but to go on strike when the union is the main party to blame for lack of negotiation is not fair to be honest. Hence why you cannot blame management for the whole problem. They may be part of it but untill all BASSA member know the facts and can see their union is mainly to blame the reason many of them believe they are going on strike are redundant.
Of course we can blame the union and show part support for a management that is stuck between a rock and a hard place the facts are there for all those with open eyes to see. Again im not anti crew in any way I am anti union and think they have been mis represented.
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Can anyone think of any instance where any company’s management has had so long to prepare for industrial action or had so much support from the public, other employees and indeed (even if by silence) support from other unions?
Are there any sensible comparisons? Is this actually the least supported strike? It’s got to be in the running from what I have seen!
Are there any sensible comparisons? Is this actually the least supported strike? It’s got to be in the running from what I have seen!
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It's amusing when reading other discussions forums - many members saying imposition should be removed and crew members put back BUT not any of them can suggest what they would be willing to give up instead.
Paul on LBC 97.3FM mentioned BASSA suggested savings worth hundreds of million pounds - it was worth some £53 million. Why is that so hard to understand?
Paul on LBC 97.3FM mentioned BASSA suggested savings worth hundreds of million pounds - it was worth some £53 million. Why is that so hard to understand?
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More damage to BA in more flavours: -
http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/ne...n-strike-days/
http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/ne...n-strike-days/
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More damage to BA in more flavours: -
http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/ne...n-strike-days/
http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/ne...n-strike-days/
At least it lives up to the name Speedy Boarding - if you're not speedy you get flattened
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I suspect it will take a little more than 'speedy boarding' to impress your average Gold Card holder, especially when they are used to actually get an assigned seat so they do not have to rely on 'speedy boarding'
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Nice publicity free ride for Easy courtesy of BASSA!
as they leave LTN never to return to orange world? 
This is a golden opportunity for BA’s Executive Club card holders to try our Speedy Boarding product – after which, they will never look back
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Andy
I'm not saying there is hope for a resolution, just saying that I'm hoping there is one. No-one wants this grief to continue indefinitely but as you rightly point out the same probs may reappear and so they should be resolved to create certainty for the future. I think we can all agree on that!
STS you are right on the nail with the hammer.
BTW, in my own employment, I have accepted change and a future without absolute certainty but I am at least still employed and my best bet of continuing employment is to try to suggest and influence the changes and frankly, hope for the best. Anyone better off than this is, in my opinion, on a very good thing.
Ted
STS you are right on the nail with the hammer.
BTW, in my own employment, I have accepted change and a future without absolute certainty but I am at least still employed and my best bet of continuing employment is to try to suggest and influence the changes and frankly, hope for the best. Anyone better off than this is, in my opinion, on a very good thing.
Ted
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Ted, I think you can keep hoping, but don't hold your breath!!
I really do suspect that after the strike dates have been announced, BA will be forced to issue a 90 day SOSR notice, introduce "draconian" (or industry outside BA) Cabin Crew contracts, and invite any strikers who want to, to return on the new terms........or their old ones for 90 days.
If they don't change the crew now, the problem will keep resurfacing.
I really do suspect that after the strike dates have been announced, BA will be forced to issue a 90 day SOSR notice, introduce "draconian" (or industry outside BA) Cabin Crew contracts, and invite any strikers who want to, to return on the new terms........or their old ones for 90 days.
If they don't change the crew now, the problem will keep resurfacing.
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Andy
I hope is does not come to this. Whilst it is evident I do not agree that a strike is the way to settle this, I would not like to see everyone caught up in this dispute, in that position. These are after all real people with families etc. There must be a better way. I do not wish for a wholesale worsening of everyones lifestyles to be the outcome and I don't think any fair minded person would. But I am struggling to see the other side of the coin on this. It is certainly a very curious dispute. It seems to me that the motivation for a strike is about what might happen to them in the future not about what has or is happening, curious indeed.
I hold out a hope that some form of discussion and clarification about future plans (if that is the issue) might bring about a rapid conclusion to this for the good of all, especially the long suffering general public thinking of booking flights on BA of which I am one. But like you say, not holding my breath. Incidentally, have had many good flights on BA with highly responsive CC and never had cause to complain. Don't ruin it all, please !
Ted
I hold out a hope that some form of discussion and clarification about future plans (if that is the issue) might bring about a rapid conclusion to this for the good of all, especially the long suffering general public thinking of booking flights on BA of which I am one. But like you say, not holding my breath. Incidentally, have had many good flights on BA with highly responsive CC and never had cause to complain. Don't ruin it all, please !
Ted
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Ted
The real people with real families are those that keep voting for a strike, not questioning their reps as to why they don't manage to negotiate when other work groups do. Read the High Court judgement, look at the cost differential between BA and other airlines. Read of the bickering between the two unions, and the refusal to negotiate. Read the newspapers and watch the news, see that the airline industry is in dire straits. BASSA will never admit that to its members.
The people speak of wanting to change, but also not wanting to alter anything. They have the representation that they deserve.
Their greed is impacting on every other BA staff member.
It is time for wholesale change of Cabin Crew.
The real people with real families are those that keep voting for a strike, not questioning their reps as to why they don't manage to negotiate when other work groups do. Read the High Court judgement, look at the cost differential between BA and other airlines. Read of the bickering between the two unions, and the refusal to negotiate. Read the newspapers and watch the news, see that the airline industry is in dire straits. BASSA will never admit that to its members.
The people speak of wanting to change, but also not wanting to alter anything. They have the representation that they deserve.
Their greed is impacting on every other BA staff member.
It is time for wholesale change of Cabin Crew.
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It is time for wholesale change of Cabin Crew.