British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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it is one of the major downfalls of a union the size of Unite
As a trade unionist myself (in my past to be fair) I prefer a smaller union, close to the issues, close to the facts. Unites resources would be welcome perhaps, but it is at a cost.
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why are they striking ?
I cannot see why these cabin crew are striking - this is from the Guardian website :-
"Unite officials are wary of BA accusing the union of striking over plans to put new, lower-paid cabin crew on a separate fleet of planes. The plan, dubbed "new fleet" by BA, has been shunned by Unite in peace talks because BA could injunct a strike over the move under European Union law. BA used a similar legal argument to block a walkout by the British pilots' union, Balpa, in 2008. Balpa had threatened industrial action over the launch of OpenSkies, a subsidiary that flies from Paris to North America, using a separate pilot workforce."
So, what exactly are cabin crew going to risk losing staff travel persk/salary and perhaps their job over ?
Confused, very confused
"Unite officials are wary of BA accusing the union of striking over plans to put new, lower-paid cabin crew on a separate fleet of planes. The plan, dubbed "new fleet" by BA, has been shunned by Unite in peace talks because BA could injunct a strike over the move under European Union law. BA used a similar legal argument to block a walkout by the British pilots' union, Balpa, in 2008. Balpa had threatened industrial action over the launch of OpenSkies, a subsidiary that flies from Paris to North America, using a separate pilot workforce."
So, what exactly are cabin crew going to risk losing staff travel persk/salary and perhaps their job over ?
Confused, very confused
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To the 7482 YES voters:
So, you've bravely put an X on a ballot form. Well done You!
But now what?
I truly hope that all of you will have the guts to follow-up on your skilled and informed (it WAS informed, wasn't it?) penmanship, and participate fully in the strike, whenever it's called. Oh, and to take the consequences too.
Why BA should continue to entertain any of you with a monthly payslip, after all the damage you are knowingly inflicting on our employer, our colleagues and our customers, is totally beyond me.
Come the day of the strike, many of you will quite possibly conjure-up some weird reason as to why you personally should actually come to work. But it won't just be a case of turning-up and carrying-on as if nothing has happened. Rosters will have been wiped so it'll take at least a phone call to Scheduling to make yourself available for work. But by that stage, you'll have become surplus to requirements. BA will have drawn-up a schedule based on the numbers of us who have already said we'll work, plus the volunteers. They'll probably have built a percentage no-show figure into those plans too, just to account for the terminally confused and devious amongst you.
You've had plenty of time to add your name to the lists of those of us who'll be working. To decide on the day is just going to show that you are doing so unwillingly. BA is unlikely to be sitting by the phone waiting for calls from panic-striken, generally unwilling and confused crew. The decision to work through a strike shows and takes a lot of commitment but a last minute decision shows non of that.
7482 of you are now trapped by your own actions, in a space that's even smaller than that little box you marked on your ballot form.
I can imagine that a lot of you are ones who regularly complain that BA doesn't listen to us crew. Well, BA have listened this time, and they've heard loud and clear that you are going on strike. Enjoy!
These are my opinions, not those of my employer, BA.
But now what?
I truly hope that all of you will have the guts to follow-up on your skilled and informed (it WAS informed, wasn't it?) penmanship, and participate fully in the strike, whenever it's called. Oh, and to take the consequences too.
Why BA should continue to entertain any of you with a monthly payslip, after all the damage you are knowingly inflicting on our employer, our colleagues and our customers, is totally beyond me.
Come the day of the strike, many of you will quite possibly conjure-up some weird reason as to why you personally should actually come to work. But it won't just be a case of turning-up and carrying-on as if nothing has happened. Rosters will have been wiped so it'll take at least a phone call to Scheduling to make yourself available for work. But by that stage, you'll have become surplus to requirements. BA will have drawn-up a schedule based on the numbers of us who have already said we'll work, plus the volunteers. They'll probably have built a percentage no-show figure into those plans too, just to account for the terminally confused and devious amongst you.
You've had plenty of time to add your name to the lists of those of us who'll be working. To decide on the day is just going to show that you are doing so unwillingly. BA is unlikely to be sitting by the phone waiting for calls from panic-striken, generally unwilling and confused crew. The decision to work through a strike shows and takes a lot of commitment but a last minute decision shows non of that.
7482 of you are now trapped by your own actions, in a space that's even smaller than that little box you marked on your ballot form.
I can imagine that a lot of you are ones who regularly complain that BA doesn't listen to us crew. Well, BA have listened this time, and they've heard loud and clear that you are going on strike. Enjoy!
These are my opinions, not those of my employer, BA.
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License To Fly
Here we go again!
They will be striking over imposition - the principle of BA removing a crew member without asking for permission or negotiationg with BASSA and thereby not honouring gentlemen agreements.
So, what exactly are cabin crew going to risk losing staff travel persk/salary and perhaps their job over ?
Confused, very confused
Confused, very confused
They will be striking over imposition - the principle of BA removing a crew member without asking for permission or negotiationg with BASSA and thereby not honouring gentlemen agreements.
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Tell me snowbound, have you asked Unite why at a critical point in the negotiation process neither BASSA nor CC89 would sit in the same room as each other, leading to effectively no negotiation with BA? How did Unite explain this? Can you explain why Unite refused to have any further discussion with BA on their own cost saving proposals after the independent auditor found them to be worth over £100M less than they claimed? These statements of fact, which can be found in the judges ruling on the last court case, are undisputed by both sides.
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Snowbound
Many of us are proud to be part of BA and we don't want to see this company being completely ruined by BASSA - who apparently have no grip on reality.
What do you hope to gain from a strike?
Do you think BA will put back crew members?
BASSA keeps saying there should be a settled agreement through negotiations and not impositions - why did BASSA decide last year that there should be no further talks with the company? Can't you see how contradictory that is?
Many of us are proud to be part of BA and we don't want to see this company being completely ruined by BASSA - who apparently have no grip on reality.
What do you hope to gain from a strike?
Do you think BA will put back crew members?
BASSA keeps saying there should be a settled agreement through negotiations and not impositions - why did BASSA decide last year that there should be no further talks with the company? Can't you see how contradictory that is?
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snowbound
Well I could, and very eloquently too!! I just refuse to converse with someone called Timothy Claypole............ out of principal!
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Winston Smith! I have realised that in around 4-5 years time I will probably be struggling to pay my mortgage with the way things are inevitably going so to be honest, I don't expect anything from a strike!! I honestly think Willie will win this this but that doesn't mean to say that I am going to lie face down on the bed and part my butt cheeks. I am now forced to look for other employment because I know what is coming.... I just don't care anymore to be honest.
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Snowbound,
I can assure you that I'm not deluded. I haven't stated whether I believe that BA has told the truth at all times. I've only stated that the union has lied to its members on plenty of occasions. This is well documented, and have been posted here by many during the (many) threads on this topic. Therefore, I won't state them again. If you'd like to check some for yourself, please go ahead and read through the threads. Alternatively, you can have a look at the verdict from the (latest) court case.
There really is not need to sound so aggressive in your posts. There certainly is no need to start name-calling just because you don't agree with somebody.
Could you please tell me (and the rest of the people here) where you believe that BA has lied to you or not spoken the truth? I'd be very interested to know.
I personally cannot see any reason to strike for the issues currently unsolved. Please enlighten us all as to why you think we should put our jobs/livelihood etc on the line for this strike. Please don't say it's about what might happen in the future, as you cannot strike about that.
I wish you luck in finding a new job. There are plenty of people who DO care waiting in the pipeline to do your job (if you are indeed crew). CC with an attitude like yours are better off finding different employment, to be honest.
Gg
I'm BA crew and these are my opinions, not those of my employer.
I can assure you that I'm not deluded. I haven't stated whether I believe that BA has told the truth at all times. I've only stated that the union has lied to its members on plenty of occasions. This is well documented, and have been posted here by many during the (many) threads on this topic. Therefore, I won't state them again. If you'd like to check some for yourself, please go ahead and read through the threads. Alternatively, you can have a look at the verdict from the (latest) court case.
There really is not need to sound so aggressive in your posts. There certainly is no need to start name-calling just because you don't agree with somebody.
Could you please tell me (and the rest of the people here) where you believe that BA has lied to you or not spoken the truth? I'd be very interested to know.
I personally cannot see any reason to strike for the issues currently unsolved. Please enlighten us all as to why you think we should put our jobs/livelihood etc on the line for this strike. Please don't say it's about what might happen in the future, as you cannot strike about that.
I wish you luck in finding a new job. There are plenty of people who DO care waiting in the pipeline to do your job (if you are indeed crew). CC with an attitude like yours are better off finding different employment, to be honest.
Gg
I'm BA crew and these are my opinions, not those of my employer.
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Am I alone in my incredulity at the Unions position.
The reason for the strike is given as BA's imposition of new complements. A High Court Judge decided that the reason BA imposed was the Union's refusal to entertain any form of negotiation whatsoever, indeed he drew special attention to the fact that CC89/BASSA would not even share a room.
He also decided that BA's economic position made the impositions both reasonable and legal.
So the Union is calling a strike over something that is A) their fault and B) entirely reasonable in the eyes of the law.
Punishing BA for the Union's own inadequacies. Kafka (and/or Spike Milligan) would be delighted.
The reason for the strike is given as BA's imposition of new complements. A High Court Judge decided that the reason BA imposed was the Union's refusal to entertain any form of negotiation whatsoever, indeed he drew special attention to the fact that CC89/BASSA would not even share a room.
He also decided that BA's economic position made the impositions both reasonable and legal.
So the Union is calling a strike over something that is A) their fault and B) entirely reasonable in the eyes of the law.
Punishing BA for the Union's own inadequacies. Kafka (and/or Spike Milligan) would be delighted.
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Am I alone in my incredulity at the Unions position.
The reason for the strike is given as BA's imposition of new complements. A High Court Judge decided that the reason BA imposed was the Union's refusal to entertain any form of negotiation whatsoever, indeed he drew special attention to the fact that CC89/BASSA would not even share a room.
He also decided that BA's economic position made the impositions both reasonable and legal.
So the Union is calling a strike over something that is A) their fault and B) entirely reasonable in the eyes of the law.
Punishing BA for the Union's own inadequacies. Kafka (and/or Spike Milligan) would be delighted.
The reason for the strike is given as BA's imposition of new complements. A High Court Judge decided that the reason BA imposed was the Union's refusal to entertain any form of negotiation whatsoever, indeed he drew special attention to the fact that CC89/BASSA would not even share a room.
He also decided that BA's economic position made the impositions both reasonable and legal.
So the Union is calling a strike over something that is A) their fault and B) entirely reasonable in the eyes of the law.
Punishing BA for the Union's own inadequacies. Kafka (and/or Spike Milligan) would be delighted.
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Snowbound:
First, I'm not quite convinced that Mr. Walsh or the rest of BA's management is interested in even anticipating your scenario.
Secondly, it would be interesting if you could speak regarding the SPECIFICS regarding your objection to the imposition. How has it affected your paycheck, your duties, your future, etc..
What you have posted above is only appropriate for commentary on the websites registered to BASSA representative's names and I believe we have all had enough of that.
So, all drama and offensive narratives aside, what is the particular hardship you are experiencing and what would you ask of BA to allieviate your concerns?
I honestly think Willie will win this this but that doesn't mean to say that I am going to lie face down on the bed and part my butt cheeks.
Secondly, it would be interesting if you could speak regarding the SPECIFICS regarding your objection to the imposition. How has it affected your paycheck, your duties, your future, etc..
What you have posted above is only appropriate for commentary on the websites registered to BASSA representative's names and I believe we have all had enough of that.
So, all drama and offensive narratives aside, what is the particular hardship you are experiencing and what would you ask of BA to allieviate your concerns?
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This Strike Is Pure Selfishness
I think this strike is madness. The Union have acted, and will continue to act, in a selfish manner. Precious few of the Union's employees will lose their jobs as a result of this BA strike whereas I am certain a lot of cabin crew could well be out of work soon. But I shall not cry over that. The current short haul cabin crew seem to dish out the pre-packed food as quickly as possible and then, as someone has already mentioned, vanish, hiding behind their galley curtains. Years ago they used to prowl the cabin to see if a passenger needed something else....... No longer! Too much like work, let alone hard work. Long haul service is better but I believe that is a result of an increase in the number of European crew. However, the service is not what it was and compares poorly to Asian and Middle East Airlines. So, frankly, if these people cannot "pull up their socks" and if they decide to strike and jeopardise their livelihoods I think they deserve to lose their livelihoods. They will get a rude awakening when they try to find alternative employmentthat pays as well for as little effort.
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Snowbound,
Do you perhaps have a friend by the name ALurker?
I find your writing style quite aggressive, as I'm sure others do as well. You may call me whatever you like, but it doesn't make you look clever, to be honest.
In reference to me not knowing you: I don't know you, that is correct. You stated that you don't care anymore and you're going to apply for another job. I wished you good luck, as I would do to anyone seeking a job. No animosity at all. I did not make comments on your customer service skills.
As far as I can remember, BA said that as long as the required cost savings could be achieved, there would be no New Fleet. Well, the cost savings target hasn't been met, whence NF has come up again.
Have you got any proof that BA "leaked" any personal information to the press? If you know how the press works, journalists have amazing ways of finding information.
How do you feel that BA has acted in a bullying way? I haven't felt bullied by the company. The company has stated the consequences of going on strike. This isn't bullying anyone, but stating what will happen. If the company didn't do this, there would be uproar later, with crew members claiming they didn't know what the consequences would be. An example of "damned if you do, damned if you don't".
Please tell me why we should go on strike. You haven't answered this so far (apart from a cryptic message). I would be interested to hear your view, but please - calmly and no name-calling, thanks.
Gg
I'm BA crew and these are my opinions and not those of my employer
Do you perhaps have a friend by the name ALurker?
I find your writing style quite aggressive, as I'm sure others do as well. You may call me whatever you like, but it doesn't make you look clever, to be honest.
In reference to me not knowing you: I don't know you, that is correct. You stated that you don't care anymore and you're going to apply for another job. I wished you good luck, as I would do to anyone seeking a job. No animosity at all. I did not make comments on your customer service skills.
As far as I can remember, BA said that as long as the required cost savings could be achieved, there would be no New Fleet. Well, the cost savings target hasn't been met, whence NF has come up again.
Have you got any proof that BA "leaked" any personal information to the press? If you know how the press works, journalists have amazing ways of finding information.
How do you feel that BA has acted in a bullying way? I haven't felt bullied by the company. The company has stated the consequences of going on strike. This isn't bullying anyone, but stating what will happen. If the company didn't do this, there would be uproar later, with crew members claiming they didn't know what the consequences would be. An example of "damned if you do, damned if you don't".
Please tell me why we should go on strike. You haven't answered this so far (apart from a cryptic message). I would be interested to hear your view, but please - calmly and no name-calling, thanks.
Gg
I'm BA crew and these are my opinions and not those of my employer