British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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BA can slash cabin crew salaries and they'll still be losing millions a year
BA have never threatened to slash salaries, they offered to negotiate new contracts for new starters.
As they did in 1997.
They are losing billions because amongst other things, crew are still working to outmoded T&Cs or restrictive work practices if you prefer, drawn up when BOAC and BEA were still state-owned (loss-making) enterprises.
Join Date: Mar 2009
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New Fleet
It’s imperative that the union start to negotiate right now! BA has said previously that the New contracts would be 10% above market rate. Well the latest offer is £11K basic and £2.40 per hour. While the basic is about the same as all the others (including charter) the hourly rate is the *lowest* rate out there!
Unite wake up now and negotiate, do you want all your members on this rate of pay? They certainly won’t be able to afford the Union subs on that wage.
Unite wake up now and negotiate, do you want all your members on this rate of pay? They certainly won’t be able to afford the Union subs on that wage.
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Pride
This will be an issue too. If it was me as a rep, it would be worth swallowing a lot of this, if a position could be reached, that managed to remove the concerns of the crew, but let BA take a victorious position.
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Pride
That's the crux of this problem, Litebulbs. BA aren't interested in 'winning' or 'pride' or 'loss of face', they are trying to turn a loss-making operation into a profitable airline. However, WW and co are not prepared to allow BASSA/Unite to dictate. A face-saving measure allowing a weakened and toothless BASSA/Unite to continue being the collective bargainer will be the result that BA wants.
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LiteBulbs
Ah, this BASSA have going for them, if they want to.
I'm not trying to be a smart ass here but BASSA can agree to anything and sell it to crew as a win, they question nothing that BASSA issues forth after all.
I'm not trying to be a smart ass here but BASSA can agree to anything and sell it to crew as a win, they question nothing that BASSA issues forth after all.
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Just add up the passengers that have gone elsewhere , and the cost to BA of filling up the seats with cheap deals. Simples
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Winston
If this was the crew member lying about the BASSA savings, why believe anything said about seat occupancy ? They would be keen to show that the airline was still doing well and could afford etc etc
If this was the crew member lying about the BASSA savings, why believe anything said about seat occupancy ? They would be keen to show that the airline was still doing well and could afford etc etc
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Litebulb
was that not calculated on a potential cumulative loss of £1b? BA has returned to a small operating profit and the projected loss is around £600m. Should the saving that was required be reduced?
Why should CC have to find less savings, on the back of what every one else has sacrificed, or do you perceive CC somehow to be sacred and valued above all others?
If WW dared to do that, i think you would see an immediate backlash from every other working group in the company, unionised or not. And down would fall BA.
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Irrespective of who the CEO is or who is pulling the strings on the conflict the city investors want BASSA culled.
The rumour (it is a rumour site after all!) from Waterside is that the £600 million investment came with a number of strings attached. One of which was rationalisation of the Cabin Crew costs and the elemination of potential furture strike threats.
Read between the lines, Kill off BASSA for the good of the company.
The management have not put forward pay cuts, BASSA did that. They have even promised to protect pay and enter into negotiation over New Fleet but BASSA refused. Savings were and are to be achieved through rationalisation of crewing levels and increases in productivity.
BASSA are calling pay cuts and the doom and gloom of New Fleet because they don;t have the ability to negotiate a settlement.
The board and the investors obviously want BASSA's 'head' on a block. No surprise there really.
The rumour (it is a rumour site after all!) from Waterside is that the £600 million investment came with a number of strings attached. One of which was rationalisation of the Cabin Crew costs and the elemination of potential furture strike threats.
Read between the lines, Kill off BASSA for the good of the company.
The management have not put forward pay cuts, BASSA did that. They have even promised to protect pay and enter into negotiation over New Fleet but BASSA refused. Savings were and are to be achieved through rationalisation of crewing levels and increases in productivity.
BASSA are calling pay cuts and the doom and gloom of New Fleet because they don;t have the ability to negotiate a settlement.
The board and the investors obviously want BASSA's 'head' on a block. No surprise there really.
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One of the reasons why the losses are not worse, is all the sacrifices that the other 25,000- ish non CC BA staff have made- unpaid leave, more hours, taking on extra roles from those who took VR, pay freezes, pay cuts, new agreements etc.
Why should CC have to find less savings, on the back of what every one else has sacrificed, or do you perceive CC somehow to be sacred and valued above all others?
If WW dared to do that, i think you would see an immediate backlash from every other working group in the company, unionised or not. And down would fall BA.
Why should CC have to find less savings, on the back of what every one else has sacrificed, or do you perceive CC somehow to be sacred and valued above all others?
If WW dared to do that, i think you would see an immediate backlash from every other working group in the company, unionised or not. And down would fall BA.
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Litebulbs - "peer pressure"
Sorry but that is tosh! Thousands of staff outwith the BASSA bubble are genuinely worried for their futures. Many of them feel aggrieved that CC have "got away with murder" these past three decades due to an inability of management to take the initiative and create a fair, cost effective environment for all.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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..all of this is NOT being helped by Len McCluckle. BASSA would do well to remember that he is on his own agenda to be elected to the the top spot in UNITE. You can bet he does not give much thought to the collateral damage in pursuit of his ivory tower. That said, if you 'Wiki..' ivory tower you will notice the term 'intellectuals' is used in the explanation. Len is no intellectual. Hey Ho, this is democracy in action
His rhetoric yesterday was disgraceful IMHO. Go figure his 'Ballot Figures' - economical with the truth of course.
Reality: 53% of the total CC cadre of BA voted yes.
Nurj
Edited to Add:
His rhetoric yesterday was disgraceful IMHO. Go figure his 'Ballot Figures' - economical with the truth of course.
Reality: 53% of the total CC cadre of BA voted yes.
Nurj
Edited to Add:
Last edited by nurjio; 23rd Feb 2010 at 19:58.
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Litebulbs
Are you current crew?
If so I would be asking BASSA exactly where we are now. What are we asking for in the current TUC negotiations.
Surely as they put your job at risk and take you down the road to oblivion potentially you should be entitled to know and I mean NOW! Not if I happen to be able to make a mass meeting on thursday.
Are you current crew?
If so I would be asking BASSA exactly where we are now. What are we asking for in the current TUC negotiations.
Surely as they put your job at risk and take you down the road to oblivion potentially you should be entitled to know and I mean NOW! Not if I happen to be able to make a mass meeting on thursday.
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I think the result of the ballot, despite the spin they attach to it, is poor for Bassa, and they know it.
They know that they have been economical with the truth in explaining the vote, and have encouraged anyone and everyone to vote for whatever the reason they feel necessary.
Bassa also know that the moderate vote of 7480 Yes votes may well not translate into many more than 2-3000 strikers on day one, a figure manageable with ease by BA.
Watch out for some surprising proposals on Thursday.
They know that they have been economical with the truth in explaining the vote, and have encouraged anyone and everyone to vote for whatever the reason they feel necessary.
Bassa also know that the moderate vote of 7480 Yes votes may well not translate into many more than 2-3000 strikers on day one, a figure manageable with ease by BA.
Watch out for some surprising proposals on Thursday.
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Litebulbs
Are you current crew?
If so I would be asking BASSA exactly where we are now. What are we asking for in the current TUC negotiations.
Surely as they put your job at risk and take you down the road to oblivion potentially you should be entitled to know and I mean NOW! Not if I happen to be able to make a mass meeting on thursday.
Are you current crew?
If so I would be asking BASSA exactly where we are now. What are we asking for in the current TUC negotiations.
Surely as they put your job at risk and take you down the road to oblivion potentially you should be entitled to know and I mean NOW! Not if I happen to be able to make a mass meeting on thursday.
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Sorry but that is tosh! Thousands of staff outwith the BASSA bubble are genuinely worried for their futures. Many of them feel aggrieved that CC have "got away with murder" these past three decades due to an inability of management to take the initiative and create a fair, cost effective environment for all.
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Snas:
Your statement:
may not be that far off the mark and the seeming desperation of Cabin Crew to get something, anything out of this may serve negotiations well.
Your statement:
I'm not trying to be a smart ass here but BASSA can agree to anything and sell it to crew as a win, they question nothing that BASSA issues forth after all.
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Sickness
Can somebody explain how the company would enforce a policy during IA, that if you were sick, you will be deemed to be on strike? What if you are sick prior to any action, or are, for example, involved in an accident whilst driving to work?
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All depends on the mood at the meeting at Kempton on Thursday, Diplome.
IMHO a large number of very angry and confused crew are going to turn demanding answers to questions such as "What are we striking for?"
IMHO a large number of very angry and confused crew are going to turn demanding answers to questions such as "What are we striking for?"