British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8571456.stm
But the shadow transport secretary Theresa Villiers said Unite was "seeking to make things worse and internationalise the dispute".
"I gather the aim in talking to these other trade unions is to seek to block BA flights from landing during the period of the dispute," she said.
"I gather the aim in talking to these other trade unions is to seek to block BA flights from landing during the period of the dispute," she said.
BBC News - BA strike: Unite talks to US union
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...as would I. Regardless of your view of the legal position of ST loss, thats a big ask for someone who lives in Spain, wherever, to put at risk.
I dont believe that has been BASSA's position however.
...and Skipness, why wouldnt they, the gloves are off are they not.
I dont believe that has been BASSA's position however.
...and Skipness, why wouldnt they, the gloves are off are they not.
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Break the strike?
Have you not listened to any of BASSA's latest communication? They say BA cannot discriminate people for taking industrial action - which they would by removing staff travel permanently for those not turning up for duty.
Others do not believe BA will do it - as the case was during the strike in 1997 when it was removed during the strike and when it was over put in place. They constantly saying they had the same threats now as then - they have no idea. In 1997 they said staff travel would be removed during the strike - this time to be removed permanently.
And - BASSA is convinced they will be able to demand that staff travel is reinstated before they sign any deal - laughable.
Have you not listened to any of BASSA's latest communication? They say BA cannot discriminate people for taking industrial action - which they would by removing staff travel permanently for those not turning up for duty.
Others do not believe BA will do it - as the case was during the strike in 1997 when it was removed during the strike and when it was over put in place. They constantly saying they had the same threats now as then - they have no idea. In 1997 they said staff travel would be removed during the strike - this time to be removed permanently.
And - BASSA is convinced they will be able to demand that staff travel is reinstated before they sign any deal - laughable.
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Skipness, they are withdrawing their labour (legal) and others on another continent are making their own decision in respect of what do (or not) in respect of this dispute. Tony Woodley has NO control over US unions but if they wish to show international solidarity that is a matter for them.
Perhaps the focus of family holidays being ruined/disrupted should also fall on BA.
Just my 2p worth.
Perhaps the focus of family holidays being ruined/disrupted should also fall on BA.
Just my 2p worth.
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BBC item
British Airways union Unite is to meet its US counterpart Teamsters on Wednesday to discuss the strike by the airline's cabin crew.
Teamsters, the main transport union in the US, confirmed that the meeting had been arranged.
It said it would "stand in solidarity" with Unite, but it is unclear what part, if any, the US union would play in the strikes.
The first strike by BA cabin crew is due to begin on Saturday.
Unite played down the meeting, saying that Unite would be meeting Teamsters officials to explain the background of the dispute.
"Unite has received a large number of inquiries from unions around the world offering their support to cabin crew," it said in a statement.
Blocking landings
But the shadow transport secretary Theresa Villiers said Unite was "seeking to make things worse and internationalise the dispute".
"I gather the aim in talking to these other trade unions is to seek to block BA flights from landing during the period of the dispute," she said.
Teamsters has 1.4 million members in the US, including 40,000 workers in the aviation industry.
BA said it was "sad" to see Unite "seeking backing from trade unions overseas to support its unjustified strike against an iconic British brand".
British Airways union Unite is to meet its US counterpart Teamsters on Wednesday to discuss the strike by the airline's cabin crew.
Teamsters, the main transport union in the US, confirmed that the meeting had been arranged.
It said it would "stand in solidarity" with Unite, but it is unclear what part, if any, the US union would play in the strikes.
The first strike by BA cabin crew is due to begin on Saturday.
Unite played down the meeting, saying that Unite would be meeting Teamsters officials to explain the background of the dispute.
"Unite has received a large number of inquiries from unions around the world offering their support to cabin crew," it said in a statement.
Blocking landings
But the shadow transport secretary Theresa Villiers said Unite was "seeking to make things worse and internationalise the dispute".
"I gather the aim in talking to these other trade unions is to seek to block BA flights from landing during the period of the dispute," she said.
Teamsters has 1.4 million members in the US, including 40,000 workers in the aviation industry.
BA said it was "sad" to see Unite "seeking backing from trade unions overseas to support its unjustified strike against an iconic British brand".
Controversial, moi?
If you really can't bring yourself to work as crew, BA are looking for volunteers to taxi aircraft on Friday night and there is plenty of overtime available. Help yourself to the money on offer whilst some of your colleagues save the airline.
It is a highly contentious point as to whether pilots volunteering to work as volunteer CC would make or break WW's plan or indeed BA itself. So your last sentence, while making you appear a martyr to the cause, is at best, questionable.
I am as right wing as they come but having observed BA management first hand for the past 20+ years I do realise why unions are a necessary evil. However, the act of using other unionised workers in the same company to break a dispute is one thing but the pilot's volunteering I think is a disaster.
Firstly, relations between pilots and CC in BA have always been poor and BASSA have never missed an opportunity to cast aspersions about pilots with most allegations or references being almost entirely fictitious. I hardly think pilots volunteering will improve that situation.
Secondly, BALPA have claimed neutrality yet one of the BACC reps has caused unbelievable dissent and division within the BALPA hierachy by volunteering himself at the first opportunity. How will that help the pilot negotiators when next there is a joint negotiation between all flying staff representatives and BA?
Thirdly, how will BALPA's declared neutral stance be seen when one of its volunteer officers has visibly sought to undermine another union's dispute?
Fourthly, it is my view that once WW wins this dispute, which he well and truly will, does anybody really believe he will not be emboldened to tackle the next group using similar tactics?
Unite/BASSA 'leaders' are a bunch of short sighted idiots and their ridiculous behaviour has jeopardised the position of everybody in the company but looking further ahead they will have truly stuffed all employees negotiating strength for the foreseeable future once they are beaten.
BA's immediate viability is not much threatened by this strike. They have the funding and can allow it to continue for some months although my prediction is it will be over within 48 hours. BA's real problem is that its business model no longer works and its CAPEX funding requirements over the next few years are far from assured.
I have worked for numerous companies during my career but I have to say, with no sense of pleasure, that BA is the most dysfunctional organisation I have ever known. Interdepartmental envy, wilful obstructiveness (e.g. when using staff travel) and sheer unpleasantness often shown by individuals to colleagues in other departments coupled with appalling middle management makes it a very odd place to work.
The reason I stay is because it pays me very well indeed and is one of the best pilot jobs in the world. Being a pilot also means that for most of the time I am not immediately affected by the aforementioned issues and my working environment can be described as pleasant.
But to be brutally honest many thousands of BA employees don't deserve to have a job let alone a well rewarded one with BA and if BA went bust it would finally bring home a few home truths to those who have been blind to them for so long.
This current dispute epitomises the culture within BA and the future will indeed be interesting.
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Let's see...
It's been said in this thread by others, and it's so right. WW must have near shat himself when he realised the CC membership might just actually give the ok on the new agreement.
At least the BA PR person being quoted by the Guardian now is being honest about things - stopping only just short from spelling out how "we see public support, we see media support, we see weakness and in-fighting between the different employee groups (perfect, that plan worked just swell Jerry!), we even see the cc workforce now split in opinion - WOW - we can also fly 60% of our passengers - heck we don't want an agreement now, we want this strike! Bring it, baby!!"
The union has offered to call of the strike, but WW has got the taste for a smack down, and he's chomping at the bit for a dirty fight. Well after all, this was the reason he was hired to the top job at the world's fave, right?
- New "Final" agreement put forth by BA
- Unite asks for time to ballot membership - offers to call of strike while they do this
- BA, worried the agreement might actually be accepted (!), says screw you, offer is off the table now
It's been said in this thread by others, and it's so right. WW must have near shat himself when he realised the CC membership might just actually give the ok on the new agreement.
At least the BA PR person being quoted by the Guardian now is being honest about things - stopping only just short from spelling out how "we see public support, we see media support, we see weakness and in-fighting between the different employee groups (perfect, that plan worked just swell Jerry!), we even see the cc workforce now split in opinion - WOW - we can also fly 60% of our passengers - heck we don't want an agreement now, we want this strike! Bring it, baby!!"
The union has offered to call of the strike, but WW has got the taste for a smack down, and he's chomping at the bit for a dirty fight. Well after all, this was the reason he was hired to the top job at the world's fave, right?
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Let's see...
* New "Final" agreement put forth by BA
* Unite asks for time to ballot membership - offers to call of strike while they do this
* BA, worried the agreement might actually be accepted (!), says screw you, offer is off the table now
* New "Final" agreement put forth by BA
* Unite asks for time to ballot membership - offers to call of strike while they do this
* BA, worried the agreement might actually be accepted (!), says screw you, offer is off the table now
Steve Turner on a freebie to meet the Teamsters (honourable bunch, that lot!) is hardly going to help the PR cause, is it?
BA want the strike. They want to demonstrate to UNITE, BASSA and any sheep that follow them that they will no longer put up with the CC union nonsense that has dogged the airline for decades.
Good for you Mr. Walsh.
Finish the job.
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The union has offered to call of the strike, but WW has got the taste for a smack down, and he's chomping at the bit for a dirty fight.
"Put the offer back on the table and we will look sensibly at suspending the strike and we can hopefully find a long-term solution to a very difficult subject." Woodley said.
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I think the difference here is in the wording being banded about. BA wants the strike "cancelled", Unite have offered to "postpone" strikes, if a deal is put back on the table, allegedly. Big difference in the two words.
Although the Teamsters appears to be a bit cleaner now than in former days, I'd expect they'd take the view that 'one good turn deserves another'.
That's in the unlikely event that they are prepared to do anything substantial
Funny old thing, the present General President is Jimmy Hoffa's son.
That's in the unlikely event that they are prepared to do anything substantial
Funny old thing, the present General President is Jimmy Hoffa's son.
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M Mouse - an interesting post. Sheds much light on to inter-group relations. I too beleive BA to be dysfunctional; however, I that that much of BA's problems lie with the attitude of those workers who choose to believe the propaganda that flies around the various departments. Much of the propoganda, as we all know, is rubbish and is generated by those with 'peculiar' agendas. I believe the BA business model to be morphing into a workable beast, (albeit slowly-it has to, but that's for another debate) and I am glad Mr Walsh is the man at the helm as a weaker character would have run a mile months ago.
Attitude is something that an individual has control over. You can choose how to approach your work with an attitude. Imagine if every single employee arrived at BA with an attitude solely focussed on delivering the finest service to the customer, unshackled from a mindset influenced and controlled by suspicion and bigotry. BA would rule the world because, despite all of this militancy from Looney Leonard, the scouse docker, BA -The Brand is still alluring and still oozes SAFETY/CLASS.
The trick, post strike, will be to align attitude in the right direction. That will take decent leadership, something that the cabin crew are crying out for, something that the rest of us have top down from Mr Walsh at the moment.
Tin hat on.
IMHO.
nurj
Attitude is something that an individual has control over. You can choose how to approach your work with an attitude. Imagine if every single employee arrived at BA with an attitude solely focussed on delivering the finest service to the customer, unshackled from a mindset influenced and controlled by suspicion and bigotry. BA would rule the world because, despite all of this militancy from Looney Leonard, the scouse docker, BA -The Brand is still alluring and still oozes SAFETY/CLASS.
The trick, post strike, will be to align attitude in the right direction. That will take decent leadership, something that the cabin crew are crying out for, something that the rest of us have top down from Mr Walsh at the moment.
Tin hat on.
IMHO.
nurj
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Whilst Teamsters themselves are unlikely to be able to do much legally, the possibilities for 'unofficial' action on the ground are many and varied.
That Teamsters are even talking to union and expressing solidarity with CC puts the whole dispute onto a much bigger stage.
If I was flying anywhere with BA anytime soon, and had the opportunity to change to another carrier, I would, if only on the basis of the Teamster development.
That Teamsters are even talking to union and expressing solidarity with CC puts the whole dispute onto a much bigger stage.
If I was flying anywhere with BA anytime soon, and had the opportunity to change to another carrier, I would, if only on the basis of the Teamster development.
•New "Final" agreement put forth by BA
•Unite asks for time to ballot membership - offers to call of strike while they do this
•BA, worried the agreement might actually be accepted (!), says screw you, offer is off the table now
•Unite asks for time to ballot membership - offers to call of strike while they do this
•BA, worried the agreement might actually be accepted (!), says screw you, offer is off the table now
•New "Final" agreement put forth by BA conditional on no strike
•Unite asks for time to ballot membership, though saying they would not recommend it. BA agree to further time conditional on no strike.
•Unite worries that offer may be accepted by CC and anounces strike.
•Unite realises many CC are unhappy the BA offer was rejected and demand the offer they don't recommend is put back on table.
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..........Imagine if every single employee arrived at BA with an attitude solely focussed on delivering the finest service to the customer, unshackled from a mindset influenced and controlled by suspicion and bigotry. BA would rule the world.................. BA -The Brand is still alluring and still oozes SAFETY/CLASS.
The trick, post strike, will be to align attitude in the right direction. That will take decent leadership, something that the cabin crew are crying out for, something that the rest of us have top down from Mr Walsh at the moment.
nurj
Change management is extraordinarily difficult but not impossible. It requires a level of trust, mutual respect and understanding between management and employees not usually seen in the boss/worker relationship.
As long as (some) unions continue the fight/struggle/war on behalf of the downtrodden/oppressed workers against the bullying/macho/exploitative bosses then resistance to change will remain.
Once this strike is over it will be necessary for WW and the Leadership Team to start over and create a close relationship with the remaining employees.
Perhaps employee representation at Board level could achieve this? Once mutual trust and respect have been established BA's workforce can then face the future united in their common goals.
So UNITE is talking to the TEAMSTERS who are very supportive. Of course they are. If they can help trash BA then it opens the way for their own carriers to fill the void.
Spectacular own goal. Idiots.
BA will go to the wall as there is no sympathy for this strike. WW will walk away with a pot of money and your wonderful 1970's Union Officials will retire to their offices to claim the next bonus and look for the next pointless fight. Meanwhile, the BA staff will be lining up with the hoodies to collect their jobseekers allowance.
There is an almighty adjustment coming in the next two years. Buckle up.
Spectacular own goal. Idiots.
BA will go to the wall as there is no sympathy for this strike. WW will walk away with a pot of money and your wonderful 1970's Union Officials will retire to their offices to claim the next bonus and look for the next pointless fight. Meanwhile, the BA staff will be lining up with the hoodies to collect their jobseekers allowance.
There is an almighty adjustment coming in the next two years. Buckle up.
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Its shame thet BA cannot (via the TUC) ballot the cabin crew direct on its proposal (which Unite have consistently failed to do),but there again why put common sense in front of a leadership battle at UNITE.
