British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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BA Have already done the Math
1789 voted NO
2320 abstained
Thats 4000 ish who are likely to work. BASSA represent circa 11600 cabin crew add the non members to the above, then add another 1000 volunteers and 300 temp staff and you have a very healthy pool of people ready to break any strike.
BASSA its not going to work
1789 voted NO
2320 abstained
Thats 4000 ish who are likely to work. BASSA represent circa 11600 cabin crew add the non members to the above, then add another 1000 volunteers and 300 temp staff and you have a very healthy pool of people ready to break any strike.
BASSA its not going to work
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..and that PaddyMig.. is the measure of the incredible grip that BASSA has on its membership. McClusky's press conference is an example of the utter tripe that these people are prepared to peddle in order to propogate their influence. I, too, find it incredible that this is still going on in these times of austerity and that people follow it. Incredible. It's over now though. Final throw of the dice coming up.
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The UNITE Joint General Secretary stated that "We will not be announcing any dates for a strike at this time".
That is the cleverest thing he has said to date. He has 28 days to negotiate what is already imposed thus saving many innocent cabin crew from a battle that was not of their own making. This is bad news for forward bookings and will hit BA's immediate bottom line but on the whole, this comment is the best news I have heard for cabin crew for 12 months.
The imposition will stand and New Contract crew will be employed w.e.f. NOW!
That is the cleverest thing he has said to date. He has 28 days to negotiate what is already imposed thus saving many innocent cabin crew from a battle that was not of their own making. This is bad news for forward bookings and will hit BA's immediate bottom line but on the whole, this comment is the best news I have heard for cabin crew for 12 months.
The imposition will stand and New Contract crew will be employed w.e.f. NOW!
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What a terrible shame...
Led to the cliff, given all this time since the Christmas idiocy to take off their blindfolds and peer over the edge and they are STILL willing to jump!
All sympathy has evaporated, I'm afraid that the crew have voted to alienate themselves from every other employee of the company, who they feel should be the only work groups to genuinely negotiate!
Why the Unite leaders feel that BA will now negotiate just because of a high percentage yes vote I have no idea...
Good luck to all who will be caught in the crossfire but to all the BA crew reading this, your representatives have pressed the self destruct button, the following reaction from the company will not be pretty, I hope those that voted thinking this was a mandate for discussion and not for actually stepping onto the picket line realise now where this will lead. With all BA is preparing they will be expected to carry through their threat to withdraw their labour.
What a terrible shame
Led to the cliff, given all this time since the Christmas idiocy to take off their blindfolds and peer over the edge and they are STILL willing to jump!
All sympathy has evaporated, I'm afraid that the crew have voted to alienate themselves from every other employee of the company, who they feel should be the only work groups to genuinely negotiate!
Why the Unite leaders feel that BA will now negotiate just because of a high percentage yes vote I have no idea...
Good luck to all who will be caught in the crossfire but to all the BA crew reading this, your representatives have pressed the self destruct button, the following reaction from the company will not be pretty, I hope those that voted thinking this was a mandate for discussion and not for actually stepping onto the picket line realise now where this will lead. With all BA is preparing they will be expected to carry through their threat to withdraw their labour.
What a terrible shame
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numbers
So, for Longhaul....
If the plan is to operate the 777 only...
40 x 777 at LHR, say 9 crew per aircraft, flying a 3 on/3 off pattern (generous & sustainable)
40 x 9 = 360 crew required per day.
360 x 6 (days) = 2160 total crew required for the whole 6-day pattern, recurring.
No Voters = 1789
plus
Non union = 1700
= 3489 crew willing to work (if you assume all no voters will cross a picket line)
Also to consider, 1000 odd pilots/engineers/groundstaff trained as temp crew, most of the 2000-odd 'Non Voters' will report, and a proportion of YES voters will surely report for duty as normal.
Those numbers must look pretty good to Willie.
If the plan is to operate the 777 only...
40 x 777 at LHR, say 9 crew per aircraft, flying a 3 on/3 off pattern (generous & sustainable)
40 x 9 = 360 crew required per day.
360 x 6 (days) = 2160 total crew required for the whole 6-day pattern, recurring.
No Voters = 1789
plus
Non union = 1700
= 3489 crew willing to work (if you assume all no voters will cross a picket line)
Also to consider, 1000 odd pilots/engineers/groundstaff trained as temp crew, most of the 2000-odd 'Non Voters' will report, and a proportion of YES voters will surely report for duty as normal.
Those numbers must look pretty good to Willie.
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dave747436
Some 777 need only 8 crew - A320 will also be used.
I would also think minimum rest will be applied at LHR and not 3 days off.
Cross a picket line? I don't think it will be anywhere near T5 - it's not like when we were at the Compass Centre.
Some 777 need only 8 crew - A320 will also be used.
I would also think minimum rest will be applied at LHR and not 3 days off.
Cross a picket line? I don't think it will be anywhere near T5 - it's not like when we were at the Compass Centre.
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You have to consider now that it is not just Bassa but the 7482 individuals who voted for strike action that jeapordizes BA`s future.There has been enough information out there for months ,and these people are not unintelligent or uneducated and have had access to it.
To still have voted `Yes` is unbelievable.Virtually every employee in BA is against them.They will be despised as a group.
I hope thay are serious about the loss of their staff travel.If it is something that is reinstated as a result of any sort of agreement then it will always be considered an empty threat.
Good luck to the rest of BA- you will need it.
To still have voted `Yes` is unbelievable.Virtually every employee in BA is against them.They will be despised as a group.
I hope thay are serious about the loss of their staff travel.If it is something that is reinstated as a result of any sort of agreement then it will always be considered an empty threat.
Good luck to the rest of BA- you will need it.
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Winstonsmith
Hi winstonsmith,
I used a crew of 9, and a pattern of 3 on/3 off to show that a 777 only longhaul operation wouldn't be marginal in any way.
3 days off between trips & more than minimum crewing levels is sustainable indefinately, I would think.
For the sake of all the excellent CC I've flown with lately, I most sincerely hope that BASSA do the decent thing & stop playing with their livlihoods & careers.
I'm afraid to say I'm not optimistic.
I used a crew of 9, and a pattern of 3 on/3 off to show that a 777 only longhaul operation wouldn't be marginal in any way.
3 days off between trips & more than minimum crewing levels is sustainable indefinately, I would think.
For the sake of all the excellent CC I've flown with lately, I most sincerely hope that BASSA do the decent thing & stop playing with their livlihoods & careers.
I'm afraid to say I'm not optimistic.
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Whatdoesthisbuttondo:
I don't believe anyone believes this will be a walk in the park. However, it seems that BA management and many of its employees are up to the challenge.
Unite's statements to the press reveal a clear worry by their leadership regarding the numbers of individuals at BA's disposal.
As for the matter of Cabin Crew treating Flight Crew poorly, perhaps you should consider how hard BA has come down on individuals regarding text messages, etc.. Do you really think they are in the mood to tolerate individuals abusing other Crew members in flight?
Anyone who thinks 7,400 odd cabin crew going on strike isn't going to cause massive problems is a bit deluded.
Unite's statements to the press reveal a clear worry by their leadership regarding the numbers of individuals at BA's disposal.
As for the matter of Cabin Crew treating Flight Crew poorly, perhaps you should consider how hard BA has come down on individuals regarding text messages, etc.. Do you really think they are in the mood to tolerate individuals abusing other Crew members in flight?
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My calculations:
1789 No votes
2420 Non returns/spoilt papers
1200 Non union cabin crew
1000 Volunteers
300 Temporary crew
6700 Crew potentially available to crew the a/c!
(Plus people voting 'yes' who simply won't strike, and recently retired crew being invited back!)
If I were cabin crew, I would be feeling extremely pessimistic about this 'strike' having any significant impact!
It'll be doubles all round in Waterside tonight, and 5000 P45s being prepared!
(First P45 going to a recent poster for incitement to poison)
On a very serious note, the previous post, inciting tampering with crew food/water etc is precisely why these people cannot be allowed to continue working for BA, and endangering the lives of all on board the aircraft!
WW and the Board recognise this!
1789 No votes
2420 Non returns/spoilt papers
1200 Non union cabin crew
1000 Volunteers
300 Temporary crew
6700 Crew potentially available to crew the a/c!
(Plus people voting 'yes' who simply won't strike, and recently retired crew being invited back!)
If I were cabin crew, I would be feeling extremely pessimistic about this 'strike' having any significant impact!
It'll be doubles all round in Waterside tonight, and 5000 P45s being prepared!
(First P45 going to a recent poster for incitement to poison)
On a very serious note, the previous post, inciting tampering with crew food/water etc is precisely why these people cannot be allowed to continue working for BA, and endangering the lives of all on board the aircraft!
WW and the Board recognise this!
Last edited by 4468; 22nd Feb 2010 at 17:03.
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Posts are being deleted in an attempt to keep this thread readable and relevant to everybody.
If you have something useful to say, that adds something new or even, (a radical concept) factual, to the discussion, then please post. If you are simply posting to express disgust, outrage etc. etc. then don't waste your time, and ours, and everybody else's.
If you have something useful to say, that adds something new or even, (a radical concept) factual, to the discussion, then please post. If you are simply posting to express disgust, outrage etc. etc. then don't waste your time, and ours, and everybody else's.
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Not like the Guardian to be so sharply critical of the cabin crew:
BA boss needs a velvet glove | Martin Rivers | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
BA boss needs a velvet glove | Martin Rivers | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
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Your previous post henkybaby, was deleted by another moderator, presumably because all it contained was a quote from the BBC website.
Since we are all here on the internet, we are all capable of reading the BBC website.
And since you you did not write anything in your post to in some way explain why you thought the quote was relevant, your post was nothing more than white noise.
You henkybaby, like everybody else here, signed up to a moderated forum.
If you can not live with an occasional post being deleted (with the aim of keeping the thread readable and relevant) without on-thread whingeing, please do not post here.
In other words, zeur niet.
Since we are all here on the internet, we are all capable of reading the BBC website.
And since you you did not write anything in your post to in some way explain why you thought the quote was relevant, your post was nothing more than white noise.
You henkybaby, like everybody else here, signed up to a moderated forum.
If you can not live with an occasional post being deleted (with the aim of keeping the thread readable and relevant) without on-thread whingeing, please do not post here.
In other words, zeur niet.
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The repercussions from this will last for decades
A few years on, few could even remember the old Ts & Cs. Now, few are old enough to even know there was a strike. The ships returned to service, the customers were won back and there have been few problems since. Unions and crews have negotiated through further restructuring over the years. We still have a business.
Yes, I know it's not an exact analogy.