British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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If BASSA do loose they will just start all the spin again and blame eveyone but themselves for the whole mess.BASSA is run by amateurs Unite must be cringing at their tactics the latest publication from them says it all.
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Personally i do hope that an agreement can be reached sooner rather than later.If Bassa do remain the main union for cabin crew though i would expect more of the same in the future.I don't understand why BA and WW let them get away with all the stuff they print about BA and Pilots etc.
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Spikedriver,
I think that people are finally beginning to realise that they could actually be sacked, even if they have to go for unfair dismissal. Whichever way the vote goes, I suspect crew will turn up for work still.
I think that people are finally beginning to realise that they could actually be sacked, even if they have to go for unfair dismissal. Whichever way the vote goes, I suspect crew will turn up for work still.
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Oh Bassa forgot this - replying to PCCC's letter:
We liked this. A letter telling us not be anonymous from....an anonymous BASSA employee.
]Dear ? (I can’t address you by name because I don’t know who you are),
I retrieved your email from the junk mail folder, but nevertheless thought it was only polite and professional to respond.
Firstly can I begin by asking why exactly you feel it necessary to lurk in the shadows? Why do we have to wait until some unspecified time in the future, when you will reveal yourselves with a theatrical flourish, rather than know who you are today? Surely you want your point of view to be heard and you want people to join you. How many people do you think would wish to join a group when they have no idea who is leading it? You could be Mr Walsh’s mother in law. You could be one of the BASSA reps. You could be anyone at all.
If you are the reasonable bunch of cabin crew you say you are then why not stand up and be counted? You may be a group of popular, charismatic people who could change the views of thousands of crew and have a real influence on the ballot and the outcome. If you are, why are you afraid to be identified?
I presume you are afraid that if you reveal yourself you will be ‘bullied and harassed’, since you will almost inevitably be in the minority. But surely if you are cabin crew, you must be aware that BA vigorously investigates all accusations of bullying and harassment and employs hard hitting sanctions to deal with the perpetrators. So I ask you again, what are you afraid of?
I would also ask you, how you intend to recruit new members? I do not work for BA but if I did and I wanted to join you, or even just look into your point of view in more depth, with a view to joining, how would I do that? Would I be picked up from a secret location with a bag over my head and taken to your secret headquarters? Would I then be interrogated just to see if I was genuinely interested or just trying to find out who you are, so that I could pass on you identity the cabin crew at large?
It sounds really childish doesn’t it, but unfortunately if you want your voice to be heard, then you have to be prepared to defend your views. Only by speaking out bravely can you expect anyone to listen to you.
The BASSA and AMICUS reps don’t hide in the shadows. They are prepared to stand up in public and say what they believe in and inevitably I think you will find that people will have more respect for them and their views than they ever could for an unknown group of people, who insist on remaining faceless and nameless.
Maybe you have forgotten, but we live in a democracy and we have freedom of speech for all. Short of inciting racial hatred or the persecution of minorities, I would defend, to the last, the rights of anyone to say whatever they want.
You have as much right as anyone else to put forward your point of view and if it is a good and valid one, then you may very well get others to agree with you.
In short, isn’t it time you actually grew up a bit and stood up for your rights and possibly valid points of view. If anyone so much as looks at you strangely, you can report it to BA and they will support you with all the sanctions at their disposal.
Your sincerely
An employee of BASSA
PCCC been fully established for a few weeks now. Still no sign of BASSA using any logic to counter our position. But we at the PCCC are eternal optimists!
I just copied and pasted this directly from our email. What's with all the "Font" business?
Font-business because of way you copied it. I have removed it for you. flapsforty, moderator
www.professionalcrewcouncil.com
We liked this. A letter telling us not be anonymous from....an anonymous BASSA employee.
]Dear ? (I can’t address you by name because I don’t know who you are),
I retrieved your email from the junk mail folder, but nevertheless thought it was only polite and professional to respond.
Firstly can I begin by asking why exactly you feel it necessary to lurk in the shadows? Why do we have to wait until some unspecified time in the future, when you will reveal yourselves with a theatrical flourish, rather than know who you are today? Surely you want your point of view to be heard and you want people to join you. How many people do you think would wish to join a group when they have no idea who is leading it? You could be Mr Walsh’s mother in law. You could be one of the BASSA reps. You could be anyone at all.
If you are the reasonable bunch of cabin crew you say you are then why not stand up and be counted? You may be a group of popular, charismatic people who could change the views of thousands of crew and have a real influence on the ballot and the outcome. If you are, why are you afraid to be identified?
I presume you are afraid that if you reveal yourself you will be ‘bullied and harassed’, since you will almost inevitably be in the minority. But surely if you are cabin crew, you must be aware that BA vigorously investigates all accusations of bullying and harassment and employs hard hitting sanctions to deal with the perpetrators. So I ask you again, what are you afraid of?
I would also ask you, how you intend to recruit new members? I do not work for BA but if I did and I wanted to join you, or even just look into your point of view in more depth, with a view to joining, how would I do that? Would I be picked up from a secret location with a bag over my head and taken to your secret headquarters? Would I then be interrogated just to see if I was genuinely interested or just trying to find out who you are, so that I could pass on you identity the cabin crew at large?
It sounds really childish doesn’t it, but unfortunately if you want your voice to be heard, then you have to be prepared to defend your views. Only by speaking out bravely can you expect anyone to listen to you.
The BASSA and AMICUS reps don’t hide in the shadows. They are prepared to stand up in public and say what they believe in and inevitably I think you will find that people will have more respect for them and their views than they ever could for an unknown group of people, who insist on remaining faceless and nameless.
Maybe you have forgotten, but we live in a democracy and we have freedom of speech for all. Short of inciting racial hatred or the persecution of minorities, I would defend, to the last, the rights of anyone to say whatever they want.
You have as much right as anyone else to put forward your point of view and if it is a good and valid one, then you may very well get others to agree with you.
In short, isn’t it time you actually grew up a bit and stood up for your rights and possibly valid points of view. If anyone so much as looks at you strangely, you can report it to BA and they will support you with all the sanctions at their disposal.
Your sincerely
An employee of BASSA
PCCC been fully established for a few weeks now. Still no sign of BASSA using any logic to counter our position. But we at the PCCC are eternal optimists!
I just copied and pasted this directly from our email. What's with all the "Font" business?
Font-business because of way you copied it. I have removed it for you. flapsforty, moderator
www.professionalcrewcouncil.com
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First post
If cabin crew strikers have staff travel taken away how comfortable will non strikers feel when using staff travel on BA flights in the future. Staff code will be noted on PIL and it wouldn't take long for one of the crew to recognize you. Set up for further uncomfortable intimidation it seems. BYO food it! All not nice.
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What happens if judgement is given to BA, in that the reduced rostering is not a contractural matter? Unite and BASSA call off strike action, as the reason for having a strike has been judged not to exist. All the troops come drifting into work with a mingy expression on their face, work henceforth without enthusiasm, and are thoroughly nasty to those they felt were willing to undermine their proposed action. No one is any further forward!
Holedriller
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SCCMtoFlightDeck123 - you have the right to strike, if you so choose, and most of us on here respect that.
However, as a cabin crew member who does not agree with the strike, I have the RIGHT TO COME TO WORK. This right is outlined here: www.direct.gov.uk.
Are you threatening me for exercising my rights under UK Employment law?
However, as a cabin crew member who does not agree with the strike, I have the RIGHT TO COME TO WORK. This right is outlined here: www.direct.gov.uk.
Are you threatening me for exercising my rights under UK Employment law?
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If cabin crew strikers have staff travel taken away how comfortable will non strikers feel when using staff travel on BA flights in the future. Staff code will be noted on PIL and it wouldn't take long for one of the crew to recognize you. Set up for further uncomfortable intimidation it seems. BYO food it! All not nice.
They seem to be doing a good job of applying Darwinian principles and are slowly weeding themselves out of a job with their intimidation, malevolence and breaking of company regulations. They will man the braziers regardless and will be unwilling to return to work under the conditions that they will have caused their employer to impose to keep within cost targets.
The people left will be the decent, fair minded cabin crew who will continue to work in a professional manner.
I can't wait.
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Midman
I hope so too but there are so many worrying consequences any way you turn at the moment - pressure & remarks from everywhere. Just popped this one up as it came to mind.
Sorry you jumped on me too Hyflyer14.
I hope so too but there are so many worrying consequences any way you turn at the moment - pressure & remarks from everywhere. Just popped this one up as it came to mind.
Sorry you jumped on me too Hyflyer14.
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HiFlyer
I bet we read the letter sent to the PCC differently. I think that is an excellent letter, which I can imagine current Unite members would want answered before they would leave their current collective agreements and join the realms of effective consultation.
I don't know if you have had any experience of the difference between effective consolation against negotiation, so I will let you answer that before I comment.
May I ask again please, have you approached BA with regard to a voluntary recognition agreement?
I don't know if you have had any experience of the difference between effective consolation against negotiation, so I will let you answer that before I comment.
May I ask again please, have you approached BA with regard to a voluntary recognition agreement?
Last edited by Litebulbs; 14th Feb 2010 at 17:51.
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SCCMtoFlightDeck123
If I have incorrectly "jumped on you" then I apologise, but I feel that you need to add clarity to your first post by specifying where you are coming from (ie. are you cc? - striker or not, etc.)
Your first post reads as quite an intimidating one, and there are many intimidating remarks being banded around at the moment. It is important that those of us prepared to stand up to the bullying do so at every opportunity, hence the reason for my post.
I am BA cabin crew and the above represents my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
If I have incorrectly "jumped on you" then I apologise, but I feel that you need to add clarity to your first post by specifying where you are coming from (ie. are you cc? - striker or not, etc.)
Your first post reads as quite an intimidating one, and there are many intimidating remarks being banded around at the moment. It is important that those of us prepared to stand up to the bullying do so at every opportunity, hence the reason for my post.
I am BA cabin crew and the above represents my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
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SCCM
There should be no worrying consequences from standing up to militancy. They have their opinion as is their right, and no non-striker will intimidate them. The reverse should and will apply too.
I was discussing the issue a few days ago with a crewmember who was afraid of any consequences if she, as a no voter, was 'outed' when flying with a pro-strike CSD.
I said she should then come to the flight deck and explain her problem. It seemed to be a strange concept to her. That is an important part of our job, to deal with this sort of thing. Unfortunately neither IFS nor Bassa are keen to emphasise this role of ours on board or down route.
We can, and will, take appropriate immediate action against any cabin crewmember, including the SCCM, who behaves in a manner liable to adversely affect the operation of the crew. No-one should hesitate to speak to us, if only for advice.
There should be no worrying consequences from standing up to militancy. They have their opinion as is their right, and no non-striker will intimidate them. The reverse should and will apply too.
I was discussing the issue a few days ago with a crewmember who was afraid of any consequences if she, as a no voter, was 'outed' when flying with a pro-strike CSD.
I said she should then come to the flight deck and explain her problem. It seemed to be a strange concept to her. That is an important part of our job, to deal with this sort of thing. Unfortunately neither IFS nor Bassa are keen to emphasise this role of ours on board or down route.
We can, and will, take appropriate immediate action against any cabin crewmember, including the SCCM, who behaves in a manner liable to adversely affect the operation of the crew. No-one should hesitate to speak to us, if only for advice.
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Midman,
As always, well said.
SCCMtoflightdeck123,
Is that a threat or a warning? If not, it is an unfortunate remark.
As a non striker, strike buster, s*** or whatever you may choose to call me, it does not bother me in the slightest. I have the courage to stand up for what I too, believe is my absolute right.
Oops, looks like I'm jumping on you too, SCCMtoflight123!
I'm BA Cabin Crew and the above are my personal views and not those of my employer.
As always, well said.
Staff code will be noted on PIL and it wouldn't take long for one of the crew to recognize you.
Is that a threat or a warning? If not, it is an unfortunate remark.
Set up for further uncomfortable intimidation it seems.
Oops, looks like I'm jumping on you too, SCCMtoflight123!
I'm BA Cabin Crew and the above are my personal views and not those of my employer.
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Litebulbs,
A question for you, please.
Why have UNITE or indeed BASSA not made a statement with regards to the PCCC.co.uk bogus website set up by a BASSA, rep being linked to porn and the fake emails sent to cabin crew causing distress to many cc and indeed their very own members?
A question for you, please.
Why have UNITE or indeed BASSA not made a statement with regards to the PCCC.co.uk bogus website set up by a BASSA, rep being linked to porn and the fake emails sent to cabin crew causing distress to many cc and indeed their very own members?
Last edited by Tiramisu; 14th Feb 2010 at 19:30. Reason: spelling
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Tiramisu,
If the site has been set up using Unite funds, then Unite should be held to account for it. If not, then why should Unite make comment about somebody making up a web site using private money?
Unite have no obligation to find out about this site, or carry out any action against the alleged site designer.
HiFlyer
Has the PCC approached BA about voluntary recognition?
If the site has been set up using Unite funds, then Unite should be held to account for it. If not, then why should Unite make comment about somebody making up a web site using private money?
Unite have no obligation to find out about this site, or carry out any action against the alleged site designer.
HiFlyer
Has the PCC approached BA about voluntary recognition?
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Midman
If you were operating a flight which was crewed by PCC members and there was only one BASSA member and that member felt threatened/intimidated by the PCC, would you have a chat with the crew member and help/support them in their beliefs?
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From the week in the life of...........
"4 conversations with solicitors."
Only 4?
A union in the middle of a major court case and currently holding a strike ballot.
Perhaps this is where they are going wrong.
Every thing that they do, every letter that they send out and every forum posting that the reps make should be vetted by solicitors first!
"4 conversations with solicitors."
Only 4?
A union in the middle of a major court case and currently holding a strike ballot.
Perhaps this is where they are going wrong.
Every thing that they do, every letter that they send out and every forum posting that the reps make should be vetted by solicitors first!
Last edited by Sunshine Express; 14th Feb 2010 at 18:17.
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If the site has been set up using Unite funds, then Unite should be held to account for it. If not, then why should Unite make comment about somebody making up a web site using private money?
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Oh dear
Directed to this site by flight crew colleague who thought it might help in the midst of all of this. Obviously haven't started well 
!!
I am not used to forums and if I was talking face to face I know you would understand I am a mediator not and intimidator, my written word is obviously not as clear as my spoken one.
I apologize if my post seemed to intimidate, perhaps I should have put ' recognize you/me' from the PIL. I am genuinely worried about this happening and feel staff travel wouldn't be worth having for the worry for some of us. You talk about standing up to bullies I can and do, but in a mediator role. Often I find cabin crew do not like any sort of confrontation and I can only do this if I spot or hear it happening. Subtle underhand bullying when you are a PAX on a plane where the crew have the power is harder to deal with.
!!I am not used to forums and if I was talking face to face I know you would understand I am a mediator not and intimidator, my written word is obviously not as clear as my spoken one.
I apologize if my post seemed to intimidate, perhaps I should have put ' recognize you/me' from the PIL. I am genuinely worried about this happening and feel staff travel wouldn't be worth having for the worry for some of us. You talk about standing up to bullies I can and do, but in a mediator role. Often I find cabin crew do not like any sort of confrontation and I can only do this if I spot or hear it happening. Subtle underhand bullying when you are a PAX on a plane where the crew have the power is harder to deal with.