British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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I understand the need for flexibility, if you are on standby. But, given that rosters are published well in advance, you can take advantage of a firm seat on another carrier, for a price better than staff travel. All it takes is a little forward planning.
If the flight is cancelled or delayed, then that can happen to any airline, and there are EU rules governing the situation.
Since BA pulled off Spanish routes from LGW, I wonder what the crew who used staff travel are doing now - using EZY of course. OK you risk losing your money if your inbound flight is delayed, but at least 80 percent of the time you will be financially quids in, and not on standby.
ps For those LHR bound EZY is now the ONLY carrier from LGW on some extremely profitable Spanish routes, BCN for one!
Why pay over the odds for staff travel if you can plan ahead? It simply doesn't make sense.
If the flight is cancelled or delayed, then that can happen to any airline, and there are EU rules governing the situation.
Since BA pulled off Spanish routes from LGW, I wonder what the crew who used staff travel are doing now - using EZY of course. OK you risk losing your money if your inbound flight is delayed, but at least 80 percent of the time you will be financially quids in, and not on standby.
ps For those LHR bound EZY is now the ONLY carrier from LGW on some extremely profitable Spanish routes, BCN for one!
Why pay over the odds for staff travel if you can plan ahead? It simply doesn't make sense.
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A Bit Clearer
Reading through some of the postings from pro-BASSA/Unite folks has clarified to me part of the problem between the union and BA. There is a histrionic quality to the CC arguments including use of symbols from WW2 and comparing their situation to those of individuals persecuted by totalitarian governments which are inaccurate analogies and in poor taste at best.
If CC want to negotiate a fair agreement with BA it needs to be done without ranting and raving - basing arguments instead on common interests. If they cast themselves into the role of martyrs they will gain no public support and continue to make decisions which are ultimately self-defeating such as the 12 days of Christmas strike fiasco and now the internet acting out nonsense.
Please CC - try to negotiate this from the standpoint of rationality, don't take the decisions by BA as somehow personally reflecting against you, and try and take a good long hard look at your position taking into account the current status of the economy. Otherwise your arguments come across as long winded screeds with no particular merit which are a reflection of narcissistic self-importance.
If CC want to negotiate a fair agreement with BA it needs to be done without ranting and raving - basing arguments instead on common interests. If they cast themselves into the role of martyrs they will gain no public support and continue to make decisions which are ultimately self-defeating such as the 12 days of Christmas strike fiasco and now the internet acting out nonsense.
Please CC - try to negotiate this from the standpoint of rationality, don't take the decisions by BA as somehow personally reflecting against you, and try and take a good long hard look at your position taking into account the current status of the economy. Otherwise your arguments come across as long winded screeds with no particular merit which are a reflection of narcissistic self-importance.
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BAcrewboy, at the top of the forum there is a sticky called Forum FAQ & useful links: please read BEFORE you post!
The idea is that you read it before you start contributing here.
And that you then stick to what it says there.
You have obviously not read it, or if you have, you decided that those rules did not apply to you. Only to others.
A faulty assumption.
Also, you have been asked several times to address your formatting issues. They make your long posts a very choppy and irritating read.
You have not addressed the formatting issue either.
All in all it seems that you expect the forum to adapt to whatever you feel is right, rather than you adhering to what you agreed to when you signed up for PPRuNe.
To keep the forum a good read for everybody, it does not work that way.
Your posts either stick to the rules and stay, or donīt stick to the rules and get deleted.
Canīt make it any clearer than that.
The idea is that you read it before you start contributing here.
And that you then stick to what it says there.
You have obviously not read it, or if you have, you decided that those rules did not apply to you. Only to others.
A faulty assumption.
Also, you have been asked several times to address your formatting issues. They make your long posts a very choppy and irritating read.
You have not addressed the formatting issue either.
All in all it seems that you expect the forum to adapt to whatever you feel is right, rather than you adhering to what you agreed to when you signed up for PPRuNe.
To keep the forum a good read for everybody, it does not work that way.
Your posts either stick to the rules and stay, or donīt stick to the rules and get deleted.
Canīt make it any clearer than that.
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WOWSERs, thanks Flaps. - Good to be back. Now, what's this I hear about tensions between BA LT and BASSA?
It's been a most interesting watch over the past 3 months - the thing that stands out for me is how BASSA have been marginalised by the BA management, the public, the rest of the workforce within BA - I just don't see how BASSA can pull anything out of the hat now....and as for the metatagging to porno, what a disgrace - and no denial.
nurj
It's been a most interesting watch over the past 3 months - the thing that stands out for me is how BASSA have been marginalised by the BA management, the public, the rest of the workforce within BA - I just don't see how BASSA can pull anything out of the hat now....and as for the metatagging to porno, what a disgrace - and no denial.
nurj
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Sussex2 - its not reporting for duty that needs the flexibility - its going home after. At present it is perfectly feasible to book a standby on a flight leaving say 90 minutes after scheduled arrival into T5. If you don't make it, well bad luck but no real stress, just rebook onto the flight 3 hours later.
However, can you risk missing that flight and losing your entire fare, plus paying for another non-flexible, short notice ticket if your flight/stand/bag is delayed by only 20 minutes?
These days quite a few commuters buy full(ish) fare Hotlines to get to work, but Standby tickets to get home for that exact reason. Have you seen the price of a LON-BCN single fare 2 hours pre departure?
However, can you risk missing that flight and losing your entire fare, plus paying for another non-flexible, short notice ticket if your flight/stand/bag is delayed by only 20 minutes?
These days quite a few commuters buy full(ish) fare Hotlines to get to work, but Standby tickets to get home for that exact reason. Have you seen the price of a LON-BCN single fare 2 hours pre departure?
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Flaps - I have read the FAQs and terms of use and I cannot see where I have violated them with any of my posts. I have not had a problem with any of my posts until this morning!
I do not ever remember being asked to address my formatting issues (not sure quite what that means!?) and if you are referring to the post that I made this morning, I was simply passing on to the community the latest e-mail from BASSA.
Could you please clarify why my posts were removed? I thought that I was getting on well on this forum, providing a balanced and fair view from the eyes of BA crew!
I do not ever remember being asked to address my formatting issues (not sure quite what that means!?) and if you are referring to the post that I made this morning, I was simply passing on to the community the latest e-mail from BASSA.
Could you please clarify why my posts were removed? I thought that I was getting on well on this forum, providing a balanced and fair view from the eyes of BA crew!
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BAcrewboy
Don't worry.I would say the majority of posters have had things deleted for reasons they didn't understand.
Some of my best posts have been deleted.
At least you didn't get a ban.
Your Bassa post was very informative, I'm sure a lot of people enjoyed reading it.
Don't give up and carry on.
Don't worry.I would say the majority of posters have had things deleted for reasons they didn't understand.
Some of my best posts have been deleted.
At least you didn't get a ban.
Your Bassa post was very informative, I'm sure a lot of people enjoyed reading it.
Don't give up and carry on.
Last edited by 617sqn; 12th Feb 2010 at 17:15.
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BAcrewboy:
My personal advice is to simply look toward the guidelines and continue to participate.
I have had a few posts go "poof", one I understood, the other maybe not so much, but the point is that we are here as guests of our hosts, and these BA threads are a bit violatile at the moment...so I understand that our mods are attempting to keep a lively conversation ongoing, while doing their best to steer clear of any messy directions.
I respect that..and also understand that I don't have to respect it, its their board. They set the rules. So far soooo good
Could you please clarify why my posts were removed? I thought that I was getting on well on this forum, providing a balanced and fair view from the eyes of BA crew!
I have had a few posts go "poof", one I understood, the other maybe not so much, but the point is that we are here as guests of our hosts, and these BA threads are a bit violatile at the moment...so I understand that our mods are attempting to keep a lively conversation ongoing, while doing their best to steer clear of any messy directions.
I respect that..and also understand that I don't have to respect it, its their board. They set the rules. So far soooo good
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617,
I haven't seen any kind of aplogies or statements about Bassa not being involved in the setting up of fake websites. I'm thinking the same as you, I think, as if something wasn't true about me, I would want to anounce it.
The union haven't denyed bullying/harasment either, as discribed in the papers today.
I haven't seen any kind of aplogies or statements about Bassa not being involved in the setting up of fake websites. I'm thinking the same as you, I think, as if something wasn't true about me, I would want to anounce it.
The union haven't denyed bullying/harasment either, as discribed in the papers today.
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Just get the feeling the cabin crew are barking up wrong tree on this one and should leave any strike thoughts to when BA get serious in cost cuttings, maybe go after the allowances which iguess is where serious money could be saved. Public and airline support is zero im afraid
Perhaps the CC should suggest the Pilots adopt subpart Q FTL then quiet a few of them could be dropped from flights / reduce the establishment etc.
Perhaps the CC should suggest the Pilots adopt subpart Q FTL then quiet a few of them could be dropped from flights / reduce the establishment etc.
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I am with you about barking up the wrong tree.
I am willing to fight for my job..... when the time comes.
At the moment I don't feel that I have a good enough reason to do so.
If , and it's an if, things get worse then put up a fight.Not now.
I think that this is a terrible state to get into.
I really don't know how it will all end.
I am willing to fight for my job..... when the time comes.
At the moment I don't feel that I have a good enough reason to do so.
If , and it's an if, things get worse then put up a fight.Not now.
I think that this is a terrible state to get into.
I really don't know how it will all end.
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BBC Even Handedness.
Richard, a BA CSD, has just told the BBC that the PCC is founded & run by BA pilots supported by BA. He feels totally intimidated by all of the aggression that he has suffered as a Bassa member.
I feel very sorry for him!
He's also just told the nation that the volunteer pilots are receiving a Ģ500.00 bonus for breaking the strike. He proved that this was correct because a captain's wife told him so only yesterday.
I feel very sorry for him!
He's also just told the nation that the volunteer pilots are receiving a Ģ500.00 bonus for breaking the strike. He proved that this was correct because a captain's wife told him so only yesterday.
If what I have read on here with respect to PCC and Volunteers is true and can be verified, then the BBC will almost certainly offer the opportunity to refute those allegations.
From this thread (and MkV) I understand that PCC (Previously PCCC) was started by Cabin Crew - members of this forum - who did so out of perfectly understandable concerns for their own jobs. So far as it is possible to tell, those members have done little more than make BA aware they exist, but have done nothing else, but gather members. I have seen statements that say the PCC have specifically not attempted to negotiate with BA and I have seen nothing that suggests those who have 'signed up' to PCC have paid any membership yet. I have seen no statements from BA even acknowledging that PCC exist or their opinions of it. Very odd behavior from a 'sponsoring authority' is it not?
Although I have seen posts from quite a large number of forum members I understand to be pilots, saying they have volunteered and some, indeed, that they have received training, I have seen no mention whatever that they had received money bonuses to do so. I imagine that is a very easy issue to determine and refute?
Thus, almost the whole issue can be encapsulated by the statements of that CSD. I didn't hear the broadcast and thus I don't know how this chap came across. Genuine or not, if he was convinced enough to say what he did and those statements can be demonstrated to be the rubbish I understand them to be, then a broadcast rebuttal would have a massive effect on the perceptions of BASSA members.
Roger.
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Landroger - I think you are talking about the phone-in on radio 5 live earlier today, he wasnt speaking for BASSA offically, or BA or CC for that matter, it was just a phone in. Others gave a different version of events to his, there was balance.
Indeed he used a false name so could well have been a plumber from Greenwich council for all we know..!
Indeed he used a false name so could well have been a plumber from Greenwich council for all we know..!
Last edited by Snas; 12th Feb 2010 at 18:40.
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Landroger - I think you are talking about the phone-in on radio 5 live earlier today, he wasnt speaking for BASSA offically, or BA or CC for that matter, it was just a phone in. Others gave a different version of events to his, there was balance.
Indeed he used a false name so could well have been a plumber from Greenwich council for all we know..!
Indeed he used a false name so could well have been a plumber from Greenwich council for all we know..!
It's a pity that there was little live input from more moderate CC members & particularly any member of the PCCC. Emails being read out by the programme host don't have the same impact as a live interview.
Although I mainly disagree with what Richard had to say, he came across as a very persuasive individual. He reminded me very much of the Unite CC spokesman who's name escapes me. Steve Turner, remembered Sat am!
Last edited by fincastle84; 13th Feb 2010 at 10:59. Reason: Remembered the name
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Although it was a phone in, Richard featured throughout the programme. To suggest that he might be a plumber is very unflattering for CC members. He was very well versed in Bassa propaganda for a plumber.
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link to bbc
Here is the link to the radio 5 live phone in
BBC iPlayer Console - Victoria Derbyshire: 12/02/2010
I did listen and noted all the comments. Two people in particular caught my attention. I thought I recognised the voice of one of the BASSA/UNITE reps and there were also comments from a `pilot` from `another airline` who surprisingly quoted figures very similar to figures that have appeared on `another` forum.
This is a problem for live phone ins in that the broadcaster has very little or no control on the veracity/validity of any contributer.
I suppose the same could be said of contributers to internet forums though.
BBC iPlayer Console - Victoria Derbyshire: 12/02/2010
I did listen and noted all the comments. Two people in particular caught my attention. I thought I recognised the voice of one of the BASSA/UNITE reps and there were also comments from a `pilot` from `another airline` who surprisingly quoted figures very similar to figures that have appeared on `another` forum.
This is a problem for live phone ins in that the broadcaster has very little or no control on the veracity/validity of any contributer.
I suppose the same could be said of contributers to internet forums though.
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Dissinformation
1) You don't get paid to do a cabin crew course. If you were on flying duties you keep the flying pay you would have earned whilst on the aircraft, but you lose your time away from base payment and any nightstop allowances. So anyone on a course will get less money than they would had they flown.
2) Also no one has failed a course.
3) Also the pilots will not get there pay cut back which equates to a 4%-8% cut dependent on your time in the company.
2) Also no one has failed a course.
3) Also the pilots will not get there pay cut back which equates to a 4%-8% cut dependent on your time in the company.
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There is no Ģ500 payment as many have stated.
I listened to "Richard" as well. He came across as very persuasive, like a salesman or conman. He was putting himself across as the sane voice of BASSA. There will have been many listeners who will believe him, including such lies as the Ģ500.
If you keep repeating such things enough times (the BASSA way) you will get people to believe your viewpoint. It was interesting that BA did not see fit to present their view, perhaps their plan renders such BASSA publicity as irrelevant...
I listened to "Richard" as well. He came across as very persuasive, like a salesman or conman. He was putting himself across as the sane voice of BASSA. There will have been many listeners who will believe him, including such lies as the Ģ500.
If you keep repeating such things enough times (the BASSA way) you will get people to believe your viewpoint. It was interesting that BA did not see fit to present their view, perhaps their plan renders such BASSA publicity as irrelevant...