British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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RE: 747's
RUTHANNE
Ruthanne - My girlfriend is a pilot at BA and during the strike period, she will be repositioning an aircraft on the same route that she would have been flying (i.e. flying an empty aircraft to a destination so that it can fly back with stranded PAX)...I guess that it is the same thing happening with the flights from Phoenix to LHR, they will be repositioned to Pheonix and fly back full.
Only a guess, so don't hold me to it!!
A question? Are there no plans to fly long haul 747's in the strike period,
What are the chances of LHR Phoenix being re instated, I notice that they are actually flying Phoenix Heathrow on some of the strike dates, how will this work as there are no Heathrow Phoenix flights scheduled! and
when ever I have flown Heathrow Phoenix its always done on a turn around.
Or maybe they are planning to use Phoenix Sky Harbour as a plane park!!!
Apologies if my aviation used words are not in the normal way,
I'm only a interested passenger with great fears for my planned vacation
What are the chances of LHR Phoenix being re instated, I notice that they are actually flying Phoenix Heathrow on some of the strike dates, how will this work as there are no Heathrow Phoenix flights scheduled! and
when ever I have flown Heathrow Phoenix its always done on a turn around.
Or maybe they are planning to use Phoenix Sky Harbour as a plane park!!!
Apologies if my aviation used words are not in the normal way,
I'm only a interested passenger with great fears for my planned vacation
Only a guess, so don't hold me to it!!
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Most of the B744s will be flying their normal routes, but with tech crew only, and full of freight. Where cabin crew are available for the return, pax will be carried.
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the press releases of the PCCC (and please don't insult my intellignce by repeating the BASSA lie that the whole thing is a stooge of BA
Last edited by ottergirl; 18th Mar 2010 at 10:08.
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747s
Flyerman, you beat me to it.... I believe that there will be some 747s leaving London carrying only the pilots and freight. This permits the return sector to operate as normal since strike protocol suggests that crew down-route at the commencment of strike action should operate back to base....then strike.
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Who is this BASSA who is to be swept away, or shot like a rabid dog, or destroyed etc etc etc.........
Is Mr/Mrs BASSA reading this thread and feeling threatened by physical violence?
If by BASSA, you mean the reps, well that is only a vote away from replacing them. But as votes go, the majority of crew have supported them twice.
Or is it any individual that pays a membership fee to Unite? Are they going to have to be shot like a rabid dog, because they have been "getting away" with their terms and conditions for years.
Or is it a mind set? How do you change that? Is it counselling or just dismissal? Do you get rid of all crew, or have an interview with the salem witch hunters/McCarthyist supporters, to weed out those "god darn commies".
Are you going to ask them not to be a member of a trade union? If they do not agree, then their is a future chance that the Trotskyite inside will rear its head again some day.
It is a three day stoppage. This has made people who are not cabin crew and will not be loosing any money, feel physically sick.
So back to my point, who is BASSA? Once you have identified that, what are you going to do to him, her it? I do suggest that shooting or crushing may be breaking some law or another.
Is Mr/Mrs BASSA reading this thread and feeling threatened by physical violence?
If by BASSA, you mean the reps, well that is only a vote away from replacing them. But as votes go, the majority of crew have supported them twice.
Or is it any individual that pays a membership fee to Unite? Are they going to have to be shot like a rabid dog, because they have been "getting away" with their terms and conditions for years.
Or is it a mind set? How do you change that? Is it counselling or just dismissal? Do you get rid of all crew, or have an interview with the salem witch hunters/McCarthyist supporters, to weed out those "god darn commies".
Are you going to ask them not to be a member of a trade union? If they do not agree, then their is a future chance that the Trotskyite inside will rear its head again some day.
It is a three day stoppage. This has made people who are not cabin crew and will not be loosing any money, feel physically sick.
So back to my point, who is BASSA? Once you have identified that, what are you going to do to him, her it? I do suggest that shooting or crushing may be breaking some law or another.
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discuss why it is that every other department / discipline in BA is against the CC industrial action, to the extent of volunteering in their thousands to support BA
When cabin crew are asked to work in the terminals at times of disruption, they're volunteers. They go in on their days off and they work for nothing. I know - I've done it.
When baggage handlers and loaders etc do the same, they're paid their normal rate.
Now we see people "volunteering" to work as crew. Yet they aren't volunteers are they, really?! They'll be on their usual basic, they'll be paid our overtime and meal allowance rates (I didn't get lunch money when I went to the terminal) and they'll be doing a week of a pretty fun job, visiting some amazing places, staying in some nice hotels without the same level of responsibility as the other crew in the company.
They're not volunteering at all - they're going on a paid jolly.
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For me the simple headline killer facts in this whole issue are: -
BASSA did not actually negotiate (source, court judgement on imposition)
BA therefore left with no alternative but to apply the cost savings in the face of never ending resolution.
No compulsory job losses, just VR which some crew have been awaiting a long time and switches to part time, which many crew have been moaning they couldn’t get in the past. No pay cut.
Small section of CC required to involve themselves in the service, as has been the case with union blessing in Gatwick for some time.
Strike therefore not justified for this issue.
The topping to all that would be false at worst and misleading information at best from BASSA to CC on far too many occasions, therefore clouding the actual issues at hand. (Known falsehoods allowed to fester and propagate on BASSA forum IS BASSA’s responsibility)
The above has now become a major international and political issue that is becoming less and less about cabin crew with an outcome that will affect them more and more.
Silly eh
BASSA did not actually negotiate (source, court judgement on imposition)
BA therefore left with no alternative but to apply the cost savings in the face of never ending resolution.
No compulsory job losses, just VR which some crew have been awaiting a long time and switches to part time, which many crew have been moaning they couldn’t get in the past. No pay cut.
Small section of CC required to involve themselves in the service, as has been the case with union blessing in Gatwick for some time.
Strike therefore not justified for this issue.
The topping to all that would be false at worst and misleading information at best from BASSA to CC on far too many occasions, therefore clouding the actual issues at hand. (Known falsehoods allowed to fester and propagate on BASSA forum IS BASSA’s responsibility)
The above has now become a major international and political issue that is becoming less and less about cabin crew with an outcome that will affect them more and more.
Silly eh
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Eddie
they're going on a paid jolly.
Cabin crew were not given a thought before all this crap, now with heads stuck up above the wall and details revealed the job has been damaged in the public eye forever.
A volunteer is surely someone who works for nowt?
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a major international and political issue
Trouble with 'paid jollies' in this format is you might get shouted at, vomited on, propositioned and your feet will hurt like hell!
Ich bin ein Prooner.
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Perhaps this is worth a thought. Whenever this dispute is resolved, and hopefully things return to a sort of normality, at some time in the future whenever one of the foreign unions now offering support has a conflict, are the C.C. who are about to go on strike prepared to take whatever action may be required to support that foreign union when the call comes?
Because, sure as eggs, one day it will!
Because, sure as eggs, one day it will!
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Ottergirl
You dont agree that this has become international or political?
Unite meeting unions in the US
BA strike discussed in PMQ's
I think they count.
For every issue you can name a bigger one, it doesnt make the others vanish now does it. I'll top Iraq with the fact the sun will explode in a billiion or so years if thats the case..!
Unite meeting unions in the US
BA strike discussed in PMQ's
I think they count.
For every issue you can name a bigger one, it doesnt make the others vanish now does it. I'll top Iraq with the fact the sun will explode in a billiion or so years if thats the case..!
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Hi Snas,
I won't deny - I see my job as a paid jolly.
For 48 hours I get to have a whale of a time in Los Angeles or Singapore or Hong Kong. It's great. But then there's the bit at 4:00am in the morning when you look at your watch and realise there's two hours to go until you get a bit of sleep - this, after you've already been up for the best part of 18 hours becaues it's just impossible to get a good sleep in the middle of the day before a trip.
Then there's the bit when you land in the UK at 6:00am in the morning having been awake for 24 hours or more because you find it impossible to sleep before pickup in New York and with the time change you've been up since 3am local.
Our ground colleagues volunteering to work as crew won't feel the impact of this - people do it when they go on holiday all the time. But doing it week in, week out really takes it out of you.
Then there's the time when you have to defib someone who could quite easily be your own mother, father or grandparent. The time when you have to wrestle a disruptive passenger to the ground and handcuff them, despite being smacked by them and bitten by them, in a way that causes them as little injury as possible.
Yes - this job is a paid jolly, but it's a paid jolly that comes with a hell of a lot of responsibility and plays absolute havok with your body and your personal life.
But I don't need nor want sympathy for that - I signed up for it. What I do want - and hope for - is that the public sees that there's a lot more to this job than meets the eye.
Ask the passengers of the BA038 if we're overpaid. And ask the family of the man whose life was saved by a BA crew in New York recently if we're overpaid.
I won't deny - I see my job as a paid jolly.
For 48 hours I get to have a whale of a time in Los Angeles or Singapore or Hong Kong. It's great. But then there's the bit at 4:00am in the morning when you look at your watch and realise there's two hours to go until you get a bit of sleep - this, after you've already been up for the best part of 18 hours becaues it's just impossible to get a good sleep in the middle of the day before a trip.
Then there's the bit when you land in the UK at 6:00am in the morning having been awake for 24 hours or more because you find it impossible to sleep before pickup in New York and with the time change you've been up since 3am local.
Our ground colleagues volunteering to work as crew won't feel the impact of this - people do it when they go on holiday all the time. But doing it week in, week out really takes it out of you.
Then there's the time when you have to defib someone who could quite easily be your own mother, father or grandparent. The time when you have to wrestle a disruptive passenger to the ground and handcuff them, despite being smacked by them and bitten by them, in a way that causes them as little injury as possible.
Yes - this job is a paid jolly, but it's a paid jolly that comes with a hell of a lot of responsibility and plays absolute havok with your body and your personal life.
But I don't need nor want sympathy for that - I signed up for it. What I do want - and hope for - is that the public sees that there's a lot more to this job than meets the eye.
Ask the passengers of the BA038 if we're overpaid. And ask the family of the man whose life was saved by a BA crew in New York recently if we're overpaid.
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Litebulbs wrote:
BASSA (the current leadership eg. Reps) seem to have followed a course of action that has led them to a situation whereby there 90%+ YES vote for strike action will see WW keep 60%+ of flights operating. BASSA (the Reps) thought it would be like the good old days, 2 days of T1 car park full of tents, stranded pax and TV cameras interviewing anyone they could find before BA caved in.
Well this time they misjudged it and I doubt they're feeling threatened. If they have anything to fear its their own membership next week rather than anything anyone could scribble on this Forum. The current leadership are already 'Swept Away' because even UNITE is willing to dump them to get a settlement.
No one hates crew, no one wants to see crew sold into slavery, but neither do we want to see a few selected individuals IMPOSE militancy on the rest of us. I said impose, that's funny.
Who is this BASSA who is to be swept away, or shot like a rabid dog, or destroyed etc etc etc.........
Is Mr/Mrs BASSA reading this thread and feeling threatened by physical violence?
Is Mr/Mrs BASSA reading this thread and feeling threatened by physical violence?
Well this time they misjudged it and I doubt they're feeling threatened. If they have anything to fear its their own membership next week rather than anything anyone could scribble on this Forum. The current leadership are already 'Swept Away' because even UNITE is willing to dump them to get a settlement.
No one hates crew, no one wants to see crew sold into slavery, but neither do we want to see a few selected individuals IMPOSE militancy on the rest of us. I said impose, that's funny.
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Political yes but only due to proximity of the general election and the Labour funding from UNITE; next year, no-one will give a stuff! International no, we all know that this visiting of other unions is just posturing and game-playing given the laws on secondary picketing. It may feel to us CC, our families and our colleagues in BA, living through this hell, that its the most important thing but in perspective it doesn't feature that high for the rest of the world. Even on the a/c our British customers may mention it in passing but it has never been mentioned to me by anyone outside the UK.
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Edy:
Sounds good to me. I wonder if there is anyone on the dole queue who could be persuaded to sign up?
Yes, I do sincerely respect there are situations like medical incidents, abusive members of the public etc. Not unlike being a class teacher, a shop worker or even a traffic warden, all of whom might fancy a bit of the above 'fun job' for more money than they earn now.
And as for the once in lifetime, if ever, real emergency, it is nothing to joke about. But other staff who use standby and get assigned the jump seat are given 60 seconds 'training' on how to open the doors and let the passengers off first.
Semantics. They are truly 'volunteering' (ie choosing) to undertake the activity And as someone else has already said, you have captured in just two words what many of our customers think the job is - a PJ!
they'll be doing a week of a pretty fun job, visiting some amazing places, staying in some nice hotels
without the same level of responsibility as the other crew in the company.
And as for the once in lifetime, if ever, real emergency, it is nothing to joke about. But other staff who use standby and get assigned the jump seat are given 60 seconds 'training' on how to open the doors and let the passengers off first.
They're not volunteering at all - they're going on a paid jolly.
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With everything thats going on.....e.g. BA preparing for strike,
Union reps travelling all over the place to get support...media talking, passengers talking, everyone talking. Are the people concerned with settling the strike issues at the table talking? are they at least working towards an answer, so that life can get back to normal that people who want to work, work, a business carries on which I imagine is vital to many many people,
including employees, shareholders etc etc I mean I expect there are many big pension investement funds that are invested in BA .. and last but most important the passengers that the airline carries...give them all break,
stop taking the good out of their travel plans...please don't break the airline...too many will suffer in the fall out...
Union reps travelling all over the place to get support...media talking, passengers talking, everyone talking. Are the people concerned with settling the strike issues at the table talking? are they at least working towards an answer, so that life can get back to normal that people who want to work, work, a business carries on which I imagine is vital to many many people,
including employees, shareholders etc etc I mean I expect there are many big pension investement funds that are invested in BA .. and last but most important the passengers that the airline carries...give them all break,
stop taking the good out of their travel plans...please don't break the airline...too many will suffer in the fall out...
Eddy
I agree with a lot you say. The job does have its difficult times, but you knew that when you joined it's part of the job-you are not forced to be cc.
The problem on pay arises when a Purser gets about £700 allowances and long range payments for a 4 day trip to Hgk etc when our competitor, Virgin crew for example only get £240. BA cc costs are too high.
Also the lack of scheduling flexibility, whereby WW crew will not do Shorthaul trips without two local nights off. Recently this meant a Gov VIP charter of a BA 777, which included a european sector,needed three sets of cc to complete the round trip, but only one set of flightcrew.
Result, we can't compete on costs and now Virgin get the work.
The problem on pay arises when a Purser gets about £700 allowances and long range payments for a 4 day trip to Hgk etc when our competitor, Virgin crew for example only get £240. BA cc costs are too high.
Also the lack of scheduling flexibility, whereby WW crew will not do Shorthaul trips without two local nights off. Recently this meant a Gov VIP charter of a BA 777, which included a european sector,needed three sets of cc to complete the round trip, but only one set of flightcrew.
Result, we can't compete on costs and now Virgin get the work.
Last edited by cessnapete; 18th Mar 2010 at 11:06. Reason: accuracy