British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI

[srbrenna]

Originally Posted by Eddy

Thanks for reminding me why I don't participate here!

Please stay! I am astounded by your patience in replying to some posters here. It shows that you are just the sort of person BA needs as CC

Please read Eddy's posts - he has already stated that he tries to see arguments from both sides. That is exactly what he is doing here.

[Andyismyname]

Eddy

Thanks for your patience in fielding a few questions here, from a potentially "hostile audience".

I still cant get my head around why some crew want to strike, seemingly at all costs.

I have heard the "if they change anything the job wont be worth having", and "to send a message to Willie" lines, but had dismissed them as bluster.

It would appear thay you probably commute from Scotland.......if you strike you will lose Staff Travel, for life. Your putting at risk your method of relatively low cost commuting, let alone your job.

You have previously stated that you were on the ground at Virgin Blue, you know that companies can have a different culture, but it either requires hard work from both sides.........or a complete change of staff.

Why are you risking it all........it wont make your CV look any better?

[TopBunk]

Allegedly, the costs of the 103,000? pax who have re-booked or caancelled are £27 million and this has been added to the savings required froim the Cabin Crew budget.

Unite/BASSA not happy bunnies....

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by TopBunk

Allegedly, the costs of the 103,000? pax who have re-booked or caancelled are £27 million and this has been added to the savings required froim the Cabin Crew budget.

Unite/BASSA not happy bunnies....

Problem is that, as with the rest of the savings, BA will be adding this to the savings required anually, not just once and not just during the financial crisis.

[Mariner9]

Allegedly, the costs of the 103,000? pax who have re-booked or caancelled are £27 million and this has been added to the savings required froim the Cabin Crew budget.

Unite/BASSA not happy bunnies....

If true, Blimey! £27 million divided by 13,000 = more than £2K per crew member. Now that would be tough for just about anyone to take regardless of their current pay level. And they're currently upset enough about LHR CSD's having to work a little harder to call a strike......

This whole affair has been disastrous for all BA staff, and the CC in particular. Bassa/Unite have a lot to answer for in my view.

[TopBunk]

Mariner9

It doesn't have to be in cash. Savings can be made in other ways too, such as

• reducing costs/standards of hotels downroute,
• reducing time off downroute
• working to CAP371 vs BA Agreements
• reducing turnaround times in shorthaul meaning fewer standby crews required etc
• removing other restrictive practises

none of the above reduce pay in the pocket.

[Ancient Observer]

Birdspeed. Great post, thank you.

Eddy. Lots of interesting posts. Thank you. Could you get some more CC on her, please, to reduce the impact of the "Telegraph/Mail" reading folk that are already here.

thanks

[draglift]

Talking about savings in other ways... An example

3 days ago a BA flight from LHR to a USA East coast destination had to divert due to bad weather.

It was decided to position the aircraft back empty the following day. Ops needed it back before the night jet ban to avoid use of a night slot.

To achieve this the Captain and copilot agreed to reduce their rest in the hotel from 12 hours to 10. As the cabin crew were passengering home anyway the flight crew requested a cabin crew member work as fire watch and look after them.

It transpired this was not possible as the cabin crew were entitled to 15 hours off even though this was not the second part of a back to back. Consequently the flight crew operated the aircraft empty back to London, just the two of them, no cabin crew. The cabin crew passengered home on the scheduled flight later that day.

This was not the cabin crew's fault at all. But cabin crew need to realise how ridiculous it is that flight crew can have a minimum of 10 hours in a hotel room and operate back, while the cabin crew have to have 15 hours off before they can even passenger back (in Club).

This is just one example of why BA cabin crew are so uneconomical. Some of the cabin crew I speak to in all innocence do not believe that BASSA are particularly militant or that their terms and conditions are so restrictive in certain areas that it paralyses the operation. I do not want the cabin crew to be hammered or lose salary, but I do think the cabin crew flight time and limitations should not be more restrictive than that of the flight crew.
　
　

[Eddy]

This was not the cabin crew's fault at all. But cabin crew need to realise how ridiculous it is that flight crew can have a minimum of 10 hours in a hotel room and operate back, while the cabin crew have to have 15 hours off before they can even passenger back (in Club).

By the same token, though, some cabin crew - myself included (and I'm an ardent fan of flight crew) think that it's ridiculous and verging on unsafe that a pilot can do a Los Angeles / Singapore back-to-back with little more than 24 hours of rest in the middle......

We all have ridiculous rules but the cabin crew ones don't appear to jeopardise safety - infact, they're in place to ensure the opposite. Although granted, sometimes they go too far.

Infact, I did a PHX a wee while back and on the crew bus back to the hotel for pickup we had a First Officer from the Jumbo who was NOT part of our crew. He came on the crew bus in uniform, boarded the plane in uniform, disembarked in London in uniform and I saw him 30 minutes later in the crew centre reporting for his duty.....

My point? I'm not sure. Perhaps it's that some of my colleagues on the flight deck need to realise that they DO get tired and that a tired pilot has the potential of being a dangerous pilot. Cramming your month's work into two weeks is fine as long as you're rested enough to work efficiently.

[Bruce Wayne]

Emm4,

Anyone who thinks that a trade union would not sacrifice a company (and its entire staff) is forgetting Eastern Airlines.

[Human Factor]

Eddy,

The difference is that the CAA Scheme allows a pilot to B2B LA and Singapore, subject to certain rest requirements, in the same way that it allows rest to be reduced such as was done during the aforementioned diversion. Whether you or I think it is safe or not is moot, in the eyes of the law it is.

The same Scheme allows cabin crew to do the same, with some minor variations. The main variation being that cabin crew are generally allowed to work an extra hour beyond flight crew.

However, with reference to the diversion example above, it was the CC working agreements which prevented the cabin crew from operating back, not the CAA Scheme. If the pilots can legally do it, the cabin crew can certainly legally do it.

As far as the individual who positioned to work from PHX is concerned, there are cabin crew with similar commuting arrangements and in the event of an incident, expect the CAA to take an extremely dim view of the arrangement - pilot or cabin crew.

[P-T-Gamekeeper]

Eddy, I'm completely with you on the pre flight rest issue. Many of our colleagues, from both sides of the flight deck door need to have a good read of the CAA guidelines on this issue. Needless to say the issue yo have just described would be frowned upon. This is also a BIG hot potato in the USA now after a crash a couple of years ago cited it as a contributing factor.

[Eddy]

HF, great post, thanks. I still don't think it's safe but as you say, that's moot.

[IYCSWICSWICW]

Eddy, you post well. keep it up. Tiredness can be so debilitating. How do you think this will pan out?

[617sqn]

Cabin crew

Ancient Observer
In post 3323,you asked for more cc to join in.Here I am.
Not sure how much help I will be though as I am a Telegraph reader!!

[Max Angle]

This was not the cabin crew's fault at all.

Hmm, well they were entitled to 15 hours rest but didn't have to take it, if the flight crew could reduce to 10 hours then the cabin crew most certainly could of as well. Working outside ones agreements (but not outside the law) from time to time to keep the show on the road is what the vast majority of airline crews do around the world.

[ArthurScargill]

So, anyone like to predict the outcome of the 'last ditch' talks at UNITE HQ today ?

I notice on the Beeb they have a quote by Woodley saying that 'There are internal battles within BA'. Any truth in this do you reckon ?

[cym]

Think Tony must have misheard - internal battles in BASSA sound much more likely!! And thats prob not to mention the battles going on between BASSA and Unite given the mess they have made of their handling of PR and the impact their behaviour has had on the public perception of Unite in particular and unions in general

[draglift]

In the diversion followed by pax home situation I mentioned above.

The cabin crew were willing to help out. The request was denied at LHR in the murky world between Flight Ops, Cabin Crew ops and BASSA. Not sure which one scuppered it.

[Snas]

The turnout for this could be the first recent indication of the current support for the strike?

BA cabin crew dispute photo opportunity

Also, if this story (link below) relates to the e-mail we all viewed on this site recently detailing the suspended crew stuff I'm surprised that Unite would make it (more) public, I dont think it showed the crew involved in a very good light myself.

Unite publishes BA bullying document / Britain / Home - Morning Star

Naturally you have to consider the source with this one somewhat. A publication that I appeared in in it's hey-day when I was just 6 I'll add I still have the cutting...!