British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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BA Using Ryanair aircraft
British Airways has chartered 3 Ryanair Boeing 737-800s to operate domestic flights from London Gatwick to Edinburgh (3 a Day), Glasgow (3 a Day) and Manchester (4 a Day). All three aircraft will night-stop at Gatwick and will be used on 20,21 & 22 March
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Draglift,
Are you saying that Cabin Crew Management are still involving BASSA in operational decisions about keeping the show on the road after a diversion. Given the current industrial problems and the costs been incurred by the Company because of the threat of IA by BASSA and its parent I am amazed. If a reduced rest was legally possible and the CC involved was prepared to do it, why in the world were the Bassa reps involved. A Management decision to to get the aircraft back ASAP should have been made.
BD
Are you saying that Cabin Crew Management are still involving BASSA in operational decisions about keeping the show on the road after a diversion. Given the current industrial problems and the costs been incurred by the Company because of the threat of IA by BASSA and its parent I am amazed. If a reduced rest was legally possible and the CC involved was prepared to do it, why in the world were the Bassa reps involved. A Management decision to to get the aircraft back ASAP should have been made.
BD
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Eddy/Human
The CAA already take a dim view i can assure you. In my airline we have a variation that allows jumpseating prior to duty with various penalty clauses (unlike BA we recognise our Pilots want to do it, the paxing legs aren't as long as PHX-LHR either).
I wonder what the Union/s view is on such spanish practices....
The CAA already take a dim view i can assure you. In my airline we have a variation that allows jumpseating prior to duty with various penalty clauses (unlike BA we recognise our Pilots want to do it, the paxing legs aren't as long as PHX-LHR either).
I wonder what the Union/s view is on such spanish practices....
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Volunteers in the Terminal
Eddy,
You'll find many departments, including Flt Ops pilots, have worked for free in the terminals during disruption.
Where did you get the idea it was just cabin crew? Bassa perchance?
You'll find many departments, including Flt Ops pilots, have worked for free in the terminals during disruption.
Where did you get the idea it was just cabin crew? Bassa perchance?
Controversial, moi?
The cabin crew were willing to help out. The request was denied at LHR in the murky world between Flight Ops, Cabin Crew ops and BASSA. Not sure which one scuppered it.
In conversation with Rod Eddington when asked about this sort of nonsense he basically said something along the lines of if he could find the individual who agreed to the industrial limits/agreements having such overriding control of the operation.....
Are you saying that Cabin Crew Management are still involving BASSA in operational decisions about keeping the show on the road after a diversion. Given the current industrial problems and the costs been incurred by the Company because of the threat of IA by BASSA and its parent I am amazed. If a reduced rest was legally possible and the CC involved was prepared to do it, why in the world were the Bassa reps involved. A Management decision to to get the aircraft back ASAP should have been made.
People do not know the half of what insiders have known and complained about for many years. WW is finally going to end this nonsense so that BA can effectively compete in our very changed world which is Air Transport.
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Re Write
Quite evidently the LHR WW agreement needs a serious re-write but this would only be an option with a union that cooperates and there would have to be trade offs all over.
Unless of course BA have rewritten the agreement for use in the future already. New fleet perhaps?
The chances of changing things for the legacy crew slim to non-existant.
WW still has the dilemma of what to do with the striking crew whilst retaining the goodwill of non -strikers.
So if the strike goes ahead where does he position himself?
Unless of course BA have rewritten the agreement for use in the future already. New fleet perhaps?
The chances of changing things for the legacy crew slim to non-existant.
WW still has the dilemma of what to do with the striking crew whilst retaining the goodwill of non -strikers.
So if the strike goes ahead where does he position himself?
M.Mouse
I had a similar one, but on a transit, ( pre - ACARS ) but the on board C.C. had mis-interpreted their own rules, which were related to departure ex-UK, not downline disruption. Eventually used the P.A. to explain and ended by saying that the Flt. Crew were prepared to continue to original destination if the C.C. would accompany them ! Collapse of Stout Party.
Of course I was reported to the then T.U.C. for coercing people to work, but I was right in my interpretation of their rules, so that was OK.
( longer story of course, and the situation had arisen because Control Centre had fooled them into departing LHR with a downline promise of relief that they eventually couldn't come up with, I felt sorry for the C.C. but the show went on and no rules were broken )
Best of luck in the coming few days. ( or years ! )
I had a similar one, but on a transit, ( pre - ACARS ) but the on board C.C. had mis-interpreted their own rules, which were related to departure ex-UK, not downline disruption. Eventually used the P.A. to explain and ended by saying that the Flt. Crew were prepared to continue to original destination if the C.C. would accompany them ! Collapse of Stout Party.
Of course I was reported to the then T.U.C. for coercing people to work, but I was right in my interpretation of their rules, so that was OK.
( longer story of course, and the situation had arisen because Control Centre had fooled them into departing LHR with a downline promise of relief that they eventually couldn't come up with, I felt sorry for the C.C. but the show went on and no rules were broken )
Best of luck in the coming few days. ( or years ! )
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I'm a member of BASSA but don't agree with the strike. I'm actually feeling very confused about this and have been thinking on and off if I should strike or not. Yes, you are suppose to do what your union tells you. If the memberships tells you to strike, you should be loyal enough to do it. If you don't agree with the union? The most militant members would probably tell you to resign from the union if you don't strike because you obviously don't share their view of things.
I have decided not to strike after several calls to Crew Care (even they are crew but been fantastic) and Cabin Crew Confidential Line. They told me to do a list and put down "for" and "against" going on a strike and not. Some of my reasons for not striking are:
1. I will lose Staff Travel with no guarantee of getting it back. As a commuter I need it and I'm struggling as it is financially and could not afford to buy full fares. BA is one of 2 companies I can use. Otherwise it would be Ryanair.
2. I report early on the first day of the strike and nobody can say what happens. What if you don't turn up and half an hour later you're getting a message to say hand in your uniform? Other than that, with my confused mind, I don't want to be one of the first to set off the strike.
3. I think BASSA has dealt with this in a less professional way. Looking back at last year when WW and BF all wanted was to talk about different crewing levels and a new disruption agreement and if we agreed to that we wouldn't have New Fleet. Now we're probably getting all of that plus some other stuff?
4. Not getting paid for being on a strike except £30 a day. If you're a crew with 6 years in the company you know what our salary is like. I can't afford that or losing my job.
Some stuff that makes me wanting to strike is I will probably lose my boyfriend because he's striking (second day for him so easier for him to see what the turnout is) and he has been calling strike brakers the s-word for a long time now. I guess that's the price I have to pay. Another thing is other crew saying they don't want to get anywhere near crew crossing the picket line. That's another price I have to pay I guess. It shows what kind of characters they are if they can't accept people have different opinions. I'm not going to stand ceremony to them.
I hear more and more crew are coming in to work for whatever reasons. Either it's true or false but I guess we'll see. When you are one of the first crew on the first day to make that decision it's really difficult and sorry but I don't want to take that decision!
I have decided not to strike after several calls to Crew Care (even they are crew but been fantastic) and Cabin Crew Confidential Line. They told me to do a list and put down "for" and "against" going on a strike and not. Some of my reasons for not striking are:
1. I will lose Staff Travel with no guarantee of getting it back. As a commuter I need it and I'm struggling as it is financially and could not afford to buy full fares. BA is one of 2 companies I can use. Otherwise it would be Ryanair.
2. I report early on the first day of the strike and nobody can say what happens. What if you don't turn up and half an hour later you're getting a message to say hand in your uniform? Other than that, with my confused mind, I don't want to be one of the first to set off the strike.
3. I think BASSA has dealt with this in a less professional way. Looking back at last year when WW and BF all wanted was to talk about different crewing levels and a new disruption agreement and if we agreed to that we wouldn't have New Fleet. Now we're probably getting all of that plus some other stuff?
4. Not getting paid for being on a strike except £30 a day. If you're a crew with 6 years in the company you know what our salary is like. I can't afford that or losing my job.
Some stuff that makes me wanting to strike is I will probably lose my boyfriend because he's striking (second day for him so easier for him to see what the turnout is) and he has been calling strike brakers the s-word for a long time now. I guess that's the price I have to pay. Another thing is other crew saying they don't want to get anywhere near crew crossing the picket line. That's another price I have to pay I guess. It shows what kind of characters they are if they can't accept people have different opinions. I'm not going to stand ceremony to them.
I hear more and more crew are coming in to work for whatever reasons. Either it's true or false but I guess we'll see. When you are one of the first crew on the first day to make that decision it's really difficult and sorry but I don't want to take that decision!
Controversial, moi?
DCW
You will have the utmost sympathy from most decent people and no one will envy you being in the first wave of shows/no shows.
Personally, I think it will be over rapidly and you will have protected YOUR future by attending. Not easy to do for the moral reasons let alone your personal ones.
I am sure many will be interested and I hope not condemn you either way but do you feel able to say which way you voted?
Good luck.
You will have the utmost sympathy from most decent people and no one will envy you being in the first wave of shows/no shows.
Personally, I think it will be over rapidly and you will have protected YOUR future by attending. Not easy to do for the moral reasons let alone your personal ones.
I am sure many will be interested and I hope not condemn you either way but do you feel able to say which way you voted?
Good luck.
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I'm a member of BASSA but don't agree with the strike. I'm actually feeling very confused about this and have been thinking on and off if I should strike or not. Yes, you are suppose to do what your union tells you. If the memberships tells you to strike, you should be loyal enough to do it. If you don't agree with the union? The most militant members would probably tell you to resign from the union if you don't strike because you obviously don't share their view of things.
Well did you vote for or against the strike?
If you voted for it then surely that must have been what you wanted to do and you should strike.
If you voted against, your only option is to resign from BASSA immediatly and come to work.
PS Your boyfriend doesn't sound like a very nice piece of work.
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DCW
DCW! Welcome and a great first post.
As a fellow crew member who is obviously in your position really aswell I FULLY understand what you mean. It is very difficult decision either way really. I voted No as to be honest I thought a strike would be detrimental for us and counter-productive in that we would need to make more savings from our budget (indeed apparently we need to save an ADDITIONAL £27m from our budget on top of what we already needed to save - and both sides can't reach an agreement on that so who knows how they will agree to an additional £27m!)
It isn't easy - I think crewcare gave very good advice with regards to writing a For/Against list. When you are in indecisive or confused that sometimes is your only option. For me alot to lose in my opinion not just for myself but for the community if we all go on strike. Some will see that we have a lot to lose if we don't go on strike. Difference of opinion I suppose!
I can also understand as an ''early reporter'' why it would be more ''scary'' striking. If you are reporting late it is not so bad - but when you are one of the first crew not to turn up - I imagine it would be very daunting (haven't had to do it before!)
There are some crew I have spoken to who ARE striking but have said they have nothing against crew NOT striking as it's everyones opinions etc etc. Everyone has different reasons! Some of these crew are indecisive themselves but are striking because their union tells them to. Unfortunately, there are some who cannot accept that some people are against striking and can see that it is not going to save our jobs! It sounds like your b/f is one of those crew which is a shame. Does he know you are going in? Have you talked about it? Obviously it must be harder for you if this is the situation you are in but you must remember that it is your opinion and any decent b/f will respect that. Similarly friends (most of my friends are strikers - I think and it isn't easy but if they are friends worth having they should respect it - you haven't murdered anyone at the end of the day - it is your legal right NOT to strike!) I can understand people may think that by NOT striking it is threatening our T&Cs but in the same vein - many of us no strikers think that by striking it is threatening our jobs!
Sorry for my long post. Hope your not getting too stressed about it all (which it is easy to as I've been very stressed about it!) and feel free to PM me if you are worried!
Regards
SlideBustle!
As a fellow crew member who is obviously in your position really aswell I FULLY understand what you mean. It is very difficult decision either way really. I voted No as to be honest I thought a strike would be detrimental for us and counter-productive in that we would need to make more savings from our budget (indeed apparently we need to save an ADDITIONAL £27m from our budget on top of what we already needed to save - and both sides can't reach an agreement on that so who knows how they will agree to an additional £27m!)
It isn't easy - I think crewcare gave very good advice with regards to writing a For/Against list. When you are in indecisive or confused that sometimes is your only option. For me alot to lose in my opinion not just for myself but for the community if we all go on strike. Some will see that we have a lot to lose if we don't go on strike. Difference of opinion I suppose!
I can also understand as an ''early reporter'' why it would be more ''scary'' striking. If you are reporting late it is not so bad - but when you are one of the first crew not to turn up - I imagine it would be very daunting (haven't had to do it before!)
There are some crew I have spoken to who ARE striking but have said they have nothing against crew NOT striking as it's everyones opinions etc etc. Everyone has different reasons! Some of these crew are indecisive themselves but are striking because their union tells them to. Unfortunately, there are some who cannot accept that some people are against striking and can see that it is not going to save our jobs! It sounds like your b/f is one of those crew which is a shame. Does he know you are going in? Have you talked about it? Obviously it must be harder for you if this is the situation you are in but you must remember that it is your opinion and any decent b/f will respect that. Similarly friends (most of my friends are strikers - I think and it isn't easy but if they are friends worth having they should respect it - you haven't murdered anyone at the end of the day - it is your legal right NOT to strike!) I can understand people may think that by NOT striking it is threatening our T&Cs but in the same vein - many of us no strikers think that by striking it is threatening our jobs!
Sorry for my long post. Hope your not getting too stressed about it all (which it is easy to as I've been very stressed about it!) and feel free to PM me if you are worried!
Regards
SlideBustle!
Last edited by SlideBustle; 18th Mar 2010 at 21:31. Reason: to highlight something
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I'm a member of BASSA but don't agree with the strike. I'm actually feeling very confused about this and have been thinking on and off if I should strike or not. Yes, you are suppose to do what your union tells you. If the memberships tells you to strike, you should be loyal enough to do it. If you don't agree with the union? The most militant members would probably tell you to resign from the union if you don't strike because you obviously don't share their view of things.
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Picketing
DCW wrote:
Bear in mind that BAA will not allow picketing at the terminals (which is on their property). The pickets will most likely be at Hatton Cross tube station, SW access from the M25, Nene Road (near the Heathrow Police station), the area adjacent to the fire station, and the Bath Road outside T5.
I suggest that you go onto the intranet and search for My journey to and from work. That page gives a lot of information on how you can get to work, including taxis and parking in commercial car parks.
Another thing is other crew saying they don't want to get anywhere near crew crossing the picket line.
I suggest that you go onto the intranet and search for My journey to and from work. That page gives a lot of information on how you can get to work, including taxis and parking in commercial car parks.
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@ DCW
I do read the forum sort of once a week, but rarely post in here...
DCW, I just want you to know you arent the only one feeling that way. I am really anxious about the whole affair and honestly never thought I would be feeling this low, if someone had asked me 2-3 weeks ago.
I am a BASSA member aswell and, like yourself, dont agree with the strike and therefore voted no.
As the strike dates get closer, I have been anxious and really edgy! I have a flight on the 20th and intend to go to work, however I am finding it really frightening to walk into T5 and face up to the possible consequences from my pro-strike colleagues who might be lurking about.
Even though I agree with Openclimbs when he sais if we voted no we should resign from the union, I am admitedly being a coward for having not done it yet as I fear victimisation.
I suppose I am not being strong enough, but it`s the comments like on my last flight from the US back to LHR and the "threats" of what they would do to the strike-breakers once they get to know who they were that somehow scare me.
I do apologise for my badly structured text (and spelling!) but reading your post, DCW, I felt compelled to let you know some of us are really upset too - and I thought I`d get it off my chest as well.
DCW, I just want you to know you arent the only one feeling that way. I am really anxious about the whole affair and honestly never thought I would be feeling this low, if someone had asked me 2-3 weeks ago.
I am a BASSA member aswell and, like yourself, dont agree with the strike and therefore voted no.
As the strike dates get closer, I have been anxious and really edgy! I have a flight on the 20th and intend to go to work, however I am finding it really frightening to walk into T5 and face up to the possible consequences from my pro-strike colleagues who might be lurking about.
Even though I agree with Openclimbs when he sais if we voted no we should resign from the union, I am admitedly being a coward for having not done it yet as I fear victimisation.
I suppose I am not being strong enough, but it`s the comments like on my last flight from the US back to LHR and the "threats" of what they would do to the strike-breakers once they get to know who they were that somehow scare me.
I do apologise for my badly structured text (and spelling!) but reading your post, DCW, I felt compelled to let you know some of us are really upset too - and I thought I`d get it off my chest as well.
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Whether one agrees with the strike or not, nobody but NOBODY should be scared to go to work.
I personally abhor the practice of intimidating people who cross picket lines and I will NOT be engaging in that practice.
Everyone has their own reasons for deciding to work or not and those decisions should be respected.
People who work should respect those who don't, despite the damage they're undoubtedly doing to the company's finances and its reputation.
People who don't work should respect those who do, for they'll have thought long and hard about their decision to report for duty and I'm sure it won't have been an easy decision to make.
I personally abhor the practice of intimidating people who cross picket lines and I will NOT be engaging in that practice.
Everyone has their own reasons for deciding to work or not and those decisions should be respected.
People who work should respect those who don't, despite the damage they're undoubtedly doing to the company's finances and its reputation.
People who don't work should respect those who do, for they'll have thought long and hard about their decision to report for duty and I'm sure it won't have been an easy decision to make.
Mistrust in Management
DutchStar
I was implying nothing to you as my post addressed DFW.
While we are on the case though perhaps your earlier post deserves a comment.
No need to be frightened as you are exercising your normal right to go to work. Forget about any pro-strike colleagues who should be professional enough to leave you alone - if they are not they will be swiftly dealt with.
You should not be subject to any victimisation , but if such action is attempted then BA will look after you and ensure that the perpetrators are investigated and dealt with.
You are right in your supposition in my opinion. You need to have the courage of your convictions to ensure that you carry out actions that in the future you will be proud of. Do not give in to peer pressure - be strong and not weak. Ask yourself "What can these people do to me?"
In a couple of years you will look back and be thankful you made the right decision,
Regards
Exeng
While we are on the case though perhaps your earlier post deserves a comment.
As the strike dates get closer, I have been anxious and really edgy! I have a flight on the 20th and intend to go to work, however I am finding it really frightening to walk into T5 and face up to the possible consequences from my pro-strike colleagues who might be lurking about.
Even though I agree with Openclimbs when he sais if we voted no we should resign from the union, I am admitedly being a coward for having not done it yet as I fear victimisation.
I suppose I am not being strong enough, but it`s the comments like on my last flight from the US back to LHR and the "threats" of what they would do to the strike-breakers once they get to know who they were that somehow scare me.
In a couple of years you will look back and be thankful you made the right decision,
Regards
Exeng
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The reason this strike will probably fail (IMHO) is that it impacts on relatively few crew, there are many on their part time month or week, some on mbtr, maternity , leave etc etc. It takes a lot of guts to not turn up for work and risk everything when you don't know whether your colleagues will be doing the same. It is a very different situation from a factory or a mine say when you know everyone is out.
BTW I don't think I would either and have voted no in the ballots we've had.
BTW I don't think I would either and have voted no in the ballots we've had.
Junior trash
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Not only that, but on Worldwide, with MBTs it will affect many of the same people twice, whilst missing others.
I wonder if the Union rep who has their CSD course is on monday will be in or not?
I wonder if the Union rep who has their CSD course is on monday will be in or not?
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exeng, the only reason I asked you the question was because I wrote about my feelings which are very similar to what DCW described...
I simply wrote how I am feeling, being completely honest here! Call me what you want...yes, I am a grown-up woman who has been flying for 12 years and even though I am going to work on the 20th (just like I said in my previous post) I cant help but feeling really anxious about it!!!
I simply wrote how I am feeling, being completely honest here! Call me what you want...yes, I am a grown-up woman who has been flying for 12 years and even though I am going to work on the 20th (just like I said in my previous post) I cant help but feeling really anxious about it!!!
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Dutchstar and DCW
It is perfectly natural to be uncertain about these decisions - they are not easy. They are however, your decisions. Unions are organisations you join voluntarily, they are therefore by definition something you choose to do. As such they cannot order you to do things. They can tell you, but the decision is yours and yours alone. Take heart that after looking at the pros and cons YOU have decided on your course of action.
The reality of action is never as dire or horrible as one imagines it will be. So hold your heads up, be proud of yourselves and get on with it. Not everyone will agree with you, that is life. If this and the other bulletin boards out there tell you anything it is that there are thousands of opinions - stick with your own and be happy with it. Rest assured on the days you go to work, that after maybe 20 minutes of apprehension that Hotel Mode mentioned, you will have a fantastic trip with like minded people. The atmosphere on those flights will be like nothing you have experienced before. So enjoy the experience.
One final thought. BA has very robust procedures for dealing with bullying and harassment as some crew are just discovering to their cost. These procedures and determination to deal with bullies will not go away when the strike is over, So do not fear what others will do or say after the strike. Deal with them in an effective manner by reporting their behavior and waving them goodbye as they leave to further their career ambitions in non-flying jobs in other companies.
Good Luck
The reality of action is never as dire or horrible as one imagines it will be. So hold your heads up, be proud of yourselves and get on with it. Not everyone will agree with you, that is life. If this and the other bulletin boards out there tell you anything it is that there are thousands of opinions - stick with your own and be happy with it. Rest assured on the days you go to work, that after maybe 20 minutes of apprehension that Hotel Mode mentioned, you will have a fantastic trip with like minded people. The atmosphere on those flights will be like nothing you have experienced before. So enjoy the experience.
One final thought. BA has very robust procedures for dealing with bullying and harassment as some crew are just discovering to their cost. These procedures and determination to deal with bullies will not go away when the strike is over, So do not fear what others will do or say after the strike. Deal with them in an effective manner by reporting their behavior and waving them goodbye as they leave to further their career ambitions in non-flying jobs in other companies.
Good Luck
Last edited by Juan Tugoh; 18th Mar 2010 at 23:14.