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British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI

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British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI

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Old 9th Mar 2010, 18:36
  #2261 (permalink)  
 
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When i talked about VRs i was talking about the 1000-2000 VRs around Christmas time. They were allowed to go so that 'imposition' could be, erm, imposed.
So that will save 1000-2000 crew member costs per annum as from this year so not done and dusted and will come out of the original figure BA was looking for. AND they weren't from LGW (although some may have been).

P.S.
You are right about the confusing bit though.
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 18:53
  #2262 (permalink)  
 
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OK, I think.
There were 1000 VRs, and then there were another 1000-2000 VRs. I missed that being mentioned, probably.
So across the board some 3000 CC were happy to leave [under favourable conditions, one assumes].
Isn't that something like 20% of the BA CC workforce? Or is that just the BASSA CC membership?
There are so many numbers flying around it's hard to keep up.
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 18:58
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maybe we're talking about the same VRs then. I don't recall another big release.
The point i was trying to make is that over 1000 VR left just before Christmas (not from LGW specifically). The cost savings of this will come off the original figure BA was looking at.
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 19:03
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Arthur, that seems to be part of 'fog' surrounding the entire tragedy.

Thanks for the [possible] clarification.
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 19:04
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At least everyone must be pleased that these negotiations are ongoing and a mutually satisfactory result may be gained for the benefit of British Airways as a whole? I would hope so anyway.
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 19:05
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There were 1000 VRs, and then there were another 1000-2000 VRs
I think you may be getting confused!

There were about 1000 VR's and in addition to that, another number took advantage of reduced part time contracts, equating to about another 700 full time heads, making 1700 in total.

The monies saved from that went towards the IFCE budget reduction targets.
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 19:08
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Originally Posted by litebulb
At least everyone must be pleased that these negotiations are ongoing and a mutually satisfactory result may be gained for the benefit of British Airways as a whole? I would hope so anyway.
If they were, we would be. I suspect the reality is far from that.

That a 'satisfactory' result will be the outcome for BA is in not much doubt - I doubt however that it will be satisfactory for BA cabin crew.
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 19:13
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Well, if a resolution is found, then it should go to ballot and then you will see.

If Unite just sign it off though.........
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 19:34
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On the contrary, Litebulbs, none of this is good news for the cabin crew community.

This will go one of either two ways:

1. No deal - so industrial action and a choice of either striking or crossing a picket line.

2. Unite do exactly what they did in the last almost-strike and give us a right royal shafting.
So whereas now we just have crew complement reductions, by cob tomorrow we could have crew complement reductions PLUS a pay cut PLUS changes to existing agreements PLUS any other thing on the list.

The satisfaction will most definitely not be mutual. The losers here are us cabin crew, by virtue of Unite. I will put money on it.

I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 19:42
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Who was it reconfigured Aer Lingus as a low cost airline again?
This goes off-topic, but this point really does need to be nailed since it keeps being repeated in this thread. There seems to be a view that the Aer Lingus problems are somehow the fault of Walsh. His actions are in fact the reason EI exist at all. The view that they somehow exist in a vacuum is some distance from the truth. His policies were vital to stop EVERYONE losing their jobs and the airline going pop, it was that bad a situation.

To suggest that the job losses and struggles of this carrier would not have happened otherwise is simply wrong. They would in all probability have collapsed.

Apologies mods, but various people keep saying this.
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 19:43
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Thank you, Top Bunk. Part of the fog is, of course, how many CC are part-time [and at what %ge?] and how many are full-time. I suspect any realistic calculation is actually impossible. That also seems to be a major complicating factor.
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 19:46
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HiFlyer

If it goes to a ballot, crew will choose.
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 19:56
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Litebulbs, I understand the emotion involved here. But what percentage of overall CC will choose? And what percentage of those are full-time?

There could to be a perception that some are not exactly 'fully committed' to the job anyway. Is that completely wrong?

I can understand that personal circumstances can dictate how big a %ge of time can be committed to BA [I wish I'd had a job like that]. However, in the overall scheme of things, shouldn't the ballot vote also reflect the %ge of time committed to the company in the first place? In other words, you work on a 50% contract, you get 50% of a vote. Or is that an unreal perspective? I'm only asking.
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 20:01
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MPN11

What an excellent post and I wonder if that has ever been asked before? As to an answer, I have absolutely no idea, but what a debate that would be.
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 20:20
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Litebulbs,

We have been balloted about striking over imposition, and the result was yes.

Unless the imposition is removed, how can they re-ballot?

I am BA Cabin Crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 20:27
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Any ballot to accept or reject whatever offer is put forward should surely be put to all crew, not just members of UNITE, as it affects all CC in my opinion. Is this likely to happen though?

Regards
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 20:35
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HiFlyer,

Valid point. I suppose that all it would take is one crew member to be reinstated on one route, then it would be a negotiated settlement, rather than imposition.

Binsleepen,

Collective bargaining gives you the legal right to vote. If you are not in, you have no voice, with regard to a vote. That is the difference between negotiation and effective consultation.
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 20:40
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If the union's 'last minute' deal appeals to BA, and there is no strike action, where does this leave BA CC?
Will you then be content?
Or feel hard done by?
If so, by whom?
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 20:56
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Lightbulbs

Collective bargaining gives you the legal right to vote. If you are not in, you have no voice, with regard to a vote. That is the difference between negotiation and effective consultation.
Thats a bit rich considering BASSA has proven unable to either negotiate or carry out effective consultation. If you are unable to vote it still seems that the union should negotiate on behalf of all personnel in that work unit. A government governs for the whole country not just the 35% who voted for it.

If I were BA I would run a parallel vote for all CC. They seem to have a better idea of the concerns of CC than BASSA and they certainly have a vested interest in the opinions of all.

Regards
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 21:02
  #2280 (permalink)  
 
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Binsleepen

There is no "bit rich" about it. It is law with regard to collective bargaining.
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