British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
Have recently finished the '3-day' pilots cabin crew course. I was undecided about doing the course until the really nasty and unfounded garbage started spouting from bassaland! The conduct of some of these people is WELL below the gutter. If these horrendously vile people get sacked it will be a big plus for ALL of us that fly
The SEP folk are doing a great job in rather trying circumstances, but common-sense means that line-trainers are not being used to train the pilots. WW is obviously really going for it now. We were informed that the training is now ramped up to a course EVERY day.
By my reckoning that could mean over 500 pilots trained up and some of them are also being trained up as SCCMs. Mixed with the other airline volunteers doing their courses, the returning crew onto temporary courses and those 'enlightened' crew that come to work....... a good part of the operation will be able to operate.
On a positive note - I am really pleased that I have a MUCH better understanding of what goes on behind the flight deck door. It will help me appreciate better what the crew are doing.
I know it was a cramming course, due to pilots already being conversant with SEP, but I do not remember working so hard for the 3 days of groundschool and the computer pre-learning.
For those uninitiated that think all the cabin crew do is serve tea and coffee - THINK AGAIN.
The SEP folk are doing a great job in rather trying circumstances, but common-sense means that line-trainers are not being used to train the pilots. WW is obviously really going for it now. We were informed that the training is now ramped up to a course EVERY day.
By my reckoning that could mean over 500 pilots trained up and some of them are also being trained up as SCCMs. Mixed with the other airline volunteers doing their courses, the returning crew onto temporary courses and those 'enlightened' crew that come to work....... a good part of the operation will be able to operate.
On a positive note - I am really pleased that I have a MUCH better understanding of what goes on behind the flight deck door. It will help me appreciate better what the crew are doing.
I know it was a cramming course, due to pilots already being conversant with SEP, but I do not remember working so hard for the 3 days of groundschool and the computer pre-learning.
For those uninitiated that think all the cabin crew do is serve tea and coffee - THINK AGAIN.
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Re JazyKex post on page 1 of this threat where he states that cabin crew are concerned that there are no binding, written reassurances regarding New Fleet and it's potential impact on our incomes.
The reason there are, at this stage, no binding, written reassurances is that BASSA/UNITE REFUSE TO DISCUSS THEM IN ANY MEANINGFUL WAY.
Reassurance1: Fixed monthly payment: Fair idea and because part of agreement on pay, would be contractual. Generally rubbished by BASSA/UNITE in their communications - still on offer by BA - if only BASSA/UNITE would cross the Ts and dot the Is.
Reassurance2: A formula for transfering work/routes as crew leave existing fleets and New Fleet grows (Good trips = A, Middling trips = B, Poor trips = C - Transfer trips in rotational order A, then B, then C, - both fleets have fair mix of work - offered as possible solution by Leadership team in the summer - BASSA wouldn't even discuss it and as far as I remember I've never even seen it mentioned in any UNITE communication. In fact when I mention it to other crew, few if any even know about it.
UTTER DISGRACE. I pay (or rather I used to, before this month) union subscriptions so that my representatives can look at, communicate and nogociate ALL possible options that might benefit me, NOT ignore/rubbish/discredit them because it doesn't fit in with their own agenda (read: reduced membership fees from poorer paid crew/idealogical hatred of Willie Walsh/infightling and powerstruggles within Unite)
I'm crew myself, I love the majority of my colleagues, but I just hope they wake up soon to just what a scandal BASSA/Unite's behaviour has been and the spell cast over them by this discreditted organisation finally gets broken.
The reason there are, at this stage, no binding, written reassurances is that BASSA/UNITE REFUSE TO DISCUSS THEM IN ANY MEANINGFUL WAY.
Reassurance1: Fixed monthly payment: Fair idea and because part of agreement on pay, would be contractual. Generally rubbished by BASSA/UNITE in their communications - still on offer by BA - if only BASSA/UNITE would cross the Ts and dot the Is.
Reassurance2: A formula for transfering work/routes as crew leave existing fleets and New Fleet grows (Good trips = A, Middling trips = B, Poor trips = C - Transfer trips in rotational order A, then B, then C, - both fleets have fair mix of work - offered as possible solution by Leadership team in the summer - BASSA wouldn't even discuss it and as far as I remember I've never even seen it mentioned in any UNITE communication. In fact when I mention it to other crew, few if any even know about it.
UTTER DISGRACE. I pay (or rather I used to, before this month) union subscriptions so that my representatives can look at, communicate and nogociate ALL possible options that might benefit me, NOT ignore/rubbish/discredit them because it doesn't fit in with their own agenda (read: reduced membership fees from poorer paid crew/idealogical hatred of Willie Walsh/infightling and powerstruggles within Unite)
I'm crew myself, I love the majority of my colleagues, but I just hope they wake up soon to just what a scandal BASSA/Unite's behaviour has been and the spell cast over them by this discreditted organisation finally gets broken.
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Beagle
good post!
what really continues to amaze me is that the majority of cabin crew don't ask these questions of their reps and each other.
Can they not see that Bassa are not discussing any change, are lying about their conduct during the meetings, and leading the crew down a dangerous road of belligerence and bullying.
Yes they have made some poorly thought out proposals that are temporary, and less than half what BA are looking to save, but surely if the union tried to make the savings in a serious way it wouldn't be too difficult.
Only then will BA stop seeing Bassa as a clear danger to the future of BA.
The level of hypocrisy is breathtaking.
They can use foul language and name calling. Threaten to poison and damage property. Pass the names of XXXXs , for what can only be nefarious reasons.
Yet if BA say or write anything to present their side , or to encourage crew to consider not voting yes ----- they are branded as bullies and are reported to the union or Safecall.
Nothing BA do will be able to stop the endemic distrust throughout crew ranks. Their only choice is to sweep clean, and start again.
good post!
what really continues to amaze me is that the majority of cabin crew don't ask these questions of their reps and each other.
Can they not see that Bassa are not discussing any change, are lying about their conduct during the meetings, and leading the crew down a dangerous road of belligerence and bullying.
Yes they have made some poorly thought out proposals that are temporary, and less than half what BA are looking to save, but surely if the union tried to make the savings in a serious way it wouldn't be too difficult.
Only then will BA stop seeing Bassa as a clear danger to the future of BA.
The level of hypocrisy is breathtaking.
They can use foul language and name calling. Threaten to poison and damage property. Pass the names of XXXXs , for what can only be nefarious reasons.
Yet if BA say or write anything to present their side , or to encourage crew to consider not voting yes ----- they are branded as bullies and are reported to the union or Safecall.
Nothing BA do will be able to stop the endemic distrust throughout crew ranks. Their only choice is to sweep clean, and start again.
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I don't believe that Willie set out with the intention of "destroying" Bassa.
But it has become obvious to everyone that this dangerous and deluded bunch of power crazy individuals, and their gang of sycophants, will have to be beaten comprehensively to allow BA to move towards a successful future.
These people don't care about their members, or BA, in any meaningful way.
But it has become obvious to everyone that this dangerous and deluded bunch of power crazy individuals, and their gang of sycophants, will have to be beaten comprehensively to allow BA to move towards a successful future.
These people don't care about their members, or BA, in any meaningful way.
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Volunteer crew
I have just volunteered to work through the "possible" strike.
I say possible as only time will tell how many will have the guts to stand up for what they believe in and strike.
I did feel a bit scared for a minute.Then I remembered my daughter coming home from school in tears saying she was being bullied.
I was livid.I told the head teacher to sort it out as she was not going to be intimidated.
The meeting was interesting as it was the chair of governors daughter doing the bullying.In her eyes she was above the law.
Turns out she's not!
Different rules in the playground now.
I am an adult and I refuse to be bullied.
I have the guts to stand by my beliefs.Do you?
I say possible as only time will tell how many will have the guts to stand up for what they believe in and strike.
I did feel a bit scared for a minute.Then I remembered my daughter coming home from school in tears saying she was being bullied.
I was livid.I told the head teacher to sort it out as she was not going to be intimidated.
The meeting was interesting as it was the chair of governors daughter doing the bullying.In her eyes she was above the law.
Turns out she's not!
Different rules in the playground now.
I am an adult and I refuse to be bullied.
I have the guts to stand by my beliefs.Do you?
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Waterside - not at all, we will all know the outcome in due course.
Now how will you react if the judgement is that the changes are non contractual?
Take it you agree that impossition is what the ballot is all about???
Now how will you react if the judgement is that the changes are non contractual?
Take it you agree that impossition is what the ballot is all about???
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I booked my flights for my holiday in March with BA.
I won't be intimidated into booking with another airline: the company needs more of us to affirm our support for the standard that is BA.
I won't be intimidated into booking with another airline: the company needs more of us to affirm our support for the standard that is BA.
Thank-you,
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I booked my flights for my holiday in March with BA.
I won't be intimidated into booking with another airline: the company needs more of us to affirm our support for the standard that is BA.
Thank-you,
I won't be intimidated into booking with another airline: the company needs more of us to affirm our support for the standard that is BA.
Thank-you,
You'll be guaranteed service with a smile from all of us on board, that's a promise.
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Does BA's announced operating profit,put the current negotiations in a new light?The fight for survival,seems to have elapsed.maybe the cabin crew do not now have to conceed so many benefits to help the company survive the economic downturn.Airbus executives stated at the singapore airshow that they expect passenger numbers to return to pre-economic downturn levels this year,therefore increasing demand significantly.
combined with oil at $75 a barrel,as opposed to $140 a year ago,all is looking well for the commercial airline market.
maybe BA and the unions can negotiate a sensible resolution to the current dispute,benefitting both employees and the company.
lets hope common sense prevails.
combined with oil at $75 a barrel,as opposed to $140 a year ago,all is looking well for the commercial airline market.
maybe BA and the unions can negotiate a sensible resolution to the current dispute,benefitting both employees and the company.
lets hope common sense prevails.
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Does BA's announced operating profit,put the current negotiations in a new light?The fight for survival,seems to have elapsed.maybe the cabin crew do not now have to conceed so many benefits to help the company survive the economic downturn.Airbus executives stated at the singapore airshow that they expect passenger numbers to return to pre-economic downturn levels this year,therefore increasing demand significantly.
combined with oil at $75 a barrel,as opposed to $140 a year ago,all is looking well for the commercial airline market
combined with oil at $75 a barrel,as opposed to $140 a year ago,all is looking well for the commercial airline market
Oh, other than
- collapse in transatlantic premium yield
- price of oil set to rise due to economic recovery (more demand, 'finite' resource, higher price)
- aging, uncompetitive fleet
- aircraft configuration inflexible, relying on "the money run"
- inflexible and uneconomic manpower arrangements
- excessive taxation of air travel in home market
- inflexible operations at main hub airport
- aggressive competition on all routes (European, Asia, Down under, North Atlantic)
- massive pension deficit
- challenging but necessary merger yet to occur.
Yep, rosy.
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Bermuda triangle,
We are so far away from being a profitable airline - fuel 2-3 years ago was $40/barrel, we were selling club seats to the financial services industry at huge prices, everyone had cheap credit and flew everywhere.
Today fuel is at $70/barrel, club seats are being sold for peanuts to retain market share, travel agents are refusing to sell BA tickets, the recession is expected to double dip after a 0.1% 'recovery', our competitors have a cost base way below ours, we are losing best part of £600m this year and Britain is expected to be the last of the major economies to recover.
We made an operating profit because cuts have been made by the majority of us, (but not some). But the operating profit means nothing if we're losing millions overall. It's still millions leaving the business! We did still make a major pre tax loss, the good news is that it wasn't as horrendous as it could have been.
We still have to learn that we will never get back to the credit boom days of 2-3 years ago, when our inefficiencies could be tolerated because the market would pay our inflated prices.
Today the market won't pay, and nor will it tomorrow, or next year. The next boom may be 15 - 20 years+ away, and we have to cut our cloth accordingly.
We can't afford to pay 100% over the market average for anything - fuel, aircraft, IT support, sales teams, pilots or even cabin crew. Some major changes have to occur to make the business fit for the next 5 years, and I'm afraid the old school industrial structure of IFS is ripe for a total rebuild, from top to bottom.
That's what's happening now, for both short and long term business reasons.
We are so far away from being a profitable airline - fuel 2-3 years ago was $40/barrel, we were selling club seats to the financial services industry at huge prices, everyone had cheap credit and flew everywhere.
Today fuel is at $70/barrel, club seats are being sold for peanuts to retain market share, travel agents are refusing to sell BA tickets, the recession is expected to double dip after a 0.1% 'recovery', our competitors have a cost base way below ours, we are losing best part of £600m this year and Britain is expected to be the last of the major economies to recover.
We made an operating profit because cuts have been made by the majority of us, (but not some). But the operating profit means nothing if we're losing millions overall. It's still millions leaving the business! We did still make a major pre tax loss, the good news is that it wasn't as horrendous as it could have been.
We still have to learn that we will never get back to the credit boom days of 2-3 years ago, when our inefficiencies could be tolerated because the market would pay our inflated prices.
Today the market won't pay, and nor will it tomorrow, or next year. The next boom may be 15 - 20 years+ away, and we have to cut our cloth accordingly.
We can't afford to pay 100% over the market average for anything - fuel, aircraft, IT support, sales teams, pilots or even cabin crew. Some major changes have to occur to make the business fit for the next 5 years, and I'm afraid the old school industrial structure of IFS is ripe for a total rebuild, from top to bottom.
That's what's happening now, for both short and long term business reasons.
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bermudatriangle
An interesting post. Not too much as been debated about where BA are financially today, after the many pages on the speculated £1b loss over the last two years, previously.
This last quarter could be interesting too, if Unite win the court case and this years final results are more promising than forcast. Would the SOSR be as defendable for contractual changes, if and it is quite a big if, BA return to profitablity earlier than expected.
And that pension overpayment of £1.12b off of the bottom line over the last three years?
This last quarter could be interesting too, if Unite win the court case and this years final results are more promising than forcast. Would the SOSR be as defendable for contractual changes, if and it is quite a big if, BA return to profitablity earlier than expected.
And that pension overpayment of £1.12b off of the bottom line over the last three years?
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As you know, I am crew and will work through the strike, but, with regard to the loss of staff travel for those who don't come to work - Wille says that the strike will cost the business a lot and the costs will have to be recovered from elsewhere - how does staff travel cost the business any money? I am sure it must somewhere, but cannot see how?