British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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Observations.
As a longish time retired cabin crew member who flew with BEA/BA for 39 years both at LHR and the regions, I maintain a real interest in BA, and have many friends who still fly both sides of the cockpit door, and who work on the ground at Heathrow. I have been following this thread for a few months now, but only now decided to contribute as things seem to be coming to a head.
Firstly, BASSA have a long history of 'NO, now what's the question', indeed in the mid 70's I recall being told to shut up at a meeting at LHR when I suggested there could be a better way of dealing with a certain issue, as "confrontation was the only way to resolve issues with the Management", but as long as BA was prepared to throw money at a problem when pushed, you can't really blame the mindset. (The whole setting up of Shuttle springs to mind, as well as the large sums earned at LGW by BEA Airtours crew when this charter arm of the airline was created; No crew for a flight?, turn the next incoming one round by paying them a days overtime and double allowances!).
Many managers, heads of cabin services, chief executives tried to change this, but history indicates that when pushed against the IR wall, most gave in.
Now however the situation has dramatically changed, with a CEO who has a mandate to reduce costs across the airline, a board prepared to back him, and an econonomic reality which means if he fails, there is a real danger BA could go out of business.
Sadly I believe BASSA has failed to adapt to these new realities, and should have been more proactive in engaging both with CC89 and IFE to come to agreement last year. The Christmas strike threat was a major disaster for the union, as there is no public support for their stance, and Mr Walsh is the first CEO to have real contingency plans to reduce the effect of any strike action, a first in my memory.
The only way forward is real, genuine consultation without posturing, but I fear this is too late for all concerned. The Unite leader does not help with his 1970's style of confrontation to the media, and this, together with BASSA's cult like hold over many of it's members and Mr Walsh's determination as I see it to reduce the power of BASSA over the daily operation, also bodes ill for a peaceful resolution. I am no fan of his, given that the regions have no BA presence and so many lives were changed as a result of his decision to shut down those bases, but it does indicate he has the stomach to make the tough decision if the business is stronger for it.
As regards the future, my experience says crew best relate to managers they know and respect. Too many have never flown as crew, and although of course you don't have to have done the job to manage those doing it, in crew eyes it does help. I cannot tell you how many times I have spoken to crew, who moving to London would say, " I have never met my manager, or I have had 3 managers in the last 4 years" or words similar. When I first started flying in 1968, I had the same boss for 4 years, and this only changed when I moved bases, where the manager I had there was in place for many years until he retired. This led to a building up of respect and trust on both sides. We did have our IR issues in the regions, but they were mainly resolved peacefully, as the local BASSA reps knew the people sitting the other side of the table, and business could be done.
Finally I wish all of you involved with this a speedy resolution, but I do fear for you guys. Remember, and I am sure it has been posted here before, 'Jaw Jaw is better than War War.'
Firstly, BASSA have a long history of 'NO, now what's the question', indeed in the mid 70's I recall being told to shut up at a meeting at LHR when I suggested there could be a better way of dealing with a certain issue, as "confrontation was the only way to resolve issues with the Management", but as long as BA was prepared to throw money at a problem when pushed, you can't really blame the mindset. (The whole setting up of Shuttle springs to mind, as well as the large sums earned at LGW by BEA Airtours crew when this charter arm of the airline was created; No crew for a flight?, turn the next incoming one round by paying them a days overtime and double allowances!).
Many managers, heads of cabin services, chief executives tried to change this, but history indicates that when pushed against the IR wall, most gave in.
Now however the situation has dramatically changed, with a CEO who has a mandate to reduce costs across the airline, a board prepared to back him, and an econonomic reality which means if he fails, there is a real danger BA could go out of business.
Sadly I believe BASSA has failed to adapt to these new realities, and should have been more proactive in engaging both with CC89 and IFE to come to agreement last year. The Christmas strike threat was a major disaster for the union, as there is no public support for their stance, and Mr Walsh is the first CEO to have real contingency plans to reduce the effect of any strike action, a first in my memory.
The only way forward is real, genuine consultation without posturing, but I fear this is too late for all concerned. The Unite leader does not help with his 1970's style of confrontation to the media, and this, together with BASSA's cult like hold over many of it's members and Mr Walsh's determination as I see it to reduce the power of BASSA over the daily operation, also bodes ill for a peaceful resolution. I am no fan of his, given that the regions have no BA presence and so many lives were changed as a result of his decision to shut down those bases, but it does indicate he has the stomach to make the tough decision if the business is stronger for it.
As regards the future, my experience says crew best relate to managers they know and respect. Too many have never flown as crew, and although of course you don't have to have done the job to manage those doing it, in crew eyes it does help. I cannot tell you how many times I have spoken to crew, who moving to London would say, " I have never met my manager, or I have had 3 managers in the last 4 years" or words similar. When I first started flying in 1968, I had the same boss for 4 years, and this only changed when I moved bases, where the manager I had there was in place for many years until he retired. This led to a building up of respect and trust on both sides. We did have our IR issues in the regions, but they were mainly resolved peacefully, as the local BASSA reps knew the people sitting the other side of the table, and business could be done.
Finally I wish all of you involved with this a speedy resolution, but I do fear for you guys. Remember, and I am sure it has been posted here before, 'Jaw Jaw is better than War War.'
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Sky News reporting that BA has asked For an Extension To Strike Talks!
BA Strike Talks: Time Running Out To Reach A Deal Before Cabin Crew Walk Out | Business | Sky News
BA Strike Talks: Time Running Out To Reach A Deal Before Cabin Crew Walk Out | Business | Sky News
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So what has Unite put on the table, or taken off the table, that means BA should listen?
Interesting.
The imposition will stand, but is BA going to allow Unite/Bassa to save face by putting the extra member back on a select few flights?
My personal preference is "strike and be darned", but I do understand that there are many Cabin Crew hoping for a settlement of some sort.
Interesting.
The imposition will stand, but is BA going to allow Unite/Bassa to save face by putting the extra member back on a select few flights?
My personal preference is "strike and be darned", but I do understand that there are many Cabin Crew hoping for a settlement of some sort.
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OLDFLYBOY said
Your post is IMHO a very well written summary of where things stand today.
However, 'not knowing who my manager is' when you are one of 10000 cabin crew at LHR sums up what has gone wrong.
So, how does BA get a well-paid senior crew member to give up flying and become a lower-paid junior manager?
Their CSD on the day is their 'manager' and that manager is different (and manages differently) with every flight.
Rover90 gives his/her version of what a ground crew manager is supposed to do: sort out scheduling problems.
So, if the SCCM manages the crew member on the day and the crew manager manages the gripes with scheduling, who is trusted by the CC to drive through the radical changes needed to drag BA screaming and kicking into the 21st Century?
..........my experience says crew best relate to managers they know and respect. Too many have never flown as crew, and although of course you don't have to have done the job to manage those doing it, in crew eyes it does help.
Your post is IMHO a very well written summary of where things stand today.
However, 'not knowing who my manager is' when you are one of 10000 cabin crew at LHR sums up what has gone wrong.
So, how does BA get a well-paid senior crew member to give up flying and become a lower-paid junior manager?
Their CSD on the day is their 'manager' and that manager is different (and manages differently) with every flight.
Rover90 gives his/her version of what a ground crew manager is supposed to do: sort out scheduling problems.
So, if the SCCM manages the crew member on the day and the crew manager manages the gripes with scheduling, who is trusted by the CC to drive through the radical changes needed to drag BA screaming and kicking into the 21st Century?
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The imposition will stand, but is BA going to allow Unite/Bassa to save face by putting the extra member back on a select few flights?
I wouldn't be too happy if my union had managed to negotiate from just new crew levels to new crew levels and less money.
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Deadline 1200hrs Tomorrow!!! What a shambles, but maybe not. I smell another elephant type trap for the UNITE behemoth.
GF
GF
Last edited by IYCSWICSWICW; 9th Mar 2010 at 15:46. Reason: To remove a bit of knee-jerk nonsense
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spindoctor:
The pay cut may not be part of the package.
Remember it was Unite/BASSA that kept speaking of pay cuts for Cabin Crew...they weren't in BA's proposals. (If I'm incorrect regarding this would someone please feel free to slap my post around).
As all things can come on the table in negotiations we will probably have to wait until tomorrow for more information unless BASSA shocks me and actually does something they told their members they were going to do.
The pay cut may not be part of the package.
Remember it was Unite/BASSA that kept speaking of pay cuts for Cabin Crew...they weren't in BA's proposals. (If I'm incorrect regarding this would someone please feel free to slap my post around).
As all things can come on the table in negotiations we will probably have to wait until tomorrow for more information unless BASSA shocks me and actually does something they told their members they were going to do.
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L337:
Not necessarily so.
As someone who has been through a large number of mediations, settlement conferences, etc., there are times when one side will ask, due to anticipated objections from clients, etc., for the other to request a continuance, extension, etc..
Its quite possible that both parties wished for more time but that BASSA/Unite asked that the request come from BA for purposes of dealing with their membership.
Not necessarily so.
As someone who has been through a large number of mediations, settlement conferences, etc., there are times when one side will ask, due to anticipated objections from clients, etc., for the other to request a continuance, extension, etc..
Its quite possible that both parties wished for more time but that BASSA/Unite asked that the request come from BA for purposes of dealing with their membership.
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Every Day Counts
Willie knows that each day that goes by means
a. He can crew two extra 777 services with Vol Crew
b. He knows more accurately which days a strike can fall.
c. It looks like he's trying hard to find a negotiated solution.(Even if he doesn't care anymore)
a. He can crew two extra 777 services with Vol Crew
b. He knows more accurately which days a strike can fall.
c. It looks like he's trying hard to find a negotiated solution.(Even if he doesn't care anymore)
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BAAlltheway
Call me naive, but I was shocked reading your post ref your SIN-LHR flight! I have been flying for over 12yrs and thought I had seen it all,
when it comes to lazy, unprofessional and disrespectful crew...but this episode makes me speechless and is an embarrassment to the cabin crew community!!! You should have reported it to BA.
when it comes to lazy, unprofessional and disrespectful crew...but this episode makes me speechless and is an embarrassment to the cabin crew community!!! You should have reported it to BA.
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You are a crafty old fox, and I can see why you call yourself Diplome......
Sorry, young vixen?
Last edited by PaddyMiguel; 9th Mar 2010 at 15:54. Reason: agesit, sexist
L337,
Absolute tosh.
WW is just pulling the trigger.
He owes it to the rest of us who HAVE already contributed to ensure that the cabin crew community also make their contribution.
Once again - why should a bunch of very senior, almost all L/H, CSDs screw up everything for 'the workers'!!!!!!!
Absolute tosh.
WW is just pulling the trigger.
He owes it to the rest of us who HAVE already contributed to ensure that the cabin crew community also make their contribution.
Once again - why should a bunch of very senior, almost all L/H, CSDs screw up everything for 'the workers'!!!!!!!
