British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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Most cabin crew would not take an enhanced severance package.They like to winge and complain that is part of their culture.The die hards haven't got what it takes to move on.
If i was so unhappy in my job about the way my employer treated me i would do something about it and move on with my life .They know they have it good the sad thing is i do blame BA they have pampered crew for to long. WW should introduce New Fleet asap bring in fresh talent from the outside especially SCCM's. Weed out the rot they have had it too good for too long.They don't seem to be accountable for their poor performance and constant complaining.
Dependency days,part time contracts,leave/lieu days,a good salary,staff travel benifits,seeing the world,...What more do they want,nothing is ever good enough and it never will be .As i have said here before you could give a cabin crew member ten grand cash and they would call up BASSA and complain because it does not have a big red ribbon wrapped round it.Sadly that's what we are dealing with .Disclaimer lol. Not all cabin crew are like this but i would say most are .
If i was so unhappy in my job about the way my employer treated me i would do something about it and move on with my life .They know they have it good the sad thing is i do blame BA they have pampered crew for to long. WW should introduce New Fleet asap bring in fresh talent from the outside especially SCCM's. Weed out the rot they have had it too good for too long.They don't seem to be accountable for their poor performance and constant complaining.
Dependency days,part time contracts,leave/lieu days,a good salary,staff travel benifits,seeing the world,...What more do they want,nothing is ever good enough and it never will be .As i have said here before you could give a cabin crew member ten grand cash and they would call up BASSA and complain because it does not have a big red ribbon wrapped round it.Sadly that's what we are dealing with .Disclaimer lol. Not all cabin crew are like this but i would say most are .
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BABBS2010 wrote:
Unfortunately, BA needs £140m and the other proposals by BASSA increases costs. If BA accepted BASSA's proposals, the company would lose even more money and could go under.
We don't want more pay, we have offered a pay freeze and temporary pay reduction and meal rate freeze which have all been refused by BA. These alone would have saved BA around 55 Million quid.
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The proposals that BA and Unite have put forward recently are not all that much different to what they both proposed last June/July.
BAs proposal in the summer was largely like their ''approach 2 Flexifleet'' proposal they have now.
Some of them were;
-No basic or variable increase for 2 years (if you have a basic pay of less then £14,500 you still get increment rises)
-Fixed monthly travel payment based on the average of NON-MEAL allowances for both fleets (so box payments, long day, overtime, CAT, early report etc) We would still have the same meal payments as now.
-All new recruits would join Eurofleet, Worldwide at LHR or LGWSF, so same as now, there would be no new fleet however we would have to make changes
-New crew complements very much like what was imposed in November. No one down payments
-Operational flexibility for all rosters (the only one area I really had major hang ups on and still do)
-No double nights off on WW
-1 day off less on EF
-on working days up to 5, crew can work 'til 2200 before day off instead of the current 2100 for up to 4, 2000 for 5,6,7 day blocks
-single supervisor and crew complements like they have now
All future crew, transfers, part-time offers and future promotions would be on a new contract with new pay and conditions but would join on current fleets.
BASSA/Unite proposal;
-proposed a deal mirroring the pilot’s deal exactly with a 2.61% reduction in incremental pay. With an equivalent agreed share scheme to reward crew for this contribution in 2011 and 2012
-New disruption agreement
-Middle East back to backs launched (how that would save money I don't know???)
-Purser-Main crew swap on 767,777,747 aircraft. on longhaul ''premium purser'' will be introduced. So the PSR would be in charge of both premium cabins, would work in just one, with main crew working in the other one.
-Single supervisor on shorthaul (oh dear - many crew have gone in a tizz and are angry at BA for this, but it was Unite who proposed it on the 767!)
-EF to operate all 767 flights including longhaul 767s
-Finish time on EF to change to 2200
-Purser-Main crew swap at LGW (they have already given up alot but here BASSA are just letting LGW have 1 less PSR again than LHR, but LHR crew whinge that they are hard done by after the impositions with 1 PSR more than LGW still!)
That's what I remember. Anyone remember anymore post it here!
(DISCLAIMER The above post represents my own personal viewpoint and opinions and in no way the opinions of BA my employer)
BAs proposal in the summer was largely like their ''approach 2 Flexifleet'' proposal they have now.
Some of them were;
-No basic or variable increase for 2 years (if you have a basic pay of less then £14,500 you still get increment rises)
-Fixed monthly travel payment based on the average of NON-MEAL allowances for both fleets (so box payments, long day, overtime, CAT, early report etc) We would still have the same meal payments as now.
-All new recruits would join Eurofleet, Worldwide at LHR or LGWSF, so same as now, there would be no new fleet however we would have to make changes
-New crew complements very much like what was imposed in November. No one down payments
-Operational flexibility for all rosters (the only one area I really had major hang ups on and still do)
-No double nights off on WW
-1 day off less on EF
-on working days up to 5, crew can work 'til 2200 before day off instead of the current 2100 for up to 4, 2000 for 5,6,7 day blocks
-single supervisor and crew complements like they have now
All future crew, transfers, part-time offers and future promotions would be on a new contract with new pay and conditions but would join on current fleets.
BASSA/Unite proposal;
-proposed a deal mirroring the pilot’s deal exactly with a 2.61% reduction in incremental pay. With an equivalent agreed share scheme to reward crew for this contribution in 2011 and 2012
-New disruption agreement
-Middle East back to backs launched (how that would save money I don't know???)
-Purser-Main crew swap on 767,777,747 aircraft. on longhaul ''premium purser'' will be introduced. So the PSR would be in charge of both premium cabins, would work in just one, with main crew working in the other one.
-Single supervisor on shorthaul (oh dear - many crew have gone in a tizz and are angry at BA for this, but it was Unite who proposed it on the 767!)
-EF to operate all 767 flights including longhaul 767s
-Finish time on EF to change to 2200
-Purser-Main crew swap at LGW (they have already given up alot but here BASSA are just letting LGW have 1 less PSR again than LHR, but LHR crew whinge that they are hard done by after the impositions with 1 PSR more than LGW still!)
That's what I remember. Anyone remember anymore post it here!
(DISCLAIMER The above post represents my own personal viewpoint and opinions and in no way the opinions of BA my employer)
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777-300s
TruBlu123 wrote:
Patience, these aircraft have not been delivered! BA ordered six 777-300ERs in August 2008 (two from Boeing, four from lessor GE Commercial Aviation Services). BA also has four more on option from Boeing.
The plan is to fit First Class to the -300ERs. This is in contrast with the omission of First from the 777-200ERs which were delivered in 2009.
Part ot the company's problem is the make up of the long haul fleet, too many B747-400's, not enough B777's especially -300's.
The plan is to fit First Class to the -300ERs. This is in contrast with the omission of First from the 777-200ERs which were delivered in 2009.
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I don't know why Unite are so far from agreeing with BA.
As for capping the amount of First pax in order to change the crew complements - what the heck???? That is a ridiculous suggestion.
Middle East back to backs launched (how that would save money I don't know???)
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Another problem is that many crew believe BA has a lot of money - there's always money somewhere.
One crew had been surfing BA.com and checking flight tickets for some time - monitoring obviously - and come to the conclusion that "tickets aren't exactly cheap" and "my flights are always been full" so "BA is definitely making money".
One crew had been surfing BA.com and checking flight tickets for some time - monitoring obviously - and come to the conclusion that "tickets aren't exactly cheap" and "my flights are always been full" so "BA is definitely making money".
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Err..eh..ummmm...Human Factor, yes you did forget someone.
The Professional Cabin-crew Council (PCC) are all managers set up by BA.
Err...no, we're not. We were born right here on Pprune!
Oh..and is our new code to your satisfaction all you 4-letter phobics?
I am BA cabin crew and the above represents my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
The Professional Cabin-crew Council (PCC) are all managers set up by BA.
Err...no, we're not. We were born right here on Pprune!
Oh..and is our new code to your satisfaction all you 4-letter phobics?
I am BA cabin crew and the above represents my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
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Oh yes Winstonsmith, I forgot Unite are not being realistic. Oh I missed that proposal of the specfic flight suggestion as I only had a quick look. I can't believe they are serious that if some flights were to operate crew down they would cancel another flight to get onen flight a full crew complement. That must have been a joke surely?? Of course flights are canx if the legal minimum cannot be fulfilled for safety reasons but the extra complement is just to make the service more efficient. If the flight was crew down yes service may not be as quick but as long as safety was fulfilled and it is a one off then customers would prefer that than be disrupted.
You are right winstonsmith on your last point. I have even flown with crew who deny the recession. Also as reports say we 'are coming out of recession' they actually believe we don't need to make any savings whatsoever as we will return to profit next week! As they said in an ITD that I have done, even if the flight is full there is a lower percentage of pax paying full fare and alot of pax are travelling on special promotions and offers and on discounted fares so it is still less revenue coming in. Obviously it is good that many more flight are getting busier again but it certainly doesn't mean we are already profitable.
My belief is if this can be sorted, BA will survive (I hope anyway) as I think they are a strong airline etc. But a strike could do terrible damage and that's what us crew need to take on board when the ballot arrives. I have taken it onboard. So have many of us on here and many crew I have chatted to. Some crew, sadly still believe it is a ''message'' to WW, which is what the union misleads the naive to believe. However they have already entered talks the last few weeks. OK they both can't reach agreement again but don't Unite members think that is because Unite are so unwilling to change. Like BF has said in his latest letter and email, it is a vote to strike. Mind you, some (a minority) are willing to strike until the airlines shuts, this is a a very vocal minority as most crew even many Yes voters disagree with this way of thinking but the most militant that drive BASSA is what we are up against!
This is my own personal viewpoint and my own opinions and are not the opinions of my employer BA
You are right winstonsmith on your last point. I have even flown with crew who deny the recession. Also as reports say we 'are coming out of recession' they actually believe we don't need to make any savings whatsoever as we will return to profit next week! As they said in an ITD that I have done, even if the flight is full there is a lower percentage of pax paying full fare and alot of pax are travelling on special promotions and offers and on discounted fares so it is still less revenue coming in. Obviously it is good that many more flight are getting busier again but it certainly doesn't mean we are already profitable.
My belief is if this can be sorted, BA will survive (I hope anyway) as I think they are a strong airline etc. But a strike could do terrible damage and that's what us crew need to take on board when the ballot arrives. I have taken it onboard. So have many of us on here and many crew I have chatted to. Some crew, sadly still believe it is a ''message'' to WW, which is what the union misleads the naive to believe. However they have already entered talks the last few weeks. OK they both can't reach agreement again but don't Unite members think that is because Unite are so unwilling to change. Like BF has said in his latest letter and email, it is a vote to strike. Mind you, some (a minority) are willing to strike until the airlines shuts, this is a a very vocal minority as most crew even many Yes voters disagree with this way of thinking but the most militant that drive BASSA is what we are up against!
This is my own personal viewpoint and my own opinions and are not the opinions of my employer BA
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Oh..and is our new code to your satisfaction all you 4-letter phobics?
I think the 4-leter phobia is probably because people who work in aviation (especially those that arrived there from the military) are used to dealing with TLAs. FLAs would take some getting used to!
I sincerely hope the PCC goes well for you all.
Middle Easts? Well... you could always do what my airline does and do an Egypt and back in a day followed by a day off. It's legal too. That would go down well!
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I'm not BA, but crew for another LHR-based airline, and in approximately six weeks, I will no longer have a job. Mass redundancies have been announced which will devestate hundreds, along with their families. Many of us look at your (BA) proposed terms and conditions, and wonder what the problem is?
Yes, you've all had it very good in the past, but it's now time to align to the real world. Spare a thought for the hundreds of unemployed crew whilst you are fighting the removal of your telephone allowance or other such privileges/working conditions.
My tin hat is at the ready.
Yes, you've all had it very good in the past, but it's now time to align to the real world. Spare a thought for the hundreds of unemployed crew whilst you are fighting the removal of your telephone allowance or other such privileges/working conditions.
My tin hat is at the ready.
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Fonejacker (love that show!)
I'm BA crew at LHR and I agree with what you say, and so do many colleagues. You won't find too much backlash on this forum as there are alot of crew who are no-strikers and no voters who are fed up of the bullying from BASSA forums. Plus pilots, and public etc who are going to be indirectly affected by our dispute.
Am truly sorry for anyone made redundant and wish you and your colleagues good luck. Unfortunately many crew who follow the BASSA hardline are narrow minded and will just say ''well it is unfortunate but doesn't mean I should give up my T&Cs'' - very narrow minded but that is the mentality.
I don't know which airline at LHR you work for but 2 airlines obviously spring to mind I bet you guys are looking with amazement as you are used to conditions like New Fleet. I can understand people not wanting to be forced on New Fleet and new pay, but BA have said it is for future crew. Unfortunately the BASSA spin machine makes out we will all be forced onto it in the future and it will be awful etc... therefore panicking crew who then vote Yes. Then BASSA can continue it's power struggle. Like BASSA says that because there will be a single supervisor on eurofleet that that means no future promotions ever. As if they know and have a cystal ball!
Again good luck to yourself and your colleagues. Hope that somehow their is a solution. If not hope you and your colleagues can get through it, never know may see you at BA when/if they start recruiting.
Yes voters, please just spare a thought first of all to these crew (Virgin/BMI, facing redundancies aswell as airlines like flyglobespan etc etc who have gone bust) GET REAL before it is too late!! Please! This is not any old time to strike this is a question of get real accept changes and Unite - get looking at how you can come to an agreement with BAs proposal OR face losing our jobs! WAKE UP!
I'm BA crew at LHR and I agree with what you say, and so do many colleagues. You won't find too much backlash on this forum as there are alot of crew who are no-strikers and no voters who are fed up of the bullying from BASSA forums. Plus pilots, and public etc who are going to be indirectly affected by our dispute.
Am truly sorry for anyone made redundant and wish you and your colleagues good luck. Unfortunately many crew who follow the BASSA hardline are narrow minded and will just say ''well it is unfortunate but doesn't mean I should give up my T&Cs'' - very narrow minded but that is the mentality.
I don't know which airline at LHR you work for but 2 airlines obviously spring to mind
I bet you guys are looking with amazement as you are used to conditions like New Fleet. I can understand people not wanting to be forced on New Fleet and new pay, but BA have said it is for future crew. Unfortunately the BASSA spin machine makes out we will all be forced onto it in the future and it will be awful etc... therefore panicking crew who then vote Yes. Then BASSA can continue it's power struggle. Like BASSA says that because there will be a single supervisor on eurofleet that that means no future promotions ever. As if they know and have a cystal ball! Again good luck to yourself and your colleagues. Hope that somehow their is a solution. If not hope you and your colleagues can get through it, never know may see you at BA when/if they start recruiting.
Yes voters, please just spare a thought first of all to these crew (Virgin/BMI, facing redundancies aswell as airlines like flyglobespan etc etc who have gone bust) GET REAL before it is too late!! Please! This is not any old time to strike this is a question of get real accept changes and Unite - get looking at how you can come to an agreement with BAs proposal OR face losing our jobs! WAKE UP!
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Highflyer
Err...no, we're not. We were born right here on PPRuNe!
Oh..and is our new code to your satisfaction all you 4-letter phobics?
don't want to throw a spanner in the works as I am neither 4 nor 3 letter-phobic, but PCC might be confused with the new ACAS service Pre-Claim Conciliation....PCC for short
Pre-claim conciliation - a free Acas service
Where a problem in the workplace is likely to lead to a tribunal claim, we may be able to help save you cost, stress and time by offering free and impartial pre-claim conciliation (PCC).
The Professional Cabin-crew Council (PCC) are all managers set up by BA.
Err...no, we're not. We were born right here on PPRuNe!
Oh..and is our new code to your satisfaction all you 4-letter phobics?
don't want to throw a spanner in the works as I am neither 4 nor 3 letter-phobic, but PCC might be confused with the new ACAS service Pre-Claim Conciliation....PCC for short
Pre-claim conciliation - a free Acas service
Where a problem in the workplace is likely to lead to a tribunal claim, we may be able to help save you cost, stress and time by offering free and impartial pre-claim conciliation (PCC).
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SlidleBustle - nice to see some positive attitude!
A problem is that many crew are either mislead or extremely confused on the coming ballot - last time many thought it was over New Fleet and maybe it UNITE had spent a couple of pounds on ink and included some more information about the issue the outcome of the vote probably would have been different - but maybe that's what they didn't want.
I - and many others and yourself included probably - read other forums every day and I am always astonished with what some crew are saying - to think about when voting - see the bigger picture - it's not only about imposition.
A strike will have a huge financial impact on us - and that's not scaremongering - it's simple facts - unfortunately some crew doesn't realise what they have until it's gone.
A problem is that many crew are either mislead or extremely confused on the coming ballot - last time many thought it was over New Fleet and maybe it UNITE had spent a couple of pounds on ink and included some more information about the issue the outcome of the vote probably would have been different - but maybe that's what they didn't want.
I - and many others and yourself included probably - read other forums every day and I am always astonished with what some crew are saying - to think about when voting - see the bigger picture - it's not only about imposition.
A strike will have a huge financial impact on us - and that's not scaremongering - it's simple facts - unfortunately some crew doesn't realise what they have until it's gone.
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Ten West
Both CAI and TLV could be done in a day - but crew on WW don't do turnaround flights - only the occassional European trips!
LCA could also be done in a day - think about if it came over to WW. A 2 day LCA would in total be 5 days - early report day (unless change of schedule), 2 days away on trip and 2 days off.
Both CAI and TLV could be done in a day - but crew on WW don't do turnaround flights - only the occassional European trips!
LCA could also be done in a day - think about if it came over to WW. A 2 day LCA would in total be 5 days - early report day (unless change of schedule), 2 days away on trip and 2 days off.
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One crew had been surfing BA.com and checking flight tickets for some time - monitoring obviously - and come to the conclusion that "tickets aren't exactly cheap" and "my flights are always been full" so "BA is definitely making money".
That suggests that PE with 23% more legroom would be 23% more expensive.
Nope, it runs to about 45% more.
Club World with about 92% more space than WT+ should run it at about that price difference and it does 104% dearer.
So it would appear that the only" not exactly cheap" ticket, for what you get, is WT+.
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I can understand people not wanting to be forced on New Fleet and new pay, but BA have said it is for future crew. Unfortunately the BASSA spin machine makes out we will all be forced onto it in the future and it will be awful etc... therefore panicking crew who then vote Yes. Then BASSA can continue it's power struggle. Like BASSA says that because there will be a single supervisor on eurofleet that that means no future promotions ever. As if they know and have a cystal ball!
Yes I know the strike is about imposition (yeah right...!) and not about New Fleet or protecting your T’s & C’s from future molestation by management.
But, my question is: - what have BA done to you in the past that gives rise to this belief, it has to be based on some personal experience to be so guarded with regards to the future surely? Was there an occasion in the past where BA said they were going to do one thing and then did another?
I genuinely want to know but please do try to provide some sources if you can as I’m not one of those that just takes information as read without the ability to at least confirm it for the most part myself.
Thanks...
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WOW Babs, here was me thinking that BASSA were a bunch of lying S!I!TS and really all you are doing is trying to protect everyone else from the big bad Willie Walsh..
Im getting it now.. You all really dont have a clue.. Again can any member of crew please state why they are going on strike, we are not asking for the meaning of life.. or how the universe was created just a simple and reasonable answer and then you may find a few more smiles or a little accecptance..
Im getting it now.. You all really dont have a clue.. Again can any member of crew please state why they are going on strike, we are not asking for the meaning of life.. or how the universe was created just a simple and reasonable answer and then you may find a few more smiles or a little accecptance..
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Ooo! Snas, you're really opening up a can of worms now! INCOMING! 
Winstonsmith:
You guys do LCA as a nightstop? *Adopts Monty Python's "Yorkshireman" accent* - Luxury!
We do that as a there-and-back in a day too. BA crews don't have it too hard really, do they?
Winstonsmith:
You guys do LCA as a nightstop? *Adopts Monty Python's "Yorkshireman" accent* - Luxury!
We do that as a there-and-back in a day too. BA crews don't have it too hard really, do they?