British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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Of course not all strike threats are unproductive and of course some airlines will increase salaries...
It could be:
1. because the salaries are below the open market competitive level
2. because the airline is not ready for the fight
In the case of BA, the consensus is:
1.That current remuneration packages for cc are above the open market competitive level
2. That WW was now ready for a fight
3. That Unite/Bassa made a serious error of judgement calling a 12 day strike and calling it over the Xmas holidays, which lost them the popular support as well as apparently the support of some of it's members as well
It could be:
1. because the salaries are below the open market competitive level
2. because the airline is not ready for the fight
In the case of BA, the consensus is:
1.That current remuneration packages for cc are above the open market competitive level
2. That WW was now ready for a fight
3. That Unite/Bassa made a serious error of judgement calling a 12 day strike and calling it over the Xmas holidays, which lost them the popular support as well as apparently the support of some of it's members as well
Last edited by vanHorck; 28th Dec 2009 at 08:50. Reason: typo
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How many days lost pay did they suffer to get their 4%?
Losing 8 days pay is a 2.2% pay cut
(How many BA crew think they will get paid basic whilst on strike?)
Losing 8 days pay is a 2.2% pay cut
(How many BA crew think they will get paid basic whilst on strike?)
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I think the best course of action to stop this monster that BASSA has become is to resign from the Union. If we resign en masse then their income is reduced considerably and they lose their voice, and therefore their power.
We must stop funding an institution that has got so out of control that it cannot see the trees for the woods. They are enroute to self-destruct, so I see it as time to bail out of a sinking ship.
Ģ15 per month on Union subscription can be far better spent on the January sales!
Do we really want to go through this same ridiculous UNITE vs BA battle in 2010? We are working the new crew complements - and it is no hardship whatsoever. The VR people have taken the money and gone. Part-time is being brought in for those that want it. It is all happening and it is happening NOW.
The Union have shown that they are completely incompetent. They have failed two injunctions, and called a ballot illegally. They are now calling for another ballot - it is meaningless. The next injunction in February will take place before any strike action. So what happens if the judge rules in BA's favour? The only purpose another ballot serves now is to alienate even further our customers. Or maybe the judge will rule in Unite's favour - either way, the strike will be called off. So by calling for a ballot now, the Union are simply alienating our customers even further. How can we even have faith that BASSA can run a ballot that won't have another legal failure?
WE can and must stop the rot. By resigning from the Union, we will send a clear message that we have had enough. We want it to stop. We do not want to lose our jobs, or our good name.
I have been embarrassed to wear my uniform over the last few weeks. Our good name has been put to shame by this Union. It is time to bring back that feeling of pride, dignity and professionalism that we felt the first time we put the uniform on. This Union are making fools of us. We are excellent crew - we were chosen, through the most rigorous recruitment, because we do care about our customers. The Union have now spoilt everything we had, they have put egg on our faces through their incompetence, their arrogance and their unprofessionalism.
It is time to wipe it off, brush ourselves off and say NO MORE! We can bring our customers back by providing the excellent service that we are all committed to do. We must get rid of this Union that is dragging our once proud community and our once great company down.
When the Union has been dissolved, then we can rise again, with a new, more modern approach to industrial relations that will see the customers coming back, the employees happy and the profits restored. Win-Win.
The first step to that success is for us all to resign from the Union. We must destroy this Union, before it destroys us.
I am BA cabin crew, and the above represents my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
We must stop funding an institution that has got so out of control that it cannot see the trees for the woods. They are enroute to self-destruct, so I see it as time to bail out of a sinking ship.
Ģ15 per month on Union subscription can be far better spent on the January sales!
Do we really want to go through this same ridiculous UNITE vs BA battle in 2010? We are working the new crew complements - and it is no hardship whatsoever. The VR people have taken the money and gone. Part-time is being brought in for those that want it. It is all happening and it is happening NOW.
The Union have shown that they are completely incompetent. They have failed two injunctions, and called a ballot illegally. They are now calling for another ballot - it is meaningless. The next injunction in February will take place before any strike action. So what happens if the judge rules in BA's favour? The only purpose another ballot serves now is to alienate even further our customers. Or maybe the judge will rule in Unite's favour - either way, the strike will be called off. So by calling for a ballot now, the Union are simply alienating our customers even further. How can we even have faith that BASSA can run a ballot that won't have another legal failure?
WE can and must stop the rot. By resigning from the Union, we will send a clear message that we have had enough. We want it to stop. We do not want to lose our jobs, or our good name.
I have been embarrassed to wear my uniform over the last few weeks. Our good name has been put to shame by this Union. It is time to bring back that feeling of pride, dignity and professionalism that we felt the first time we put the uniform on. This Union are making fools of us. We are excellent crew - we were chosen, through the most rigorous recruitment, because we do care about our customers. The Union have now spoilt everything we had, they have put egg on our faces through their incompetence, their arrogance and their unprofessionalism.
It is time to wipe it off, brush ourselves off and say NO MORE! We can bring our customers back by providing the excellent service that we are all committed to do. We must get rid of this Union that is dragging our once proud community and our once great company down.
When the Union has been dissolved, then we can rise again, with a new, more modern approach to industrial relations that will see the customers coming back, the employees happy and the profits restored. Win-Win.
The first step to that success is for us all to resign from the Union. We must destroy this Union, before it destroys us.
I am BA cabin crew, and the above represents my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
Last edited by HiFlyer14; 28th Dec 2009 at 09:08.
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HiFlyer,
Great post, but I think you need to copy/paste this message and post it on all the different forums, not just the BA private forums on PPRUNE but also the Unite/Bassa ones and god only knows what other forums are currently being used by BA CC.
Also unfortunately although many could agree with you there is a great difference in INTENDING to resign and ACTUALLY resigning, unfortunately....
A good comparison is the donor registry..... Many people do not mind their body being used for transplants but many fail to register this intention... Rings a bell?
So the unions play on this, and the mass resignation may not happen for this very reason... The feelings will need to be strong to effect such a change.
And I agree I see many good CC staff at BA, friendly and helpful, although I see many of the other type too.....
Great post, but I think you need to copy/paste this message and post it on all the different forums, not just the BA private forums on PPRUNE but also the Unite/Bassa ones and god only knows what other forums are currently being used by BA CC.
Also unfortunately although many could agree with you there is a great difference in INTENDING to resign and ACTUALLY resigning, unfortunately....
A good comparison is the donor registry..... Many people do not mind their body being used for transplants but many fail to register this intention... Rings a bell?
So the unions play on this, and the mass resignation may not happen for this very reason... The feelings will need to be strong to effect such a change.
And I agree I see many good CC staff at BA, friendly and helpful, although I see many of the other type too.....
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The first step to that success is for us all to resign from the Union. We must destroy this Union, before it destroys us.
Another alternative is to find out the constitution of your union and the rules for calling an EGM. Then propose a vote of no confidence and for the removal of the current leadership and immediate election of new officials. I assume you will need a specific minimum number or percentage of members to do so.
This is surely the only way to know how many current BASSA members are disgusted with the shame and damage to reputations that Malone and her sycophantic cronies have caused them.
You may find that significantly more people than you expect may wish to see a leadership that is more in touch with the current economic climate and state of the airline industry and BA in particular, and who would heed a well-reasoned argument in favour of electing people who wish to get back to the table.
Or, if nothing else, it will tell you not to bother.
I know with the bully boys and girls behind them, it may be difficult to fight the BASSA stormtroopers, but there is safety in numbers and I am sure the company would do everything to assist.
Of course, if the BASSA constitution does not specifically allow for EGM's, then you are
-ed, which knowing that lot wouldn't surprise me.
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I know that sometimes unions push too hard and make serious errors of judgement but, if no-one is in a union and the management impose a 5k reduction i salary, how do you fight it?
You canīt threaten to strike (or even go on strike) because you have no legal body backing you. It is a case of tough luck ACCEPT the drop.
Sometimes unions are a ecessary evil. Vote against them if you donīt like what they propose but donīt throw the legal lifeline away.
But then again if you are maagement, thatīs exactly what you want!
You canīt threaten to strike (or even go on strike) because you have no legal body backing you. It is a case of tough luck ACCEPT the drop.
Sometimes unions are a ecessary evil. Vote against them if you donīt like what they propose but donīt throw the legal lifeline away.
But then again if you are maagement, thatīs exactly what you want!
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Economics of reality....
An airline would only give a 5K drop in salaries if it felt:
At the new rate it could still attract staff of the caliber they require
So, we re going around in circles here.... Is the cost of CC to BA on a par with the CC requirement of a healthy world class leading airline like BA?
If yes nothing will change
If no, things will change, and they will change to the long term benefit of those employed by the airline and to the detriment of those within the airline who are overpaid within the current world airline playing field
Must be nice and warm in Lanzarote.....
An airline would only give a 5K drop in salaries if it felt:
At the new rate it could still attract staff of the caliber they require
So, we re going around in circles here.... Is the cost of CC to BA on a par with the CC requirement of a healthy world class leading airline like BA?
If yes nothing will change
If no, things will change, and they will change to the long term benefit of those employed by the airline and to the detriment of those within the airline who are overpaid within the current world airline playing field
Must be nice and warm in Lanzarote.....
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Great post, but I think you need to copy/paste this message and post it on all the different forums, not just the BA private forums on PPRuNe but also the Unite/Bassa ones and god only knows what other forums are currently being used by BA CC.
Unfortunately, should anyone be so bold to do as you suggest, one would be bannned from those websites as Highflyer has previously mentioned and access is denied.
It's a 'Brotherhood' which is far worse than the Ku Klux Klan! You only have to read Watersidewonker's venomous posts to see that, perhaps Miss M or romans44 might oblige as they both belong to BASSA.
Last edited by Tiramisu; 28th Dec 2009 at 23:36. Reason: Spelling!
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Economics of reality....
An airline would only give a 5K drop in salaries if it felt:
At the new rate it could still attract staff of the caliber they require
So, we re going around in circles here.... Is the cost of CC to BA on a par with the CC requirement of a healthy world class leading airline like BA?
If yes nothing will change
If no, things will change, and they will change to the long term benefit of those employed by the airline and to the detriment of those within the airline who are overpaid within the current world airline playing field
An airline would only give a 5K drop in salaries if it felt:
At the new rate it could still attract staff of the caliber they require
So, we re going around in circles here.... Is the cost of CC to BA on a par with the CC requirement of a healthy world class leading airline like BA?
If yes nothing will change
If no, things will change, and they will change to the long term benefit of those employed by the airline and to the detriment of those within the airline who are overpaid within the current world airline playing field
Are you related to henkybaby by any chance?
I detect a similarity in you postings and you're both based in the Netherlands.
All good of course. Logical and very sensible.
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Cymmon
The situation you describe is not the same as the one BA cc find themselves in.
However, in your example, if an employer tried to impose a Ģ5k pay cut without agreement, it would be a breach of contract.
The company could claim SOSR at the subsequent tribunal.
The situation you describe is not the same as the one BA cc find themselves in.
However, in your example, if an employer tried to impose a Ģ5k pay cut without agreement, it would be a breach of contract.
The company could claim SOSR at the subsequent tribunal.
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Astrodome,
Ironically I think you will find that the majority of crews are well at ease with each other after a days work. Especially on SH and the majority of time on LH.
The stragglers at the back, i.e. the minority, are generally those like WatersideWonker with a big BASSA mouth and lacking in the ability to reign it in. Oddly enough they spend most of their 'down route' time stirring up trouble on the internet as no one else wants to socialise with them.
There are a few, and I stress again, a minority who persist in the reasoning that BA owe them a living. Although the current situation has also been caused by very poor management and an innate inability to grab the bull by the horns the blame MUST land on BOTH sides.
If the likes of WatersideWonker wish to take the company down to spite all the others working for BA and the customers then they are in the wrong job, working with the wrong people and possess the wrong attitude and I, personally, will fight them all the way.
The BASSA vote showed the depth of feeling but the shock at the action showed that there was no stomach for the Unite idea of fair IA. BA management need to listen but BASSA need to understand that the days of Unionistic bullying are over.
Have a good New Year!
I have also noticed that the dynamics between the CC and the FDC seem to be better as well. It was very interesting and an eye opener to watch a KLM and an Air France flight land within a few minutes of one another.
The stragglers at the back, i.e. the minority, are generally those like WatersideWonker with a big BASSA mouth and lacking in the ability to reign it in. Oddly enough they spend most of their 'down route' time stirring up trouble on the internet as no one else wants to socialise with them.
There are a few, and I stress again, a minority who persist in the reasoning that BA owe them a living. Although the current situation has also been caused by very poor management and an innate inability to grab the bull by the horns the blame MUST land on BOTH sides.
If the likes of WatersideWonker wish to take the company down to spite all the others working for BA and the customers then they are in the wrong job, working with the wrong people and possess the wrong attitude and I, personally, will fight them all the way.
The BASSA vote showed the depth of feeling but the shock at the action showed that there was no stomach for the Unite idea of fair IA. BA management need to listen but BASSA need to understand that the days of Unionistic bullying are over.
Have a good New Year!
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Tiramisu
No link to Henky (as far as I am aware 
) but as Dutchmen we have been lumbered with the "poldermodel" for years.
Like I stated before we do not have in Holland a two party political system but rather a multitude of parties from the extreme Wilders to the almost as extreme left, and over the decades we have had to lear to make compromises and learn to cohabit in harmony....
I was chief negotiator in some collective bargaining agreements for several years in Holland and it was a pleasure dealing with unions who were willing to look at the long term health of the companies involved (and hence the long term employment prospects) rather than the short term gain of their own members to the detriment of the company and it s total workforce
Our system too is not perfect, but here you are, in the current situation I think both Henk and I would prefer trust, harmony, co-existence and compromise, with both parties respecting each other....
I like Tiramisu too... soft and alcoholic......
No link to Henky (as far as I am aware ) but as Dutchmen we have been lumbered with the "poldermodel" for years.Like I stated before we do not have in Holland a two party political system but rather a multitude of parties from the extreme Wilders to the almost as extreme left, and over the decades we have had to lear to make compromises and learn to cohabit in harmony....
I was chief negotiator in some collective bargaining agreements for several years in Holland and it was a pleasure dealing with unions who were willing to look at the long term health of the companies involved (and hence the long term employment prospects) rather than the short term gain of their own members to the detriment of the company and it s total workforce
Our system too is not perfect, but here you are, in the current situation I think both Henk and I would prefer trust, harmony, co-existence and compromise, with both parties respecting each other....
I like Tiramisu too... soft and alcoholic......
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I know that sometimes unions push too hard and make serious errors of judgement but, if no-one is in a union and the management impose a 5k reduction i salary, how do you fight it?
You canīt threaten to strike (or even go on strike) because you have no legal body backing you. It is a case of tough luck ACCEPT the drop.
Sometimes unions are a ecessary evil. Vote against them if you donīt like what they propose but donīt throw the legal lifeline away.
You canīt threaten to strike (or even go on strike) because you have no legal body backing you. It is a case of tough luck ACCEPT the drop.
Sometimes unions are a ecessary evil. Vote against them if you donīt like what they propose but donīt throw the legal lifeline away.
Which goes back to what Highflyer is saying, resign from BASSA and they'll lose their power. A new union is needed, we cannot survive without one, however not the present one which will bring us all down. As I previously mentioned, perhaps BALPA should have a subsidiary union for cabin crew and we'll all be better off. Wishful thinking on my part.
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But just like companies, unions carve up the market, so Balpa will not risk infuriating Unite/Bassa by starting a CC union...... yet.....
Sometimes markets get re-carved-upped (if you know what I mean)
Perhaps MissM and Tiramisu should team up and volunteer to Balpa to setting up the new constructive CC section? It might be worth a try.....
Sometimes markets get re-carved-upped (if you know what I mean)
Perhaps MissM and Tiramisu should team up and volunteer to Balpa to setting up the new constructive CC section? It might be worth a try.....
Last edited by vanHorck; 28th Dec 2009 at 10:40. Reason: a further thought regarding MissM and Tiramisu
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MissM #481
From my experience passengers have short memory.
They may abandon BA for the time being but sooner or later they will come back.
Fly British Airways after all the bull**** and frustration caused by bolshie, militant, cabin crew (you know who you are) to its regular and loyal long-haul customers over the last couple of months? Absolutely not. We would rather drink neat battery acid.
BOAC (Better On a Camel) than to be dictated to whether or not you will let your employers deliver the goods.
As I have written before, my company will no longer use its travel budget on a doubtful and erratic airline; there are plenty of others out there that will deliver.
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MissM #549
I couldn't care less what people think of us
Can anyone tell us paying pax when sanity will return to labour relations at BA?
In the meantime, most of us are flying with other carriers; many of us will NOT return to BA - it's simply too risky.
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Albert Salmon
I respect your decision.
You have decided to take your business elsewhere. You will never return, you say. In that case, could I respectfully ask you to stop running us down, please?
Most BA employees are loyal, including me, and whilst constructive criticism is welcome, I'm not sure I recognise BA as being 'doubtful & erratic'. When I go to work, things are very definite, not doubtful, and there is nothing erratic about my flying or that of my colleagues.
I respect your decision.
You have decided to take your business elsewhere. You will never return, you say. In that case, could I respectfully ask you to stop running us down, please?
Most BA employees are loyal, including me, and whilst constructive criticism is welcome, I'm not sure I recognise BA as being 'doubtful & erratic'. When I go to work, things are very definite, not doubtful, and there is nothing erratic about my flying or that of my colleagues.
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could I respectfully ask you to stop running us down, please?
The continued threat of strikes by British Airways' cabin crew are causing very serious disruption to us. By "us" I mean paying passengers who generate revenue that pays your salaries and allowances.
The sooner the hotheads who have incited this industrial unrest get and totally understand this, the better all of us will be.
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Can someone tell me if BA flight crew would be prepared to work for the same wages as Wizz Air pilots that is about on par with what BA want to do to our terms and conditions. I pose the question with new terms and conditions how many would leave BA to go to another airline.
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@ overstress ... I agree with my fellow rock-resident, Albert Salmon, in that "doubtful and erratic" relates to the advisability [or otherwise] of pre-booking BA flights that may or may not operate due to IA by CC. I have never had any major concerns about the performance of BA flight deck crews [well, perhaps just once, but that was over 25 years ago ]
I am already pre-booked on BA to the USA in April. I hope that BA will be able to deliver what I have already paid for. It is that uncertainty [and my potential fiscal loss if IA takes place] that is driving us to other carriers who we can rely on to deliver us to our destination.
At the moment, buying a BA ticket is a bit like buying a Lottery ticket, albeit with different odds.
]I am already pre-booked on BA to the USA in April. I hope that BA will be able to deliver what I have already paid for. It is that uncertainty [and my potential fiscal loss if IA takes place] that is driving us to other carriers who we can rely on to deliver us to our destination.
At the moment, buying a BA ticket is a bit like buying a Lottery ticket, albeit with different odds.