British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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Len McCluskey says....
"We are making this announcement now so families can plan their travel arrangements in confidence."
What utterly transparent balderdash!
They are making this announcement now to get the most Cabin Crew votes IN FAVOUR OF A STRIKE!!! Many of the 'non-voters' and the baa-baa 'yes-voters' in the last ballot have since said that THEY WOULD NOT HAVE VOTED FOR THE 12 DAYS OF CHRISTMAS STRIKE, had BASSA consulted/informed them.
BA Cabin Crew are not naturally malcious people (even the militant masses) as demonstrated at the Kempton Park Rabble Rousing where some crew were understandably worried about the questionable morality of threatening to ruin Christmas AND Easter!
...and the smarter one in the crowd was worried about the 'wisdom' in being SEEN to deliberately want to punish your OWN customers!!
Either that or they have decided they no longer wish to be SHOWN to the general public as trying to kick BA in the balderdashes while it's down
!Something tells me the general public are a little smarter than that
!...and if they're not the Daily Mail/Sun/Star/Mirror/News of the World/Guardian/Independent/Telegraph/Times etc will tell them what's what!
UNITE claim to be willing to talk "anytime, any place".....BBC News Question Time please
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With or without a strike the union currently has what it wants - the paying punter booking with other airlines due to uncertainty, to which WW has no answer.
If CC DO vote for a strike, the majority will probably be much thinner than before.
But the union will already have enjoyed its vistory over WW, in the form of lost revenue and lost confidence in BA.
If CC really want to support BA in the way some have indicated in this and other forums, perhaps they should say to their employer 'no, I don't want to strike, so let's kill this vote immediately so (a) the public can regain confidence and (b) the company can stop losing money at the rate it is at the moment.
Or if not, CC should carry on as they are and look forward to the JAL effect.
If CC DO vote for a strike, the majority will probably be much thinner than before.
But the union will already have enjoyed its vistory over WW, in the form of lost revenue and lost confidence in BA.
If CC really want to support BA in the way some have indicated in this and other forums, perhaps they should say to their employer 'no, I don't want to strike, so let's kill this vote immediately so (a) the public can regain confidence and (b) the company can stop losing money at the rate it is at the moment.
Or if not, CC should carry on as they are and look forward to the JAL effect.
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Right.
I have been observing this thread (and its predecessors) for nearly a year. I have watched argument and counter-argument come and go. I have read many sensible suggestions being posited, and I have also seen some really stupid ripostes - on both sides.
The time has arrived for both sides of this circular argument to STOP.
In an ideal world, the manager(s) of this thread would call a time-out for a sensible period (a day, perhaps) for all contributors to put down their computer mice and to consider both sides of the debate.
Having observed this cease-fire - and had a chance to think objectively about their opponents' points of view - the debate could continue.
The same principle could well be used by the main protagonists, too: British Airways on the one hand, and the cabin crew unions on the other.
That's it.
Now carry on banging your heads together. It's been quite amusing to watch your playgound antics.
I have been observing this thread (and its predecessors) for nearly a year. I have watched argument and counter-argument come and go. I have read many sensible suggestions being posited, and I have also seen some really stupid ripostes - on both sides.
The time has arrived for both sides of this circular argument to STOP.
In an ideal world, the manager(s) of this thread would call a time-out for a sensible period (a day, perhaps) for all contributors to put down their computer mice and to consider both sides of the debate.
Having observed this cease-fire - and had a chance to think objectively about their opponents' points of view - the debate could continue.
The same principle could well be used by the main protagonists, too: British Airways on the one hand, and the cabin crew unions on the other.
That's it.
Now carry on banging your heads together. It's been quite amusing to watch your playgound antics.
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617sqn -there is a lot of misinformation being put out on this forum and BigBrutha is right to exercise caution.
This is what the law says:
So, although it has to be agreed, If I were part-time, and if BA were to ask me to work on my part-time block due to "operational requirements", (particularly during a strike period), I would make very sure that I had a water-tight reason for not being able to do so. Otherwise, I would come to work.
I however will be coming to work regardless. Have volunteered already and am so looking forward to working with all these wonderful people throughout BA who are pulling out all the stops to BA back on the map again.
Desertia - go on - book a BA flight. You know you want to.
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
This is what the law says:
Sometimes, the operational needs of the company you work for may make it necessary to change the number of hours that your work. Whether you work full time or part time however, any changes your employer wants to make to your employment contract must be agreed with you.
I however will be coming to work regardless. Have volunteered already and am so looking forward to working with all these wonderful people throughout BA who are pulling out all the stops to BA back on the map again.
Desertia - go on - book a BA flight. You know you want to.
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
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Anyway, at the risk of sounding rude, I have very few sympathy for CC.
I have been badly treated more than once (and trust me, I am usually a "nice" person) by FAs in C, probably because they "had a bad day", which simply shouldn't exist. At the end of the day, you're (over)paid to live with the fear of a crash (if you have it), move a tray around (even in F, service isn't exactly michelin starred), show some safety instructions (unless it's on tape) and finally get taught how to empty a plane -passengers willing- in less than 2 minutes. What a big deal. It gives you the right to take passengers and coworkers as hostages with loosy stikes at the worst timing possible ? To be rude during flights because it's almost impossible to toss you of the company ?
Shame on you.
If you think you deserve more money, or not less money in spite of the economy, go get it somewhere else. If this place doesn't exist, draw your own conclusions.
Thanks for the advice petdemouche.
As crew we are used to dealing with people who have "had a bad day" all the time.
Many of us were employed without even knowing the salary we would be paid, let alone thinking " great salary...will buy me a gorgeous coffin if we crash!!" We joined the airline because of our desire to look after people and work for one of the best employers in the UK. BA was a once great employer and managed to make every single employee feel valued.
As a Cabin Service Director I did a lot more than "move a tray around" or "give out a sandwich" which was how the FO on my last trip with BA described how he saw my future role with the company.
I have never been rude to a passenger in my life. I have had many many passengers be incredibly rude to me over issues totally beyond my control, such as delays, failed mechanics from In-flight entertainment to engines, lack of meal choice, withdrawing alcohol, or just because they had a bad day. I have been pinned against a galley wall by an irrate passenger screaming odscenities in my face because we were half an hour late onto the stand from Manchester to LHR. My excellent training and years of experience allowed me to deal with all of these, to quote just a few, incidents with calm and professionalism.
When I left BA I was becoming more and more fed up with the way passengers were treating cabin crew.
I was delighted to be offered an excellent position as a customer service training manager earning double the salary at BA and thankfully that figure has nothing to do with having to live in fear of a crash, more to do with the array of transferable skills that the experience of working as Cabin Crew brings.
The new role involves no "tray-moving" or "sandwich delivery" for which I am eternally grateful, but i will dearly miss all of my fellow tray-movers and sandwich-deliverers and you guys up the "pointy end"! We have all partied together and we have supported each other in many ways. I have some fantastic memories, mostly relating to meeting and working with some amazing people, both customers and colleagues alike.
I have been badly treated more than once (and trust me, I am usually a "nice" person) by FAs in C, probably because they "had a bad day", which simply shouldn't exist. At the end of the day, you're (over)paid to live with the fear of a crash (if you have it), move a tray around (even in F, service isn't exactly michelin starred), show some safety instructions (unless it's on tape) and finally get taught how to empty a plane -passengers willing- in less than 2 minutes. What a big deal. It gives you the right to take passengers and coworkers as hostages with loosy stikes at the worst timing possible ? To be rude during flights because it's almost impossible to toss you of the company ?
Shame on you.
If you think you deserve more money, or not less money in spite of the economy, go get it somewhere else. If this place doesn't exist, draw your own conclusions.
Thanks for the advice petdemouche.
As crew we are used to dealing with people who have "had a bad day" all the time.
Many of us were employed without even knowing the salary we would be paid, let alone thinking " great salary...will buy me a gorgeous coffin if we crash!!" We joined the airline because of our desire to look after people and work for one of the best employers in the UK. BA was a once great employer and managed to make every single employee feel valued.
As a Cabin Service Director I did a lot more than "move a tray around" or "give out a sandwich" which was how the FO on my last trip with BA described how he saw my future role with the company.
I have never been rude to a passenger in my life. I have had many many passengers be incredibly rude to me over issues totally beyond my control, such as delays, failed mechanics from In-flight entertainment to engines, lack of meal choice, withdrawing alcohol, or just because they had a bad day. I have been pinned against a galley wall by an irrate passenger screaming odscenities in my face because we were half an hour late onto the stand from Manchester to LHR. My excellent training and years of experience allowed me to deal with all of these, to quote just a few, incidents with calm and professionalism.
When I left BA I was becoming more and more fed up with the way passengers were treating cabin crew.
I was delighted to be offered an excellent position as a customer service training manager earning double the salary at BA and thankfully that figure has nothing to do with having to live in fear of a crash, more to do with the array of transferable skills that the experience of working as Cabin Crew brings.
The new role involves no "tray-moving" or "sandwich delivery" for which I am eternally grateful, but i will dearly miss all of my fellow tray-movers and sandwich-deliverers and you guys up the "pointy end"! We have all partied together and we have supported each other in many ways. I have some fantastic memories, mostly relating to meeting and working with some amazing people, both customers and colleagues alike.
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Well well well...
Are the rats leaving the sinking ship (so to speak)?
A union rep has asked genuinely about becoming a member of the PCCC.
Very interesting development in my eyes.
Gg
Are the rats leaving the sinking ship (so to speak)?
A union rep has asked genuinely about becoming a member of the PCCC.
Very interesting development in my eyes.
Gg
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617sqn - See you there! Coffee is on me.
Flybymerchant
Thankyou for your support. The positive feedback that we have had has been superb. We have only emailed a few people, yet they are obviously spreading the word. The amount of people that have written to us and said "Thankyou - it is time for a new more positive approach." has been overwhelming. We're not yet at the stage of paying Glamgirl £100 per day 
, she either does it for the love of it or she can walk,
but a professional council with professional attitudes is on it's way.
Slowly but surely, I am beginning to feel pride again in the company I work for, and I will be immensely proud to work alongside the volunteers that will prove that hard work never killed anyone.
I am BA cabin crew and this is my viewpoint and not that of BA.
Flybymerchant
I have emailed the head of Flight Operations to ask BA to recognise the Professional Cabin Crew Council and as a pilot have volunteered my services to our customers any place, any time to help try to rebuild bridges; I look forward to working with/for many of you in March, let's get rid of the rot and MAKE THIS COMPANY GREAT ONCE AGAIN!!
, she either does it for the love of it or she can walk, but a professional council with professional attitudes is on it's way.Slowly but surely, I am beginning to feel pride again in the company I work for, and I will be immensely proud to work alongside the volunteers that will prove that hard work never killed anyone.
I am BA cabin crew and this is my viewpoint and not that of BA.
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HiFlyer14
I am really trying to be enthusiastic at the thought of the PCCC but having been a member of the minor union since 1997 I know that they have had absolutely no say in the negotiating process.
I joined them because I didn't want to be 'out on strike' after a show of hands and believed there was a better way of negotiating change. Sound familiar?
Unless you can secure a majority membership, especially on WW, your PCCC will be the same toothless organisation that CC89/Amicus have been and BA still wont negotiate with you without BASSA present. That said, its no reason not to try and I do hope I am wrong. Best of luck!
I joined them because I didn't want to be 'out on strike' after a show of hands and believed there was a better way of negotiating change. Sound familiar?
Unless you can secure a majority membership, especially on WW, your PCCC will be the same toothless organisation that CC89/Amicus have been and BA still wont negotiate with you without BASSA present. That said, its no reason not to try and I do hope I am wrong. Best of luck!
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Perhaps if the mods believe that a post needs to be removed rather than just deleting it the content itself is removed and replaced with a brief explanation as to why, which transgressions have been made for example.
In doing this perhaps people will be less likely to repeat the same offense and certainly we will have less posts asking where posts have gone, which then themselves get removed, leading to more posts asking where posts have gone – yadda, yadda.
Guess this one will vanish now also..?
In doing this perhaps people will be less likely to repeat the same offense and certainly we will have less posts asking where posts have gone, which then themselves get removed, leading to more posts asking where posts have gone – yadda, yadda.
Guess this one will vanish now also..?
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Yep Snas
Mine was deleted a few days ago and I have no idea why; perhaps because it had the phrase 'pilot's point of view' in it? I am not suggesting that it was moderated unfairly, just that I don't know what I said wrong.
To be fair though, I think the moderators have a right job on their hands with this thread, so I for one would like to thank them for their efforts...
Mine was deleted a few days ago and I have no idea why; perhaps because it had the phrase 'pilot's point of view' in it? I am not suggesting that it was moderated unfairly, just that I don't know what I said wrong.
To be fair though, I think the moderators have a right job on their hands with this thread, so I for one would like to thank them for their efforts...
A little while back, MissM posted:
A pretty bold statement, symptomatic of so much that is wrong with BASSA and it's adherents. It is the blind leading the blind. MissM, you never checked your claim before posting did you? You couldn't have! You just assumed that readers here would be as lax as you and believe it!
JAL will be shedding some 15600 jobs, about one third of it's workforce. And JAL pensioners have already agreed to a 30% cut in their pension payouts. Imagine that - an airline that will shed more jobs than all the equivalent number of cabin crew in BA.
But you, MissM, thought it would be easy to get away with saying JAL are nowhere near the size of BA. Crazy! You keep forgetting there are many here who check, think, engage brain, etc. That sort of nonsense may work on the 'less rigorous' forums out there - not here.
JAL are not anywhere near the size of BA
JAL will be shedding some 15600 jobs, about one third of it's workforce. And JAL pensioners have already agreed to a 30% cut in their pension payouts. Imagine that - an airline that will shed more jobs than all the equivalent number of cabin crew in BA.
But you, MissM, thought it would be easy to get away with saying JAL are nowhere near the size of BA. Crazy! You keep forgetting there are many here who check, think, engage brain, etc. That sort of nonsense may work on the 'less rigorous' forums out there - not here.
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Information on numbers please
I was told today that the attendance at the Kempton Park BASSA meeting was approximately 300 as against the more than 1000 who attended the Sandown Park meeting before Christmas. Can anyone confirm the accuracy of these figures?
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the content itself is removed and replaced with a brief explanation as to why, which transgressions have been made for example.
if you had an idea how many posts need deleting in this thread you wouldn't propose it! We have to make a living outside the moderating job, and this thread had us ask for help to other Mods because of all the wrong kind of excitement and extra work it causes. As for "explanation", all you need to know before hitting "Send" are mostly the website Rules that you signed when you joined, a little manners and a splash of common sense.
Also, we have as a rule not to interfere with a user's post itself other than deletion. So no adding or deleting stuff in the post. The full post either stays or goes.
Stoic,
That would be an interesting number to confirm! If correct, it would explain why the BASSA lot haven't said a thing about it. They normally love to bang on about percentages and numbers of supporters etc etc, but you won't find them ever mentioning a lack of support.
Anything about attendance numbers on the BASSA website itself, anyone? Here is your chance!
That would be an interesting number to confirm! If correct, it would explain why the BASSA lot haven't said a thing about it. They normally love to bang on about percentages and numbers of supporters etc etc, but you won't find them ever mentioning a lack of support.
Anything about attendance numbers on the BASSA website itself, anyone? Here is your chance!
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Why I've left Unite the Union
Slightly OT, but an interesting read, especially paragarph 5, which shows problems with the membership database as far back as 2004.
Why I've left Unite the Union | Matthew Cain's blog
Regarding attendance at the Kempton Pk meeting .... weren't they going to produce a video? Guess they'll have to use some cardboard cut-outs to make-up the numbers. And yes, the silence since the meeting would certainly support the idea that very few attended.
And I know I shouldn't start posting too many random links, but I had to laugh at the line .... "the perforation of the eyes was in most cases insuffiecient to allow vision" .... in this article: JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
Why I've left Unite the Union | Matthew Cain's blog
Regarding attendance at the Kempton Pk meeting .... weren't they going to produce a video? Guess they'll have to use some cardboard cut-outs to make-up the numbers. And yes, the silence since the meeting would certainly support the idea that very few attended.
And I know I shouldn't start posting too many random links, but I had to laugh at the line .... "the perforation of the eyes was in most cases insuffiecient to allow vision" .... in this article: JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
Last edited by TorC; 20th Jan 2010 at 15:17. Reason: 2nd link added
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I know that several people have asked for details about the meeting (on cf), but they're refusing to allow for anything to be posted, as "there are too many spies", and they're scared of getting their behinds sued. 
Gg
Gg
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