British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Twilight Zone near 30W
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And yet, and I have read all entries on this thread since the announcement of the result, not ONE contribution defending the action.
A Lurker?
Where are you?
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: southeast UK
Posts: 232
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BBC reckon 80% turnout and 90% in favour
We are booked with BA out of LHR in February (with BA as a last resort following a strike threat by pilots a little while back that put a cloud over our holidays). I hope this is all over by then.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: temporarily unsure of position
Age: 51
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I cannot abide those who previously refer to BA passengers as customers and then lo and behold suddenly, with the spectre of IA looming over the festive period, start referring to them as families and young children and start laying it on thick about how mummy and daddy are going to break it to them that they won't be seeing Aunt Flo in Australia over Christmas because of some nasty , vindictive crew members hell bent on their own self preservation etc etc.
Your emotive language comes straight out of the BA(mis) management handbook on Pravda and political spin in the Willie Walsh era.
What you idiots fail to understand is that BA is not a charity run by the voluntary benevolence of the cabin crew. They owe nothing to any member of the public who flies with BA. Amazing eh, but an airline is a business.
A business that should be managed by decent, honest and transparent people, particularly those at the top. I'm sick of hearing the media spin on how overpaid and mollycoddled cabin crew are and how they enjoy champagne lifestyles and exorbitant T's and C's that are so out of line with the rest of the industry.
Utter nonsense I'm sorry to say.
How about a CEO whose salary was £350,000 pa 4 years ago and has awarded himself increase after increase, bonus after bonus to all and sundry at board level; who now enjoys a monstrous £838,000 basic package. Go on , go figure...
Well, how does that tie in with a' Fight for Survival' ?
You want more? Mmm, let me think. How about paying nearly 40% more than he should have done for fuel during the last 18 months. And he only wants to pay his loyal cabin crew market rate. It's a joke.
Enough is enough. He may have ruined Aer Lingus but he is way, way out of his depth with a company like BA. The end is nigh , and the City will soon be telling him that if he doesn't remove these appalling, unilateral impositions on his front line staff.
The 92% ballot was a fine result and well done to all who voted for IA. IT'S ABOUT TIME. He has seriously underestimated the resolve of his cabin crew who have very little left to lose. Like a cornered tiger, they are ready to fight.
Your emotive language comes straight out of the BA(mis) management handbook on Pravda and political spin in the Willie Walsh era.
What you idiots fail to understand is that BA is not a charity run by the voluntary benevolence of the cabin crew. They owe nothing to any member of the public who flies with BA. Amazing eh, but an airline is a business.
A business that should be managed by decent, honest and transparent people, particularly those at the top. I'm sick of hearing the media spin on how overpaid and mollycoddled cabin crew are and how they enjoy champagne lifestyles and exorbitant T's and C's that are so out of line with the rest of the industry.
Utter nonsense I'm sorry to say.
How about a CEO whose salary was £350,000 pa 4 years ago and has awarded himself increase after increase, bonus after bonus to all and sundry at board level; who now enjoys a monstrous £838,000 basic package. Go on , go figure...
Well, how does that tie in with a' Fight for Survival' ?
You want more? Mmm, let me think. How about paying nearly 40% more than he should have done for fuel during the last 18 months. And he only wants to pay his loyal cabin crew market rate. It's a joke.
Enough is enough. He may have ruined Aer Lingus but he is way, way out of his depth with a company like BA. The end is nigh , and the City will soon be telling him that if he doesn't remove these appalling, unilateral impositions on his front line staff.
The 92% ballot was a fine result and well done to all who voted for IA. IT'S ABOUT TIME. He has seriously underestimated the resolve of his cabin crew who have very little left to lose. Like a cornered tiger, they are ready to fight.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: southeast UK
Posts: 232
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the answer.
I will have to trawl back through 245 pages to find out how many CC in total BA employ.
Damn it, no I won't as it does not actually matter. The mere fact that 9,500 can vote in favour of a strike over Xmas and New Year in the the 21st century says it all to me. I know where my hard earned cash is going in ski season 2010/11. Anywhere but BA.
I will have to trawl back through 245 pages to find out how many CC in total BA employ.
Damn it, no I won't as it does not actually matter. The mere fact that 9,500 can vote in favour of a strike over Xmas and New Year in the the 21st century says it all to me. I know where my hard earned cash is going in ski season 2010/11. Anywhere but BA.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: south england
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A lot of flights will be operating on the 22nd.
Remember.....this result is not a surprise to anyone. The big question is what percentage of those in the union are truly willing to withdraw their labour. Voting for strike is one thing......
As stated on here before, there will be many crew now wondering if their colleagues will have the courage of their convictions and also go on strike. Will the draw of the allowances for the 9 day Singapore-Sydney be too much for some crew to turn down. Some people will simply not be able to afford not to go to work, especially as January is traditionally a tough month for pay, having been payed early in December and then been through Christmas and new year.
WW will not back down, he can't, for the sake of BA's long (maybe even short) term future.
Good luck to all
Remember.....this result is not a surprise to anyone. The big question is what percentage of those in the union are truly willing to withdraw their labour. Voting for strike is one thing......
As stated on here before, there will be many crew now wondering if their colleagues will have the courage of their convictions and also go on strike. Will the draw of the allowances for the 9 day Singapore-Sydney be too much for some crew to turn down. Some people will simply not be able to afford not to go to work, especially as January is traditionally a tough month for pay, having been payed early in December and then been through Christmas and new year.
WW will not back down, he can't, for the sake of BA's long (maybe even short) term future.
Good luck to all
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: glos
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fincastle, don't worry, there is a plan that will see the majority of LH flights taking place, with consolidation where necessary. JNB is a profitable destination (well, as close to profitable as we have at the moment!) and is unlikely to get scrubbed.
The vote means different things depending on whether or not you are cc in BA.
To many cc, including one I spoke to this evening, it means that WW will now "have to listen", Quite what he is meant to listen to is unclear, as BASSA have withdrawn from all contact with the company. They voted "Yes" to improve their union's bargaining power (a tactic that has been successful in the past), and it is slowly dawning on them that their bluff has been called.
To the rest of us it means that at last the most belligerent and obstructive union in the company has been taken on. They will be utterly humiliated and from their ashes will rise a moderate and mature organisation that can represent the interests of the cc.
In the meantime, standby for (unacknowledged) mass resignations from BASSA, and a damp squib of a strike that will be over before lunch time on day 1.
I am genuinely sorry for the inconvenience that our passengers are being put through, and I only hope that we can win back your confidence (and custom) in the months and years to come.
And sorry, just had to add that the line
has lightened what was otherwise a pretty grim day! As a description of the state of readiness of BASSA to put their money where their mouth is, it is worthy of "Comical Ali"'s finest, reality denying, "bon mots"!
Thanks for making me laugh.
The vote means different things depending on whether or not you are cc in BA.
To many cc, including one I spoke to this evening, it means that WW will now "have to listen", Quite what he is meant to listen to is unclear, as BASSA have withdrawn from all contact with the company. They voted "Yes" to improve their union's bargaining power (a tactic that has been successful in the past), and it is slowly dawning on them that their bluff has been called.
To the rest of us it means that at last the most belligerent and obstructive union in the company has been taken on. They will be utterly humiliated and from their ashes will rise a moderate and mature organisation that can represent the interests of the cc.
In the meantime, standby for (unacknowledged) mass resignations from BASSA, and a damp squib of a strike that will be over before lunch time on day 1.
I am genuinely sorry for the inconvenience that our passengers are being put through, and I only hope that we can win back your confidence (and custom) in the months and years to come.
And sorry, just had to add that the line
Like a cornered tiger, they are ready to fight.
Thanks for making me laugh.
Last edited by Runway vacated; 14th Dec 2009 at 16:21. Reason: Added amusement!
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: cairo
Age: 62
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The timing of this action makes it seem like a direct attack on the customers who trusted BA with their holiday flight plans. Many of us feel the union is holding us hostage and we resent the hell out of it.
The anger is going to be directed straight to the CC, and not management. More than that what you will find is that the general public are going to be a lot more supportive of flying BA if WW takes draconian action against the CC who are now seen as the villains.
So if you don't feel compassion has any place in this, and it is just business, that is fine. And when I cheer WW for cleaning house and start flying BA again because I think he took needed action.. well, that's just business too.
The anger is going to be directed straight to the CC, and not management. More than that what you will find is that the general public are going to be a lot more supportive of flying BA if WW takes draconian action against the CC who are now seen as the villains.
So if you don't feel compassion has any place in this, and it is just business, that is fine. And when I cheer WW for cleaning house and start flying BA again because I think he took needed action.. well, that's just business too.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 75N 16E
Age: 54
Posts: 4,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I like BA and try to fly BA whenever possible. But this IA is likely to make me use other airlines.
If someone doesn't like the cabin crew job, terms and conditions and pay, THEN LEAVE AND DO SOMETHING ELSE. Don't bleat and moan about it like it is YOUR RIGHT to be employed by BA. I hate unions with a passion, all they do is take your money and screw up your lives.
The trouble is I fear whoever voted for IA has just voted to lose their job. IF BA went tits up, then you only have yourselves to blame....
IMHO of course....
If someone doesn't like the cabin crew job, terms and conditions and pay, THEN LEAVE AND DO SOMETHING ELSE. Don't bleat and moan about it like it is YOUR RIGHT to be employed by BA. I hate unions with a passion, all they do is take your money and screw up your lives.
The trouble is I fear whoever voted for IA has just voted to lose their job. IF BA went tits up, then you only have yourselves to blame....
IMHO of course....
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rudeness aside - how is it you think that BA makes money to pay its employees, if not via the ticket and cargo purchases made by the public to whom you owe nothing??
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Twilight Zone near 30W
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Electricflyer
I cannot abide those who previously refer to BA passengers as customers and then lo and behold suddenly, with the spectre of IA looming over the festive period, start referring to them as families and young children and start laying it on thick about how mummy and daddy are going to break it to them that they won't be seeing Aunt Flo in Australia over Christmas because of some nasty , vindictive crew members hell bent on their own self preservation etc etc.
Your emotive language comes straight out of the BA(mis) management handbook on Pravda and political spin in the Willie Walsh era.
Your emotive language comes straight out of the BA(mis) management handbook on Pravda and political spin in the Willie Walsh era.
What you idiots fail to understand is that BA is not a charity run by the voluntary benevolence of the cabin crew. They owe nothing to any member of the public who flies with BA. Amazing eh, but an airline is a business.
A business that should be managed by decent, honest and transparent people, particularly those at the top. I'm sick of hearing the media spin on how overpaid and mollycoddled cabin crew are and how they enjoy champagne lifestyles and exorbitant T's and C's that are so out of line with the rest of the industry.
Utter nonsense I'm sorry to say.
A business that should be managed by decent, honest and transparent people, particularly those at the top. I'm sick of hearing the media spin on how overpaid and mollycoddled cabin crew are and how they enjoy champagne lifestyles and exorbitant T's and C's that are so out of line with the rest of the industry.
Utter nonsense I'm sorry to say.
How about a CEO whose salary was £350,000 pa 4 years ago and has awarded himself increase after increase, bonus after bonus to all and sundry at board level; who now enjoys a monstrous £838,000 basic package. Go on , go figure...
Well, how does that tie in with a' Fight for Survival' ?
Well, how does that tie in with a' Fight for Survival' ?
You want more? Mmm, let me think. How about paying nearly 40% more than he should have done for fuel during the last 18 months. And he only wants to pay his loyal cabin crew market rate. It's a joke.
Enough is enough. He may have ruined Aer Lingus but he is way, way out of his depth with a company like BA. The end is nigh , and the City will soon be telling him that if he doesn't remove these appalling, unilateral impositions on his front line staff.
The 92% ballot was a fine result and well done to all who voted for IA. IT'S ABOUT TIME. He has seriously underestimated the resolve of his cabin crew who have very little left to lose. Like a cornered tiger, they are ready to fight.
92% of 80% of union members equals approximately 9500 in favour out of 12000+ cabin crew. Considering the strike ballot was "marketed" by BASSA as a means to get BA back to the table and many crew will have voted in favour on that basis, I'll put money on the fact that a large proportion of that 9500 will not actually strike (BA will take care of a "sick-out" later in the week), particularly when crew realise that £30 per day (£360) instead of what they would have been paid in basic, pension contributions and allowances will not cover the Christmas bills.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 737
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From post 4889:
Those choosing to go on strike will I'm sure know, that BA traditionally made 90% of it's profits from just 7 routes. I think it can be taken for granted that BA will be able to crew rather more than just those basic 7 routes.
The rather surprising thing is that, as yet, no advice has been given to members of Unite regarding what will happen when BA get tough. This is going to get very, very nasty!
A very rude awakening is coming to anyone voting yes, without the resolve to "walk the walk"!
Incidentally, the term 'Pattern Sickness', and the fact that it is gross misconduct were designed for exactly this kind of situation!
PS: 12 days of Unite's 'strike pay' is £360. After tax, I imagine that's £270. Not much to replace virtually half a month's pay??
Just going sick for BKK-SYD or SIN-SYD, NRT, or HKG is going to cost any individual many hundreds of pounds!
If I were BA cabin crew, I'd be wondering how many of my colleagues will defy the union on the 22nd? There are likely to be quite sufficient for BA to mount a credible operation, despite "The Grinch who stole Xmas"!
I would suggest the more there are, the more tenuous the chances of strikers maintaining any kind of employment with BA!
Cabin Crew will be distributed to the most profitable routes.
The rather surprising thing is that, as yet, no advice has been given to members of Unite regarding what will happen when BA get tough. This is going to get very, very nasty!
A very rude awakening is coming to anyone voting yes, without the resolve to "walk the walk"!
Incidentally, the term 'Pattern Sickness', and the fact that it is gross misconduct were designed for exactly this kind of situation!
PS: 12 days of Unite's 'strike pay' is £360. After tax, I imagine that's £270. Not much to replace virtually half a month's pay??
Just going sick for BKK-SYD or SIN-SYD, NRT, or HKG is going to cost any individual many hundreds of pounds!
If I were BA cabin crew, I'd be wondering how many of my colleagues will defy the union on the 22nd? There are likely to be quite sufficient for BA to mount a credible operation, despite "The Grinch who stole Xmas"!
I would suggest the more there are, the more tenuous the chances of strikers maintaining any kind of employment with BA!
Last edited by 4468; 14th Dec 2009 at 16:42.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Netherlands
Age: 58
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To the pro-strike community
IA is a right people have under our laws.
How you use that right is a completely different matter. I do not dispute the right of the BA crew to use IA to try and force a point. However the manner in which you chose to apply that right is despicable. That is what annoys us and that is why we denounce you.
How you use that right is a completely different matter. I do not dispute the right of the BA crew to use IA to try and force a point. However the manner in which you chose to apply that right is despicable. That is what annoys us and that is why we denounce you.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am BA Cabin Crew and physically feeling sick watching the news!!! I am sooo upset, and hope I can get my message accross in this post!!!
I am totally appauled by how shortsighted so many of my 'colleagues' are!!! Whatever happens over the next few days won't take away the damage this is doing to our already struggling company and the anxiety a lot of our customers are currently experiencing. I also feel for my colleagues in different departments who must be worried about our company's future and their jobs!!!
I'd like to appologise to our customers who's travel plans might be disrupted!!! I am in total shock!!!
I am rostered to work on 22 December and will report for duty. I don't know where I will end up and for how long, but this is just a small price to pay to do my bit to try and save the
horrible horrible situation we find ourselves
I am totally appauled by how shortsighted so many of my 'colleagues' are!!! Whatever happens over the next few days won't take away the damage this is doing to our already struggling company and the anxiety a lot of our customers are currently experiencing. I also feel for my colleagues in different departments who must be worried about our company's future and their jobs!!!
I'd like to appologise to our customers who's travel plans might be disrupted!!! I am in total shock!!!
I am rostered to work on 22 December and will report for duty. I don't know where I will end up and for how long, but this is just a small price to pay to do my bit to try and save the
horrible horrible situation we find ourselves
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Twilight Zone near 30W
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A very rude awakening is coming to anyone voting yes, without the resolve to "walk the walk"!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: temporarily unsure of position
Age: 51
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Matt101,
Maybe I wasn't clear on that . Of course I accept that punters give BA revenue and in turn help pay their wages. And for that , during these times especially, they are grateful.
What I meant was the cabin crew do not owe the public a favour by sewing together everybody's holiday plans and performing a Christmas service just because it's Christmas. This dispute could have happened during the autumn but Walsh chose to string it out so that the ballot would occur now. That is not the fault of BASSA.
This strike was engineered by BA to afford cabin crew as little public sympathy as possible.
Maybe I wasn't clear on that . Of course I accept that punters give BA revenue and in turn help pay their wages. And for that , during these times especially, they are grateful.
What I meant was the cabin crew do not owe the public a favour by sewing together everybody's holiday plans and performing a Christmas service just because it's Christmas. This dispute could have happened during the autumn but Walsh chose to string it out so that the ballot would occur now. That is not the fault of BASSA.
This strike was engineered by BA to afford cabin crew as little public sympathy as possible.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SALISBURY
Age: 76
Posts: 706
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Runway vacated
I am genuinely sorry for the inconvenience that our passengers are being put through, and I only hope that we can win back your confidence (and custom) in the months and years to come.
I won't say any more right now to avoid being banned again. Thanks again for your comments & fly safely. I'm actually on the CPT flight but I guess the same applies.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ask OPS!
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Willie Walsh, as the CEO of a major international 'Blue Chip' airline, is one of the cheapest (best value?) CEO's of similar airlines in the world even on his 'monstrous' salary.
The Cabin Crew, by comparison, are not.
The management are not doing an 'Aer Lingus' here, the Cabin Crew Union is though.
You want negotiation? What about the last 9 months.
Sadly I feel there will be a lot of animosity in the workplace for the next few weeks. Lets hope we can all keep it professional in the face of a militant Union trying to destroy all of our livelihoods.
The Cabin Crew, by comparison, are not.
The management are not doing an 'Aer Lingus' here, the Cabin Crew Union is though.
You want negotiation? What about the last 9 months.
Sadly I feel there will be a lot of animosity in the workplace for the next few weeks. Lets hope we can all keep it professional in the face of a militant Union trying to destroy all of our livelihoods.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Heathrow
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So it has happened but what next!!
So the result is out and well never came as a surprise to anyone but anyone care to answer the following:
1) Who will be the first to moan when they are "stuck" in some far destination unable to get home for christmas to spend it with their husbands, wives and children because the flight they would be crewing home has been cancelled?
2) Who will be the first to moan when in an attempt to "stay afloat" BA end up having to make compulsory redundancies instead of the "voluntary ones" that have already been taken up?>
3) How many voluntary redundants got a ballot paper and voted and had it counted even though they no longer are employed by BA and can therefore no longer be a member of BASSA and therefore eligible to vote?
4) Whose fault will it be when further impositions occur because another 9 months pass without any progress?
5) If people "hate" the way they are being "treated" why not leave and get a job elsewhere? I think I already know the answer to that one.
Lets see how many think that by voting "Yes" it would mean a nice easy relaxed Christmas off - not so glamorous a thought when sat in a hotel in the middle of Africa surrounded by colleagues who would like to be home for Christmas. Try explaining that to your children..."Mummy/Daddy wont be home for Christmas because.........." answers on a postcard
1) Who will be the first to moan when they are "stuck" in some far destination unable to get home for christmas to spend it with their husbands, wives and children because the flight they would be crewing home has been cancelled?
2) Who will be the first to moan when in an attempt to "stay afloat" BA end up having to make compulsory redundancies instead of the "voluntary ones" that have already been taken up?>
3) How many voluntary redundants got a ballot paper and voted and had it counted even though they no longer are employed by BA and can therefore no longer be a member of BASSA and therefore eligible to vote?
4) Whose fault will it be when further impositions occur because another 9 months pass without any progress?
5) If people "hate" the way they are being "treated" why not leave and get a job elsewhere? I think I already know the answer to that one.
Lets see how many think that by voting "Yes" it would mean a nice easy relaxed Christmas off - not so glamorous a thought when sat in a hotel in the middle of Africa surrounded by colleagues who would like to be home for Christmas. Try explaining that to your children..."Mummy/Daddy wont be home for Christmas because.........." answers on a postcard
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Twilight Zone near 30W
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This dispute could have happened during the autumn but Walsh chose to string it out so that the ballot would occur now. That is not the fault of BASSA.
That is entirely the fault of BASSA.