British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
BBC
The BBC news carried an interview with a 'yes' voting CC who expressed the view that the timing and duration of the strike came as a surprise. No matter what else, an 80% turnout and 92% sends a message to the mangement: only problem is they will know it already ! I think its a PR disaster for the union and, speaking as someone born in Liverpool 14 with strong memories of the 1970's industrial debacles, your union leader needs to loose that accent he shares with me.
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Thanks Hiflyer for the advice and I am definitely interested in joining your committee! Think I will be coming on here a lot more in the next few days.
Interesting development:
Just had an email from someone in the manpower department - and it mentions registering for 'Rest day working' ie Overtime, for the days of the industrial action period. I wonder how many people will sign up for this? Wave some money in front of some of these strikers and how many will cave in?
Interesting times...
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Interesting development:
Just had an email from someone in the manpower department - and it mentions registering for 'Rest day working' ie Overtime, for the days of the industrial action period. I wonder how many people will sign up for this? Wave some money in front of some of these strikers and how many will cave in?
Interesting times...
AD
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Atlas Drawer
Welcome to this well informed & open forum. I am delighted that you are willing to support people like myself & my wife who booked our seats last January to fly to CPT to celebrate our silver wedding anniversary.
I'm sure that you will be supported by many of your colleagues who are equally appalled by the bully boy tactics being employed by Bassa.
I'm sure that this will see the end of your dinosaurs that are trying to ruin this great company.
I'm sure that you will be supported by many of your colleagues who are equally appalled by the bully boy tactics being employed by Bassa.
I'm sure that this will see the end of your dinosaurs that are trying to ruin this great company.
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Oh dear........3 leftwing crony hasbeen socialist muppets have decided to destroy the livelyhoods of 14,000 CC by pretending that they care about their future!
The public will be furious, BA has its mandate to crush Bassa like a worm to the detriment of thousands of very hard working crew on market leading contracts. What planet!
The public will be furious, BA has its mandate to crush Bassa like a worm to the detriment of thousands of very hard working crew on market leading contracts. What planet!
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BBC NEWS
The timing of the strike came as a surprise?
One assumes the c/c knew what today's date is and the strike can be 7 days later.
The few c/c I have spoken to all hoped the strike would be over the Christmas period. What they were unsure about was what the strike was really about, they all kept mentioning NEW FLEET, little else.
If a strike happens I guess the doctors will get a lot of appointments for private sick notes. The 7 days self certification would not cover the entire period of 12 days.
Knowing a doctor rather well, I think it may be a little difficult to get a private sick note for 12 days when it is apparent there is nothing wrong with the person and it covers both the entire Christmas and New Year holiday period. I suppose they will go for self inflicted stress like they did in 1997.
The timing of the strike came as a surprise?
One assumes the c/c knew what today's date is and the strike can be 7 days later.
The few c/c I have spoken to all hoped the strike would be over the Christmas period. What they were unsure about was what the strike was really about, they all kept mentioning NEW FLEET, little else.
If a strike happens I guess the doctors will get a lot of appointments for private sick notes. The 7 days self certification would not cover the entire period of 12 days.
Knowing a doctor rather well, I think it may be a little difficult to get a private sick note for 12 days when it is apparent there is nothing wrong with the person and it covers both the entire Christmas and New Year holiday period. I suppose they will go for self inflicted stress like they did in 1997.
Last edited by Jean-Lill; 14th Dec 2009 at 19:41. Reason: mistake
I'd like to just say - as a pilot working for another airline in Europe, booked to travel home on Christmas eve to be with his girlfriend and family for a few days - thank you to all those BA cabin crew coming in here and saying that they intend to go to work as normal over the period. It's reassuring and heartening to know that there's a chance I won't be disrupted, and that you're not all a bunch of militant idiots. If it's any of you who end up operating my BSL-LHR on 24th December - thank you.
What a crying shame that you have to be represented by such a collection of moronic t*sspots like McCluskey, who seem hellbent on ruining your company. You have my greatest sympathy.
What a crying shame that you have to be represented by such a collection of moronic t*sspots like McCluskey, who seem hellbent on ruining your company. You have my greatest sympathy.
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I think BA cabin crew have a way inflated idea of their importance. I've just cancelled my South African trip with BA and re-booked with KLM for next weekend. Theres 4k pished up the wall, thats someones salary.
Judging by these comments, Army Rumour Service > > Forums > > Normal Life > > Travel > > Does anybody fly BA by choice? BA will not be missed.
This has all the all hallmarks of swiss/sabena. While I feel for the rest of the company, the best option would be to fold the current mess and start again.
Careful what you wish for.
Judging by these comments, Army Rumour Service > > Forums > > Normal Life > > Travel > > Does anybody fly BA by choice? BA will not be missed.
This has all the all hallmarks of swiss/sabena. While I feel for the rest of the company, the best option would be to fold the current mess and start again.
Careful what you wish for.
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Thanks for the welcome Salisbury and I would love to be crew on your flight to CPT, but I am EF! I wish you the best of luck on your special day!
. I am sure you will get away on your silver anniversary with no hitches if some crew actually consider the wider ramifications of what they are doing. I actually think most crew have not considered:
1. How am I going to pay my bills with only a strike fund to cover my days of missed pay?
2. What happens after the strike?
3. What savings am I prepared to make?
And thats just off the top of my head. Think I am starting to find my 'voice' now!
Just for the record I am prepared to do fixed links and later off duty at 10pm before days off. But have I ever been asked or canvassed by my union on this? Have I ?
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. I am sure you will get away on your silver anniversary with no hitches if some crew actually consider the wider ramifications of what they are doing. I actually think most crew have not considered:1. How am I going to pay my bills with only a strike fund to cover my days of missed pay?
2. What happens after the strike?
3. What savings am I prepared to make?
And thats just off the top of my head. Think I am starting to find my 'voice' now!
Just for the record I am prepared to do fixed links and later off duty at 10pm before days off. But have I ever been asked or canvassed by my union on this? Have I ?
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AtlasDrawer
You'll find on this site that anyone can state their views, whatever they may be, without fear of insult or intimidation. We just don't stand for that kind of interaction, even if we disagree with the opinion of the poster. We prefer sensible, adult discussion, and hope that you are able to get some of your questions answered and maybe have some concerns alleviated.
It's going to be a stressful couple of weeks and there will be subtle intimidation from some comms from Bassa I'm sure, but rest assured that there are many in your position, including many who voted Yes, who do not wish to strike and will be looking for like-minded support.
BA will be doing a great deal to make going to work safe and free from intimidation. Any concerns, ask on here and I'm sure someone will have the right response.
Good luck.
You'll find on this site that anyone can state their views, whatever they may be, without fear of insult or intimidation. We just don't stand for that kind of interaction, even if we disagree with the opinion of the poster. We prefer sensible, adult discussion, and hope that you are able to get some of your questions answered and maybe have some concerns alleviated.
It's going to be a stressful couple of weeks and there will be subtle intimidation from some comms from Bassa I'm sure, but rest assured that there are many in your position, including many who voted Yes, who do not wish to strike and will be looking for like-minded support.
BA will be doing a great deal to make going to work safe and free from intimidation. Any concerns, ask on here and I'm sure someone will have the right response.
Good luck.
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Cause may be different, solution may be the same. Please note the effect on the conditions for staff. The Swissar Story.
On 24 September 2001 the company presented its plans for radical change. Swissair and its regional subsidiary Crossair, where Swissair held 70 percent of the shares, would develop a new airline. Crossair was regarded as the most profitable part of the Swissair Group, where pilots were only paid 50% and cabin crews 70% of the salaries of their colleagues at Swissair. For further cost reduction more than 7,000 employees would be dismissed.
Swiss, the Cologne-based airline, seems to be on the right financial track with its cost-cutting measures, such as slashing personnel, renegotiating contracts and moving into cheaper offices. Swiss CEO Christoph Franz has said that the company has made further progress in improving the cost base, but that it is still not sufficiently competitive yet.
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Cause may be different, solution may be the same. Please note the effect on the conditions for staff. The Swissar Story.
Quote:
On 24 September 2001 the company presented its plans for radical change. Swissair and its regional subsidiary Crossair, where Swissair held 70 percent of the shares, would develop a new airline. Crossair was regarded as the most profitable part of the Swissair Group, where pilots were only paid 50% and cabin crews 70% of the salaries of their colleagues at Swissair. For further cost reduction more than 7,000 employees would be dismissed.
Quote:
Swiss, the Cologne-based airline, seems to be on the right financial track with its cost-cutting measures, such as slashing personnel, renegotiating contracts and moving into cheaper offices. Swiss CEO Christoph Franz has said that the company has made further progress in improving the cost base, but that it is still not sufficiently competitive yet.
Quote:
On 24 September 2001 the company presented its plans for radical change. Swissair and its regional subsidiary Crossair, where Swissair held 70 percent of the shares, would develop a new airline. Crossair was regarded as the most profitable part of the Swissair Group, where pilots were only paid 50% and cabin crews 70% of the salaries of their colleagues at Swissair. For further cost reduction more than 7,000 employees would be dismissed.
Quote:
Swiss, the Cologne-based airline, seems to be on the right financial track with its cost-cutting measures, such as slashing personnel, renegotiating contracts and moving into cheaper offices. Swiss CEO Christoph Franz has said that the company has made further progress in improving the cost base, but that it is still not sufficiently competitive yet.
Any companies staff who think they are more important than their customers needs to have their world rocked. Only an idiot forgets who pays the wages.
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Tomkins, don't forget that one possible outcome of any fight is to lose!
Given that most passengers and the general British public do not even mind if WW crushes your resistance at their expense there is no power base left for this strike.
If you enter the fight, you must be aware that you can also lose. Are you?
Given that most passengers and the general British public do not even mind if WW crushes your resistance at their expense there is no power base left for this strike.
If you enter the fight, you must be aware that you can also lose. Are you?
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Vortex me old fruit .
don,t think that c:c have forgotten who pays their wages!Maybe they are just fighting for something they believe in
don,t think that c:c have forgotten who pays their wages!Maybe they are just fighting for something they believe in
BA CC can believe in fighting for fairies, but the reality is something different.
Carry this to its conclusion of 12 days of IA, and BA will fail. I for one would welcome it. I might be able to book my travel with confidence that I will actually get there when I want to and conclude my companies business.
Amateurs.
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Ballot
I can't say that I'm surprised about the outcome of the ballot.
Some were probably taken by surprise of the strike dates but surely some of the voters must have realised that a strike action can take place 7 days after the ballot is closed and the results are announced. There has been discussion about when it should take place and concerns about the strike taking place over Christmas and New Year.
I actually feel sick over all of this and not looking forward to be going into work tomorrow. Even less than before because the next few days will be very hard to face our passengers!
Some were probably taken by surprise of the strike dates but surely some of the voters must have realised that a strike action can take place 7 days after the ballot is closed and the results are announced. There has been discussion about when it should take place and concerns about the strike taking place over Christmas and New Year.
I actually feel sick over all of this and not looking forward to be going into work tomorrow. Even less than before because the next few days will be very hard to face our passengers!
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VW-O
Spot on mate. The winners in this stupid dispute are as follows:
!. Loyal, unblinkered BA employees.
2. BA's loyal passengers.
3. Shareholders.
The losers;
BASSA!
!. Loyal, unblinkered BA employees.
2. BA's loyal passengers.
3. Shareholders.
The losers;
BASSA!
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I can't say that I'm surprised about the outcome of the ballot.
Some were probably taken by surprise of the strike dates but surely some of the voters must have realised that a strike action can take place 7 days after the ballot is closed and the results are announced. There has been discussion about when it should take place and concerns about the strike taking place over Christmas and New Year.
I actually feel sick over all of this and not looking forward to be going into work tomorrow. Even less than before because the next few days will be very hard to face our passengers!
Not knocking you, but there are lots of other jobs you could take up... erm!!
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Would you have voted yes to 12 days of strike?
The actual ballot question:
ARE YOU PREPARED TO PARTICIPATE IN STRIKE ACTION?
Sounds a bit half hearted to me. I wonder if they would have voted yes to:
DO YOU AGREE WE SHOULD STRIKE FOR 12 DAYS DURING X-MASS AND WILL YOU TAKE PART?
I find this manipulative to say the least.
ARE YOU PREPARED TO PARTICIPATE IN STRIKE ACTION?
Sounds a bit half hearted to me. I wonder if they would have voted yes to:
DO YOU AGREE WE SHOULD STRIKE FOR 12 DAYS DURING X-MASS AND WILL YOU TAKE PART?
I find this manipulative to say the least.
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A FRESH PRESS RELEASE FROM UNITE
BASSA > Latest News
PRESS RELEASE FROM UNITE CABIN CREW
Dec 14th, 2009 by admin
This "Press Release" was given to the media who were at Sandown today
"There is one component on any aircraft that is more important than any other; without it no planes can take off or land and no airline can operate - and that is its passengers.
British Airways’ cabin crew passionately believe that in order for British Airways to succeed and to prosper in the future, we must look after our customers better than every other airline.
We also believe that reducing the number of crew on board the aircraft, that provide that service, is a mistake and is not the way for British Airways to be successful; we believe that this will give our competitors a huge advantage.
If savings need to be achieved, then these should be achieved in a different way, not by reducing the quality of the service provided to our customers.
We are deeply saddened to have reached the point where we must take industrial action to get our voices heard, but feel that we have been left with no other choice.
We are extremely conscious of the disruption that this will cause to many people who have looked forward to flying, either for a holiday or to visit family, friends and loved ones over the Christmas period.
We do not want to cause that inconvenience, so even at this late stage we offer an opportunity for that disruption not to occur.
The savings that British Airways has imposed upon Cabin Crew has a value of £40 million; if the board of British Airways removes the impositions then we will recognise that by committing to savings equal to that amount.
This is not an 11th hour offer but a repeat of the sensible offers made many months ago; there is now and there was then, no need to adopt imposition as a way of doing business.
Cabin crew were always willing to play their part in reducing costs.
Such offers were continually rejected to later justify the strategy of a leadership team that continually seeks the need to reinforce "its own right to manage".
There is no need for industrial action and no need to cause disruption to even one single passenger; we urge the board of British Airways to truly look after our passengers’ interests in preventing disruption to their Christmas plans by accepting this offer, in the good faith it is offered.
If we are forced to take industrial action, then we will continue to do what we do best - look after people; as of today, we will begin to organise cabin crew to offer to work over Christmas as volunteers for charities throughout the United Kingdom that need our help"
The savings that British Airways has imposed upon Cabin Crew has a value of £40 million; if the board of British Airways removes the impositions then we will recognise that by committing to savings equal to that amount.
Has UNITE and its brigade been dumped behind a train? BA cannot remove the imposition because there aren't enough crew available as they have all left on VR!
BASSA > Latest News
PRESS RELEASE FROM UNITE CABIN CREW
Dec 14th, 2009 by admin
This "Press Release" was given to the media who were at Sandown today
"There is one component on any aircraft that is more important than any other; without it no planes can take off or land and no airline can operate - and that is its passengers.
British Airways’ cabin crew passionately believe that in order for British Airways to succeed and to prosper in the future, we must look after our customers better than every other airline.
We also believe that reducing the number of crew on board the aircraft, that provide that service, is a mistake and is not the way for British Airways to be successful; we believe that this will give our competitors a huge advantage.
If savings need to be achieved, then these should be achieved in a different way, not by reducing the quality of the service provided to our customers.
We are deeply saddened to have reached the point where we must take industrial action to get our voices heard, but feel that we have been left with no other choice.
We are extremely conscious of the disruption that this will cause to many people who have looked forward to flying, either for a holiday or to visit family, friends and loved ones over the Christmas period.
We do not want to cause that inconvenience, so even at this late stage we offer an opportunity for that disruption not to occur.
The savings that British Airways has imposed upon Cabin Crew has a value of £40 million; if the board of British Airways removes the impositions then we will recognise that by committing to savings equal to that amount.
This is not an 11th hour offer but a repeat of the sensible offers made many months ago; there is now and there was then, no need to adopt imposition as a way of doing business.
Cabin crew were always willing to play their part in reducing costs.
Such offers were continually rejected to later justify the strategy of a leadership team that continually seeks the need to reinforce "its own right to manage".
There is no need for industrial action and no need to cause disruption to even one single passenger; we urge the board of British Airways to truly look after our passengers’ interests in preventing disruption to their Christmas plans by accepting this offer, in the good faith it is offered.
If we are forced to take industrial action, then we will continue to do what we do best - look after people; as of today, we will begin to organise cabin crew to offer to work over Christmas as volunteers for charities throughout the United Kingdom that need our help"
The savings that British Airways has imposed upon Cabin Crew has a value of £40 million; if the board of British Airways removes the impositions then we will recognise that by committing to savings equal to that amount.
Has UNITE and its brigade been dumped behind a train? BA cannot remove the imposition because there aren't enough crew available as they have all left on VR!
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Vortex,
I think you are being a little harsh on the company as a whole.
Don't forget that ALL and I mean ALL other departments within the company from the baggage handlers, tug drivers, loaders, Turn round managers, checking staff, ground staff, flight crew etc. etc. etc. understood, recognised and accepted the need for change way back in the summer.
We, who are within those groups as stated above, are astounded at the arrogant attitude of the BASSA/Unite Union. They have failed at negotiation and now they are resorting to outright intimidation.
I sincerely hope that all of the flights I am due to operate over the coming strike period will operate. I also sincerely hope that WW legally blows this decrepit monster of a controlling Union out of the 21st century and back to the dark ages it belongs.
Enough is enough. The rest of BA staff are fed up with this controlling dinosaur meddling in the way the company is run. BA is not there for the amusement of the Cabin Crew and the minority who are the BASSA militants should realise they are playing with far more than the lives and careers of the CC but those of the whole company.
I now have the champagne on ice for the moment when BA gets the ballot declared illegal, possibly due to ballot papers being sent out to those taking VR who have a 'no jeopardy' vote, and bankrupt Unite. The UK will be better off without them both, BASSA and Unite.
To all passengers and potential passengers I can only hope that BA will be able to run a full service or at least a large partial service. I will be working and, as stated before, am quite happy to man a door and do a service in my Pilot uniform as I think BASSA are holding not only you, me and my colleagues to ransom but also the majority of their less militant members. They may have voted for strike but I think the 'nuclear' option came as a shock to many of them as well.
I think you are being a little harsh on the company as a whole.
Don't forget that ALL and I mean ALL other departments within the company from the baggage handlers, tug drivers, loaders, Turn round managers, checking staff, ground staff, flight crew etc. etc. etc. understood, recognised and accepted the need for change way back in the summer.
We, who are within those groups as stated above, are astounded at the arrogant attitude of the BASSA/Unite Union. They have failed at negotiation and now they are resorting to outright intimidation.
I sincerely hope that all of the flights I am due to operate over the coming strike period will operate. I also sincerely hope that WW legally blows this decrepit monster of a controlling Union out of the 21st century and back to the dark ages it belongs.
Enough is enough. The rest of BA staff are fed up with this controlling dinosaur meddling in the way the company is run. BA is not there for the amusement of the Cabin Crew and the minority who are the BASSA militants should realise they are playing with far more than the lives and careers of the CC but those of the whole company.
I now have the champagne on ice for the moment when BA gets the ballot declared illegal, possibly due to ballot papers being sent out to those taking VR who have a 'no jeopardy' vote, and bankrupt Unite. The UK will be better off without them both, BASSA and Unite.
To all passengers and potential passengers I can only hope that BA will be able to run a full service or at least a large partial service. I will be working and, as stated before, am quite happy to man a door and do a service in my Pilot uniform as I think BASSA are holding not only you, me and my colleagues to ransom but also the majority of their less militant members. They may have voted for strike but I think the 'nuclear' option came as a shock to many of them as well.