British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations

[Tiramisu]

As for your CSD friend who struggled to cope with working in the cabin and deal with issues during the flight, perhaps he/she could ask her manager for the support (training or demotion) that he/she obviously needs.

Midman,
Very well said.
BA has been very supportive throughout the changes and still are. At my In-Touch day today, they were asking for feedback to rectify what doesn't work.

[HiFlyer14]

You are not letting BA down Tiramisu, you are letting down thousands of your colleagues, who you will have to work with after the dispute has settled. Only that you will unfortunately benefit from the result having done your best to undermine the outcome.

Really? What "benefit" came from the last almost-strike in 2007 please Fume Event?

Cabin crew are not daft. Most are silently weighing up the pros and cons for themselves and will, hopefully, have voted accordingly. One thing they will not do, is strike - they haven't the guts for it. So what about those people Fume? Those people that put a Yes in the box but then fail to carry it out? They are the people letting all BA employees and our customers across the world down. Those are the people that will bring this company down, because they haven't realised the enormous damage this will do. The ones that think that WW will back down. They are the ones that are letting EVERYBODY down.

Those of us that have voted no, have, as Tiramisu said, a totally clear conscience. We have voted for what we believe in, we will stand up for what we believe in, we will come to work and we will not let BA or our customers down. We will not be brainwashed by BASSA.

I am a BA Employee, and the above represents my own viewpoint and not that of BA.

[Tiramisu]

The Purser found plenty of time yesterday to fill out several comment cards "on behalf of passengers".

Utterly disgraceful and a sackable offence!
I would have personally reported them.

[HiFlyer14]

Well, with 5 CSDs already on suspension, it looks like this Purser will be next. If this is a "get rid of dead wood" exercise from BA then I'm all for it.

It's fairly obvious that if some crew are having "appalling" flights when the rest of us are coping fine, that the problem lies with the PEOPLE on the appalling flights and not the product. It ain't rocket science, and BA will have this one sewn up pretty quick.

I am BA cabin crew, the above represents my own view and not that of BA.

[JayPee28bpr]

Fume #4522

Let's agree to differ on WW's tenure as CEO of Aer Lingus.

What I would like, though, purely for the benefit of your colleagues as they weigh the implications of your Union's current actions (legal action and IA ballot), is that you answer my question on who should replace WW as CEO of BA.

What I would like you to share with us all is just ONE name, of ANY current CEO, of ANY company, in ANY industry, in ANY country who you believe would agree with your Union's position rather than WW's. Quite simply, I do not see anyone who would do so.

You might also like to enlighten us as to which shareholders you think would support the replacement of WW with your choice of CEO. For info, BA's main shareholders are BlackRock/Merrill Lynch (13.5%), Iberia (9.1%), Standard Life (7.0%), and Barclays (7.0%). Which of them do you fancy as being supporters of the workers struggle rather than lapdogs of capitalist oppression?

My money is still on failure by WW sufficient to result in his removal being very bad for the Unions at BA. More importantly, it would be a lot more costly to individual staff at BA, eg CR most probably. You really should be very careful what you hope for in this dispute.

[TopBunk]

FE said:

You are not letting BA down Tiramisu, you are letting down thousands of your colleagues, who you will have to work with after the dispute has settled. Only that you will unfortunately benefit from the result having done your best to undermine the outcome.

This is nothing more or less than a poorly disguised attempt at bullying and harrassment by FE. He/she is trying to undermine/circumvent the democratic process by the fear/uncertainty and dread principle. It is a frequently observed behaviour exhibited by those who are cornered and know that they have lost the argument but cling to a false premise.

IMHO, in the words of Anne Robinson, "... FE/BASSA you are the weakest link, you leave with nothing. Good bye."

The sad part in all of this, is that it need not have been this way; there have been 9 months of opportunities for BASSA to engage and shape the future for cabin crew in BA. I feel really sad for my CC colleagues that they chose not to

[KitKat747]

I agree, report the person, this behaviour is beneath the belt and says eveything about these hard line people's honesty.

I am a union rep myself (not for cabin crew) and I have never before read so much nonsense from some union members as I have read on these posts. I know somethinig about the working pattern of cabin crew because I am married to one of them who was a Bassa member for more than 20 years.

My opinion is the majority of Bassa 100%'s are more afraid of the union than they are of their employer. When that happens a company has serious problems with their employees that needs resolving by whatever means it takes.

The friends of my other half speak the same language as some of the people who contribute to this topic, they will not listen to anyone other than Bassa. It is pointless trying to have a sensible discusssion with them-they beleive everything is contractual when they know very little about the legalities surrounding contract. If Bassa says it is contractual then it is as far as they are concerned.

They will have to listen to the court judgement but whatever the outcome no doubt it will be called a victory for one particular party.

I have had my rant now and am up very early tomorrow so off to bed.

[HiFlyer14]

My opinion is the majority of Bassa 100%'s are more afraid of the union than they are of their employer. When that happens a company has serious problems with their employees that needs resolving by whatever means it takes.

KitKat as an outside observer, you have astutely hit the nail on the head. This is why many of us feel the need now to speak out, to show people that it is ok to make up your own mind, and to vote accordingly. The bullying, harrassment and intimidating hold that BASSA have over the BA cabin crew community is appalling. It has to stop.

The sky ain't gonna cave in with one crew member off a plane, but it just might if BA goes bust.

I am BA cabin crew, and the above represents my own viewpoint, and not that of BA.

[Carnage Matey!]

Originally Posted by Fume Event

Well Carnage, it appears your flight from DEL with two cabin crew down, didn't go quite as "clockwork" as you suggested. I know the CSD.

Thats quite an impressive feat of detective work Mr P. Given that I specifically didn't mention the date of the flight, and all DELs are two crew down since the imposition, then you either know all the CSDs who've been to DEL over that period or you're telling porkie pies again! Oops!

[henkybaby]

All my long haul on BA CW since "the change" have been similar to the flights before the change. The service depends on the crew's attitude, not their numbers.

[Desertia]

Fume seems to be repeating A Lurker's rather poor attempt at laying on a guilt trip. I wonder if they are by any chance related?

Quote:

You are not letting BA down Tiramisu, you are letting down thousands of your colleagues, who you will have to work with after the dispute has settled. Only that you will unfortunately benefit from the result having done your best to undermine the outcome.

TopBunk summed it up neatly:

This is nothing more or less than a poorly disguised attempt at bullying and harrassment by FE. He/she is trying to undermine/circumvent the democratic process by the fear/uncertainty and dread principle. It is a frequently observed behaviour exhibited by those who are cornered and know that they have lost the argument but cling to a false premise.

So allow me to repeat myself. BASSA's intransigence since talks started have led to BA's losses being even worse than they planned. This has led to an additional 1,200 jobs being lost. BASSA are not only a disgrace to the airline, but a disgrace to trade unionism. Their selfishness will not have gone unnoticed at Unite, in the tawdry manner in which they have ruthlessly ignored industry warning signals in a desperate attempt to cling onto their obscene packages. The fabrications here about BA's profitability, and about CC being unable to do their job due to imposition, when it is already being done perfectly adequately by their colleagues, are their death throes. They are relying only on their ability to lie to and manipulate their members, but they cannot hide from the truth:

BASSA's leaders have cost 1,200 BA employees their jobs.


It is the people that continue to work and accept the changes that are keeping the airline flying. I include in this all BASSA members who, despite the poisoned atmosphere their leadership are trying to create, continue to work hard and keep the airline in business.

I only hope there are some prepared to go to Sandown and publicly resign from BASSA in front of the cameras, and give them the reason at the time: That the leadership are not interested in looking after their members' needs, only their own.

I wish all decent, hard-working BA cabin crew, BASSA members or not, all the very best at this difficult time, the blame for which can be laid squarely at the feet of these overpaid, deceitful leeches.

[wee one]

As Miss Malone lives in LA and Im sure leads from the front, will she be in attendance for the duration of the strike? In which case her continued presence on these shores may be of interest to HMRC vis a vis her resident tax status. I dont know the tax agrrement with the US but Ill wager she juggles the two arrangements so even the IRS may be curious as to the set up.
Just a thought as non staff LAX tickets can be pricey.And she may be tighter than she is amoral

The fact that Cabin crew member can be based in LHR and commute fron LAX and still feel that they are being harshly treated just about sums up the selfishness of these people. Or are we back to ptotectionism as the expense of the juniors and the company be dammed.

[HiFlyer14]

I only hope there are some prepared to go to Sandown and publicly resign from BASSA in front of the cameras, and give them the reason at the time: That the leadership are not interested in looking after their members' needs, only their own.

Some of us would Desertia, but unfortunately most people live in fear of reprisals from this very bullying and dictatorial union. Because we have to fly with these people, it is unlikely to happen.

What could happen though is that the No Vote is bigger than Lalalady anticipates. And that will be worth watching. I just hope that everyone has voted, as the abstainers will cost us dearly.

[Fume Event]

The fact is that union members like Tiramisu cannot pick and mix what dispute takes their fancy. To belong to a union and beneift from the protection it offers and then to vote NO and walk through a picket line is unacceptable.

I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. If you belong to BASSA and vote NO, you are expected to suppport the majority as they would have to accept the result if the NO voters had ascendency. That is what democracy is all about.

NO voters who plan to work and undermine their colleagues should resign from the union. Obviously it is fine to have a difference of opinion, but on Monday the NO voters I predict with near certainty, will find themselves very much in the minority and rather exposed, if they then choose to work.

As far as anyone going to Sandown and publicly resigning, well, those of you here hiding behind your pseudonyms with all your brave talk, would never have the guts to do that. This thread just gives a voice to a supine minority.

[Desertia]

As far as anyone here going to Sandown and publicly resigning, well, those of you here hiding behind your pseudonyms with all your brave talk, would never have the guts to do that

....says "Fume Event"!

[finncapt]

"and rather exposed"

That is the nearest thing I have seen written to bullying and intimidation in a long while - perhaps you should rephrase it.

[finncapt]

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought Tiramisu stated that he had voted no and then resigned from the union.

Methinks someone doesn't read all the posts.

Past history, amongst BASSA members, indicates that a yes vote isn't neccessarily followed by members actually striking.

[Desertia]

Finncapt you aren't really surprised that they would resort to threats and bullying when they are so desperate, are you? It's the only way they can try and silence the doubters who see through their constant lies.

[TorC]

Originally Posted by Fume Event

NO voters who plan to work and undermine their colleagues should resign from the union. Obviously it is fine to have a difference of opinion, but on Monday the NO voters I predict with near certainty, will find themselves very much in the minority and rather exposed, if they then choose to work.

Exposed to what exactly?

If you are hinting at disciplinary action by the union, then this might be of interest: Unjustifiable discipline by a trade union - Guidance - BIS

..... scroll down to Section 2, A ....

Section 2: When is discipline unjustifiable?

Not all union discipline is unjustifiable. What matters is the conduct for which the individual is disciplined.
The discipline will be unjustifiable only if the reason, or one of the reasons, for which it is imposed is conduct described in sections A to C below, or something that the union believes to be such conduct.
A - Strike or other industrial action

Discipline will be unjustifiable if it is for:

• failing to take part in or support any strike or other industrial action;
• showing opposition to, or lack of support for, any strike or other industrial action;
• failing to break, for any purpose connected with a strike or other industrial action, any obligation imposed by a contract of employment or by any other agreement between the individual and the person for whom he works;
• encouraging or assisting another person to honour his contract of employment or other agreement with his employer.

The most common examples of conduct for which individuals are protected against unjustifiable discipline are:

• going to work despite a call to take strike or other industrial action (the individual is protected whether or not there has been a ballot and whatever its outcome);
• crossing a picket line, including one mounted by the individual's own union at his own place of work;
• speaking out against a call to take strike or other industrial action;
• refusing to pay a levy to fund a strike or other industrial action, including one described as compulsory, or imposed under union rules.

[Desertia]

Odd then that someone has said several times on this forum that even if you vote NO and the ballot says YES, you have to strike.

Oh dear, another LIE exposed.