British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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Grow up
Do you feel proud finding the little nuggets of slander?
I will concede that certain cabin crew can be problematic but the numbers are very small.
On the whole the crew are doing their best to make this work and reporting the real issues.
Please stop focusing in the negative and grow up we are supposed to be colleagues working together.
I could easily post the very few stories where the flight crew have been unprofessional/incompetent but have more respect for my colleagues.
Listing what happens on the aircraft on a public forum shows a total lack of respect.
I hope those of you who claim to work for BA feel proud of yourselves.
Mind you I would be very quickly banned
I will concede that certain cabin crew can be problematic but the numbers are very small.
On the whole the crew are doing their best to make this work and reporting the real issues.
Please stop focusing in the negative and grow up we are supposed to be colleagues working together.
I could easily post the very few stories where the flight crew have been unprofessional/incompetent but have more respect for my colleagues.
Listing what happens on the aircraft on a public forum shows a total lack of respect.
I hope those of you who claim to work for BA feel proud of yourselves.
Mind you I would be very quickly banned
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Regarding the imposition, naturally this becomes a big issue on a full flight with other problems thrown in. The worst aircraft and configs are the 777 three class with ten crew and the High J 747's.
Fortunately I have been around long enough to have seen this all before. The current management regime think they have reinvented the wheel with all their cost cutting. In a year or so's time, they will have to put the crew back on if they still want to have an airline that regards itself as a "premium" carrier. Of course things would not be so bad or noticeable if BA had only cut back on the crew, but the product has also been decimated. This double whammy will have our Exec members leaving BA in droves as in their eyes, BA are simply taking the piss.
On the full flights I have operated, I have been lucky that there have been no AVOD problems, safety/security or medical incidents. But it will happen one day. The only difference on busy flights is that the service takes longer in Club.
I have no problem with BA taking another crewmember off, or even two, but the busier the flights are, the more the crew reductions impact on the service. Just simple arithmetic really.
Fortunately I have been around long enough to have seen this all before. The current management regime think they have reinvented the wheel with all their cost cutting. In a year or so's time, they will have to put the crew back on if they still want to have an airline that regards itself as a "premium" carrier. Of course things would not be so bad or noticeable if BA had only cut back on the crew, but the product has also been decimated. This double whammy will have our Exec members leaving BA in droves as in their eyes, BA are simply taking the piss.
On the full flights I have operated, I have been lucky that there have been no AVOD problems, safety/security or medical incidents. But it will happen one day. The only difference on busy flights is that the service takes longer in Club.
I have no problem with BA taking another crewmember off, or even two, but the busier the flights are, the more the crew reductions impact on the service. Just simple arithmetic really.
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Please give all of us a break about Avod problems and how long it takes to rectify any ife problems. (one second to press a reset button and 5 minutes to reboot the system)
The imposition is a result of the union not wanting to negotiate or negotiate at their own unacceptable terms.
The new on board matrix works very well with the sad exception of when you get some crew members spending their time and energy sabotaging the service.
The imposition is a result of the union not wanting to negotiate or negotiate at their own unacceptable terms.
The new on board matrix works very well with the sad exception of when you get some crew members spending their time and energy sabotaging the service.
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fly 12345. You have just "exposed" yourself as someone who has absolutely no idea about AVOD problems.
Many a time after a full reset the system restarts in 'Degraded' mode, meaning that the passengers cannot access the interactive part of the IFE. Other solutions have to be tried like a reset of the PAT, pulling a circuit breaker,(not stating here where) with Capt's permission etc etc etc etc.
What takes time is resetting many individual seats before you have to pull the plug on the whole system. Then you find after a full reset, some passengers who had AVOD before, can no longer access their IFE. So the process starts all over again
If the above occurs, it can take up to two hours to get the AVOD functioning with calls to Maintrol for solutions.
Many a time after a full reset the system restarts in 'Degraded' mode, meaning that the passengers cannot access the interactive part of the IFE. Other solutions have to be tried like a reset of the PAT, pulling a circuit breaker,(not stating here where) with Capt's permission etc etc etc etc.
What takes time is resetting many individual seats before you have to pull the plug on the whole system. Then you find after a full reset, some passengers who had AVOD before, can no longer access their IFE. So the process starts all over again
If the above occurs, it can take up to two hours to get the AVOD functioning with calls to Maintrol for solutions.
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fly12345
You have no idea about AVOD.
I agree it has been used as an excuse and spending 1hr+ trying to fix it is very uncommon.
To correct you, the system needs to be switched off for 15 mins to allow all 3 DMSs to shut down. Then the IFE power switch has to be switched on and 6 mins later the seat power switched on.
This may take longer but it works every time.
Do you not just have to press the land button 20mins out?
You have no idea about AVOD.
I agree it has been used as an excuse and spending 1hr+ trying to fix it is very uncommon.
To correct you, the system needs to be switched off for 15 mins to allow all 3 DMSs to shut down. Then the IFE power switch has to be switched on and 6 mins later the seat power switched on.
This may take longer but it works every time.
Do you not just have to press the land button 20mins out?
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I have resetted avod many times, when the system restarts in degraded mode you need to leave the system alone and eventually it will be ok, and whatever time it takes to reboot the system you don t have to sit and watch it, you can go back and push that trolley.
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I find it rich that when they can't win the argument the BASSA faithful resort to "grow up, wake-up, they can't be crew, blah, blah, blah..."
Well, I am grown up, I am awake and I am cabin crew. So can someone please explain to me why on my flights, and I believe the majority of flights, imposition has CAUSED NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER. Why, does that mean, according to TwoRules "Some on here who aren't willing/able to see the realities in the cabin are in selfish denial of this FACT! If this continues we all lose... period." How am I in selfish denial, by serving my customers and doing the job that I am employed and paid to do?
I am however, extremely grateful to A Lurker, TwoRules, Fume Event and Biteme for showing the rest of world what we are up against. This is what we deal with regularly when checking in for a flight and they are on your crew, spouting off their untruths and inconsistencies. It does become rather wearing.
But not for much longer, as I believe BASSA's days are numbered. I firmly believe that most crew can see through the transparent and flippant nature of this selfish, immature Union. Time to move on, and create a decent Employee Council that negotiates appropriately and provides a much better working environment. You never know, we might even achieve something for the members.
Oh, and Fume - We won't be exposed when we come to work on strike days. Me, Clarified, Tiramisu, et al have got our wigs and disguises all sorted. I'll be the one with the false nose and moustache!!
Just remember it is our right to come to work uninihibited when the strike is on, regardless of the result of the ballot. And many of us intend to.
I am BA cabin crew, and the above represents my own view and not that of BA.
Well, I am grown up, I am awake and I am cabin crew. So can someone please explain to me why on my flights, and I believe the majority of flights, imposition has CAUSED NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER. Why, does that mean, according to TwoRules "Some on here who aren't willing/able to see the realities in the cabin are in selfish denial of this FACT! If this continues we all lose... period." How am I in selfish denial, by serving my customers and doing the job that I am employed and paid to do?
I am however, extremely grateful to A Lurker, TwoRules, Fume Event and Biteme for showing the rest of world what we are up against. This is what we deal with regularly when checking in for a flight and they are on your crew, spouting off their untruths and inconsistencies. It does become rather wearing.
But not for much longer, as I believe BASSA's days are numbered. I firmly believe that most crew can see through the transparent and flippant nature of this selfish, immature Union. Time to move on, and create a decent Employee Council that negotiates appropriately and provides a much better working environment. You never know, we might even achieve something for the members.
Oh, and Fume - We won't be exposed when we come to work on strike days. Me, Clarified, Tiramisu, et al have got our wigs and disguises all sorted. I'll be the one with the false nose and moustache!!
Just remember it is our right to come to work uninihibited when the strike is on, regardless of the result of the ballot. And many of us intend to.
I am BA cabin crew, and the above represents my own view and not that of BA.
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Yes I am well aware of who the Team leader is and a fantastic job most of them do.
None of the excellent captains I have had the pleasure of working with would be posting anti crew comments on this forum.
A good team leader understands the team.
If you have issues with BASSA that is your prerogative, please direct your anger at them and not the whole community.
If we decide to back them then that is our choice not yours or anyone else’s.
If we as a community annoy you so much maybe a job with BA cargo would be more up your street.
None of the excellent captains I have had the pleasure of working with would be posting anti crew comments on this forum.
A good team leader understands the team.
If you have issues with BASSA that is your prerogative, please direct your anger at them and not the whole community.
If we decide to back them then that is our choice not yours or anyone else’s.
If we as a community annoy you so much maybe a job with BA cargo would be more up your street.
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Carnage
If that was your crews experience then that's great for your crew & passengers and any tips, etc should be fed back through the relevant channels. On my Hi-J 747 NIGHT flight it was the customers, especially club who endured a 3 1/2 hour 1st service and it would have been longer without a great team alongside me. It is not helpful to anyone, indeed its plain wrong to paint any given situation or negative experience our customers might currently experience as the fault of the CSD or the Crew from the perspective of the flightdeck, and to disrespect the work/effort that went on. I've always enjoyed a beer or a glass of vino with my f/d colleagues & have taken a tough stance on any of my cc colleagues who have shown disrespect towards your community and that will not change going forward.
At the end of the day you will tell it as you see it..... we however experience the reality of imposition and I for one will always stick to facts and rightly feed those back. I agree some of the changes will work given time, some need tweaking and some reversed. And NO that doesn't make me lazy, militant or obstructive.... it's the reality, in the cabin, that is affecting our bread & butter.... our customers premier experience. No amount of crass, bigoted & ignorant posts will change that.
We should all be included on this journey of change unfortunately our LT have taken a different & wholly unacceptable stance & the BALLOT results will show just how objectionable that stance is to me and my community.
If that was your crews experience then that's great for your crew & passengers and any tips, etc should be fed back through the relevant channels. On my Hi-J 747 NIGHT flight it was the customers, especially club who endured a 3 1/2 hour 1st service and it would have been longer without a great team alongside me. It is not helpful to anyone, indeed its plain wrong to paint any given situation or negative experience our customers might currently experience as the fault of the CSD or the Crew from the perspective of the flightdeck, and to disrespect the work/effort that went on. I've always enjoyed a beer or a glass of vino with my f/d colleagues & have taken a tough stance on any of my cc colleagues who have shown disrespect towards your community and that will not change going forward.
At the end of the day you will tell it as you see it..... we however experience the reality of imposition and I for one will always stick to facts and rightly feed those back. I agree some of the changes will work given time, some need tweaking and some reversed. And NO that doesn't make me lazy, militant or obstructive.... it's the reality, in the cabin, that is affecting our bread & butter.... our customers premier experience. No amount of crass, bigoted & ignorant posts will change that.
We should all be included on this journey of change unfortunately our LT have taken a different & wholly unacceptable stance & the BALLOT results will show just how objectionable that stance is to me and my community.
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FE
I think that if you are in a minority in any conflict, whether in Afghanistan or an industrial dispute,
I flew patrols in that theatre; several friends & comrades died on the Nimrod which exploded in midair. Soldiers are returning home every week in coffins, or hadn't you noticed?
Therefore I think that if you have any self respect that you should either delete or amend this post.
Thank you!
biteme,
You confuse 'anti-BASSA' with 'anti-cabin crew'. Or you wilfully choose to do so - a well known BASSA tactic for encouraging the woefully weak 'us and them' debate. There are excellent Captains here, offering their advice and knowledge to those willing to listen, reason, and debate.
Ironic that such a comment could so easily be used to against cabin crew who might feel that their current conditions are unworkable! Would you be happy with being told by someone with opposite views that maybe a job elsewhere would be more up your street? Swings and roundabouts!
It has been an enlightening progress to see cabin crew come here, unsure of what to do, and then having spent some time doing their homework, checking facts and opinions offered, declare that they have been taken for a ride by BASSA, and will have nothing more to do with the same.
The 'other' side of that coin is it does mean the odd BASSA proponent gets an oar in ...... but they all sound so alike. Fed nonsense by the union, repeated ad nauseum, until it becomes white noise. Irritating, but can be put to the background where it doesn't get in the way too much.
You confuse 'anti-BASSA' with 'anti-cabin crew'. Or you wilfully choose to do so - a well known BASSA tactic for encouraging the woefully weak 'us and them' debate. There are excellent Captains here, offering their advice and knowledge to those willing to listen, reason, and debate.
If we as a community annoy you so much maybe a job with BA cargo would be more up your street.
It has been an enlightening progress to see cabin crew come here, unsure of what to do, and then having spent some time doing their homework, checking facts and opinions offered, declare that they have been taken for a ride by BASSA, and will have nothing more to do with the same.
The 'other' side of that coin is it does mean the odd BASSA proponent gets an oar in ...... but they all sound so alike. Fed nonsense by the union, repeated ad nauseum, until it becomes white noise. Irritating, but can be put to the background where it doesn't get in the way too much.
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Biteme, I'll echo other posters comments on here. You've stated quite clearly that there are flights with problems and there are those that are OK. You said that there are certain CC who are "problematic" and those that aren't.
This contrasts with the BASSA diehards who will have it that the impositions are totally unworkable, but who essentially make it obvious from their postings that they don't want to them work. You don't need to be Stephen Hawking to do the subsequent maths.
However, I would assume BA have checkers don't they? It wouldn't take much to be a passenger on any flight and see and hear if staff are being deliberately obstructive or lazy. In similar vein, it wouldn't take much to be able to report that the entire crew, CSD included are working their nuts off but it's impossible to do it on a full 747 with "AVOD problems".
In the current climate, I'm fairly sure BA wouldn't rely solely on feedback from/through pro-BASSA old hands as being representative of the service as a whole. For a start, it's fairly clear that only the negative feedback would make it through.
This contrasts with the BASSA diehards who will have it that the impositions are totally unworkable, but who essentially make it obvious from their postings that they don't want to them work. You don't need to be Stephen Hawking to do the subsequent maths.
However, I would assume BA have checkers don't they? It wouldn't take much to be a passenger on any flight and see and hear if staff are being deliberately obstructive or lazy. In similar vein, it wouldn't take much to be able to report that the entire crew, CSD included are working their nuts off but it's impossible to do it on a full 747 with "AVOD problems".
In the current climate, I'm fairly sure BA wouldn't rely solely on feedback from/through pro-BASSA old hands as being representative of the service as a whole. For a start, it's fairly clear that only the negative feedback would make it through.
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DC3
"This is a cabin crew issue and some of the comments are from people who do not understand our role."
It’s all in the wording. I did not doubt the professionalism of the captain. I did carefully use the word “some” this was to indicate that not all comments were unqualified.
I feel that people with the derogatory points of view would struggle to be good team leaders let alone be able comment on customer service.
Some of us want to protect our future and are doing it our way.
Some points on this forum are well written and informative others are downright insulting and are of no worth.
I was joking about the cargo job next time a smiley will be in place.
I am not confused I have fully informed myself of the issues and my options.
This is a deeper issue than most understand. We as a community are a target for cost saving. This has been stated publicly by ww at the investor’s day.
A long-term plan (2021) to break the unions who ever they represent is in place.
The new fleet will save the company millions. We will all (cabin crew) end up on the new fleet.
Now this is not a prospect that I look forward and will do what I can to protect my future. So please if you find my points disagree with your thoughts put yourself in my shoes for a moment.
Or do you all suggest I just roll over take what is coming to me. After all its not really a career” I am only cabin crew”.
Hey I could always just move on (seriously thinking about it).
illegitimi non carborundum
"This is a cabin crew issue and some of the comments are from people who do not understand our role."
It’s all in the wording. I did not doubt the professionalism of the captain. I did carefully use the word “some” this was to indicate that not all comments were unqualified.
I feel that people with the derogatory points of view would struggle to be good team leaders let alone be able comment on customer service.
Some of us want to protect our future and are doing it our way.
Some points on this forum are well written and informative others are downright insulting and are of no worth.
I was joking about the cargo job next time a smiley will be in place.
I am not confused I have fully informed myself of the issues and my options.
This is a deeper issue than most understand. We as a community are a target for cost saving. This has been stated publicly by ww at the investor’s day.
A long-term plan (2021) to break the unions who ever they represent is in place.
The new fleet will save the company millions. We will all (cabin crew) end up on the new fleet.
Now this is not a prospect that I look forward and will do what I can to protect my future. So please if you find my points disagree with your thoughts put yourself in my shoes for a moment.
Or do you all suggest I just roll over take what is coming to me. After all its not really a career” I am only cabin crew”.
Hey I could always just move on (seriously thinking about it).
illegitimi non carborundum
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Desertia
Yes I have already conceded the point.
What I think is we have to be careful when we go to court. If reports handed to the judge to support our cause are obviously orchestrated to make the imposition unworkable he/she will dismiss them.
Any reports I put in are accurate and show where issues arise. I feel that a judge would pay more attention to facts.
Yes I have already conceded the point.
What I think is we have to be careful when we go to court. If reports handed to the judge to support our cause are obviously orchestrated to make the imposition unworkable he/she will dismiss them.
Any reports I put in are accurate and show where issues arise. I feel that a judge would pay more attention to facts.
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Biteme:
So are all the other departments in BA, and others have already negotiated their savings.
I can think of a much quicker plan to break BASSA. It's called forcing the airline into bankruptcy.
This is a deeper issue than most understand. We as a community are a target for cost saving. This has been stated publicly by ww at the investor’s day.
A long-term plan (2021) to break the unions who ever they represent is in place.
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As a very frequent flyer and proud owner of a shiny Gold card let me explain how most pax are viewing the strikers concern with our level of service:
UTTER BULLOCKS!
At least be honest and do not try to pretend it is about the service you cannot provide us under the new rules. If you feel that is the issue than let the pax do the talking (or the walking) but do not have the arrogance to infer that you strike on my behalf.
No more 'service level' or 'safety' bs anymore please. Safety is not compromised unless you feel that CAA levels are developed by idiots.
So, lets get back to why you strike. It is about your working conditions or wage levels.. Don't ever suggest you are doing this for me.
The people who advocate working your *ss off to provide a great service despite the cutbacks and who will turn up for work are the reason I fly BA. Thank you for that guys and girls. You know who you are.
UTTER BULLOCKS!
At least be honest and do not try to pretend it is about the service you cannot provide us under the new rules. If you feel that is the issue than let the pax do the talking (or the walking) but do not have the arrogance to infer that you strike on my behalf.
No more 'service level' or 'safety' bs anymore please. Safety is not compromised unless you feel that CAA levels are developed by idiots.
So, lets get back to why you strike. It is about your working conditions or wage levels.. Don't ever suggest you are doing this for me.
The people who advocate working your *ss off to provide a great service despite the cutbacks and who will turn up for work are the reason I fly BA. Thank you for that guys and girls. You know who you are.
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Desertia
I am not the voice of conversion I have made my choice and do not need to get anyone onside.
Yes departments have made savings; my worry is that the career I have chosen will no longer exist in its current form by a saving to far.
Yes this may be selfish but I have to look out for number 1.
Any forcing this airline into bankruptcy will not be done by BASSA the forcing is been done by Mr Walsh.
I am not the voice of conversion I have made my choice and do not need to get anyone onside.
Yes departments have made savings; my worry is that the career I have chosen will no longer exist in its current form by a saving to far.
Yes this may be selfish but I have to look out for number 1.
Any forcing this airline into bankruptcy will not be done by BASSA the forcing is been done by Mr Walsh.
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Desertia,
Negotiated settlement is all we want too!!!
Negotiated settlement is all we want too!!!