British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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Voted no?
I have been in the postion where my union voted for a strike yet I voted against.
When it came to the strike I resigned from the union and went to work - it seemed the honerable thing to do. In time I joined an alternative union and was a union representative for that union for many years.
I would urge all BASSA members to act with honour - if you voted to strike - then strike. If you voted NO - resign from the union, you don't have to be a member - and you will be much wealthier!
When it came to the strike I resigned from the union and went to work - it seemed the honerable thing to do. In time I joined an alternative union and was a union representative for that union for many years.
I would urge all BASSA members to act with honour - if you voted to strike - then strike. If you voted NO - resign from the union, you don't have to be a member - and you will be much wealthier!
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Just as a member of the cabinet has to tow the government line if they wish to remain in the government
A member of the government remains that regardless of being rejected as a member of the cabinet.
And it is "toe the line" not "tow the line", which is a nautical term.
Give me strength. No wonder this union is in such a mess.
Apologies mods, but it is British Airways we are discussing. I'd expect a little knowledge of British politics.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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A member of the government remains that regardless of being rejected as a member of the cabinet.
As you say though, we are discussing BA....
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ArthurS,
I've been flying with these crew complements for over 3 years
. No problems (a few teething ones in the beginning, but that's because we hadn't done long haul before). Everything gets done, and we don't stress.
However, through various sources there are conflicting reports. Some claim it's awful, some say it's no problem. Some refuse to do anything but the bare minimum, some are professional. Some try to make sure it doesn't work, some do their very best and get everything done. As always, there are different views.
Gg
I've been flying with these crew complements for over 3 years
. No problems (a few teething ones in the beginning, but that's because we hadn't done long haul before). Everything gets done, and we don't stress. However, through various sources there are conflicting reports. Some claim it's awful, some say it's no problem. Some refuse to do anything but the bare minimum, some are professional. Some try to make sure it doesn't work, some do their very best and get everything done. As always, there are different views.
Gg
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I am not cabin crew, I am a customer.
I have travelled twice since 16 November in J main deck cabin.
Outbound day flight full, nothing unusual, the cabin crew seemed to work normally, I cannot think of anything to comment on. They were perfectly ok and friendly, there was no obvious reduction in crew, the service was delivered exactly as before. I travel a lot so know the method of service.,
Return sector a night sector which was far from full. Service again was normal with nothing unusual to report, crew friendly as on the outbound flight. There was plenty of time and the services were not rushed, I was addressed by name by one of the crew who chatted but did not mention anything about new routines resulting in less crew.
Had I not been reading this topic I would not have thought there was any change at all. I left the aircraft as a completely satisfied customer.
I have travelled twice since 16 November in J main deck cabin.
Outbound day flight full, nothing unusual, the cabin crew seemed to work normally, I cannot think of anything to comment on. They were perfectly ok and friendly, there was no obvious reduction in crew, the service was delivered exactly as before. I travel a lot so know the method of service.,
Return sector a night sector which was far from full. Service again was normal with nothing unusual to report, crew friendly as on the outbound flight. There was plenty of time and the services were not rushed, I was addressed by name by one of the crew who chatted but did not mention anything about new routines resulting in less crew.
Had I not been reading this topic I would not have thought there was any change at all. I left the aircraft as a completely satisfied customer.
Last edited by Jpax; 2nd Dec 2009 at 23:37.
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ArthurS,
I've been flying with these crew complements for over 3 years
. No problems (a few teething ones in the beginning, but that's because we hadn't done long haul before). Everything gets done, and we don't stress.
However, through various sources there are conflicting reports. Some claim it's awful, some say it's no problem. Some refuse to do anything but the bare minimum, some are professional. Some try to make sure it doesn't work, some do their very best and get everything done. As always, there are different views.
I've been flying with these crew complements for over 3 years
. No problems (a few teething ones in the beginning, but that's because we hadn't done long haul before). Everything gets done, and we don't stress. However, through various sources there are conflicting reports. Some claim it's awful, some say it's no problem. Some refuse to do anything but the bare minimum, some are professional. Some try to make sure it doesn't work, some do their very best and get everything done. As always, there are different views.
I still can't believe Unite have actually picked this reason to strike. As you said, you've been doing it yourself for 3 years and i must admit you've only just made me realise LGW crew are a 'man' down. I fly out of there on longhaul just as regularly as i do LHR - often in the premium cabins and can't say i have noticed any difference in service at all !
How Unite (BASSA) expect that reason to hold any legal credibility when they themselves allowed the same thing to happen at LGW is beyond me. Are they really that stupid & blinkered ? Surely not.
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Jpax,
I'm so glad you had good flights. Sounds like you had a good crew who know what team work is and had the right attitude to work. Thanks for letting us know.
In regards to other flights, I think the whole thing depends very much on the CSD and their attitude to the whole thing. I've read "reports" where CSDs have refused to go on a trolley, where there have been go-arounds, refusal to reset AVOD, I could go on. I'm really hoping this will be in the minority, for obvious reasons.
I think (as I've said before) it's all about team work..
Gg
I'm so glad you had good flights. Sounds like you had a good crew who know what team work is and had the right attitude to work. Thanks for letting us know.
In regards to other flights, I think the whole thing depends very much on the CSD and their attitude to the whole thing. I've read "reports" where CSDs have refused to go on a trolley, where there have been go-arounds, refusal to reset AVOD, I could go on. I'm really hoping this will be in the minority, for obvious reasons.
I think (as I've said before) it's all about team work..
Gg
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ArthurS,
What seems to be the main reason Bassa/unite/LHR wants to strike about this is because they claim their customers have higher expectations
. I would like to point out though, that whenever LHR crew operate a "leisure" route, they seem to complain how demanding the passengers are... Go figure.
Oh, and not forgetting it's all about imposition...
Gg
What seems to be the main reason Bassa/unite/LHR wants to strike about this is because they claim their customers have higher expectations
. I would like to point out though, that whenever LHR crew operate a "leisure" route, they seem to complain how demanding the passengers are... Go figure.Oh, and not forgetting it's all about imposition...
Gg
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So in your opinion Glamgirl, do you see LGW backing LHR in this strike ?
I'd be surprised if they did but it has been said before on this thread that they are wiling to strike and i have heard from other people that that is the case.
I find that quite mind boggling.
I'd be surprised if they did but it has been said before on this thread that they are wiling to strike and i have heard from other people that that is the case.
I find that quite mind boggling.
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There are some LGW cc who have been "brain washed" and have voted yes. I reckon they'll be very annoyed when they realise they've been lied to. Incidentally, the only reason some LGW have voted yes is due to the union telling them there won't be any transfers to LHR - ever.
We (that keep informed about stuff) knew that anyways. No transfers is because of NewFleet. If this had been negotiated away, there would've been a better chance of keeping the option of transfers in the contract.
The issue about transfers was only flung out as "info" just before the ballot was sent out. As was the "info" about the tax on allowances for LGW. The (increasingly) cynical side of me thinks (or should I say pretty much know) that this was an excercise purely to get support from LGW.
But all in all, I doubt there would be much disruption at LGW if it comes to strike (not that I think it will get to that). Too many aren't in a union, and most don't support what the ballot is about anyways. Well, the cc who understand all the mumbo jumbo from the union anyway....
Gg
We (that keep informed about stuff) knew that anyways. No transfers is because of NewFleet. If this had been negotiated away, there would've been a better chance of keeping the option of transfers in the contract.
The issue about transfers was only flung out as "info" just before the ballot was sent out. As was the "info" about the tax on allowances for LGW. The (increasingly) cynical side of me thinks (or should I say pretty much know) that this was an excercise purely to get support from LGW.
But all in all, I doubt there would be much disruption at LGW if it comes to strike (not that I think it will get to that). Too many aren't in a union, and most don't support what the ballot is about anyways. Well, the cc who understand all the mumbo jumbo from the union anyway....
Gg
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I've read "reports" where CSDs have refused to go on a trolley, where there have been go-arounds, refusal to reset AVOD, I could go on. I'm really hoping this will be in the minority, for obvious reasons.
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Slickster,
I know what you're saying. I think it's disgusting that go-arounds have happened because of a crew member coming off the aircraft. It means they've started the 2nd service too late and aren't organised enough.
I pride myself on that I've never had a go-around due to cabin "activity", and I have no intentions of starting anytime soon. It's not exactly difficult (when working as a team) to secure a cabin for landing. I know that for some reason LHR crew only collect head-sets at 20min to land (LGW @40 mins), but whey they get the 40 min call, surely one starts preparing for landing by starting to pick up stuff/clearing in, securing the galley etc??? Or is that just too organised?
Gg
I know what you're saying. I think it's disgusting that go-arounds have happened because of a crew member coming off the aircraft. It means they've started the 2nd service too late and aren't organised enough.
I pride myself on that I've never had a go-around due to cabin "activity", and I have no intentions of starting anytime soon. It's not exactly difficult (when working as a team) to secure a cabin for landing. I know that for some reason LHR crew only collect head-sets at 20min to land (LGW @40 mins), but whey they get the 40 min call, surely one starts preparing for landing by starting to pick up stuff/clearing in, securing the galley etc??? Or is that just too organised?
Gg
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Go-Arounds
After a go-around has been carried out, an ASR has to be completed by the Captain. If the reason is because of the non-readiness of the Cabin, I would expect a thorough investigation would be carried out by the Director of Flight Ops - to whom Cabin Services now report to on matters of Safety. If it transpires that there has been a clear dereliction of duty in the Cabin, I would imagine that a disciplinairy investigation will follow - I would not like to be in the SCCM's shoes then.
Last edited by beerdrinker; 3rd Dec 2009 at 07:24.
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In practice, governments can pass any legislation (within reason) in the Commons they wish, unless there is major dissent by MPs in the governing party.
I'm not sure it's thread creep though. If our BASSA "cabinet" are making decisions without providing their reasons to their "governing party", then where is the queen that can dissolve government?
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It's good to hear Jpax had a good flight both ways, this fight with BA isn't about taking the frustrations out on the customers on day to day flights and nor should it be.
My beef as I've said before is the total disregard to collective agreements signed and agreed by both BA and the TU's. Just because these agreements don't suit the current management they shouldn't be disregarded.
I hoped there would be a mutual agreement found which suited both sides unfortunately this has not been the case.
Both sides are now in the situation where the TU members are in the middle of a ballot which could possibly lead IA, BA say they are open to talking to the TU's at anytime in reality BA are not willing to talk about the breaking of the cabin crew agreements (removal of crew members) and the TU's are not willing to talk until the breaking of the agreements is returned to the table.
Rather a Mexican stand off , sadly not an ideal situation for either side or the customers.
There should be a way forward that suits both sides in this dispute.
Should this whole unrest end in IA especially over the festive period will be disastrous for the travelling public.
The problem is that many crew feel that if they accept this imposition and the removal of one of our agreements what will be next ?
Readers may not believe being cabin crew should be a career choice and should only be a short term job before doing "a proper job". Why shouldn't the job be career choice in much the same way as pilots view their job as a career, OK it costs less to train cabin crew, however that shouldn't devalue it as chosen career for those who want to do the job.
My beef as I've said before is the total disregard to collective agreements signed and agreed by both BA and the TU's. Just because these agreements don't suit the current management they shouldn't be disregarded.
I hoped there would be a mutual agreement found which suited both sides unfortunately this has not been the case.
Both sides are now in the situation where the TU members are in the middle of a ballot which could possibly lead IA, BA say they are open to talking to the TU's at anytime in reality BA are not willing to talk about the breaking of the cabin crew agreements (removal of crew members) and the TU's are not willing to talk until the breaking of the agreements is returned to the table.
Rather a Mexican stand off , sadly not an ideal situation for either side or the customers.
There should be a way forward that suits both sides in this dispute.
Should this whole unrest end in IA especially over the festive period will be disastrous for the travelling public.
The problem is that many crew feel that if they accept this imposition and the removal of one of our agreements what will be next ?
Readers may not believe being cabin crew should be a career choice and should only be a short term job before doing "a proper job". Why shouldn't the job be career choice in much the same way as pilots view their job as a career, OK it costs less to train cabin crew, however that shouldn't devalue it as chosen career for those who want to do the job.
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Nobody was stopping you doing the job as a career, certainly not BA who agreed to take new fleet off the table. They were just asking you to do it with fewer crew on board. As BASSA wouldn't agree to this then BA's only option is to impose the changes and bypass BASSA with the generation of new fleet so that they can save the money they need to. If you want to look at who is jeopardising your 'career crew' plans I'd be looking at your union, and why they've forced BA to bring back new fleet.