British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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The rhetoric that we have been subject to is outdated, offensive and
unnecessary. We note that in their piece on their website, BASSA claim to
have been "ready to talk all week, day and night if necessary".
We welcome this stance, as at the last meeting at ACAS BASSA stated that
they were unwilling to stay beyond 3pm having arrived late (they finally
arrived after 11am) for a 10am start.
unnecessary. We note that in their piece on their website, BASSA claim to
have been "ready to talk all week, day and night if necessary".
We welcome this stance, as at the last meeting at ACAS BASSA stated that
they were unwilling to stay beyond 3pm having arrived late (they finally
arrived after 11am) for a 10am start.
Last edited by LD12986; 24th Sep 2009 at 21:20.
Junior trash
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Strong words indeed. A critical meetiing with BA and BASSA reps can't stay past 3pm? Was there something on TV? Seriously, this is poor.
Last edited by Hotel Mode; 25th Sep 2009 at 09:13.
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Bssa's Legal Team
I wonder if Bassa's Legal Representatives would be happy to answer questions regarding whether or not their "client" has been acting in the best interest of its "members"?
I here the latest from Galley FM that disillusioned Bassa members who are tired of seeing their "monthly subs" go towards paying for "creative writers" to write character assassination missives published on on its website, are seeking to break away and form a new union. After all a union represents its members and those who run can just as easily be voted off it as they are voted onto it. If the shareholders and board of BA deem it necessary to give a "vote of confidence" to the likes of WW then perhaps its time for unhappy BASSA members to give a vote of "No confidence" on its Executive! Perhaps the breakaway union is just for the "crew" who arent on the mega salaries, best trips, best allowances, 30% contracts but the ones who have little to loose financially with the BA proposals and see that in the current economic climate there is a need for change. You cant have your cake and eat it. Perhaps they are also the people that read the newspapers and watch the news on tv and see that its not just BA that are making job cuts and cost savings but also the likes of Virgin, Lufthansa, Japan Airlines as well as many of the American carriers. Surely not every airline can be "wrong"!!!!!!
I here the latest from Galley FM that disillusioned Bassa members who are tired of seeing their "monthly subs" go towards paying for "creative writers" to write character assassination missives published on on its website, are seeking to break away and form a new union. After all a union represents its members and those who run can just as easily be voted off it as they are voted onto it. If the shareholders and board of BA deem it necessary to give a "vote of confidence" to the likes of WW then perhaps its time for unhappy BASSA members to give a vote of "No confidence" on its Executive! Perhaps the breakaway union is just for the "crew" who arent on the mega salaries, best trips, best allowances, 30% contracts but the ones who have little to loose financially with the BA proposals and see that in the current economic climate there is a need for change. You cant have your cake and eat it. Perhaps they are also the people that read the newspapers and watch the news on tv and see that its not just BA that are making job cuts and cost savings but also the likes of Virgin, Lufthansa, Japan Airlines as well as many of the American carriers. Surely not every airline can be "wrong"!!!!!!
Last edited by drew3325; 25th Sep 2009 at 05:18.
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BKS
Lets Get Wasted
If I may add my two penneth worth as an employee of BA.
Has BASSA at any point met with all Cabin Crew, (or as many as is practicable.... NB not the odd hundred or so that turn up at an outside mass meeting!), to ask what THEY want, what THEY are prepared to concede and how THEY want to progress if an unsatisfactory offer results?
Clearly there are some issues in the crew community.
BASSA volunteered a strangely familiar 2.61% but without the other diminutions to our t and cs."
Has BASSA at any point met with all Cabin Crew, (or as many as is practicable.... NB not the odd hundred or so that turn up at an outside mass meeting!), to ask what THEY want, what THEY are prepared to concede and how THEY want to progress if an unsatisfactory offer results?
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LD12986
BA withdrew from SOX when they delisted from the American stock market.
compliance with Section 404 of the Sarbanes Oxley Act
Last edited by keel beam; 27th Sep 2009 at 00:19. Reason: Grammar
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Have they delisted?
Aviation Week (American magazine) dated 14th Sept page 12 "Market Focus" quotes closing price on Sept 9th - BA Current Week 34.96; Previous Week 29.50; Trailing /E 14.0 Fwd P/e 9.7 Pct Chg YLD 35.3 up.
Other airlines listed include Jetblue Southwest and Air Tran, all of which are not listed on the London FTSE. So I reckon BA are still listed on the NYSE.
BD
Aviation Week (American magazine) dated 14th Sept page 12 "Market Focus" quotes closing price on Sept 9th - BA Current Week 34.96; Previous Week 29.50; Trailing /E 14.0 Fwd P/e 9.7 Pct Chg YLD 35.3 up.
Other airlines listed include Jetblue Southwest and Air Tran, all of which are not listed on the London FTSE. So I reckon BA are still listed on the NYSE.
BD
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How are Bassa responding to the pretty unprecedented lambasting from their Unite colleagues? Turning up late, using offensive rhetoric, undermining any hope of progress etc.
And is this how its membership wish to be represented?
And is this how its membership wish to be represented?
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For the last four days, following Mandyconn's post, I've simply been a nervous wreck, hiding in the corner of the room underneath my username, quivering at the slightest rustle of the trees or ring of the telephone, and not answering the door incase it was the BASSA police come to drag me away for my rightful punishment.
So I've decided to change. I am now a reformed character, nevermore to post any of BASSA's missives on this forum again, and I may even change my mind about their literacy, relevance and value-for-money (the people who write the "Eyes-Only" posts, that is) over time. Please accept my humble apologies, I will never post another BASSA communication again, I'm just too scared.
So I've decided to change. I am now a reformed character, nevermore to post any of BASSA's missives on this forum again, and I may even change my mind about their literacy, relevance and value-for-money (the people who write the "Eyes-Only" posts, that is) over time. Please accept my humble apologies, I will never post another BASSA communication again, I'm just too scared.
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This a letter from Steve Turner, UNITE’s national officer for C.A.T. in response to the events of this week
To: All British Airways Cabin Crew
BASSA members
Dear colleagues
UNITE - British Airways Cabin Crew Negotiations
With reference to the above, I felt that it would be appropriate to update you on where negotiations are between your union and British Airways.
Firstly, I know BASSA do an excellent job of communicating with you and have kept you accurately informed of progress on a regular basis. I also know you as a community are rightly extremely supportive of your representatives. This is a testimony to your cohesiveness as members and the organisation of the branch, which gives me, your National Secretary, a real sense of pride and support during negotiations.
I have been tasked by the Joint General Secretary, Tony Woodley to lead negotiations over changes within the Cabin Crew NSP. As always I am accompanied by your BASSA representatives. I am acutely aware of the significance of the impact of proposed changes on crew and have approached our discussions with a seriousness and integrity that befits the situation you face.
Sadly I cannot say the same is true is respect of British Airways. They have constantly misrepresented both my position and that of BASSA.
Therefore for reasons of clarity I felt it necessary to take the unusual step of updating you personally to avoid any misrepresentation of the true position of your union, Unite.
Both BASSA and I were available to convene talks immediately subsequent to the meeting of the General Secretaries and Willie Walsh. A series of dates were agreed upon as acceptable to both sides, this is a simple matter of record.
To suggest otherwise is regrettably a somewhat transparent attempt to distract attention away from the real issues that we face.
They will not succeed we will continue to remain clear and focused on exactly the reasons why these talks are being held and that is to secure the future of your hard won agreements for all cabin crew within British Airways.
In respect of the meeting held this Monday the only agreement on talks were that there were no preconditions. This remains the case.
The fact that BA have attempted to place the precondition on talks of watching a presentation and accepting a £140m (or 25% reduction) cost saving, is neither helpful nor will be accepted. Indeed, sadly, they have also attempted to place the same preconditions on the meeting of the ACC NSP, again this in not acceptable to our union.
In refusing to go ahead with the NSP the company have refused to resolve serious immediate issues that affect you the crew. These issues will not go away, and by not addressing them they simply add to the myriad of industrial relations problems that we face.
In respect of the future talks, let me place on record there has been no ’agreed principles’ through ACAS. For Bill Francis, who was neither present nor involved in any of the discussions on Monday to state otherwise is simply not true. Sadly this is something that I have come to expect from his communications as they have tended to reflect a much distorted version of reality.
Your BASSA representatives and I will attend talks on you behalf, where we will seek to resolve the current situation with the best interest of you, our members, at heart. While the company may wish to portray differences of approach between Unite branches at BA for their own ends, let me reassure you that this is not the case and that we are speaking as one on behalf of all of our members within our community.
We will return to the Branch on the 5th October, where we will update you and let you guide us on matters. At the heart of our union, are the interests of you our members and through out any future talks this will remain my sole priority.
Yours in solidarity
Steve Turner
National Officer - Civil Air Transport
To: All British Airways Cabin Crew
BASSA members
Dear colleagues
UNITE - British Airways Cabin Crew Negotiations
With reference to the above, I felt that it would be appropriate to update you on where negotiations are between your union and British Airways.
Firstly, I know BASSA do an excellent job of communicating with you and have kept you accurately informed of progress on a regular basis. I also know you as a community are rightly extremely supportive of your representatives. This is a testimony to your cohesiveness as members and the organisation of the branch, which gives me, your National Secretary, a real sense of pride and support during negotiations.
I have been tasked by the Joint General Secretary, Tony Woodley to lead negotiations over changes within the Cabin Crew NSP. As always I am accompanied by your BASSA representatives. I am acutely aware of the significance of the impact of proposed changes on crew and have approached our discussions with a seriousness and integrity that befits the situation you face.
Sadly I cannot say the same is true is respect of British Airways. They have constantly misrepresented both my position and that of BASSA.
Therefore for reasons of clarity I felt it necessary to take the unusual step of updating you personally to avoid any misrepresentation of the true position of your union, Unite.
Both BASSA and I were available to convene talks immediately subsequent to the meeting of the General Secretaries and Willie Walsh. A series of dates were agreed upon as acceptable to both sides, this is a simple matter of record.
To suggest otherwise is regrettably a somewhat transparent attempt to distract attention away from the real issues that we face.
They will not succeed we will continue to remain clear and focused on exactly the reasons why these talks are being held and that is to secure the future of your hard won agreements for all cabin crew within British Airways.
In respect of the meeting held this Monday the only agreement on talks were that there were no preconditions. This remains the case.
The fact that BA have attempted to place the precondition on talks of watching a presentation and accepting a £140m (or 25% reduction) cost saving, is neither helpful nor will be accepted. Indeed, sadly, they have also attempted to place the same preconditions on the meeting of the ACC NSP, again this in not acceptable to our union.
In refusing to go ahead with the NSP the company have refused to resolve serious immediate issues that affect you the crew. These issues will not go away, and by not addressing them they simply add to the myriad of industrial relations problems that we face.
In respect of the future talks, let me place on record there has been no ’agreed principles’ through ACAS. For Bill Francis, who was neither present nor involved in any of the discussions on Monday to state otherwise is simply not true. Sadly this is something that I have come to expect from his communications as they have tended to reflect a much distorted version of reality.
Your BASSA representatives and I will attend talks on you behalf, where we will seek to resolve the current situation with the best interest of you, our members, at heart. While the company may wish to portray differences of approach between Unite branches at BA for their own ends, let me reassure you that this is not the case and that we are speaking as one on behalf of all of our members within our community.
We will return to the Branch on the 5th October, where we will update you and let you guide us on matters. At the heart of our union, are the interests of you our members and through out any future talks this will remain my sole priority.
Yours in solidarity
Steve Turner
National Officer - Civil Air Transport
Hardly surprising to see this drivel from Steve Turner:
All the above examples are amazingly accurate descriptions of BASSA behaviour, except for the first quote - BASSA are all hyperbole and bugger all substance when it comes to 'communicating'! A union in such complete denial can only meet an untidy, miserable end.
Firstly, I know BASSA do an excellent job of communicating with you
They have constantly misrepresented both my position and that of BASSA.
To suggest otherwise is regrettably a somewhat transparent attempt to distract attention away from the real issues that we face.
Sadly this is something that I have come to expect from his communications as they have tended to reflect a much distorted version of reality.
Last edited by deeceethree; 27th Sep 2009 at 11:34.
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And the latest:
Looks like Unite think they are running BA now!
Unite fears BA suffering an identity crisis over
moves to introduce low-cost carrier charges
Unite, the UK’s largest aviation union
and the largest union representing
workers at British Airways, is today
(Saturday) accusing BA's management
of suffering an identity crisis. It comes
as the airline's management
announces that it will charge for seat
reservations, a move Unite believes
tarnishes the carrier's image further
and is another misguided attempt to
mimic the low-cost airlines.
Unite warns hefty charges - around £60 to book an
aisle or window seat - for passengers already paying
premium prices wishing to select seats on-line or sit
together as families will drive customers away from BA.
Steve Turner, Unite national officer for civil avi-
ation, described the announcement as “complete
madness from a management team rapidly losing its
way and undermining the proud standing of British
Airways as the UK’s national flag carrier”.
“Unite is becoming increasingly frustrated with BA
and its attempts to address change in the industry
by adopting the practices of low cost carriers.
Clearly, the management are suffering an identity
crisis. But BA’s market is not low cost, it will never
successfully compete in the low cost market and it
should not aspire to be a low-cost operator.
"BA's management is failing to recognise the extent of
anger felt by customers already annoyed by additional
charges made by low cost carriers. Customers
‘upgrading' to BA do not expect to see add-on
charges for seat allocation, baggage check in, meals
and drinks.
"This is a mistake and a continuation of a misguided
trend in BA that is undermining the airline's standing
both at home and globally. Desperate measures, practices
and tactics adopted by BA’s senior management team
and board are taking our airline in the wrong direction.
Even the Prime Minister opted to use another carrier to
fly to the G20 in the US, and not British Airways, the UK’s
national carrier and the only one with the union jack on
its tail."
Unite is becoming increasingly frustrated with
the slow pace of dialogue with, and the erratic
strategy adopted by, BA's management over
measures to cut costs during the economic
downturn. Unite has repeatedly warned that
continued attacks on employee terms and the
business itself, coupled with unilateral changes
to working practices, is devastating morale
and will bring further instability to the airline
as it struggles to meet the challenges of the
recession.
Despite these frustrations, Unite is continuing to
work to find a mutually acceptable way forward in
on-going negotiations with the company.
ENDS
moves to introduce low-cost carrier charges
Unite, the UK’s largest aviation union
and the largest union representing
workers at British Airways, is today
(Saturday) accusing BA's management
of suffering an identity crisis. It comes
as the airline's management
announces that it will charge for seat
reservations, a move Unite believes
tarnishes the carrier's image further
and is another misguided attempt to
mimic the low-cost airlines.
Unite warns hefty charges - around £60 to book an
aisle or window seat - for passengers already paying
premium prices wishing to select seats on-line or sit
together as families will drive customers away from BA.
Steve Turner, Unite national officer for civil avi-
ation, described the announcement as “complete
madness from a management team rapidly losing its
way and undermining the proud standing of British
Airways as the UK’s national flag carrier”.
“Unite is becoming increasingly frustrated with BA
and its attempts to address change in the industry
by adopting the practices of low cost carriers.
Clearly, the management are suffering an identity
crisis. But BA’s market is not low cost, it will never
successfully compete in the low cost market and it
should not aspire to be a low-cost operator.
"BA's management is failing to recognise the extent of
anger felt by customers already annoyed by additional
charges made by low cost carriers. Customers
‘upgrading' to BA do not expect to see add-on
charges for seat allocation, baggage check in, meals
and drinks.
"This is a mistake and a continuation of a misguided
trend in BA that is undermining the airline's standing
both at home and globally. Desperate measures, practices
and tactics adopted by BA’s senior management team
and board are taking our airline in the wrong direction.
Even the Prime Minister opted to use another carrier to
fly to the G20 in the US, and not British Airways, the UK’s
national carrier and the only one with the union jack on
its tail."
Unite is becoming increasingly frustrated with
the slow pace of dialogue with, and the erratic
strategy adopted by, BA's management over
measures to cut costs during the economic
downturn. Unite has repeatedly warned that
continued attacks on employee terms and the
business itself, coupled with unilateral changes
to working practices, is devastating morale
and will bring further instability to the airline
as it struggles to meet the challenges of the
recession.
Despite these frustrations, Unite is continuing to
work to find a mutually acceptable way forward in
on-going negotiations with the company.
ENDS
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I hate BA management (along with most coal face employees) but give me BA management over the muppets that are BASSA and Unite. This whole debacle goes beyond BASSA v BA and extends more into future revenue for UNITE who are already deeply in the red.
Read between the lines, because that is where exactly BA Cabin Crew are, unfortunately most can't see it
Read between the lines, because that is where exactly BA Cabin Crew are, unfortunately most can't see it