British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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As has been said in another place - allegedly
I'm sure that while it applies to some, it doesn't to many.
It's easy [for cabin crew] to hate pilots, it touches a collective raw nerve about being inadequate and inferior. At the moment BASSA hate everyone; BA, BALPA and even Unite. They're a cornered wild animal.
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Litebulbs
And here is where many of us and our union are just being childish.
I obtained a copy of and read the pilots' agreement thoroughly. The figures may be slightly inaccurate as the cuts were made across basic pay and allowances but generally amounted to a pay cut of about 4.4%. They took a 20% cut in part of their allowances and I reckon that probably equates to 10%-15% cut in total allowances - depending on the type of work rostered. The share options are optional and dependent on some quite substantial profits in the coming years. Share options and employee interest in their company are widely encouraged in good business models such as John Lewis.
The pilots also agreed to work harder with increases in yearly flying hours.
So, BASSA are winding us all up and comparing BA's wishlist (which genuine negotiation would have diluted) to the best bits of the pilots deal. It achieves nothing and we'll just end up with imposition. I'm sick of them!
I cannot believe that WW has no trick up his sleeve in dealing with our militant members. I predict another pasting and I'll be far worse off because of it.
Flaps,
What, a 3% pay cut, for shares in 3 years time? I'm sure they would vote yes for that.
What, a 3% pay cut, for shares in 3 years time? I'm sure they would vote yes for that.
I obtained a copy of and read the pilots' agreement thoroughly. The figures may be slightly inaccurate as the cuts were made across basic pay and allowances but generally amounted to a pay cut of about 4.4%. They took a 20% cut in part of their allowances and I reckon that probably equates to 10%-15% cut in total allowances - depending on the type of work rostered. The share options are optional and dependent on some quite substantial profits in the coming years. Share options and employee interest in their company are widely encouraged in good business models such as John Lewis.
The pilots also agreed to work harder with increases in yearly flying hours.
So, BASSA are winding us all up and comparing BA's wishlist (which genuine negotiation would have diluted) to the best bits of the pilots deal. It achieves nothing and we'll just end up with imposition. I'm sick of them!
I cannot believe that WW has no trick up his sleeve in dealing with our militant members. I predict another pasting and I'll be far worse off because of it.
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Nutjob
You do yourself and your fellow crew great credit with your rational outlook and realistic view of the world.
My wife is CC and so this will affect my family significantly.
She is fed up with BASSA being run by 1970s militants who know only how to shout and rant when they should be working to get a reasonable deal for their members.
Next election, get yourself in there Nutjob and do your mates a favour!
You do yourself and your fellow crew great credit with your rational outlook and realistic view of the world.
My wife is CC and so this will affect my family significantly.
She is fed up with BASSA being run by 1970s militants who know only how to shout and rant when they should be working to get a reasonable deal for their members.
Next election, get yourself in there Nutjob and do your mates a favour!
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Ok, please for the last time, lets put the shares deal to bed.
Pilots do not get their paycut back in shares in 5 years time.
The pay cut (basic and allowances) will amount to about £5000p.a. average per pilot. Over 5 years thats £25,000. (Big ouch
)
IF we made a 6% operating margin in 5 years time (pretty unlikely) then a Captain would be awarded 807 shares. At £1.25 thats £1008 worth.
A 10% operating margin would give the max of 1346 shares (£1680).
Now here's the big thing that BASSA won't have told you:
It's in return for a no industrial action clause and extra "management duties/structure" of which are yet to be decided on.
The other big thing is that in recognition of a first officers reduced responsibilities compared to a captain his max entitlement is lower at 1015 shares.
So allowing for the reduced responsibilities of CSD's, then Pursers, then main crew you'd probably be down to a couple of hundred shares each.
Hardly worth your extra "management" duties and responsibilities really.
Please see your nearest BASSA rep for the full BALPA deal and I'm sure they'll be happy to explain it all.
Now if this doesn't get deleted can we drop the share deal bit please.
Pilots do not get their paycut back in shares in 5 years time.
The pay cut (basic and allowances) will amount to about £5000p.a. average per pilot. Over 5 years thats £25,000. (Big ouch
)IF we made a 6% operating margin in 5 years time (pretty unlikely) then a Captain would be awarded 807 shares. At £1.25 thats £1008 worth.
A 10% operating margin would give the max of 1346 shares (£1680).
Now here's the big thing that BASSA won't have told you:
It's in return for a no industrial action clause and extra "management duties/structure" of which are yet to be decided on.
The other big thing is that in recognition of a first officers reduced responsibilities compared to a captain his max entitlement is lower at 1015 shares.
So allowing for the reduced responsibilities of CSD's, then Pursers, then main crew you'd probably be down to a couple of hundred shares each.
Hardly worth your extra "management" duties and responsibilities really.
Please see your nearest BASSA rep for the full BALPA deal and I'm sure they'll be happy to explain it all.
Now if this doesn't get deleted can we drop the share deal bit please.
Last edited by plodding along; 5th Jul 2009 at 13:03.
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flapsforty
Not to mention the command structure on board an aircraft having anything to do with the level of salary paid. Captain in charge, first officer second in charge, pursar etc etc.
I have the same debate going on in my airline with regards to pilot pay vs CC pay. I think it is relevant here if BASSA are using pilot pay as a benchmark so to speak. You can't compare the jobs and therefore have CSD's/Pursars being paid more than the F/O. Rank speaking it's not the CSD's cabin its the Captains then F/O's. Lets get some perspective on rank.
Good luck,
L Met
Summarizing what I have come across over the past 10 years on PPRuNe, here are the reasons for the difference in pay:
Pilots train for longer than cabin crew
Pilot training is more expensive than cabin crew training
The skill/talent set required to become a pilot is less widely found in the general population than the skill/talent set needed to become a flight attendant
Piloting is a male dominated job, FA-ing is a female dominated job. Male jobs get paid better than female jobs. UK Gender pay gap currently at 20%.
Pilots train for longer than cabin crew
Pilot training is more expensive than cabin crew training
The skill/talent set required to become a pilot is less widely found in the general population than the skill/talent set needed to become a flight attendant
Piloting is a male dominated job, FA-ing is a female dominated job. Male jobs get paid better than female jobs. UK Gender pay gap currently at 20%.
I have the same debate going on in my airline with regards to pilot pay vs CC pay. I think it is relevant here if BASSA are using pilot pay as a benchmark so to speak. You can't compare the jobs and therefore have CSD's/Pursars being paid more than the F/O. Rank speaking it's not the CSD's cabin its the Captains then F/O's. Lets get some perspective on rank.
Good luck,
L Met
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londonmet, to me the chain of command, hierarchy, respective rank etc is such an instinctive and integral part of airline life that I didn´t think to include it.
You are of course correct about its relevance.
PS: It´s called a pursEr, not pursAr.
You are of course correct about its relevance.
PS: It´s called a pursEr, not pursAr.
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Flapsforty,
Thank you for your reply. You'll be amazed how many CC think they should get the same ££ to work off as I do. I simply explain that each of our days off are equally as valuable (non-financially). However, financially speaking a day off working payment is directly linked to ones salary. Unfortunately the arguement doesn't end there. Anyway, back to this thread subject. I hope BA CC pull their heads out of their rear ends and wake up and smell the coffee for the good of the airline and the greater good of the aviation industry.
L Met
Thank you for your reply. You'll be amazed how many CC think they should get the same ££ to work off as I do. I simply explain that each of our days off are equally as valuable (non-financially). However, financially speaking a day off working payment is directly linked to ones salary. Unfortunately the arguement doesn't end there. Anyway, back to this thread subject. I hope BA CC pull their heads out of their rear ends and wake up and smell the coffee for the good of the airline and the greater good of the aviation industry.
L Met
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I think both sides are as bad as each other to be honest. BASSA and BA. BA started this off with a sheet of A4 left on a photocopier (allegedly) and all hell breaks out.
PR side of things with BA and WW with working for free becomes a fast growing joke, and as BA trumpets how xyz number are working for free, EF cabin crew are offered overtime!
The goal posts keep moving and to be honest not sure what to think as I`m not overly keen on BASSA`s idea for EF doing some WW flights. Then again BA`s solutions is slightly more palatable but the flexible roster and 9 days off not great. Hopefully a combination of the 2 will come about with ACAS. The problem is different contracts.. bidders will loose a day off but 6 and 3 work pattern don`t. Most new contract types are bidders.
BA hasn`t given any figures and so how do you make any decision is impossible.
I`m not sure a strike will help anything to be honest, and is it not possible to be taken back on after striking on the new contract type?
One thing, and you do have to laugh, BA has managed to unite the 2 cabin crew unions at last and there is very little bitterness between the two.
I`m not sure why so many cabin crew are keen on the pilots deal. Shares? erm they go up and they go down, and sometimes you can loose all of them. Like my 500 free Bradford Bingley ones. Worthless.
The bigger issue is the pension with it being billions in deficit; wonder if those shares are sweetners just incase the final salary pension is closed to those already in it?
BASSA is hard faced and bullish and has had to be at times. Whether they are right or wrong time will tell. Of course a few pilots and possibly others in the company do know how to pull the strings on cabin crew and BASSA and sometimes that doesn`t help; although you do get a reaction and possibly some kick from it.
PR side of things with BA and WW with working for free becomes a fast growing joke, and as BA trumpets how xyz number are working for free, EF cabin crew are offered overtime!
The goal posts keep moving and to be honest not sure what to think as I`m not overly keen on BASSA`s idea for EF doing some WW flights. Then again BA`s solutions is slightly more palatable but the flexible roster and 9 days off not great. Hopefully a combination of the 2 will come about with ACAS. The problem is different contracts.. bidders will loose a day off but 6 and 3 work pattern don`t. Most new contract types are bidders.
BA hasn`t given any figures and so how do you make any decision is impossible.
I`m not sure a strike will help anything to be honest, and is it not possible to be taken back on after striking on the new contract type?
One thing, and you do have to laugh, BA has managed to unite the 2 cabin crew unions at last and there is very little bitterness between the two.
I`m not sure why so many cabin crew are keen on the pilots deal. Shares? erm they go up and they go down, and sometimes you can loose all of them. Like my 500 free Bradford Bingley ones. Worthless.
The bigger issue is the pension with it being billions in deficit; wonder if those shares are sweetners just incase the final salary pension is closed to those already in it?
BASSA is hard faced and bullish and has had to be at times. Whether they are right or wrong time will tell. Of course a few pilots and possibly others in the company do know how to pull the strings on cabin crew and BASSA and sometimes that doesn`t help; although you do get a reaction and possibly some kick from it.
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EF cabin crew are offered overtime!
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Just when i thought that the idiocy of these people must have limits they show it doesn't.
Note to BASSA. HKG was 3 747s its now 2 747s and a 777, thats a cut. And whichever route decisions BA make they'll still be significantly less aircraft in the fleet this winter than last. (8 747s, 8 757s, couple of 767s offset by 2 new 318s and 4 777s). Some cursory attempt at research may bear dividends.
Note to BASSA. HKG was 3 747s its now 2 747s and a 777, thats a cut. And whichever route decisions BA make they'll still be significantly less aircraft in the fleet this winter than last. (8 747s, 8 757s, couple of 767s offset by 2 new 318s and 4 777s). Some cursory attempt at research may bear dividends.
GLOBAL RECESSION OR (MR WALSHS) GLOBAL EXPANSION?
Jul 5th, 2009 by admin
You will not have missed all the media and press furore surrounding awful times that the aviation industry is experiencing. This sentiment is being led mainly by our own CEO, Willy Walsh, who seems to be doing his level best to talk our airline out of existence as soon as possible.
He has gone on record many times over the last few weeks, reporting the dire state that BA is in, with profits plummeting, empty aircraft and the need for staff to accept ever harsher cuts.
He even went as far as to say that the industry wont recover until 2017 when every other analyst has stated that the recession has already bottomed out and the signs of a slow recovery are beginning to show.
To add weight to this mood of doom and gloom, Mr. Broughton, our chairman, was recently interviewed by Sky News and continued with the line that we are experiencing extremely difficult trading conditions and any recovery is likely to take longer than initially envisaged." However, on ESS today it was also reported that the winter schedule is to actually also be increased as a response to customer demand - we will increase the number of flights from Heathrow to Warsaw and Istanbul from two to three flights a day.
On Worldwide we have recently be told that a new route to Las Vegas is starting in a few months, daily! This is as well as the HKG capacity being increased by adding an additional 777. BA will also increase the number of flights from Heathrow to Rome from five to six a day.
Mr. Walsh said this is the worst trading climate that BA has ever experienced, worse than 911 or the Gulf War. Yet we are still going ahead with the new route to JFK from City Airport?
Only last week, extra flights were also announced, which included additional services from Gatwick to Bermuda (from five to six a week), Barbados (from nine to ten a week) and St Lucia and Port of Spain (from three to five a week), plus flights from Heathrow to Barcelona increasing from five to seven a day and Prague from three to four a day.
Its difficult to judge which of his approaches is the more truthful but what is obvious is that he has got it woefully wrong in talking down our airline to anyone who would listen, solely to create the right atmosphere to push through draconian cuts upon his own staff.
As a CEO he appears oblivious and has seemingly scant regard to the disastrous impact that his statements have had on our advance bookings, as people lose confidence in British Airways. Never mind the fact that the disastrous fuel price fixing, resulting heavy fines and poorly judged fuel price hedging all happened on his watch.
We at the bottom are now being asked to pick up the tab for the mistakes of those at the top.
These errors of judgment alone would make the current round of employees cost cuts unnecessary.
If he were a football manager, he would have been sacked long ago. Its akin to taking Manchester United into non-league football and then attempting to blame the pitch, weather, groundsman, team coach driver, tea ladies and/or the fans.
Read the tabloid sports pages Mr. Walsh and see where the blame normally resides when a team is not doing well...
...The Manager.
Jul 5th, 2009 by admin
You will not have missed all the media and press furore surrounding awful times that the aviation industry is experiencing. This sentiment is being led mainly by our own CEO, Willy Walsh, who seems to be doing his level best to talk our airline out of existence as soon as possible.
He has gone on record many times over the last few weeks, reporting the dire state that BA is in, with profits plummeting, empty aircraft and the need for staff to accept ever harsher cuts.
He even went as far as to say that the industry wont recover until 2017 when every other analyst has stated that the recession has already bottomed out and the signs of a slow recovery are beginning to show.
To add weight to this mood of doom and gloom, Mr. Broughton, our chairman, was recently interviewed by Sky News and continued with the line that we are experiencing extremely difficult trading conditions and any recovery is likely to take longer than initially envisaged." However, on ESS today it was also reported that the winter schedule is to actually also be increased as a response to customer demand - we will increase the number of flights from Heathrow to Warsaw and Istanbul from two to three flights a day.
On Worldwide we have recently be told that a new route to Las Vegas is starting in a few months, daily! This is as well as the HKG capacity being increased by adding an additional 777. BA will also increase the number of flights from Heathrow to Rome from five to six a day.
Mr. Walsh said this is the worst trading climate that BA has ever experienced, worse than 911 or the Gulf War. Yet we are still going ahead with the new route to JFK from City Airport?
Only last week, extra flights were also announced, which included additional services from Gatwick to Bermuda (from five to six a week), Barbados (from nine to ten a week) and St Lucia and Port of Spain (from three to five a week), plus flights from Heathrow to Barcelona increasing from five to seven a day and Prague from three to four a day.
Its difficult to judge which of his approaches is the more truthful but what is obvious is that he has got it woefully wrong in talking down our airline to anyone who would listen, solely to create the right atmosphere to push through draconian cuts upon his own staff.
As a CEO he appears oblivious and has seemingly scant regard to the disastrous impact that his statements have had on our advance bookings, as people lose confidence in British Airways. Never mind the fact that the disastrous fuel price fixing, resulting heavy fines and poorly judged fuel price hedging all happened on his watch.
We at the bottom are now being asked to pick up the tab for the mistakes of those at the top.
These errors of judgment alone would make the current round of employees cost cuts unnecessary.
If he were a football manager, he would have been sacked long ago. Its akin to taking Manchester United into non-league football and then attempting to blame the pitch, weather, groundsman, team coach driver, tea ladies and/or the fans.
Read the tabloid sports pages Mr. Walsh and see where the blame normally resides when a team is not doing well...
...The Manager.
Last edited by Hotel Mode; 5th Jul 2009 at 21:30.
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That post is highly selective in its information, ignoring the winter cuts at LGW (BCN removed completely which would account for the additional LHR frequencies) and capacity reduction on, for example, JFK which is seeing many more 777s than 747s (it used to be exclusively 747s).
It also doesn't take into account "dynamic revenue management" which is desperately trying to maintain load factor at the expense of yield (which has fallen off a cliff), meaning that status passengers spending £350 on a Y seat LHR-JFK-LHR end up in Club for one sector and Traveller Plus for the other.
Just like me last week.
It also doesn't take into account "dynamic revenue management" which is desperately trying to maintain load factor at the expense of yield (which has fallen off a cliff), meaning that status passengers spending £350 on a Y seat LHR-JFK-LHR end up in Club for one sector and Traveller Plus for the other.
Just like me last week.
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Not to mention a number of HKG flights being tactically cancelled, NRT down to one a day etc etc. It's times like this I wish BA would put out some useful counter information.
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when every other analyst has stated that the recession has already bottomed out and the signs of a slow recovery are beginning to show.
every other
) agree that this recession will be W shaped. They think we are nearing the bottom of the first trough, however after a brief period of stability (very little recovery as I understand!) the second trough will be more severe and sustained. I suggest that Bassa (or their members if bassa is not prepared to do it) stop reading the tabloids and move on to better quality publications
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On this issue of pay between pilots and cabin crew.
I understand that there are some cabin crew who do receive better pay than some pilots.
However, the situation is that a senior very senior cabin crew member may be paid more than a very junior first officer. A senior cabin crew member towards the end of their service on their top increment versus a junior first officer, starting their career and with a far higher future earning potential than any cabin crew will and would ever have.
I understand that there are some cabin crew who do receive better pay than some pilots.
However, the situation is that a senior very senior cabin crew member may be paid more than a very junior first officer. A senior cabin crew member towards the end of their service on their top increment versus a junior first officer, starting their career and with a far higher future earning potential than any cabin crew will and would ever have.
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Forgive me for butting in. I'm not CC but I am a BA employee of 35 years. Of course not being CC doesn't seem to stop anyone else from piling in with their views on the subject..so here goes. How I see things...
The comany is screwed. It wasn't BASSA's fault but, none the less, that is where it finds itself.
I can't blame your union for trying to protect your T&Cs but , come on, this is way overdue.
I have never in my 35 years felt as insecure as I do now and that has nothing to do with the 'company ' or WW's approach . The world has changed!
My department have been engaging in the BRS to try and lower our costs to preserve jobs.
I can't see how the CC can use any comparison with the pilots just because they 'work' in the same 'space'. Why the constant comparison?. They should be compared with other staff groups within the airline.
From what I know it would appear that the pilots used a mature approach to their negotiations with the company. This approach is sadly lacking with BASSA!
Senior CC have long enjoyed a 'ringfencing' of their terms and conditions. Way above the market rate. T & Cs that every other dept in BA has seen adjusted over the last number of years.
Some BA groundstaff are working their t£ts off at present due to staff reductions.
I would expect BASSA (busted flush) to be sidelined as BA talk to Unite national officials with ACAS present.
But then again, what do I know, I'm just one of the 27000 staff who aren't CC/FD.
Could have gone on but I'm up for work in the morning and the wine bottle's empty!! (Non crew purchase)
The comany is screwed. It wasn't BASSA's fault but, none the less, that is where it finds itself.
I can't blame your union for trying to protect your T&Cs but , come on, this is way overdue.
I have never in my 35 years felt as insecure as I do now and that has nothing to do with the 'company ' or WW's approach . The world has changed!
My department have been engaging in the BRS to try and lower our costs to preserve jobs.
I can't see how the CC can use any comparison with the pilots just because they 'work' in the same 'space'. Why the constant comparison?. They should be compared with other staff groups within the airline.
From what I know it would appear that the pilots used a mature approach to their negotiations with the company. This approach is sadly lacking with BASSA!
Senior CC have long enjoyed a 'ringfencing' of their terms and conditions. Way above the market rate. T & Cs that every other dept in BA has seen adjusted over the last number of years.
Some BA groundstaff are working their t£ts off at present due to staff reductions.
I would expect BASSA (busted flush) to be sidelined as BA talk to Unite national officials with ACAS present.
But then again, what do I know, I'm just one of the 27000 staff who aren't CC/FD.
Could have gone on but I'm up for work in the morning and the wine bottle's empty!! (Non crew purchase)
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The never ending Pilots verses CC pay thread!
Wrong place for it. BASSA will ALWAYS play the comparison as it takes the heat off of their innate ability to mess up negotiations by whinging that CC deserve exactly what the Pilots get.
There are threads all over the internet covering it.
More to the point isn't today 'The big one' at Kempton Park.
It will be amazing to see, what with Henley, Wimbledon and Gay Pride, how many the 'amazing' turnout will be and, of course, they will vote for no confidence in WW and the threat of IA to get their 'alternate cost savings' through.
Wrong place for it. BASSA will ALWAYS play the comparison as it takes the heat off of their innate ability to mess up negotiations by whinging that CC deserve exactly what the Pilots get.
There are threads all over the internet covering it.
More to the point isn't today 'The big one' at Kempton Park.
It will be amazing to see, what with Henley, Wimbledon and Gay Pride, how many the 'amazing' turnout will be and, of course, they will vote for no confidence in WW and the threat of IA to get their 'alternate cost savings' through.
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Having just read through BASSA's latest war info memo it seems to be a little thin on the ground where 'facts' are concerned.
A few of the AOC holders who have already been bitten by the downturn might disagree that WW is the devil incarnate in this one and that BA is 'merely' talking down the industry:
Many are smaller carriers however many aren't and I would be fairly certain that the employers and employees are certainly feeling the pain of Willy Walshs' made up down turn at the moment.
Erm, every other analyst? There seems to be discord amongst the city analysts as to whether we are in a 'U' recession where we bump along the bottom for a bit before climbing out of the other side, a 'W' recession (seems to be the favourite at the moment) where we see a small pick up but then worsens before bettering. Or, the worst scenario as Japan has seen for the last 10 years, an 'L' recession where confidence and stock market levels never recover or recover of an extremely protracted period.
See the list above. Companies that fail to innovate, stagnate and die. The 'rejig' of the route structures and the implementation of new routes and the culling of non profitable routes is exactly what the company has to and must do. The 'overall' restructure will result in a capacity cut. Pure and simple. All the company is doing is moving profitable capacity towards profitable routes. Add to that the fuel usage, capacity and cost per passenger mile of different aircraft types and you can assess correctly the company plan. If they weren't innovating then I would be worried. For example Virgin doesn't have the luxury of a large network and, after his PR stunt of a profit was unearthed as the scam it was, VA are hurting big time.
OK lets pull the world of the international airline down to the level of the Sun reading masses shall we? Surely the BASSA membership deserve a far better analogy than that? Especially as the one above makes no sense whatsoever. Ironically the players, groundsmen, team coach or the tea ladies would have no wages or job of the fans don't have the money to come through the gate or buy the tickets no matter how good the team.
BASSA, give your membership HARD facts not made up innuendo, don't treat them as the drones you have been treating them for the past 20 years. They, the membership, deserve better.
You will not have missed all the media and press furore surrounding awful times that the aviation industry is experiencing. This sentiment is being led mainly by our own CEO, Willy Walsh, who seems to be doing his level best to talk our airline out of existence as soon as possible.
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May 13 Far Eastern AT Suspended all flights
May 23 Club Air Suspended all flights
May 23 Pacific Airlines Became Jetstar Pacific
May 30 Silver Jet Suspended all flights
May 31 Champion Air Suspended all flights
Jun 10 MagniCharters Suspended all flights
Jun 11 Aero Condor Suspended all flights
Jun 30 AM Suspended all flights
Jul 16 Flyyeti Suspended all flights
Jul 21 Ankair Suspended all flights
Jul 21 One-two-go Suspended all flights
Jul 23 Aero California Suspended all flights
Jul 25 LAB Suspended all flights
Jul 29 Riau Airlines Suspended all flights
Aug 01 Community Airlines Suspended all flights
Aug 05 Avolar Suspended all flights
Aug 05 Novaair Suspended all flights
Aug 12 Gemini Air Cargo Suspended all flights
Aug 23 Airlines Tonga Suspended all flights
Aug 28 Zoom Airlines Suspended all flights
Aug 29 Deccan Merged into Kingfisher
Sep 08 Futura Suspended all flights
Sep 08 Futura gael Suspended all flights
Sep 11 Air Bee Suspended all flights
Sep 12 XL Airways UK Suspended all flights
Sep 15 AeBAl Suspended all flights
Sep 22 AAAbaBna Suspended all flights
Sep 25 Lat Charter Became Smartlynx
Sep 30 Asian Spirit Became Zest Air
Sep 30 Carib Aviation Suspended all flights
Oct 01 Kyokushin Air Suspended all flights
Oct 03 Aero Tropics Suspended all flights
Oct 05 Galaxy Airlines Suspended all flights
Oct 09 Lagunair Suspended all flights
Oct 13 CargoItalia Suspended all flights
Oct 17 Omskavi Airlines Suspended all flights
Oct 17 Nhtepabna Suspended all flights
Oct 17 Tesis Suspended all flights
Oct 17 VBG Suspended all flights
Oct 17 Lte Suspended all flights
Oct 18 Hansung Airlines Suspended all flights
Oct 20 Flysur Suspended all flights
Oct 21 Aladia Suspended all flights
Oct 29 Sterling Denmark Suspended all flights
Nov 01 Domodevdovo Suspended all flights
Nov 01 Kras Air Suspended all flights
Nov 07 Alma de Mexico Suspended all flights
Nov 18 Inter Airlines Suspended all flights
Dec 01 Siem Reap Airlines Suspended all flights
Dec 01 European Suspending all flights
Dec 01 Primaris Airlines Suspended all flights
Dec 03 Flightline Suspended all flights
Dec 06 OKAIR Suspended all flights
Dec 11 Yeongnam Air Suspended all flights
Dec 14 Air Tanzania Suspended all flights
Dec 17 Air Europe Suspended all flights
2009
Date Airline Info
Jan 04 Ted Merged into United Airlines
Jan 09 Rak Airways Suspended all flights
Jan 10 Zambian Suspended all flights
Jan 15 Air Taboma Suspended all flights
Jan 17 FlyIAL Suspended all flights
Jan 29 Macair Suspended all flights
Mar 13 Sky Airworld Suspended all flights
Mar 15 East Star Suspended all flights
Mar 26 Central Wings Suspended all flights
Mar 31 Blue Wings Suspended all flights
Apr 01 Kayala Suspended all flights
Apr 04 L'Avion Merged into Open Skies
Apr 24 Air Senegal International Suspended all flights
Apr 27 Air Fiji Suspended all flights
May 01 First Choice Became Thomson Airways
May 01 Thomson Fly Became Thomson Airways
Jul 01 Cargo B Suspended all flights
Virgin Nigeria Name change expected
Atlas Blue Royal Air Maroc may discontinue the brand
VLM To be merged with Cityjet in January 2010
Clickair To be merged with Vueling in mid Jul 2009
2008
Date Airline Info
Jan 01 Alpieagles Suspended all flights
Jan 06 Aero Airlines Suspended all flights
Jan 08 BritishJet Suspended all flights
Jan 23 Coast Air Suspended all flights
Jan 30 City Star Suspended all flights
Feb 29 Boston Maine Suspended all flights
Mar 01 Focus Air Suspended all flights
Mar 08 Bigsky Suspended all flights
Mar 13 Girjet Suspended all flights
Mar 18 Adamair Suspended all flights
Mar 25 ASA Suspended all flights
Mar 29 GB Airways Merged into Easyjet
Mar 30 Freedom Air Suspended all flights
Mar 30 Airclass Airways Suspended all flights
Mar 31 Aloha Suspended all flights
Mar 31 JAA Merged into JAL
Apr 02 ATA Suspended all flights
Apr 04 Skybus Suspended all flights
Apr 05 FlyNordic Merged into Norwegian
Apr 05 Skyway Airlines Suspended all flights
Apr 07 Swazi Express Suspended all flights
Apr 09 Oasis HKG Suspended all flights
Apr 25 Ocean Airlines Suspended all flights
Apr 27 EOS Suspended all flights
Apr 29 Nationwide Suspended all flights
May 03 Mihin Lanka Suspended all flights
May 08 Angkor Suspended all flights
May 08 EuroManx Suspended all flights
May 09 My Travel Denmark Became Thomas Cook Scandinavia
May 13 Far Eastern AT Suspended all flights
May 23 Club Air Suspended all flights
May 23 Pacific Airlines Became Jetstar Pacific
May 30 Silver Jet Suspended all flights
May 31 Champion Air Suspended all flights
Jun 10 MagniCharters Suspended all flights
Jun 11 Aero Condor Suspended all flights
Jun 30 AM Suspended all flights
Jul 16 Flyyeti Suspended all flights
Jul 21 Ankair Suspended all flights
Jul 21 One-two-go Suspended all flights
Jul 23 Aero California Suspended all flights
Jul 25 LAB Suspended all flights
Jul 29 Riau Airlines Suspended all flights
Aug 01 Community Airlines Suspended all flights
Aug 05 Avolar Suspended all flights
Aug 05 Novaair Suspended all flights
Aug 12 Gemini Air Cargo Suspended all flights
Aug 23 Airlines Tonga Suspended all flights
Aug 28 Zoom Airlines Suspended all flights
Aug 29 Deccan Merged into Kingfisher
Sep 08 Futura Suspended all flights
Sep 08 Futura gael Suspended all flights
Sep 11 Air Bee Suspended all flights
Sep 12 XL Airways UK Suspended all flights
Sep 15 AeBAl Suspended all flights
Sep 22 AAAbaBna Suspended all flights
Sep 25 Lat Charter Became Smartlynx
Sep 30 Asian Spirit Became Zest Air
Sep 30 Carib Aviation Suspended all flights
Oct 01 Kyokushin Air Suspended all flights
Oct 03 Aero Tropics Suspended all flights
Oct 05 Galaxy Airlines Suspended all flights
Oct 09 Lagunair Suspended all flights
Oct 13 CargoItalia Suspended all flights
Oct 17 Omskavi Airlines Suspended all flights
Oct 17 Nhtepabna Suspended all flights
Oct 17 Tesis Suspended all flights
Oct 17 VBG Suspended all flights
Oct 17 Lte Suspended all flights
Oct 18 Hansung Airlines Suspended all flights
Oct 20 Flysur Suspended all flights
Oct 21 Aladia Suspended all flights
Oct 29 Sterling Denmark Suspended all flights
Nov 01 Domodevdovo Suspended all flights
Nov 01 Kras Air Suspended all flights
Nov 07 Alma de Mexico Suspended all flights
Nov 18 Inter Airlines Suspended all flights
Dec 01 Siem Reap Airlines Suspended all flights
Dec 01 European Suspending all flights
Dec 01 Primaris Airlines Suspended all flights
Dec 03 Flightline Suspended all flights
Dec 06 OKAIR Suspended all flights
Dec 11 Yeongnam Air Suspended all flights
Dec 14 Air Tanzania Suspended all flights
Dec 17 Air Europe Suspended all flights
He even went as far as to say that the industry wont recover until 2017 when every other analyst has stated that the recession has already bottomed out and the signs of a slow recovery are beginning to show.
Its difficult to judge which of his approaches is the more truthful but what is obvious is that he has got it woefully wrong in talking down our airline to anyone who would listen, solely to create the right atmosphere to push through draconian cuts upon his own staff.
If he were a football manager, he would have been sacked long ago. Its akin to taking Manchester United into non-league football and then attempting to blame the pitch, weather, groundsman, team coach driver, tea ladies and/or the fans.
Read the tabloid sports pages Mr. Walsh and see where the blame normally resides when a team is not doing well...
Read the tabloid sports pages Mr. Walsh and see where the blame normally resides when a team is not doing well...
BASSA, give your membership HARD facts not made up innuendo, don't treat them as the drones you have been treating them for the past 20 years. They, the membership, deserve better.
Last edited by wobble2plank; 6th Jul 2009 at 09:02.